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Ubers and Non-Ubers

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Winson

Legendary Pokemon Master
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    • Seen Oct 12, 2013
    I'm just wondering the fact that why Jirachi, Celebi and Shuckle (being like the Defensive counterpart of Attack Deoxys) are considered non-ubers... and the fact that Wobbuffet is and what's the chance that Latios/Latias got a Soul Dew on?
     
    ArcticGlaceon said:
    Soul Dew comes with the Lati@s on the island.

    Uber usually means High Stats.
    Click to expand...
    I know that but what is the chance that someone who uses Latios/Latias have one?
     
    Jirachi and Celebi has 100 base in each stat, as do Mew, but since Mew is able to learn every single attack (exept from Draco Meteor, Frenzy Plant, Blast Burn, and Hydro Cannon), it is so darn unpredictable that it is über.

    The Wobbster is über due to the fact that it might trap and counter almost anything due to its ability, and its insanely high HP stat. Adding encore to it's arsenal, it is DEADLY, and therefore über.
    Shuckle, to be honest, I don't know. It has insanely high def and spec. def, and is more of an annoyer rather than a wall, but as stated, I don't know.
    Latias and Latios is guaranteed to carry soul dew if you are facing it in the metagame, (since it boosts their special attack and defence by 50%) but if you are talking about the chance of getting it when you catch them, that should be 100% when you go for the other Lati@s.
    (If you chose Latias, then Latios will be holding the soul dew at the Nintendo Event Island)

    Hope I helped :)
     
    SlowpokeVII said:
    Jirachi and Celebi has 100 base in each stat, as do Mew, but since Mew is able to learn every single attack (exept from Draco Meteor, Frenzy Plant, Blast Burn, and Hydro Cannon), it is so darn unpredictable that it is über.

    The Wobbster is über due to the fact that it might trap and counter almost anything due to its ability, and its insanely high HP stat. Adding encore to it's arsenal, it is DEADLY, and therefore über.
    Shuckle, to be honest, I don't know. It has insanely high def and spec. def, and is more of an annoyer rather than a wall, but as stated, I don't know.
    Latias and Latios is guaranteed to carry soul dew if you are facing it in the metagame, (since it boosts their special attack and defence by 50%) but if you are talking about the chance of getting it when you catch them, that should be 100% when you go for the other Lati@s.
    (If you chose Latias, then Latios will be holding the soul dew at the Nintendo Event Island)

    Hope I helped :)
    Click to expand...
    you helped abit, but you missed the point when I mean by the chances... I meant what's the chance that someone had went through the Nintendo Event to get the Soul Dew...
     
    Ubers and non-ubers don't always go based off stats, although it plays a huge role.

    Tyranitar has higher stats than Garchomp, but Garchomp is uber due to its ability and his insane SD + Outrage combo that 2HKO's almost everything not resistant to it.
     
    Jirachi
    Honestly doesn't pose as a big threat. It doesn't have anything unique to it that makes it uber. If you get into competitive battling, you'll look at it like a regular OU Pokemon. It's been tested. It's abilities aren't threatening enough to bump it up to uber. A weakness to the most common offensive move isn't helping it either. You can't look at a Pokemon's stats alone - you have to look at its true power and ability. Arcanine, for example. It has one of the higher base stat totals for the non-uber Pokemon, but it isn't even an OU Pokemon.

    Celebi
    A denting x4 weakness to a common type never helped it. Moves like X-Scissor, U-turn, and Megahorn are everywhere nowadays. It's easily countered by Pursuit. Celebi's type matchup gives it a load of weaknesses. It's still a pretty nice Pokemon, just not good enough for ubers. It probably won't be for a long time.

    Shuckle
    It has these monstrous defenses, but can't put them to use very well. The only thing it can actually do is set up rocks and inflict status. It's moveset can annoy people with Encore / Knock Off, but that alone gives it ways to go for ubers. Bug / Rock typing gives it a lot of weaknesses, including a weakness to Stealth Rock. Shuckle is swept by Seismic Toss and the like very easily. It's set-up bait for steel Pokemon and Pokemon with Guts.

