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I would say yes, per "Core Rule #3," it's okay to use an evolved Mon to breed for an unevolved Pokémon with a desired egg move as long as the evolved Mon does not battle AND it is done without the use of hacking.
I put a hard rule on "no hacked Pokemon" for this thread because I don't think there's a common or even realistic scenario where you would need to (unlike the monotype thread where it's necessary to do a challenge with certain types in certain games).
I should note that you might need to use the experience share in Gens 2 through 7 to get the desired egg move. To reference a real example regarding egg moves, Camerupt learns Rockslide upon evolution at level 33 in Generation 3, and during my Ice Monotype challenge, I bred a Camerupt (which did not battle per the rules of that thread) and my Sealeo to get a Spheal with the move Rockslide. I think this should be allowed in "no evolution" challenges as long as you only use the evolved mon for non-battle purposes.
Mods can overrule this if they want to, but if you're asking me, this is my answer.
I mean, your challenge, your rules. I'm definitely against Hacked (other than starters and only changing who the starters are, as you stated) for myself, so I'm all for it. I see what you mean - you can't battle with it, but you can use the xp share to get it to the right level. I was just gonna leave it as "catch a mon, breed a mon", sort of from the mindset of those challenges where it's "no new moves" or something like that. Give me some time to pick out some games, and I might do this while I'm on holiday break to give myself my own break from monotype lol
(Meta) Update: I'm falling behind in the "Secret Delibird" challenge, so I'm going to prioritize that for a while because it's a big goal of mine to have it finished by the deadline. Thank you for understanding.
I'm at the E4 in Gen 1 - can make it all the way through to Lance, but it's a bit rough. I'm hoping to get a breakthrough soon. This has been making me want to start another calculator where you can type something like "Level 50 Raichu" on one side, it generates the possible stat range, and then have it kick out what level you'd need another Pokemon of your selection to be at to equal those stats on average (what level do I need my Pikachu starter to be at to make the power of a level 50 Raichu). Big question, of course, but just one of those things I think about that might be beneficial as I do comparisons going into Gen 2.
I'll get back as soon as I can with the post for Gen 1. It's giving my brain both a workout and some downtime compare to Monotype, so I'm loving it. Tired of spamming B, though.
Ultimate No Evolution Run
Yellow / Only Entry / That Was Different
In this post (i.e., TL;DR)
Spoiler:
-- Brock
-- Misty
-- Surge
-- Erika
-- Koga
-- Blaine
-- Sabrina
-- Giovanni
-- Elite Four/Champion
The full read:
Spoiler:
-- Brock (3h25m)
Starting with Brock in Yellow requires that I pick up a Mankey. Having Low Kick is a sure way to get through the battle. I was thinking I'd keep Spearow and NidoranF in general, and then also potentially keep Mankey. But after Brock (and I keep typing Borck which is fun to say), I decided I needed to take a step back and look at things in General. Having higher speed is of extreme value in a run like this, almost more than it is in a normal run. But at the moment, and looking forward to working on Gen 2, the less switching I do between team members, the better. Need to have the most XP as possible shared to the end game team.
It was at that point I decided to pull up the list of Pokemon and decide what would be the most helpful. Talking it over with my son, we decided Drowzee was gonna be best boi, and that was a certainty that I would pick him up. Diglett having EQ and being super fast also helps, so I added that to the team. I decided also to just get the three starters, because I can give the Dig TM to Charmander, Ice Beam to Squirtle to deal with Lance's Dragons. Bulbasaur was probably the one that I wasn't 100% certain about, but hey, good for anything trying to Poison me to avoid that. So, that was it, I decided I'd end up with Pikachu, Charmander, Bulbsaur, Diglett, Drozee, and Squirtle.
-- Misty (5h53m)
Misty was easy with Pikachu's Thundershock, especially after having completed the Nugget Bridge portion first (not all the way to Bill) and picking up Charmander. Charmander at this point wasn't high leveled, but with Thundershocks flying left and right, not like it had to be against Misty. Wasn't ever gonna be used.
I spent some time leveling Charmander just north of Cerulean, because the vast majority of Pokemon there are grass types and Ember is good. Unfortunately, the next best fire move doesn't come for a long time for Charmander, so I do give it the Dig TM. Diglett won't need it since it learns it naturally.
Before Surge, I pick up Bulbasaur (which I choose to train on the Diglett and Dugtrio in the cave), Drowzee (which I don't need to train much at any real point, since Psychic moves are just broken in Gen 1), and Diglett. I do a lot of training and fight everybody on the SS Anne, then it's time for Surge.
-- Surge (9h35m)
Okay, it's Dig from Diglett and then, if needed, Dig from Charmander. Gen 1 feels a little meh because a gym battle is usually "spam X move to win". After beating Surge, I pick up Squirtle. I do just a little bit of training in Diglett Cave, so that when I get to Rock Tunnel, I can do more training with Squirtle. Keep fighting everything, and then on to Erika.
Pikachu gets Thunderbolt from the TM because why not. Though, in hindsight as I'm writing this, I would have preferred Drowzee to learn it, although it can't. Drowzee has way better Special than Pikachu. Pikachu just has the speed. Drowzee has the bulk. Kinda funny when you can say "Drowzee is my tank", but it was true.
-- Erika (14h42m)
Trainers in the Celadon Gym are easy enough, but Erika is a pain. The time different of five hours is down to doing the Rocket Hideout and gaining more levels. Got Squirtle up to a respectable L30, but that'll be the last time it's at the highest level out of my team. I go and pick up Psychic and teach it to Drowzee, and after Charmander goes down cause all it can do it Ember, Drowzee takes over and Psychics her team. Easy.
