What remake would you like to see next?

[Ice1]

I want them to release Z or XY2, and we can maybe postpone gen VII by a year and do FR/LG. I'd love to have a DP remake, but I think the jump between gen IV and gen VI isn't that big as the jump between I and III. I think it's better to wait for Gen VII. But when do they Very Diamond and Very Pearl, I want to see a Lung Gold and Liver Silver too.

 

[NotThatOneAgain]

An extremely outdated remake. Yes, many of us don't want to face it, but even remakes, themselves, will eventually become obsolete. When DPP become outdated enough to warrant remakes, guess which other games will, too? There's just no avoiding it, and skipping over Kanto/Johto to remake newer games won't do anything but piss off and alienate older fans (ie. those of us who came into the franchise in the Pokémania Era).

Outdated in terms of what? I don't agree at all. Just because a game isn't blurry 3D, doesn't unqualify it as a bad game. RSE and FR/LG has dated very well, I think. The graphics is sharp and crisp. No need for yet another remake.

 

[Mago Luis]

I would like to see Diamond and Pearl remakes next, though they likely won't happen for a few years. Besides the new mechanics, I would expect the games to play faster than the originals.

They could also introduce new forms for Dialga and Palkia. Similar to Giratina's Origin Forme, and to how ORAS introduced new forms for the mascots of the remade games. Maybe we could get a chance to enter Dialga and Palkia's worlds.

And if they have something similar to the Delta Episode, they could explore how the universes and timelines work. A sort of follow-up to the idea of multiple worlds that Zinnia introduced us to in ORAS. The main game's story already deals with the creation of a new universe, and has us meet Pokémon with the required powers for that, so an additional story that tells us a bit more about the subject would seem fitting to me. It could also feature Giratina in some way, like how the Delta Episode featured Rayquaza.

On that last point: with all the other legendary Pokémon the originals had, these games could end up with a good amount of postgame content, if those Pokémon are given some stories. I'm thinking of Heatran-length sub quests, at least for Cresselia and Regigigas. Maybe the lake trio could get something similar as well, though that wouldn't necessarily be postgame.

Lastly, since ORAS made Deoxys available through regular gameplay, these games could do that for some of Generation IV's event Pokémon. Maybe Darkrai could be catchable in an expansion of Cresselia's story, or Arceus as part of a Delta Episode equivalent.

 

[BettyNewbie]

Outdated in terms of what? I don't agree at all. Just because a game isn't blurry 3D, doesn't unqualify it as a bad game. RSE and FR/LG has dated very well, I think. The graphics is sharp and crisp. No need for yet another remake.

Why do you think ORAS exist if Gen 3 isn't considered outdated? GF could've just as easily put RSE on the Wii U Virtual Console like the other GBA games, and yet, they didn't.

And, there are a lot of things that Gen 3 is missing besides 3D graphics:
- A P/S Split
- More than 50 TMs
- Varied Pokémon movepools
- Day/Night
- Sprites that aren't small, wonky, and inaccurately colored
- Every new evolution and pre-evolution introduced since Gen 4
- 335 of the total National Dex (as of Gen 6)
- Every Ability introduced since Gen 4
- Fairy types
- Mega Evolutions
- Smarter AI
- Roamers that don't have bad IVs (except Emerald)
- Gym Leader rematches (except Emerald)
- E4 rematches (except FRLG)
- A more fleshed-out story
- Playability on any handheld released since the DSi

And, then, you have the many things FRLG, specifically, are missing because of GF's insistence on keeping things "faithful":
- Any kind of clock (and thus, Espeon and Umbreon)
- A reliable source of Berries
- An unselected PC that still exists as a secondary rival
- A regional device like the Pokégear or Pokénav
- Breeding before the E4
- Post-Gen 1 pre/evos before the E4
- Post-Gen 1 Pokémon, in general, before the E4 (even through trading)
- Any kind of side activity like Contests or the Pokéathlon

No, this doesn't necessarily make them bad games, and nothing's stopping you from enjoying them (You realize that you're speaking to someone who still loves to play the old 8-bit games, right?), but it does make them very outdated and thus, unplayable for many people.

