Was Ash a jerk in his gym fight with Brock?

[User Anon 1848]

If you're wondering why I'm bringing up such an old fight in 2016 it's because I've started re-watching the anime and this really took me by surprise since Ash's jerkiness went over my head as a kid. Before watching this episode I thought Misty was the only jerk of the group.

For those who don't remember what happened Brock clearly had Ash's Pikachu beat without hope yet he showed Ash's Pikachu mercy and correctly stated that there was no point in continuing the fight since Pikachu was completely defenceless and stuck in Onix's bind. Then Ash took advantage of the sprinklers that went off in order to get a cheap win after Brock had his Onyx release Pikachu from his grip. Not only was that a dick move on Ash's part but it also goes against his mantra of wanting to prove he's the best trainer/future Pokemon master. Ash accepting so many free gym badges in later episodes is another contradiction to his character. Even if he does accept them somewhat reluctantly.

You can't help but feel bad for Brock. As Ash saw the guy raises his siblings on his own after his parents left them, he tries to put on a tough exterior as a Gym Leader while still showing his compassionate side when it counts only to get exploited by a newbie brat who lucks his way through life. Brock should have poisoned his food and gave his Pokemon away to a more competent trainer while he had the chance.

Oh and screw Misty too for actually giving Ash the idea lol.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

If it's of any consolation, Ash forfeited the match afterwards, and specifically cited the aforementioned cheap win as his reason why.

That said, I can name a few times where Ash was definitely a jerk in the original season, like Ash's insensitiveness to the fact that Misty was utterly terrified of bugs while celebrating that he caught Caterpie, not to mention the fact that he had Caterpie fight against Pidgeotto and nearly got him turned to breakfast as a result and then gloated how he was the greatest when he caught Pidgeotto by using Pikachu. Or how about the time where Ash played a really bad prank when on their way to Lavender Town claiming he "felt like a ghost himself" right after Brock, for perfectly justified reasons, ended up screaming after he got shocked from grabbing Pikachu's tail by mistake.

 

[L'Belle]

Honestly, I think Ash is not a jerk at all. I didn't feel bad for Brock at all. It was kind of a silly gym battle anyway..

 

[Palamon]

Honestly, I don't think "jerk" is the correct correlation, honestly. Arrogant and inconsiderate to other's feeling, maybe, but not an outright jerk, at least, not to the Misty level. Also, you do realize, that this was Ash's first Gym Battle, correct? He had no idea what he was doing. Anyway, his arrogance and hothead affected his behavior, "jerk" doesn't seem like the correct word here.

Also, no. Brock should not have poisoned his food. You're being a little ridiculous.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

Honestly, I don't think "jerk" is the correct correlation, honestly. Arrogant and inconsiderate to other's feeling, maybe, but not an outright jerk, at least, not to the Misty level. Also, you do realize, that this was Ash's first Gym Battle, correct? He had no idea what he was doing. Anyway, his arrogance and hothead affected his behavior, "jerk" doesn't seem like the correct word here.

Also, no. Brock should not have poisoned his food. You're being a little ridiculous.

Not sure I'd call Misty a jerk, to be honest. Jessie seems to qualify better in that department, not to mention Naru Narusegawa from Love Hina (really, just watch all the scenes where Naru beats up and downright nearly kills Keitaru just because the latter merely looks at her and the girls the wrong way, or doing things that were purely accidental. You'd be tempted to call the domestic abuse hotline and notify them of Naru's behavior to Keitaru because of it even if she was fictional. And SHE'S the one he ended up marrying.). In fact, honestly, I actually thought a lot of Misty's actions WERE reasonable, even if they do need work.

 

[Famon]

Not really !
Ash was pretty much like any 10 year old boy ! By definition , We can also call Ben Tennyson from Ben 10 a jerk from acting like child.
Plus , Brock was somewhat rude and cold when Ash met him ! He wasn't the sweet mature Brotherly mentor that chase after Woman when Ash met him for the 1st time.

 

[Kurosaki]

AHAhahaha, I love it. Someone finally touched on this.

Ash was a jerk sometimes early on, though that's kinda changed over time, but it's true that most people would not take advantage of a sprinkler system to help them win a gym battle. There's a reason most of us try to train a water type for that gym battle, and aren't like "nah man i'll just trigger the sprinkler system or break a water pipe and drown dat shit".

Also, I feel like nowadays he's a respectable enough trainer that he wouldn't use such a method anymore.

Originally, I think they tried to play it off as him being creative with his surroundings, but also it seems like something that should not be allowed. Plus, nothing like that has ever happened since then.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

AHAhahaha, I love it. Someone finally touched on this.

Ash was a jerk sometimes early on, though that's kinda changed over time, but it's true that most people would not take advantage of a sprinkler system to help them win a gym battle. There's a reason most of us try to train a water type for that gym battle, and aren't like "nah man i'll just trigger the sprinkler system or break a water pipe and drown dat ****".

Also, I feel like nowadays he's a respectable enough trainer that he wouldn't use such a method anymore.

Originally, I think they tried to play it off as him being creative with his surroundings, but also it seems like something that should not be allowed. Plus, nothing like that has ever happened since then.

If it's of any consolation, again, Ash forfeited the match shortly afterward and even cited that cheap win regarding the sprinklers as being his reason for doing so. Besides, the setting off of the sprinkler system was completely accidental (Pikachu's steroid-tronics basically ended up hitting part of the gym and setting it on fire, and eventually some of the sparks came into contact with the sprinkler system).