-- Koga (21h51m)
Yada yada ghosts in Lavender Town, Psychic is easy enough. I give all PP Ups I find to Psychic cause 10 PP is just not enough. Then I go down the eastern side of Kanto, ending up in Fuschia. Get all of the Safari Zone stuff done, and then realize I can't be Koga. Another repeat of Celadon Gym: I fight EVERY trainer in Silph Co, and then once that's all done, I come back with a Charmander with Flamethrower, a Diglett with Rock Slide, and basically my team done with most move learning and it's just all about leveling now. I thought about farming stat experience with the Super Rod to get Gyarados, but they are SOOOO rare to pull up. Oh well. Flamethrower and Rock Slide are enough to get me past the Venomoth on Koga's team, securing me the win. It's always just one single 'mon that walls me.
-- Blaine (23h12m)
No way I'm taking on Sabrina, but I have a Squirtle and a Diglett, so let's take care of Blaine. <takes care of Blaine> Well, that was easy. And yes, once again, I fought all the trainers.
The two side notes I can make at this point are: 1) that I was really starting to feel the pain of not evolving; and 2) that I really should have made a list of trainers in the order that you come upon them and what their starting 'mon is. The latter is something I can control, and it would be helpful to have a list like that so I can not have to feel like the best course of action is to save before every trainer and then risk restarting because the first 'mon has a bad matchup.
-- Sabrina (23h30m)
With all the training I've done, a bunch of quick EQ took out her team. Well...okay then. I was fairly certain it wasn't going to be that easy. The Psychic type is so powerful, so maybe I worried for nothing. I'm not going to question it if I get through it. I know the E4 are going to be a pain anyways.
-- Giovanni (23h58m)
Yeah, 28 minutes and I cleared out the gym. Well, Psychic for the fighting types and Surf/Razor Leaf for the ground. Bulbasaur is definitely the worst. Razor Leaf is okay in that it's Grass-type Slash, but eh. Doesn't help if I can't survive to use it (or use Mega Drain...can't wait for Giga Drain in the future).
-- Elite Four and Champion (Endgame Completion 33h28m)
---- Lorelei: Best scenario to survive is use Double Team, let Dewgong use Rest, and then keep using Double Team until I've used it 5 times. Then spam Thunder. When that gets down to 1 PP, save it for Lance's Gyarados and switch to Thunderbolt.
---- Bruno: Squirtle for the Rock types, and Drowzee for the Fighting
---- Agatha: Drowzee as long as possible, then switch to either Charmander or Diglett for Ground moves. That extra few PP due to the PP Ups definitely proved worthwhile here, given I used some Psychic uses during the Bruno fight.
---- Lance: The wall. Save before. Then save again like a good Pokémon player. Reset if Thunder doesn't knock out Gyarados. When it does, do what damage I can with Body Slam (yes, I did give that to Pikachu just for the extra potential damage or the possible Paralysis). Then switch to Squirtle and hope for the best. I tried this battle so many times and eventually went back and grinded (which is why there's a massive 10 hours of grinding between Giovanni and endgame). Built up my stock of items as well. I got lucky enough to get by the two Dragonair, then revive Pikachu and took out Aerodactyl with a crit Thunderbolt and then a regular Thunderbolt (somehow, Hyper Beam missed so phew). After that, it's just Drowzee using the last few Psychic to take out that final Dragonite and I was so happy I was through.
---- Champion: Compared to Lance, this was a one-attempt battle. Sandslash down to multiple uses of Mega Drain (why waste anything else). Alakazam comes out and uses Kinesis, but I double up on EQ to knock it out. Flamethrower for Exeggutor. Cloyster down to my last Thunderbolts. Magneton and Flareon down to a final EQ and then just Dig. And that's it. Champion was SOOO easy compared to Lance.
I was not prepared to do Gen I because of the usual Gen I jank, but also, the abilities in Gen 3 make Kanto a lot easier. I think I forgot to mention this, but Clefairy's Cute Charm infatuated and immobilized Lance's Dragonite for (probably) ten turns (maybe there was a unique interaction with Outrage), so I ended up chipping away its HP. It was really funny watching his Dragonite just sit there and take it!
Side note: Cosmic Power on a Gen 3 Clefairy during this challenge was optimal for the Elite Four since the only thing that can really beat 4-6 Cosmic Powers is a critical hit, which did come up during [I think] Lorelei, but it was a pretty sweet ride nonetheless.
In all honesty, I had to look up what an EQ was, and then I was like "Oh, duh, Earthquake." It also took me longer than it should have (on my part) to realize the challenge was 33 hours (as opposed to these times adding up to the total time it took you to beat the game). I thought for a minute there you had grinded for 15 hours just to beat Gym Leader Koga, and I was like "Woah, Koga took you HOW LONG?!"
I look forward to the Gen 2 update, but I understand if you want a break after all that.
Sorry, I am making little changes in things, and carried that over from Moon on Ultimate Ghost. Moon has more trials than I typically track on my spreadsheet (I only built that for 9 spots, one of which is always endgame), so Gen 7 is a little different in how I try to approach that. I listed basically every trial to talk about it, so was adding those intermediary times. Always a balancing act for what's too much information for people to read through versus not enough.
I did start Gen 2, but did like two hours of analysis to figure out what team I wanted to use, and ended up deciding on Cyndaquil, Geodude, Slowpoke, Machop, Magnemite, and Smoochum (and I'm already past the first gym thanks to Rock Throw). I think that gives me a nice amount of type coverage. And I did give myself the six Everstones from the get-go. Got a bit too tired of spamming B at the end of a battle. "What's that - a level up?" Switches from spamming A to spamming B.
