The Law: Sentences too light.

[Fox♠]

Yay, let's send all the bad people to Australia so we can suffer!!!!!

In fairness, we used Aus as a prison island for a long time and you guys turned out pretty ok, ironic really because America turned out a mess and that was supposed to be a new land.

 

[Guillermo]

In fairness, we used Aus as a prison island for a long time and you guys turned out pretty ok, ironic really because America turned out a mess and that was supposed to be a new land.

Yeah, I know where you're coming from, Matt, but I don't see how sending people to Australia will change their attitude, or how it's even a punishment. I mean, Australia sucks, but I can see a lot of people breaking the law for a permanent residence over here.

ily matt <3

 

[sumeet109]

Instead of letting murderers and rapists rot in jail, we should work them to death or near death in labour camps.

 

[Rich Boy Rob]

Instead of letting murderers and rapists rot in jail, we should work them to death or near death in labour camps.

I take it you have no concept of Human Rights or the abolition of slavery. I mean working someone to death for no money with no choice is the definition of guess what? Slavery. In fact it's worse than that, a slave can be treated with reasonable dignity in some cases. With what you're suggesting you are just killing them for profit.

But anyway I agree with the current sentences for crimes (in England at least). But 60 days for rape of a child? That's madness.

 

[sumeet109]

I take it you have no concept of Human Rights or the abolition of slavery.

Yes I do.

I mean working someone to death for no money with no choice is the definition of guess what? Slavery.

You're given a choice. Don't want to die in a labour camp? Then don't rape or kill people, unless it's out of self defense or something.

In fact it's worse than that, a slave can be treated with reasonable dignity in some cases. With what you're suggesting you are just killing them for profit.

It beats the hell out of wasting thousands of dollars baby-sitting them for 20 years.

 

[Dawn]

It could have been stautory rape.
In California statutory rape is a felony when the victim and offender are more than 3 years apart in age and a misdemeanor when they are 3 years close in age. So if it was a misdemeanor, the offender woul have gotten 1 year max.

60 days is way less than 1 year, let alone 3. I think that was, after all, his point.

The law is a complicated thing. I think it works well. I mean, you can either be too soft so that people just wind up back in jail, or you can be too hard so that good people don't get the chance they deserve. Being humans, it would be a lot more difficult to balance in between.

Instead, we, being America in this case, opted for a variable sentence that depended on a court case and the crime in question. I think that is pretty good considering we're still prone to human error.

 

[twocows]

There were a few posts that I disagreed with, but I'll pick apart the one that I disagreed with the most.

People don't change. In the short term they do, but in the long term, people are always the same.

What a bunch of nonsense. There are countless examples form history of people who have completely changed throughout their lives. Malcolm X was, for many years, a voice of racism and hatred; he completely changed after making the Hajj (pilgrimage to Mecca) and became an activist for racial unity (as a side note, I don't necessarily agree with many of his views, I just used him as an example).

I'm quite sick of hearing this line. It's so blatantly untrue that even a realist like myself can't tolerate it.

Imo, the punishment should fit the crime.

Yes.

Child molesters are just as bad as murderers, and to some people its worse.

Those people are idiots. Rape is a form of assault. It's tragic, and can seriously hurt people mentally and physically. However, I fail to see how assault is as bad or worse than murder. Assuming that, by murder, we mean unjustified killing of another person (ignoring off-topic things such as "what is justified"), in one case we have a person, hurt, but still alive, and in another we have a corpse. How, by any stretch of the imagination, can someone say being hurt is as bad or worse than being dead?

This one guy in Oklahoma or Nebraska or something like that only got 4 months or something ridiculous for raping a small 7 year old girl. I'm sorry, but in no way shape or form is that a just punishment. This girl is scarred for the rest of her life and will probably have to go to therapy, while this guy can roam the streets free??! He should be put in jail for a hell of a lot longer than that. For crimes such as murder the punishment should always be death, I don't give a crap what Gandhi said, the family who lost one (or more) members of their family has to greive over that and can never have them back, the same should happen to said murderer's family.

EDIT: I found the article: clicky. I was wrong, it was in Vermont, he got 60 days for raping a 6 year old girl.

Remember, he was sentenced by a jury of his peers. A fair number of reasonable people, then, saw the circumstances surrounding this situation and decided that 60 days was sufficient punishment. We don't know the details of what happened besides what the (obviously sensationalist) media is telling us. Perhaps the man had a mental disorder or perhaps he was suffering from brain damage. There are plenty of things the report could be leaving out for dramatization. Regardless, this certainly doesn't excuse the fact that the man, who obviously had some serious mental issues, wasn't able to get help before something like this happened. Our society makes it hard for people with certain varieties of mental problems to get help because we demonize people with those problems before they've done anything wrong, which may well put them on the fast track to doing something bad.