 

[Iceshadow3317]

To be honest, Ash was a massive jerk through Kanto and Johto and all the gym battles sucked anyway during the Kanto. He didn't really earn any of his badges fairly. For the most part, they were just given to him.

I mean was it really fair for Ash to use Charizard against Cassie, a new trainer, and completely wiped the floor with her.

 

[Kurosaki]

If it's of any consolation, again, Ash forfeited the match shortly afterward and even cited that cheap win regarding the sprinklers as being his reason for doing so. Besides, the setting off of the sprinkler system was completely accidental (Pikachu's steroid-tronics basically ended up hitting part of the gym and setting it on fire, and eventually some of the sparks came into contact with the sprinkler system).

Did he? I do remember he felt a little bad about it or something, but in all honestly it's not a stretch for me to say that I have not seen that episode since Kanto stopped airing on TV. /dies

Though, he still used it to his advantage, and let Pikachu affect Onix in that way. I feel like if that were to happen in newer episodes, he wouldn't even think about doing something like that. He's definitely more thoughtful in that way now.

To be honest, Ash was a massive jerk through Kanto and Johto and all the gym battles sucked anyway during the Kanto. He didn't really earn any of his badges fairly. For the most part, they were just given to him.

I mean was it really fair for Ash to use Charizard against Cassie, a new trainer, and completely wiped the floor with her.

Yeees, I like his current gym battles so much more. They're actual, decent battles most of the time. I was talking with my bf about that the other night, and we got onto the topic of Ash. The first thing out of his mouth was how much of a jerk he was in the first two series in comparison to later ones. x-x

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

To be honest, Ash was a massive jerk through Kanto and Johto and all the gym battles sucked anyway during the Kanto. He didn't really earn any of his badges fairly. For the most part, they were just given to him.

I mean was it really fair for Ash to use Charizard against Cassie, a new trainer, and completely wiped the floor with her.

Technically, only half of the Kanto episodes were simply "given" to Ash. That being Brock, Misty's sisters, Sabrina, and Erika. The other half DID have Ash winning them fairly (Lt. Surge, Koga, Blaine, heck, even Viridian Gym, where it's pretty obvious that Ash actually DID earn the Earth Badge and, if anything, it was Team Rocket who was being unfair by withholding the badge despite his obviously proving himself worthy by beating them in conflict, and based on what Ash said and even what Jessie said in response, what Team Rocket did was actually against the rules of being a Gym Leader and most likely was not sanctioned by the Pokémon League.). And even with the half that weren't earned by beating them in battle, they also were earned via some heroics and all of that (and to be fair, Misty herself didn't exactly support her sisters simply handing Ash the badge). Probably the closest it's gotten to Ash actually being given the badges in the most literal term possible was with Misty's sisters, and Misty pretty quickly put a stop to it and challenged him in their stead.

I do see your point there, though, he did come across as a massive jerk many times (in fact, I have to admit, I actually had to agree with Misty on quite a few of her criticisms towards Ash early on, including her point about how Ash didn't exactly earn the badges he got.). That being said, while Ash himself may have gotten better as a character in AG onward, his skills probably worsened (DP and possibly XY aside, that is, though the latter has to wait until the Kalos league to determine whether he truly got better. If he did significantly better than even Sinnoh, certainly Unova in either case, we can definitely say he got better, but if he doesn't, well, we're going to have to call it a tie.), and it certainly doesn't help that Hoenn's gym leaders and Unova's gym leaders were downright pathetic, coming far too close to being bumbling like Team Rocket in Episode 3. Honestly, I'd rather deal with Ash simply being handed his badges like in Kanto as long as it at LEAST made the Gym Leaders out to be difficult rather than being very easily defeated by rookies, since quite frankly, I have zero respect for those who manage to lose to Pokémon a trainer just recently caught. At least DP had the sense to actually HAVE Ash being challenged regarding his rookie team and require several retries against some of the Gym Leaders (granted, I would have preferred it if Pikachu didn't lose to many of them especially when he's supposed to be way above their pay grade by that point due to taking out Regice single-handedly, but oh well, at least the Sinnoh Gym Leaders didn't lose to rookies on the first try).

Did he? I do remember he felt a little bad about it or something, but in all honestly it's not a stretch for me to say that I have not seen that episode since Kanto stopped airing on TV. /dies

Though, he still used it to his advantage, and let Pikachu affect Onix in that way. I feel like if that were to happen in newer episodes, he wouldn't even think about doing something like that. He's definitely more thoughtful in that way now.

I see your point. And yeah, Ash DID in fact forfeit after the match. I believe he told Pikachu to return, with Brock then demanding he finish his match. Ash then pointed out that the sprinklers were the only reason he gained the advantage, and felt he really didn't deserve that win through that manner. That's my memory of the episode, and I usually have a pretty good memory of these things.

 

[Guest123_x1]

And yeah, Ash DID in fact forfeit after the match. I believe he told Pikachu to return, with Brock then demanding he finish his match. Ash then pointed out that the sprinklers were the only reason he gained the advantage, and felt he really didn't deserve that win through that manner. That's my memory of the episode, and I usually have a pretty good memory of these things.

I always thought that Ash cheated when the fire sprinklers went off and defeated Brock's Onix in the process. At that point, Misty told Ash the truth that Rock is weak to Water, thereby reinforcing that he should have accepted her help in the first place. Before his first match with Brock, Ash arrogantly told Misty that he didn't need her help, and Misty responded by telling him there was no way he was going to beat Brock otherwise.

As for some of the other Gym battles and Ash winning those badges solely because the Gym Leaders in question felt sorry for him, that was a fact Misty reminded him of often during their time in Kanto, even though Ash tried to argue otherwise.