And yeah, loading up on Pikachu's Double Team is nice, but when those crits hit, it sucks. It's even worse in Gen 1 because of how crit chance is calculated, so I don't blame you for preferring Kanto Gen 3 over Kanto Gen 1.
If I remember Cute Charm right, you only needed it to trigger once, which is the 1/3 chance - after that, every turn's the usual 50% chance to miss. I do think there's an interaction for Infatuation and Outrage that I want to say cancels the rest of that use of Outrage if it triggers at any point.
As a final statement, I don't think I'm braver - just "stubborn"-er than most.
Username: Devalue
Single / Ultimate: Single
Game(s): Silver
Optional rules: Will try to stick to the usual personal rules (level caps, Set mode, 3 items per trainer, no X items, no in-battle Revives). Might need to bend on one of those. Sees in due time.
Spent a while figuring out a team in advance as well. Only plans to use one of the Pokemon StenirRPG mentioned long-term, interestingly.
Limit 3 items in battle per trainer. No in-battle Revives or X items.
Level limits (more of a "try your best" than hard limits):
Falkner: 9
Bugsy: 16
Whitney: 20
Morty: 25
Chuck: 30
Pryce: 31
Jasmine: 35
Clair: 40
Lance: 47 (Karen's Houndoom)
Hopes to stick to those. Cannot say how tough not evolving is. Might have to relent on one of those, but hopefully not.
Named the trainer "C", the constant for indefinite integrals. Themed all the names after constants, idioms about not changing, and so on.
Chose Chikorita as the starter and named it "Benevolnce" (ten character limit), one of the five constant virtues of Confucianism. Needs several Pokemon (and okay-ish names) before reaching any long-term party member. Almost picked Chikorita as a long-term party member. Decided on someone else. Wanted to grab it anyways, just in case, despite being the worst option for the gyms before the main party comes along.
Begins with exceptionally trash luck. Grumbled about missing two Tackles (95% accuracy) in one fight. Went to the next level against the rival. Missed three Tackles. How? Still won the fight on a critical that might have mattered. Ended on 1 hitpoint.
Named the rival "Death". Counts on two things in life: Death and Taxes.
Realized Benvolence's levels creeping up (8). Caught Righteous the Geodude now, rather than hoping for the level 4 Dark Cave one, as well as Propriety the Spearow. Deals with the early problems.
Officially starts a counter of missed Tackles. Is at 7. Has not reached Violet City yet. Ought to consider one for criticals too. Swears on it being something like 1 for the enemy's 10.
Missed Tackle #8 on Trainer Mikey's Rattata.
Challenges Falkner a little earlier than expected. Hit level 9 on Benevolence, Righteous, and Propriety before reaching the top of Sprout Tower. Strategy: Use Geodude against the birds. May switch to clear some accuracy drops. Counts none of the Tackle misses here, of course, unless they have no accuracy drop.
Started out bad. Missed...3 of the first 4 Tackles? Switched to Propriety. Beat Pidgey. Set the stage for Righteous by Growling Pidgeotto twice and Leering once. Switched Righteous into a critical. (Handed it a Berry before the fight, thankfully.) Went better from there, though. Landed most of the Tackles. Won with both Propriety and Righteous in the red. Needed no items.
Reprimanded Death for treating Pokemon like tools of war at the top of Sprout Tower. How fitting. Also liked the image from "Death used an Escape Rope!". Might have seen the first enemy Tackle miss from the sage, also.
Passed on Onix in Union Cave. Looks great in terms of BST. Saw too many Pokemon with special moves for the fights near the end, not to mention a bad moveset. Maybe should have considered Machop. Demolished Propriety with a critical Low Kick. Also declined to pick up Slowpoke, who was heavily considered. Learns Curse and Amnesia, on top of good defensive stats.
Battled Death and won with Righteous solo. Leveled everyone to 16 for Bugsy. Should be straightforward: Defense Curl x6, then throw a bunch of rocks.
Beat Metapod in two Rock Throws. (Barely used Harden.) Missed 3 of 5 Rock Throws on Kakuna (90% accuracy, by the way), leading to getting poisoned on the last hit. Never took a tick of poison damage, however, as Scyther went down to one Rock Throw.
Expected to catch the first long-term team member on the road to Goldenrod. Only appears a little later at a 1% chance in Gold/Silver. Pssssh. Headed north to Goldenrod, and more specifically the Bug Catching Contest. Wants Scyther.
Why Scyther? Weighs in at a titanic 500 BST, blowing away the next two highest (Ponyta at 410 and Onix at 385). Uses Attack, which goes well with the easily obtained Headbutt and Return. Gets even better, though. Learns Swords Dance and Double Team by level-up, albeit late. Should be able to sweep, given enough time and a decent opportunity.
Bug Catching Contest #1: Found at least 6 Pinsirs, probably 6 Beedrills, and a few Butterfrees (5% each) before a Scyther (also 5%). Fainted Righteous before managing to catch it. Sighs.
Bug Catching Contest #2: Not as bad on finding it. Fainted again. What are the rough odds of catching this thing? ...21%? What? Burned through, like, 25 balls or so by now. Feels like Kangaskhan all over again. Why are parks so mean?
Bug Catching Contest #3: Ran away from a female Scyther (lower Attack IVs in this generation). Caught a level 14 male Scyther in 5 balls. (Weakened this one a bit more, so a 24%ish catch chance.) Took 2nd place somehow, with 350 points. Won an Everstone, fittingly.
