Torture

Careful With That Axe said:
I can't. They should.
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Fair enough.

Please don't base your argument from a television series. This is not a joke.
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...?

I never said this was a joke. Does my first post in this thread look like the work of a hyper joker? Irritating troll, maybe, but joker, no. Basing my reply on a television series doesn't mean my post isn't worth reading so long as it has a valid point, and I believe it does.

To put it simply, you said:

What? Anyway, it should never be done. Period.
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I brought up the Jack Bauer question to challenge your statement, asking you if you'd rather let tens of thousands of people be killed so a criminal can avoid being tortured. It doesn't matter whether it's based on a television show or not, it's still a question.

If the ends justify the means, you can go salute Adolf Hitler, Porfirio Diaz, Castro... maybe have tea at Stalin's house.
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If you read my first post in this thread, you'd know that I said torture is acceptable in rare cases. The ends may justify the means once, but that doesn't mean it will all the time. Just because I believe torture in the most desperate times is right doesn't mean I'm going to tip my hat to Hitler or anyone else.

Pokemon Jupiter Version said:
And the above is correct. Basing an opinion on a television show is rather ridiculous, no?
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That depends on the opinion, no?
 
I think torture is very wrong. . . Unless its a REALLY necessary decision, if not, then I'm against it. It is just wrong to torture people, and I don't understand people who are able to do all this torturing on another human being... :<.

If its done to people who did nothing, yet have information.... That is a WRONG reason why to torture... I would talk it out of them

Yet on the ones who have information, and like... Killed ._. Then torturing is ok to me towards them >_>
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If you are in a jail cell and they are torturing you its breaching the law isn't it? I mean you have the right to remain silent until court sessions and all so why force a confession out of them. If on the other hand a person planted say a bomb or knew of a terrorist attack then beating the hell out of them till they talk so you can save your city or country I say hell go for it!
 
Never being one to turn down a bit of slap and tickle myself.

But srsly. Torture is a strange thing, sometimes it's needed and sometimes it is the best form of justice.

I do however feel PoW should never be tortured.
 
Rekhyt said:
I never said this was a joke. Does my first post in this thread look like the work of a hyper joker? Irritating troll, maybe, but joker, no. Basing my reply on a television series doesn't mean my post isn't worth reading so long as it has a valid point, and I believe it does.
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Yeah, well there's this thing about TV shows...they're scripted, quite often so that the good guys win, regardless of whether their tactics would actually work in the real world.
 
LOL. Wagner. Why was I warned not to post Political threads but you get too? XD

I posted that new development in the US Senate so YAY Politics!!!!
Alan Specter changes Party Affiliation to US Democrat. Filibuster Proof US Congress?

Anyways. I agree that Torture just gives us false confessions and fake info. Persuasion is still waaaaayyyyy better. >.>
Seriously the Bush Administrations Torture program is right out of the Chinese Red Book. <.<
 
Basing my reply on a television series doesn't mean my post isn't worth reading so long as it has a valid point, and I believe it does.
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No, it doesn't have a valid point. It suggests a fantasy scenario. This is not fantasy we're talking about.

It's rather sad when people have to recur to popular media to base a point in which they want to defend a wicked morality.
 
Imagination creates Beauty said:
no creature in this world has the right to be violent towards another creature.
this is including animals!!!

so, this means no.
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So all the carnivores should die because they kill other creatures? That's violent, right?

I Laugh at your Misfortune! said:
Yeah, well there's this thing about TV shows...they're scripted, quite often so that the good guys win, regardless of whether their tactics would actually work in the real world.
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QFT.

Both Misforutne and Axe Pichu are right, Rehkyt. Since it's scripted, it's planned out. I just didn't know that was a television series; I need to get out more =/

Torture, as said before, but repeated for emphasis, should be a last resort.
 
Careful With That Axe said:
No, it doesn't have a valid point. It suggests a fantasy scenario. This is not fantasy we're talking about.

It's rather sad when people have to recur to popular media to base a point in which they want to defend a wicked morality.
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You basically said torture is always wrong. Let's pretend I didn't mention Jack Bauer, and just asked you if you'd rather tens of thousands of people to die so someone could escape being tortured. What's your answer? Do your stand by your beliefs enough to ensure the deaths of innocent people?

Fantasy situations or not, one should be able to answer a question instead of ridiculing the posts of others.
 
Pokemon Jupiter Version said:
Yes, I did, and I commented.
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Right. In that case I'd love to know what 'evidence' you're referring to. I'm not attacking Pichu's beliefs, I just want to know if he's completely against torture or if he believes (like me) that in some cases it could be acceptable. Therefore, I asked him a question. Sure, it relied on a fantasy scenario, but what does that matter? If there's a ticking time bomb and thousands of lives are at stake, are you going to stop the torture of someone who knows what you need to know just because it's morally wrong? Would it not also be morally wrong to put a criminal in front of the lives of innocent people?
 
Why are you guys slamming on Rek even though he's already removed 24 from the statement and rephrased it as a potential scenario? I mean gosh, atleast have the decency to answer his question instead of just shooting him down.

I think in all honesty if I was in that position where if you tortured one person you'd save thousands i still wouldn't do it, not because I feel it would be wrong in that case, but because I wouldn't be able to.
 
Well, I'm not ramming on him. I just want a real scenario to prove a point, not a "potential scenario". Neither Pichu or him have changed my beliefs.

Instead of trying to argue with questions, give me a real life example in which will tip me over the fence. I prefer the logical appeal over anything.
 
So then from enough of real scenarios, we can determine whether or not torture is worth it. Rather than try to assume, we will need hard evidence, which is rather unfortunate for this topic, but true.

But, if it's PuretortureSHIPPING, then I'm all over it ^^
 
Right. In that case I'd love to know what 'evidence' you're referring to. I'm not attacking Pichu's beliefs, I just want to know if he's completely against torture or if he believes (like me) that in some cases it could be acceptable. Therefore, I asked him a question. Sure, it relied on a fantasy scenario, but what does that matter? If there's a ticking time bomb and thousands of lives are at stake, are you going to stop the torture of someone who knows what you need to know just because it's morally wrong? Would it not also be morally wrong to put a criminal in front of the lives of innocent people?
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Our point is, in any scenario, anything could be justified. In the end, fantasizing or the making of unprovable hypothesis doesn't contribute a thing to the topic.

Discuss a real problem in a realistic scenario. I apologize if it seemed I ridiculed you, it was not my intention. I just disagree with the way you base you argument.
 
Personally, I think torture is neccessary in some cases. If we have a man who has killed many and holds information to a terriorist campaign or location, and he isn't spilling, and we need answers before people die, then yes, we need torture. However, if a man beats his wife because she doesn't agree with him, then yes, that is unneccessary torture. Torture only with reason do I accept, but if it is pointless and only for sadistic pleasure, then no.
 
Wolfwhispers said:
Personally, I think torture is neccessary in some cases. If we have a man who has killed many and holds information to a terriorist campaign or location, and he isn't spilling, and we need answers before people die, then yes, we need torture. However, if a man beats his wife because she doesn't agree with him, then yes, that is unneccessary torture. Torture only with reason do I accept, but if it is pointless and only for sadistic pleasure, then no.
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What I want is for one of you to cite an example where torture has worked, where people have been saved because someone who was tortured gave accurate, reliable information. There are countless examples for the opposition - al-Libby being a particularly telling one, in which the CIA wrote in their notes that he appeared to be trying to make up any answer that would please the interrogaters.
 
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