That's not to say people shouldn't be punished for their crimes; I firmly believe that they should. I think that we need to combine punishment with rehabilitation, though; pure punishment (our system) or pure rehabilitation (some foreign systems) are both equally ineffective. However, we definitely need to put measures in place to help prevent these sort of things before they happen; it should not get to the stage where someone mentally unstable will commit this sort of act.

 

[Dawn]

Those people are idiots. Rape is a form of assault. It's tragic, and can seriously hurt people mentally and physically. However, I fail to see how assault is as bad or worse than murder. Assuming that, by murder, we mean unjustified killing of another person (ignoring off-topic things such as "what is justified"), in one case we have a person, hurt, but still alive, and in another we have a corpse. How, by any stretch of the imagination, can someone say being hurt is as bad or worse than being dead?

I'd like to point out that an indepth study of rape would reveal that it is far different than assault, and essentially worse. Rape is often not just a brutal physical assault, but a mental and emotional assault as well. That's why it's not done by strangers most often, but by people the victim knows. Not only this, but the physical trauma of rape could be called attempted murder on it's own.

Some people do this with intents to cause massive emotional and mental damage. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that generally there is a dominance complex involved in rape.

It's not a far-fetched case at all to say a person could rape someone with intent to ruin their lives to the point where they kill themselves.

So I'd have to disagree and say rape is VERY close to murder in severity. Perhaps not greater, perhaps not equal, but it's definitely worse than assault, and not far off from attempting murder.

 

[Guillermo]

You're given a choice. Don't want to die in a labour camp? Then don't rape or kill people, unless it's out of self defense or something.

How is raping someone self defense?

 

[curiousnathan]

How is raping someone self defense?

^ I strongly agree. How?It is an act of evil and selfishness, in my opinon.
(Sorry if I came on too strong about that.)

 

[Jacob77]

I was typing something here, but then I asked myself , "Does my opinion really matter ..." and if I'm going to get flamed for this IDK wth is wrong with you. Since all we discuss is rape and murder, but how about crimes agaisnt the enviroment? Like the Oil leak that is happening right now in the southern part of the US. It might eventually end up with the "Evildoers" of Shell sneaking out of trouble. I mean , this catastroph is just like flipping the bird to all of those wanting a more green world (Hippies ...?) And whatever the bill will be in the end is to cheap.
When we recieve new technology (Oil wells is new technology? HAH!) then shouldnt we be more cautios and take baby steps and see what happens ...?

(I agree partly with sumeet109 , to me , human rights didnt really exist in the first place :/, it's all just charades made up by some random people, and the fact is that it's the tax payers that pays for the crimes , not the criminals, I say make em work the money they on crime they could'nt pay in the first place.)

 

[Dawn]

How is raping someone self defense?

I lol'd

Yes, it's virtually impossible to rape someone in self-defense. But I think he was talking about the killing.

Y'know, murder sorta deserves the attention. It is after all worse, though not by a mile like some would say.

 

[sumeet109]

How is raping someone self defense?

I was referring to murder. I might not have worded it correctly. But it can still happen, though. Someone can put a gun up to your head and tell you to rape the next person that walks by or they'll shoot both you and the other person.

 

[Yusshin]

Maybe some sicko says "I'll kill you if you don't rape this woman"?

Technically that would be, uh, raping in self-defence >_>

 

[shookie]

I was typing something here, but then I asked myself , "Does my opinion really matter ..." and if I'm going to get flamed for this IDK wth is wrong with you. Since all we discuss is rape and murder, but how about crimes agaisnt the enviroment? Like the Oil leak that is happening right now in the southern part of the US. It might eventually end up with the "Evildoers" of Shell sneaking out of trouble. I mean , this catastroph is just like flipping the bird to all of those wanting a more green world (Hippies ...?) And whatever the bill will be in the end is to cheap.
When we recieve new technology (Oil wells is new technology? HAH!) then shouldnt we be more cautios and take baby steps and see what happens ...?

Uh, oil spills are pretty much never on purpose. The one in the Gulf of Mexico happened after an explosion. Earlier this year, in Texas, a tanker and a barge collided which caused oil to spill on the Texas/Louisiana border. One last year was caused by negligence, not a criminal act, and so on.

