Ubuntu (Linux)

[Venia Silente]

There are reasons for Wine... unfortunately

Well, are you sure you want to move to Ubuntu? Gaming will be difficult on it, if you want to game.

Why do people assume that game == the latest expenditure of 3D superstereo surroundwoofer HD games that require joysticks with 12 buttons and a graphics card that won't yet be available in your country?
If you want to game, I mean truly game, most SNES and Play Station emulators work wonders on Linux. "Game" is not exactly an excuse to not move to a Linux environment, unless there is actually a compelling reason why you can't enjoy The Game 2 instead of The Game 3...

Unfortunately it is not fully customizable to do whatever we want it to do! I told to get me a glass of coca-cola in the console and yet I am still waiting to this day for said glass of coca-cola. But since you're using WINE to use some windows programs, why not just go back to windows and be a real user instead of having to rely on something that might work?

That's true, but there's a difference of degree between the customization as it is understood in a Windows system (oh I want this Aero-like skin in my Windows 3.11!!!!1eleventyone!+virus) and a Linux system (oh I want to run this script with Perl and have it pick me the window decorations from random social network bars then notofy me via mail\!\!\!\!eleventyone!.sh). I mean, truly, if you have a Linux system and have been waiting for the coca-cola for so long, why don't you just get the secret ingredient, compile, and say sudo make coca-cola?

Besides, there are (unfortunately) very valid reasons to run a Windows app from Wine. A Wine environment, when well configured, is very stable and resilent to damages, and can be made to switch states in a whim. Among other apps that run better under Wine than under Windows there's Firefox, Horas, the Encarta Encyclopedia, and Age of Empires 2. If a Windows app gets infected under Wine (it can happen), you can just, in the worst case scenario, rm -rf ~/.wine/ and start anew right off the bat with your salvaged data and Windows-specific files most of the time. Even then, viruses will only be able to do menial damage to a Linux installation -- just let them try to do any low-level access to imprint themselves on the MBR. If you are straceing your Wine installation, time to go for a coffe, sit and laugh. Your documents writable by you are still fair game for the viruses, true, but then again you opted in for the virus under Linux for something...

That said, I have to actually agree with Zet and pokejungle on the bottom of the matter: if you need Windows that badly, why not just use it? The more if it was already working. That way you'll be confining yourself to only one weak point (or 1/3, if you just used Linux) instead of two, since you'll have to dea with Windows issues and Linux issues.

 

[Archer]

Unfortunately it is not fully customizable to do whatever we want it to do! I told to get me a glass of coca-cola in the console and yet I am still waiting to this day for said glass of coca-cola.

You did it wrong. Add the repositories below and run the following command, afterwards.

deb http:/cocacola.com/repo/freedrinks/2/ karmic main

Sudo apt-get coke

Of course, your internet connection is going to have an impact on how long this takes, but keep in mind, mobile and satellite internet is going to disolve some of the bubbles, due to the bumpy ride.

I don't even bother with Wine in Linux. There are alternatives to most programs that are usually as good. Sadly, OpenOffice isn't up to scratch with MS Office 2007, although it's similar to 2003. When gaming, I just use Windows, it's pointless to do otherwise.

solovino, why would you run Firefox under wine, when it runs natively under linux? That said, Safari runs horribly, but that's what you get when you run a Mac browser ported to Windows and then translated to Linux code. Not that I'd use anything other than FF, aside from the lightning fast Epiphany, which is native to Gnome.

Viruses under Wine? That's why you run an antivirus under Wine, lol.

Oh, and you'll want a good internet connection to keep a Ubuntu up to date. It has more updates than Windows, and will be a pain without a decent net connection/DL limit.

 

[Venia Silente]

solovino, why would you run Firefox under wine, when it runs natively under linux?

Oh, just to smile at the weirdness that I just mentioned: the windows version runs better under Wine... than both the Windows version in Windows and the Linux version in Linux. That's true for Firefox 2, at least; I haven't tested with Firefox 3 but assuming a not very high plugin load, it may as well be the same case.

Actually, viruses is one of the reasons why I run my windows apps under a VirtualBox machine rather than Wine. Thanks to some recent changes in the image formats, it is very easy for me to back up a previously stated, known-to-work windows VM.

 

[pokejungle]

Chrome is on linux now too <3

 

[Archer]

Chrome is on linux now too <3

It was 6 months ago and I still don't like it. Epiphany is just so much better on Gnome.

 

[Team Rocket's Raichu]

You guys are mentioning if you want to use Windows programs, just use Windows. Well, I like to hack Pokemon games, and there is no tools for it on Linux, so I just mentioned WINE.