    Wobbuffet
    It revenge kills everything except Dark Pulses from a Dark Pokemon. It practically guarantees a KO on at least one Pokemon, and if you're stupid enough to set up on it, it Encores you and restores HP gradually with Leftovers. Toxic and the like are useless because of Safeguard. Shadow Tag makes it an easy uber with those moves.

    Latias / Latios
    They're uber with or without Soul Dew, 'nuff said.
     
    It is also possible to get the Soul Dew through Mystery Gift on PBR, I think.

    And the resons for said Pokémon being where they are are perfectly summed up by Raikazu; however he forgot to add that a tiny HP stat on Shuckle means it's defences are severely nerfed.
     
    There really isn't a point in arguing "what are the chances to get soul dew" since logically "what are the chances that someone could a a celebi in the right nature and IV?"

    Generally any competitive legends that you battle online are hacked.
     
    ArcticGlaceon said:
    Soul Dew comes with the Lati@s on the island.

    Uber usually means High Stats.
    Click to expand...

    you may want to rephrase that since by saying an uber is a pokemon with high stats is like saying all pokemon with good ivs and ev trained are all ubers an uber is a pokemon that has high BASE stats
     
    DeanoDance said:
    It is also possible to get the Soul Dew through Mystery Gift on PBR, I think.

    And the resons for said Pokémon being where they are are perfectly summed up by Raikazu; however he forgot to add that a tiny HP stat on Shuckle means it's defences are severely nerfed.
    Click to expand...
    Shuckle still maintains a 6% higher overall ability to specially defend than Cresselia, outside of Sandstorm that is. Shuckle's physically defensive ability is less than 1% lower than Forretress's, which means it's ability to dual wall is still pretty good. It's just that it's potential capabilities are unthreatening and basically set-up bait for other Pokemon.
    ---

    Lemme say this:
    Tiers of a Pokemon are decided upon a Pokemon's true potential as a battler. There is an uber Pokemon with only a 405 Base Stat Total. Yet, it's still uber because it's ability to battle others remains superior to most. There is a UU Pokemon with a 580 Base Stat Total. Why? Because it's potential power and ability to fight is not strong enough. It's NOT based on stats, its NOT based on moves, it's NOT based on abilities. It is based on the potential threat that a Pokemon can put up, and how well it's best ability can be executed. Mainly, it's how its moves and abilities interact with eachother and put together a strategy of some sort or power. That's how tiers are decided.
     
    Ubers can be generally categorised as pokes which fulfill the following criterea:

    *Great Stats
    *Great Typing
    *Beneficial ability
    *Versatile movepool
    *Lack of counters in the below tier

    The last one's the most important one. If a poke is too strong for the below tier, it gets moved up. It can suck in the new tier as much all it likes, until the below metagame can cope with it then it stays and fails in this new tier (Examples include Reg Deoxys, Garchomp and a lot of the BL tier). So pokes that look good to start with- Shuckle for example, doesn't get uber. Shuckle may have impressive defences, but the powerful threats of OU compensate for that and laugh at his pitiful HP and lack of options.

    There's my two cents on the matter =]
     
    El Gofre said:
    Ubers can be generally categorised as pokes which fulfill the following criterea:

    *Great Stats
    *Great Typing
    *Beneficial ability
    *Versatile movepool
    *Lack of counters in the below tier

    The last one's the most important one. If a poke is too strong for the below tier, it gets moved up.[S-HIGHLIGHT] It can suck in the new tier as much all it likes, until the below metagame can cope with it then it stays and fails in this new tier [/S-HIGHLIGHT](Examples include Reg Deoxys, Garchomp and a lot of the BL tier). So pokes that look good to start with- Shuckle for example, doesn't get uber. Shuckle may have impressive defences, but the powerful threats of OU compensate for that and laugh at his pitiful HP and lack of options.

    There's my two cents on the matter =]
    Click to expand...
    The highlighted point is very important, but keep in mind that none of those "Uber Criteria" make it uber on it's own. Celebi has Great moves, Ability and stats, yet it's let down by a poor typing. Basically, those aspects can combine and if the pokemon proves to unbalanced for standard play, it is banned.
     
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