Bug Catching Contest #4: Pretty quick. Caught a level 14 male Scyther in 3 balls. Won 2nd place again, with 366 points.
Bug Catching Contest #5: Not bad on encounter rate. Fainted after chucking 13 balls.
Bug Catching Contest #6: Saw at least 3-4 of each of the other 5% encounters. Ran from one female Scyther. Tackle miss counter: 9. Caught a level 13 Scyther in 5 balls. Won 1st place with 346 points.
Bug Catching Contest #7: Quite quick. Ran away from one female Scyther too. Caught this level 13 male Scyther in 3 balls. Won 1st place with 332 points.
Tough choice. Picked #4 and named it "War". Never changes.
Came here for a second reason too. Caught a male Sunkern. Taught Headbutt to War and plunged back into Ilex Forest for a female Exeggcute. Bred them together to pass Mega Drain onto Exeggcute. Represents its only offensive Grass move pre-Kanto, besides Solarbeam. Hatched four eggs. Spares you the stats. Chose the one with better Special Attack, Special Defense, and Hitpoints. Named it "Past".
Wanted Exeggcute for two main reasons: Sleep Powder and Leech Seed. Gets the former quite a bit later. Starts off with Hypnosis, however, so no big deal. Pays for Sleep Powder by having an iffier typing than Chikorita, but oh well.
Glanced at the exact DVs of the Exeggcutes after picking. Yikes at the one with 0 DVs in Hitpoints, Attack, Special Attack, and Special Defense. Calculates things a little weird in this generation. Ties the two Special stats together. Uses some formula for Hitpoints. Even so...
Tallied Tackle miss #10 while getting Righteous up to level 20, along with War and Past. Did not bother with the others too much. Hopes to mainly beat Miltank with Past between Hypnosis and Leech Seed. Suffers from a very male-heavy team, however. Could go wrong easily.
Handled Clefairy no problem. Started with Leech Seed on Miltank, given plenty of Hypnosis misses prior to this. Landed the first follow-up Hypnosis as Miltank was starting to Rollout. Never woke up. Might have been the easiest Whitney fight to date. Ended at full health.
Concludes this update here. Catches the other four long-term team members...before the next gym? Cannot recall how far you can go without beating Morty. Could take a while to catch everyone and catch them up. Breeds for at least one of them.
Spoiler: Team
War the Scyther
Level: 20
Moves: Headbutt, Quick Attack, Focus Energy, Pursuit
Past the Exeggcute
Level: 20
Moves: Hypnosis, Leech Seed, Mega Drain, Confusion
I haven't yet posted my blurb about Crystal yet - I finished it over the long break and just needed an actual break. I'll probably get to that tomorrow at some point. But if I remember right, the limitations are:
- you can't get east of Mahogany Town until you complete the entire Team Rocket plotline
- you can't use Surf until you have Morty's badge
Since you need Surf to battle the Red Gyarados, you wouldn't be able to complete any part of the Mahogany area.
So, I believe, once you set foot in Ecruteak, the available locations without beating Morty would be:
EAST OF ECRUTEAK
- Route 42
- Mt. Mortar (I picked up a Machop in my run)
- Route 43
- Lake of Rage (headbutt, fishing, etc.)
WEST OF ECRUTEAK
- Route 38 (I picked up a Magnemite here)
- Route 39
- Olivine City (fishing - don't forget to pick up the Good Rod here)
- Olivine Port (fishing)
And then pretty much anywhere that you can fish using the Good Rod now, if those interest you. And of course, don't forget Burned Tower, which I know you HAVE to go to in Crystal, but I believe it's able to be entered in GS as soon as you arrive.
Oh, right, I forgot to add Devalue to the challengers list. Let me fix that.
I really should return to my challenge in Sapphire, but I'm taking a bit of a break after finishing the "Secret Delibird" challenge. It'll probably just be a week, but I really want to play some other games in the meantime.
Ah, good. Thought you could head to Olivine before taking on Morty. Was not sure if they put a person stopping you between routes or something. Forgot about Mahogany, probably because of not being able to do much there without Surf.
Update 2: Morty to Clair
Team: War (Scyther) and Past (Exeggcute)
Sprayed Sudowoodo and went into Ecruteak. Begins the hunt to find everything.
First up: a Magmar in Burned Tower. Headed to the basement and caught the first male Magmar (for the good Attack DVs). Cannot use it as-is. Will need to hit up the Day Care to produce some eggs with a Ditto caught previously.
Why Magby? Comes in at #4 for total BST. Learns solid moves (Fire Punch, Flamethrower, Thunder Punch). Respects its Special Attack stat ever since getting roasted by them in SOS battles in Sun/Moon. (Had a really high call rate and a low capture rate.) Cannot overlook its stronger physical Attack and good Speed for good Headbutts. Would have picked Ponyta instead (the #2 BST), if it were available sooner than after Badge #8 (ignoring ridiculous trades). Extra note: Double-checked to make sure you could enter the Burned Tower now before starting Silver. Could not remember if that was a Crystal-only thing or not (which would then lead to Odd Egg Magby).
Held off on going to breed immediately, however, because of another problem child nearby. Dove into Route 38 for a 1% Snubbull. Was not going to catch four of these.
Picks up Magnemite on the same route, coincidentally. Wanted something with Thunder Wave. Fit the bill. Has a strong Special Attack stat at 95 (3rd to Abra and Gastly) and a phenomenal typing. Used Magnemite in a challenge before. Expects good things from it...kind of. Has one drawback of bad moves. Chooses between Thundershock and Thunder for damage. Might teach it Rain Dance, but who knows?