But I'm going to try it on an old computer like some of you suggested.

 

[Kombo Studio]

Ubuntu is a great OS. I don't think that there is a learning curve, or at least not one as great as for OSX or Windows. I believe Ubuntu is the most accessible and easy-to-use OS around.

 

[Archer]

Ubuntu is a great OS. I don't think that there is a learning curve, or at least not one as great as for OSX or Windows. I believe Ubuntu is the most accessible and easy-to-use OS around.

The simple stuff is easy. Like if you want to install a program that is already in the repository, then it's fine. But, for example, today, I was trying to get Avira working with Linux. I had to find and run a script as root to install the engine, then I had to compile sections of some other engine to get the second half of Avira to work. In the end, I got annoyed and put it off until another time.

Basically, normal stuff works, but stuff outside of what is accounted for usually becomes a ***** of a job or presents a huge learning curve. That said, especially with a massive distro like Ubuntu, you won't have to venture into the wilderness for much.

Clearly no-one liked my response to Zet's coke joke. =(

 

[Zet]

The simple stuff is easy. Like if you want to install a program that is already in the repository, then it's fine. But, for example, today, I was trying to get Avira working with Linux. I had to find and run a script as root to install the engine, then I had to compile sections of some other engine to get the second half of Avira to work. In the end, I got annoyed and put it off until another time.

Basically, normal stuff works, but stuff outside of what is accounted for usually becomes a ***** of a job or presents a huge learning curve. That said, especially with a massive distro like Ubuntu, you won't have to venture into the wilderness for much.

Clearly no-one liked my response to Zet's coke joke. =(

I think no-one responded because they didn't get it or they didn't see it.

 

[pokejungle]

I got it :p I just don't bother posting unless I have something to contribute to the actual discussion.

Thought there was a native Linux antivirus called CLAM or something :s

 

[twocows]

The simple stuff is easy. Like if you want to install a program that is already in the repository, then it's fine. But, for example, today, I was trying to get Avira working with Linux. I had to find and run a script as root to install the engine, then I had to compile sections of some other engine to get the second half of Avira to work. In the end, I got annoyed and put it off until another time.

Basically, normal stuff works, but stuff outside of what is accounted for usually becomes a ***** of a job or presents a huge learning curve. That said, especially with a massive distro like Ubuntu, you won't have to venture into the wilderness for much.

Clearly no-one liked my response to Zet's coke joke. =(

Why were you trying to put antivirus on Linux?

 

[.little monster]

Why were you trying to put antivirus on Linux?

Better safe than sorry, I suppose?

 

[Venia Silente]

Why were you [Archer] trying to put antivirus on Linux?

Well, if one is using Linux and expects to share files with Windows (l)users/systems, then it's far better to have an antivirus than not have it; let's not end up liable for other people's...um... misfortune.

Besides, Avast runs well under Linux. And with little help from Clamav, you'll only need the antivirus for on-demand scanning.

 

[twocows]

Better safe than sorry, I suppose?

Well, if one is using Linux and expects to share files with Windows (l)users/systems, then it's far better to have an antivirus than not have it; let's not end up liable for other people's...um... misfortune.

Besides, Avast runs well under Linux. And with little help from Clamav, you'll only need the antivirus for on-demand scanning.

I don't see the point. I imagine the Windows system has its own antivirus, and you're not going to get a virus on Linux unless you go out compiling everything you see and then some.

 

[Venia Silente]

Neither would I, but I dualboot. Don't want the chance of a virus slipping under the antivirus's sight and infecting the MBR or overwriting the AV itself because some particular file could go preloaded or it could have picked just the right virus from yesterday and I haven't updated the AV database ever since last month.

For anything else, it's just a commodity and an insurance against stupid lawyers.

 

[Zet]

That's why you should be sandboxing a browser in private mode for porn. :3

 

[Venia Silente]

As if I didn't do that already ... what? Oh, yeah, that's why one (someone else, mind) would... :D

Well, I technically sandbox my browsers for development. I have a VM purely for web testing, that has something like 4 versions of Firefox, 3 of Opera, 4 of Netscape, 1 of IE and 8 minor browsers installed. And the entire system resets to default settings on every boot. Maybe I'm overreacting a little...

But then again, it's so easy to set up with systems like Ubuntu and Fedora, I couldn't miss the chance...

