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5th Gen Were the B2W2 games really better than BW?

Ho-Oh

used Sacred Fire!
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    • Seen Jul 1, 2023
    So everyone says "oh the B2W2 games are amaaaazzzzinggg" but would the games be anywhere near as good if they were standalone games? BW could stand up on its own. People expected a sequel but would have been happy with just that - they didn't consider that the extra features COULD exist. For most people the story, the graphics and the music was enough to blow their minds. But then you look at B2W2... all these amazing new things and the older Pokemon we loved. But other than being an improvement on BW, were they really anything else other than just a fancy remake/retelling?

    What do you guys think? Am I crazy (yes but that's irrelevant) or are B2W2 really no better than BW?
     
    I think the biggest improvement of BW2 was the bigger post-game, something that is important for almost every Pok?mon fan. BW had a really lacking one comparing that to BW2 makes the latter seem much better. BW2, like you said, has some awesome upgrades we didn't even thought could happen, and I think that's part of why BW2 blew people's minds more than the first games. The addition of non-Gen V Pok?mon in the main game was also a major plus for many; it became a bit more 'familiar'. But I do agree that BW2 wouldn't have been as awesome as it is if it weren't for its predecessors already being great to begin with.
     
    Yes, absolutely, and I don't really think you even have to go that far to make a case for it. The sheer amount of content, things to do, experimental ideas, and lessons learned from BW1 is staggering, and to be honest, had that been BW rather than a sequel I think it would have been better received if only because (despite the novelty of seeing what's changed overtime being gone), it'd be your first trek through a new region. And when you compound all of that, I can't much see why it'd be difficult to see how much of an improvement it is over the original, even if it were, in an alternate universe, its stand-in rather than its sequel.
     
    Yeah Black & White had an appalling post-game. I liked that they had a re-strengthened Elite Four but there was nowhere to actually train - you had to grind a lot. I mean, I liked most of the areas - they were really unique, the polar opposite of DP's post-game having a supposedly "tropical" area to the north of the snowy area (weird) with the exact same trees, buildings etc. but they were also quite boring.

    I for one wasn't particularly happy with the expanded Pok?dex - I really liked how isolated from other regions Unova felt. That being said, finally getting to use Zangoose was pretty cool, I was gutted when I realised I couldn't get it in Emerald or any of my other games before the post-game sections.

    B2W2's story would have seemed weird as a stand-alone, there's literally no other way it worked than as a sequel but at the same time, all the increased features would still make them one of the better games in the series.
     
    Definitly. Black 2 and White 2 are my favourite pok?mon games. They improved on so much I feel.
     
    I'm going to play Devil's Advocate and argue that from a narrative perspective there is some cause for question here as to whether Black 2/White 2 were actually better. I think in terms of gameplay and content, it's fairly easy to argue in favour of the sequels being better than the originals, but in terms of "story" content - and how I loathe to use that word in conjunction with Pokemon - I'd actually argue against it.

    Now, I in no way think the narrative of either of the Gen V games is acceptable, or even noteworthy. In any other JRPG it would have been criticised as utter drivel and laughed right out of the market; it owes its success solely to the Pokemon name (and the repetetive nature of the games, so that every minor difference is noted and blown way out of proportion by the fans) and not through any creativity. It's pitiful even by 90s standards, which Nintendo seem to hold to religiously when it comes to trying to give their games an actual plot. That said, sequels usually recycle elements from the originals, and there was very little to differentiate B2/W2's story, really. A lot of key characters were reduced to mere cameos - and they were already NPCs!- and there was generally very little feel that this was actually a sequel in the truest sense, as you were playing with an entirely different character and the major players from the last game had moved on with their lives. THEY certainly didn't need a sequel.

    There was no real sense of continuity or purpose, and it was a lot weaker for it. Had we visited some more new areas, or had the NPCs from the previous game returned in some meaningful form more often, then perhaps it might have been able to justify itself. This was very much an unnecessary sequel in that, bad as it was, Black/White had a story with an ending. They didn't NEED a sequel. There were no real loose ends to tie up, or things that needed to be explored, and as a result the entire thing was even more banal and pathetic than usual. It in no way justified its very existence from a purely narrative standpoint, as it had nothing left to narrate.

    In terms of content, I would say yes, absolutely. But in terms of narrative? These games weren't needed, and they suffered for it.
     
    Not that I'm saying anything new, but.....gameplay/content-wise, B2W2 are clearly a step up from Black/White. This is obvious.

    Story-wise though, not really. I think that having a sequel boosts a bit the overall story of Gen 5, but B2/W2's story is kinda weaker compared to B/W's (and even then, Pokemon stories in general are not super ultra amazing).
     
    I personally like both games equally, but gameplay-wise B2/W2 are shown to be the superior games. The expanded Unova Dex, and huge amount of postgame content are a reason why these games are highly appreciated and have a lot of replay value to them.

    B2/W2's story taking place two years after the events of B/W's story also made a lot of sense for this sequel, considering that B2/W2 were released two years after B/W (at least in Japan) in real life as well.
     
    Uhm... Honestly, while Black and White 2 are fantastic games, they're really nothing without Black and White. Playing BW2 as a standalone game just feels like starting a movie from the halfway point.
    I love everything that BW2 has done, but they really can't be played without experiencing BW first.
     
    Personally I prefer the story and vibe from the original games. The sequels may have more post-game content but for the overall experience I'd still rate the original games higher.

    It still feels fresh whenever I go back to playing Black or White because it's purely 5th gen Pokemon that are available during the storyline. Which is something no other games have done. (Gen 1 doesn't count :p)
     
    I liked BW 2 better as I really enjoyed the World Tournament and being able to catch pokemon from previous generations
     
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