Caught four Magnemites before seeing one Snubbull (unsurprisingly). Chose one with the 2nd best Hitpoints and the best Special and Defense stats. Was not a difficult choice. Named it "Static" .
Continued hunting for Snubbull. Saw way more than 5 Miltanks and 4 Tauros (5% and 4% encounter chances, respectively). Lucked into a male Snubbull, which is great. Guarantees a high Attack DV, considering the 1 male:3 female ratio. ...Did you know that wild Pokemon can flee? Applies to 21 Pokemon in Generation 2 (besides the legendary dogs), with a 10% chance for Snubbull. Guess what happened on Turn 3, right before throwing a ball? What jerk decided a 1% encounter should flee? Siiiiiiiighs. (Edit note: Wait for a swarm. Jumps to a 30% encounter rate.)
Take 2. Found another (male) Snubbull after a probably average search. What are the odds of catching a Snubbull at full health with a Great Ball? 33%. (Has a mercifully high 190 catch rate.) Good enough. Caught it on the first ball.
Input the stats into an DV calculator. Looks very average, minus the high Attack. Hm. Bred three eggs with a Ditto. (Took Snubbull out of the daycare immediately, just in case of losing a good move.) Got two female Snubbulls and one male Snubbull. Looked pretty similar to the original, minus a little better Speed on the new male. Decided to stick with the original. Named it "Spots" . Cannot change its spots.
Why Snubbull? Charm. Competed with Eevee (with breeding), Togepi, and Igglybuff for the role. Preferred Snubbull's Attack stat. Learns some solid moves: Return, Sludge Bomb, and Shadow Ball. Serves a role beyond debuffing.
Hatched some Magbys at the same time, also. Selected one of the two male Pokemon and named it "Sun" .
Accepted a Good Rod to fish up the last team member: Staryu. Reports some terrible luck in finding the 10% chance. Estimates 7 Staryu in 110 Pokemon. Declined to catch some because of being at lower Hitpoints than others after two Sonic Booms. Grew tired of fishing and caught a lower Hitpoint one anyways. The upside: Leveled everyone to 23 on all the Magikarps and Krabbys along the way.
Figures. Gave better Hitpoints to the ones with worse Special. Picked #1. Compensated for the lower Hitpoints with better defenses. Named it "Taxes" . Felt fitting after naming Starmie "Luxury" (Tax) in the Budget Challenge, after the amount spent on it.
Why Staryu? Ties for the 8th best BST, and the highest among Water types. Chose it for Minimize and Recover, plus Blizzard, if you want to count that. Was a tough choice. Competed with Tentacool (Barrier), Slowpoke (Curse + Amnesia), Psyduck (Hypnosis), Poliwag (Hypnosis + Belly Drum), and Chinchou (Thunder Wave + Confuse Ray) for the spot.
Completes the team. Boosted their moves as well: Blizzard to Taxes, Thunder to Static, Return to Spots + War, and Headbutt + Thunder Punch to Sun. Took advantage of the free Game Corner coins. Further improved it by beating the Kimono Girls and teaching Surf to Taxes.
Grinded everyone to 25. Cleared the lighthouse in the process. Strategy for Morty: just hit stuff. Shies away from using Confusion with the Pokemon weak to Ghost, though.
Led with Taxes. One-shot Gastly. Criticaled Haunter. Escaped Gengar's first Hypnosis, but not the second. ...Actually gave Taxes a Mint Berry (sleep cure) to make room for an item earlier, not for strategy reasons. Finished Gengar on the next Surf. Needed two Surfs to take out the last Haunter. Almost made it out with no damage. Handed the new Shadow Ball TM straight to Spots.
Thought about heading east to Mahogany. Wants Fly now. Ignored most of the trainers along the way to Cianwood. Headed into the gym. Remembered something about the trainers here...oh, yes. Some jerk with a transfer-only Rock Slide or something. Remembered before War fought it.
Leveled no one higher than 26, despite a level cap of 30. (Deals with Pryce's 31 level cap later. Involves way too much backtracking without Fly.) Handed it over to War. Would have liked Wing Attack (at level 30), but oh well.
Smacked down Primeape in two Returns, with a defense drop via Leer to show for it. Plinked Poliwrath for maybe 30% of its health. Dropped from 80 (full) to 14 hitpoints on a critical Surf from Poliwrath. Switched to Past, who lost exactly 1/3 of their health on the incoming Surf. Leech Seeded Poliwrath. Handled the next Surf a hair better. Stayed in to try to put Poliwrath to sleep, only for Poliwrath to use their Hypnosis first. Defied the odds and woke up on the first possible turn. Fell back asleep on the very next turn. Won well before then, however, as Leech Seed finished the job (draining 12 hitpoints a turn, or about half a Surf) while asleep. Chose so right on wanting that move for the team.
Ran over to the Lake of Rage. Brought a Krabby along to Cut to a Hidden Power TM, plus all the other items. Placed Spots in front for the shiny Gyarados. Lost a ton of hitpoints on the opening Thrash (80%?). Got off a Charm, though. Opened the door for Static to come in and weaken it. Caught it in the first Ultra Ball, purely for never wanting to kill the shiny (and also being good for HMs).
Reports nothing too interesting in the Rocket Base, other than surviving an Electrode's critical Self-Destruct on Static. Accepted the Sludge Bomb TM from the guard up north and taught that to Spots.