 

[Immortal_one]

1) Is Ubuntu good?
I've found that Unix-based OS's are only good for running servers, networks, or other types of cloud computing. Unless you're just having fun, there's not too much use to putting it on a home computer. I used to have it on my desktop, but I uninstalled it because I found myself rarely using it. It was just taking up space on my hard drive.

2) Can programs that run on Windows run on Ubuntu?
A lot of programs do, like Skype and open office, but if you were wanting to run a game on Ubuntu, you'll be out of luck.

3) I heard about a program called W.I.N.E, that is said to run Windows programs. Does it really do that?
Yes, but as with any emulator, you won't get 100% performance as you would the real thing. You'll notice a lot of lag, and a few lost capabilities in a lot of programs.

4) If I don't like Ubuntu can I uninstall it where I get Windows Vista back without having to buy an upgrade disk?
You can dual-boot your drive, which means you can have your drive partitioned to keep one side Vista, and whatever ratio you choose for Ubuntu. The downside is that the two sides can't communicate, so you'll have to manually transfer your files over.

5) Any misc. stuff you want to tell me about Ubuntu?
Like I said, Ubuntu is good to run a server or a network, or even just to have fun with, but it's really not good to have as a sole operating system. Also, when I dual booted my desktop with it, I had a few display problems. It wouldn't fill my screen without appearing stretched. Also, Wifi is difficult to setup on Ubuntu, which really sucks. You'll probably have to use open office as your word processor, which is compatible with Microsoft Office, but isn't the best thing to have. A lot formatting gets screwed up in the transaction.

Overall, it's a good operating system, but it's not something to have by itself. You'll want to have Windows on your system as well.

 

[Archer]

I got it :p I just don't bother posting unless I have something to contribute to the actual discussion.

Thought there was a native Linux antivirus called CLAM or something :s

Yes, Clamwin. Yeah, it's just pathetic. Last time I checked it was only a scanner and it still had poor detection rates.

 

[Venia Silente]

I'm asumming you talk of your own experience only, Immortal_one...?

2) Can programs that run on Windows run on Ubuntu?
A lot of programs do, like Skype and open office, but if you were wanting to run a game on Ubuntu, you'll be out of luck.

Uh.... OpenOffice is intended to, since it is a multiplatform software.
As for games, I can play anything up to Super Nintendo games, sometimes N64 games perfectly; PS (and for some reason Megadrive) wit some issues; and Sim City 3000 (which has an official Linux port), Age of Empires II and Driv3r in my Fedora installation with no actual gameplay issues. I wouldn't call that "out of luck". Some of my friends can almost smoothly run Medal of Honor games. I guess it depends on the system (both hardware and software) you have installed.

3) I heard about a program called W.I.N.E, that is said to run Windows programs. Does it really do that?
Yes, but as with any emulator, you won't get 100% performance as you would the real thing. You'll notice a lot of lag, and a few lost capabilities in a lot of programs.

Well... it isn't an emulator, it is a compatibility layer; that means it will only "masquerade" system abilities to be Windows-like. In fact, one can get far better performance and compatibitlity from Wine by using one's Windows installed DLLs for some tasks, at the cost of stability, of course. I do that with GDI and DirectDraw, which solved some of my minor issues with Age of Empires II like the always black letters. The lag for anything media related is still a beatch, though...

4) If I don't like Ubuntu can I uninstall it where I get Windows Vista back without having to buy an upgrade disk?
You can dual-boot your drive, which means you can have your drive partitioned to keep one side Vista, and whatever ratio you choose for Ubuntu. The downside is that the two sides can't communicate, so you'll have to manually transfer your files over.

...Or you could just have preplanned your partitioning and leave one separate "data" partition to be used by both Windows and Linux (and how many extra OSes you want to install), avoiding the whole issue.
Or having used a Wubi install if you just wanted to "try it".

Sometimes, just preplanning an important operation saves one from a lot of headaches and actually makes things enjoyable and good enough to last.

That said, Linux just isn't for everyone. It requires one to get off the "Windows" mindset that we're unfortunately conditioned with since after birth like dogs, but that's a good thing. And it requires one to have volition to learn about a system, not "just use it". It works wonders as a desktop system... so long as you like your desktop to be an expanding adventure.

Yes, Clamwin. Yeah, it's just pathetic. Last time I checked it was only a scanner and it still had poor detection rates.

ClamWin is the Windows version. Clamav is the antivirus proper. And maybe you did that check over nine months ago; last I installed, it does incorporate a daemon as well as the on-demand scanner. Still not very good due to the poor database, but there are enough advantages to using an antivirus fro the Linux side and most of the viruses I can find are stopped by my proxy anyways that right now I can't care.