Also, while it varies for each offender, rape is often said to be motivated by power or gaining authority and/or to make themselves feel better about their flaws. Like almost everything else it also depends on things like how they were raised and what their position is in society.

 

[Tinhead Bruce]

Uh, oil spills are pretty much never on purpose. The one in the Gulf of Mexico happened after an explosion. Earlier this year, in Texas, a tanker and a barge collided which caused oil to spill on the Texas/Louisiana border. One last year was caused by negligence, not a criminal act, and so on.

Depending on the circumstance, negligence can indeed be a crime.

 

[FreakyLocz14]

Uh, oil spills are pretty much never on purpose. The one in the Gulf of Mexico happened after an explosion. Earlier this year, in Texas, a tanker and a barge collided which caused oil to spill on the Texas/Louisiana border. One last year was caused by negligence, not a criminal act, and so on.

Also, while it varies for each offender, rape is often said to be motivated by power or gaining authority and/or to make themselves feel better about their flaws. Like almost everything else it also depends on things like how they were raised and what their position is in society.

Negligence is a crime of omission. A common example of a negligence crime is when a parent accidentally leaves their child in the backseat of the car and they burn to death.

Criminal negligence requires that a person fail to act in a way that a reasonable person would and they create danger.

 

[Beechlgz]

People don't change. In the short term they do, but in the long term, people are always the same.

I don't know where you got this from, but I can only guess you have never met someone who has experienced a profound reform of character. Please don't spread such disinformation as "people don't change".


On-topic, I think the cases where the punishment doesn't fit the crime accounts for only a small proportion of most sentencing. However the numbers of people that adds up to is still huge. Too many people rotting away in prison who are no threat to anyone (sometimes, even a small mistake can land you in prison), too many free walking the streets who have proven themselves a danger to the public.

The main problem I think is human bias and error. Looking at the case of the man who got 60 days for child rape, that was pure bias on the judge's part. Not bias in favour of the criminal, but in favour of lack of punishment. He allowed his emotions to cloud his judgement, and thus the rapist walks free. Judges are human and are prone to error. Juries are sometimes bribed. Evidence can be fabricated. Petty crimes can be exaggerated, perhaps not in raw information but in people's minds. People are often made examples of. Sometimes, even the judges and other staff involved are not looking out for the best interests of justice.

I think someone else in this thread hit the nail on the head when they said human error and bias played a big part. That and corruption. If humans were perfect robots this system would work to perfection, but we are not.

While I do think the system needs to change, unfortunately, I like many can't think of an alternative that would be guaranteed to work.

 

[SBaby]

On-topic, I think the cases where the punishment doesn't fit the crime accounts for only a small proportion of most sentencing.

Clearly, you've never been to Wisconsin.

60 days is way less than 1 year, let alone 3. I think that was, after all, his point.

The law is a complicated thing. I think it works well. I mean, you can either be too soft so that people just wind up back in jail, or you can be too hard so that good people don't get the chance they deserve. Being humans, it would be a lot more difficult to balance in between.

Instead, we, being America in this case, opted for a variable sentence that depended on a court case and the crime in question. I think that is pretty good considering we're still prone to human error.

I don't know where you got this from, but I can only guess you have never met someone who has experienced a profound reform of character. Please don't spread such disinformation as "people don't change".

Look. My sister was raped as a kid. AND the guy that raped her did it again after getting off on the charges. So I know for a fact that once a rapist, always a rapist. THEY don't change.

Personally, if I was in charge, all convicted rapists would be castrated. It would certainly prevent the guy from doing it again.

 

[twocows]

I'd like to point out that an indepth study of rape would reveal that it is far different than assault, and essentially worse. Rape is often not just a brutal physical assault, but a mental and emotional assault as well. That's why it's not done by strangers most often, but by people the victim knows. Not only this, but the physical trauma of rape could be called attempted murder on it's own.

Some people do this with intents to cause massive emotional and mental damage. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that generally there is a dominance complex involved in rape.

It's not a far-fetched case at all to say a person could rape someone with intent to ruin their lives to the point where they kill themselves.

So I'd have to disagree and say rape is VERY close to murder in severity. Perhaps not greater, perhaps not equal, but it's definitely worse than assault, and not far off from attempting murder.

I know someone who has been a victim of physical assault and he was quite distraught emotionally. I think you underestimate how terrifying any form of assault can be. However, which of those two is worse was not my point; my point was that neither is worse than murder.