Looked up everyone's Hidden Power. Eyed Static in particular, as the one with the weakest moveset. Lucked out with a 64 power Psychic on Static. Was the most viable one too, with Sun's 54 Ground being okay-ish. Extra note: Looked at the DVs for all the Pokemon not selected. Included a Magnemite with 2/2/0/4/4/3 DVs. Takes talent to be that terrible.
Backtracked for some random items. Yielded some experience, but not nearly enough for Pryce's level cap (31). Thought about heading into Whirl Islands and soaking up experience along the way. Decided to just tackle the gym. Grabs the Amulet Coin and better training spots by pushing ahead.
Challenged Pryce at levels 28-29. Strategy for Pryce: Zap stuff with Static. Roast Piloswine with Sun. Might toss a Leech Seed onto Dewgong if it Rests.
Missed the first Thunder on Seel. Obliterated it on the second. Switched to Sun for Piloswine. One-shot it with a critical Fire Punch. Critted again against Dewgong, bringing it to maybe 33% health. Brought Static back in to take Dewgong's Headbutt. Went big and missed on Thunder. Connected the second time, but not before Dewgong Rested. Barely missed the one-shot. (Should have put the Magnet on.) Polished off the last sliver with Thundershock.
Popped into Jasmine's gym straight after, considerably under the level 35 cap. Strategy: Melt everything with Sun. Likely switches to Past or Taxes for Steelix.
Critted the first Magnemite. (Marks three straight criticals.) Thought for a while before sending Past in for Steelix. Survived Rock Throw + Iron Tail at 3 hitpoints. Got off the Leech Seed. Handed it off to Taxes to take the Iron Tail. Fell below half on the resisted Iron Tail. Went for Surf and fainted Steelix. Melted the final Magnemite with a Fire Punch from Sun (non-critical).
Breezed through the first section of the Radio Tower without any explosions. Defeated Death in the Goldenrod Underground without much trouble. Ran into some issues with the Houndoom atop the Radio Tower. Dealt a solid 75% health on a Bite against Sun and Taxes. Outsped Taxes and fainted it with, appropriately, Faint Attack. Finished it with War. Will have to be wary of Houndoom during the Elite Four later.
Skated through Ice Path. Arrived in Blackthorn at levels 31-33, well below the level cap of 40. Cannot afford to go into that gym so underleveled. Leveled everyone up to 38 (and War to 39) on the Route 44 trainers and wild Pokemon south of Blackthorn. Gained some good moves along the way: Minimize on Taxes, Flamethrower on Sun, and Sleep Powder on Past.
Strategy for Clair: Gamble on Blizzard. Might try Minimizing if the first Blizzard misses. Equipped Taxes with the Nevermeltice and PP Upped it to 7 uses. Expects to need Past to Leech Seed Kingdra at some point. Thank goodness for none of Clair's team knowing Dragon Rage, like the trainer just prior.
Smashed the first Dragonair in one Blizzard. And the second. And the third. Did not expect to make it this far. Passed on Minimizing versus Kingdra because of its Smokescreen. Outsped Kingdra, surprisingly. Took off about one-third of Kingdra's health with a Blizzard. Gambled on Blizzard again, despite getting Smokescreened. Missed and took another accuracy drop. Deemed it past time for Past to come in (to a Smokescreen). Missed the first Leech Seed. Succeeded as Kingdra went for its fifth straight Smokescreen, soon to be sixth straight. Put it to sleep on the second (Quick Clawed) Sleep Powder. Tossed in War to win the match. ...No damage Clair? What? Definitely never went this well before.
Grabbed the Dragon Fang in the Dragon's Den. Forgot how barren this place was in Gold/Silver. +1 badge.
Heads to Indigo Plateau in the last update. Will take a while to grind up to ~47. Hates this part of Johto the most. Typically never grinds that high. Feels more necessary this time.
Spoiler: Team
War the Scyther
Level: 39
Moves: Headbutt, Return, Agility, Wing Attack
Past the Exeggcute
Level: 38
Moves: Sleep Powder, Leech Seed, Mega Drain, Confusion
Taxes the Staryu
Level: 39
Moves: Surf, Blizzard, Minimize, Recover
Static the Magnemite
Level: 38
Moves: Thundershock, Thunder, Thunder Wave, Hidden Power (Psychic)
-- Falkner (1h38m)
Relatively straightforward. Cynda and Geodude. Easy enough with Rock Throw. Geodude is gonna be super nice, given how easy this was.
-- Bugsy (3h00m)
Cyndaquil with Ember and Geodude with Rock Throw sweep this. Did pick up Slowpoke so I have a decent Water/Psychic combo.
-- Whitney (4h00m)
Whitney can't do much to my Geodude, but I've also taught Headbutt to everyone as backup. Hilariously, I realize Slowpoke does more damage with that than Water Gun. Works for me, I guess.
-- Morty (6h54m)
Picked up Magnemite in the route west of Ecruteak and then Machop in the Mt. Mortar just to the east. But it took a mix of Slowpoke's Confusion and Geodude's Magnitude to pull through this one. Wanted to get a few levels under my belt before going after Morty.
-- Pryce (11h38m)
There's two choices for the fifth gym: Pryce or Chuck. Chuck is a problem right now given what I have available, so I choose to do the Rocket Plotline at this point and go after Pryce. His gym is a mixture of Ice and Water 'mons, so those that are just water go down to Magnemite, while the others go down to a mix of Flame Wheel and Rock Throw. Wish I got something better than Rock Throw. Meh. Starting to feel super meh. I also have Fighting moves at my disposal, which at times is helpful.
-- Chuck (12h47m)
Now I feel ready to take down Chuck. In hindsight, I wonder if I could have gone towards Blackthorn after beating the Rocket Plotline before doing Chuck and Jasmine. Part of the problem with Chuck's gym is that back-to-back battle at the start. I don't like Hitmonlee and Hitmonchan right now. I'll like them more when I get to do damage with it. Thunder Shock and Confusion are the two best options here for Chuck, but part of me wishes I picked up Thunder. Good thing I'll remember to go and get that right away...
-- Jasmine (13h10m)
Jasmine was super easy, especially with Flame Wheel, Magnitude, and Low Kick/Karate Chop.
-- Clair (25h41m)
Oh look, another "time to train" segment. I pick up Jynx, go back and breed a Smoochum, and set about leveling it. Very quickly, this thing becomes the MVP of the team. Smoochum be broken, y'all. I give it Ice Punch, and very quickly, I'm just destroying everything around me. Most of my team ended up having to go from level 30ish to level 38ish. Ice Punch does a lot of damage, and it's a good thing that I upgraded Magnemite's Thunder Shock to...oops. Well, Kingdra is just "let's use Thunder Punch and whatever else I can to take it out". That was a big oops on me. Sorry Magnemite. I do go back and grind for it and immediately teach it for Endgame.
-- Elite Four and Champion (Endgame Completion 38h35m)
There were no real problems in the Elite Four, at least until I reached Karen and that Houndoom. I absolutely hate that thing. And yes, another "time to train". That's two back to back 12h grind sessions. Very frustrating, especially when I could push through and make it to Karen repeatedly. But Houndoom is a mix of way too fast and way too powerful. Eventually, I get a lucky EQ that takes it out, so I'm able to move on. Lance is nothing with Ice Punch, Cross Chop, Thunder, etc. I'm pretty well rounded by this point.
Time to prepare for Gen 3. This time, I'm doing something a little different. I've pre-picked my team based on experience curve they use. My first goal is to start with Mudkip, pick up Nincada, then pick up Swablu, Lileep, Spoink, Shuppet, and Skitty. Up to about level 50, those are super fast in gaining levels. Gen 2 was picking based on type, Gen 3 is picking based on how many levels I can get under my belt. I feel like that might be the key going forward - more levels = better stats faster.
Team: War (Scyther), Past (Exeggcute), Taxes (Staryu), Static (Magnemite), Spots (Snubbull), and Sun (Magby)
Begins with something kind of unusual. Hit up the Goldenrod Department Store for vitamins. Plans to grind a lot. Hopefully hits the vitamin skill experience cap (or comes close). Spread them around a little, with some Calciums to Taxes, some HP Ups to Static and War, and some Proteins to War. Spent about 175000 Pokedollars. Will replenish that soon enough.
Beat the normal trainers en route to Victory Road. Realized Death is under the current team level (level 38 Typhlosion). Why not do that now? (Also benched Sun to be able to Waterfall here. Wanted them back.) Won with no trouble.
Grinded everyone up to 47. Did not feel too bad. (Never withdrew the 4 Rare Candies in the PC, if that tells you anything.) Stocked up on healing items, berries, and some extra vitamins.
First up: Will. Probably could win this with just War. Opts to use Past to assist in setup. Handed out a few Bitter Berries for confusion.
Went super smoothly. Leech Seeded Xatu and put it to sleep. Switched in War. Used Swords Dance three times without Xatu waking up. Smashed everything. Learned Double Team (over Agility) too.
Next: Koga. Refuses to try to set up on Ariados (Double Team, Baton Pass). Leads with Sun to melt it. Likely sends Muk out after that. Has a great switch to Static here. Figures out the rest from there. Passed out some poison cure berries too.
Blew up Ariados. Sent out Forretress against Sun. Cannot fathom why. (Spikes as a "Ground" move?) Battled Muk next. Switched to Static to completely wall Muk. Paralyzed it while it spammed Minimize and Acid Armor. Fainted it with Hidden Power (Psychic) eventually. Fired off two Hidden Powers to beat Venomoth while ignoring confusion. Zapped Crobat in one Thunder. Easy enough.
Third: Bruno. Is not scared of Hitmontop at all. Still plans to Leech Seed it to keep War's health high. Worries about Onix a little. Doubts a one-shot here, even at +6.
Leech Seeded Hitmontop and swapped out, taking a boosted Pursuit on the way out. Set up three Swords Dances and four Double Teams before Hitmontop went down. Sent a Return into Onix's face...and one-shot it. Wow. Criticaled Hitmonchan and Machamp, as if it were necessary. Zero issues.
Tried to calculate the damage. How did War one-shot Onix? Says 57.2 - 68.1% for Return in the damage calculator for 0 DV Onix. Assumes max skill experience for Onix and no badge boosts, but still. (Could have tanked a Rock Slide, also, supposedly.)
Fourth: Karen. Hm. Encounters the Exeggcute disadvanage (versus Chikorita) here. Dares not put it in against Umbreon. Lacks anything super-effective. Might be best to go in with the most damage possible with War. Had 149 Attack versus Static's 115 Special Attack, not to mention Umbreon's higher Special Defense. Gave War a Bitter Berry for the Confuse Ray.
Kicked off the battle with a Return critical into Umbreon. Brought it to 20% health. Dodged Sand Attack. Gladly took the knockout. Felt too unsure to let War try to one-shot Houndoom. Sent in Taxes. Took a critical Flamethrower to the face gem, immediately dropping to 29/106. Saw no point in switching now. Landed Surf before Houndoom acted. Left Houndoom on about 10% health, even with a Mystic Water equipped. Crunched Taxes for the first knockout on any major fight (right?). Brought War back. Healed Houndoom with a Max Potion. Turned out to not be enough to one-shot with Return. Won regardless. Gave Spots a chance to do something versus Gengar. Took a Curse and defeated Gengar. Matched up Sun against Vileplune (who barely survived a Flamethrower) and Static against Murkrow. Won those matchups easily.
And finally, Lance. Could go two directions here: War or Taxes. Runs up against Aerodactyl with War. Dislikes that matchup. Relies on random chance with Taxes between Minimize and Blizzards. Handled the last dragon trainer well, to be fair. ...Sure, Taxes. Wants to give it some air time after War dominated so far. Gave Taxes the Nevermeltice and a paralyze cure berry to several others.
Led with Spots to Charm Gyarados. Charmed twice before bailing. (Dropped to 36/134 on a rain-boosted Surf.) Tossed in Past to seed and sleep it. Turned to Taxes for the final leg of the setup. Got off five Minimizes before Gyarados woke up. Dodged the two Hyper Beams and took off the little bit of health left with Surf. Criticaled the first Dragonite for a one-shot. Missed the next Blizzard, but avoided Thunder Wave. One-shot on the next attack, non-critical. Expected Taxes to fall well short on damage. (Fed it some Calcium at one point. Might have pushed it over the edge?) One-shot the ace Dragonite too. Surfed to victory without taking damage on Taxes.
Challenge thoughts: Not as hard as expected. Never used an item in battle. Did not deal with many Pokemon fainting. Might be a Generation 2 thing? Likely never expected you to match the gym leader's level after...Whitney? Battled the Elite Four a few levels higher than usual.
Was interesting to use unevolved Pokemon. Made held items kind of annoying, though. Always wanted the Everstone on three of them, simply to pay less attention. Complicated using the Experience Share and Amulet Coin.
Team thoughts
War: The strong, reliable Pokemon. Matched up poorly against a lot of gym leaders. Still fared pretty well, thanks to its good stats and Return. Led the team in every stat except Special Attack. Tore it up at the end after finally getting Swords Dance.
Past: Amazing. Wound up being way better support than expected. Drains a lot of health with Leech Seed in this generation (1/8 max health). Only got nastier with more reliable sleep.
Taxes: Solid, if a little frail, solely from Surf and the option of Blizzard. (Looked at StenirRPG's Smoochum, then back to Taxes's stats. Clearly misremembered Staryu's Special Attack. Thought it was way higher than base 70. Must have conflated it with Magnemite's Special Attack. Was afraid to pick Smoochum because of its typing too, come to think of it.)
Static: Also good, thanks to its typing. Felt like Thunder hit often enough. Might be an impression from the beginning, though.
Spots: Not great. Did not really need Charm or its coverage much. How many times is Sludge Bomb the correct move to use? Just some Grass types that are not also Poison types? Felt like a worse Scyther at every turn. Wonders who would have been better, though. Tentacool for Houndoom?
Sun: Kind of a glass cannon, similar to Staryu. Appreciated its typing on the team. Handled all the Ice types the team did not like.
Spoiler: Final Team Stats and Movesets
War the Scyther
Level: 49
Moves: Swords Dance, Return, Double Team, Wing Attack
Stats: 150 HP, 147 Attack, 103 Defense, 84 Special Attack, 109 Special Defense, 141 Speed
Past the Exeggcute
Level: 47
Moves: Sleep Powder, Leech Seed, Mega Drain, Confusion
Stats: 142 HP, 69 Attack, 100 Defense, 88 Special Attack, 74 Special Defense, 61 Speed
Taxes the Staryu
Level: 48
Moves: Surf, Blizzard, Minimize, Recover
Stats: 108 HP, 62 Attack, 84 Defense, 103 Special Attack, 89 Special Defense, 105 Speed
Static the Magnemite
Level: 47
Moves: Thundershock, Thunder, Thunder Wave, Hidden Power (Psychic)
Stats: 103 HP, 64 Attack, 94 Defense, 114 Special Attack, 76 Special Defense, 66 Speed
Spots the Snubbull
Level: 47
Moves: Return, Sludge Bomb, Shadow Ball, Charm
Stats: 134 HP, 106 Attack, 66 Defense, 59 Special Attack, 59 Special Defense, 50 Speed
Sun the Magby
Level: 38
Moves: Flamethrower, Thunder Punch, Headbutt, Confuse Ray
Stats: 115 HP, 96 Attack, 58 Defense, 95 Special Attack, 81 Special Defense, 101 Speed
Yeah, it's a bummer, but I didn't really update this thread while it was the featured challenge. I took an unexpected break from the Pokemon games following the "Secret Delibird Challenge." That challenge put a lot of pressure on me to finish by the deadline, so I didn't really play a lot of Pokemon from mid-January to late-February. I did eventually return to a more casual run of Pokemon FRLG, which is actually part of a fan fiction I'm writing. I felt really burned out in late January. It was a struggle reading the updates in this thread and not because of anything that was done wrong by other people. I'm struggling to remember the chronology, but I was also kind of depressed by the end of January due to the cold & dark weather. I'm not 100% ready to completely return to this thread, either. I still need some time before I'm ready. I hope the admins understand.
3 weeks later, and I'm in the same point - had to adjust some things in real life, and took a break from Pokemon (though I did do the fourjobfiesta one, which was interesting). I got about halfway through Gen 3 before I needed to break. If there's anything I can do as I make my way back in, I'd be happy to help out.
![[PokeCommunity.com] The "No Evolution" Challenge](https://i.ibb.co/Y33vtLC/image.png "[PokeCommunity.com] The \"No Evolution\" Challenge")
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