 

[Cerberus87]

Betty, I have no idea why you care so much about Berries when their biggest use is in competitive and you hate competitive. Even then, back in 3rd gen the most used Berries in competitive could only be accessed in the Orre games. Ruby and Sapphire only had the usual stuff like Oran, Chesto, Leppa and the contest-specific Berries, and I'd much rather use a Full Heal than spend a Berry on my Pokémon, especially because the HP-healing Berries lose their usefulness very quickly.

FRLG didn't have Berry Trees but at least you could find Berries in the game. What about 5th gen then, the good Berries were DW-exclusive and you could keep a Berry farm in the DW, but now the DW doesn't exist anymore! Worse situation than FRLG I'd say.

Outdated in terms of what? I don't agree at all. Just because a game isn't blurry 3D, doesn't unqualify it as a bad game. RSE and FR/LG has dated very well, I think. The graphics is sharp and crisp. No need for yet another remake.

If you play on VBA-M the standard settings use that shitty bilinear filter that makes them look extremely blurry. I love abusing certain filters, though. :P

Ideally you should play either on a GBA SP, a DS Lite or RetroArch since RetroArch has very cool filters to simulate the GBA screen.

 

[mew_nani]

Outdated in terms of what? I don't agree at all. Just because a game isn't blurry 3D, doesn't unqualify it as a bad game. RSE and FR/LG has dated very well, I think. The graphics is sharp and crisp. No need for yet another remake.

Firered and Leafgreen aren't outdated because they're 2D and don't have a P/S split. They're outdated because unless you can track down a GBA or a DS Lite they're unplayable without an emulator. You can't play GBA games on a DS anymore, and thus they need a remake so you don't need to dig up a GBA just to go to Kanto for the first time.

 

[BettyNewbie]

They're outdated because unless you can track down a GBA or a DS Lite they're unplayable without an emulator. You can't play GBA games on a DS anymore, and thus they need a remake so you don't need to dig up a GBA just to go to Kanto for the first time.

Exactly. The fact that you need either obsolete hardware or a less-than-legal ROM download to even play Gen 1 is, alone, a good enough reason to remake it.

 

[Dereck_S]

I've been playing pokemon since red/blue like a lot of people here have. With that being said I understand why some people would rather not revisit kanto, personally I love the idea of a remake despite having LG/FR but at some point newer fans without that same nostalgia for the region would probably rather see D/P/Pt remade which makes sense, too (despite those three being my least favorite games) any who I think for the old fans it would be nice to see just a yellow remake not so much a GIANT deal like when they remade gold and silver, just sort of sneak it in there before they remake D/P/Pt, i'd totally be down with that! (although I'd still much rather just see red/blue)

TL;DR: Yellow remake before gen 4

 

[NotThatOneAgain]

Firered and Leafgreen aren't outdated because they're 2D and don't have a P/S split. They're outdated because unless you can track down a GBA or a DS Lite they're unplayable without an emulator. You can't play GBA games on a DS anymore, and thus they need a remake so you don't need to dig up a GBA just to go to Kanto for the first time.

Interesting point. But with that argument, GF will have to create remakes in-finitum for every new console that is being released. And for that reason... I'm out. :P

Seriously, if "the new technology" and older mediums going extinct is the only real issue here, why bother with remakes, why not just port the old game to the new console? Problem solved. No need for remakes if the older games holds up well on their own.

 

[mew_nani]

Interesting point. But with that argument, GF will have to create remakes in-finitum for every new console that is being released. And for that reason... I'm out. :P

Seriously, if "the new technology" and older mediums going extinct is the only real issue here, why bother with remakes, why not just port the old game to the new console? Problem solved. No need for remakes if the older games holds up well on their own.

Well because also they want to make it possible to get every Pokemon in the Pokedex. It's why Firered and Leafgreen were even made; you couldn't transfer Pokemon from the GB games, and thus if you had Ruby and Sapphire you couldn't get all the Pokemon.

With that said though, at the moment there isn't really too big a demand for the others because you can still play them on a DS. Maybe the multiplayer aspect is shot, but the games themselves are still functional. The only things they're missing are the later Pokemon, the Fairy Type, and Mega Evolution.

 

[Pendraflare]

Betty, I have no idea why you care so much about Berries when their biggest use is in competitive and you hate competitive. Even then, back in 3rd gen the most used Berries in competitive could only be accessed in the Orre games. Ruby and Sapphire only had the usual stuff like Oran, Chesto, Leppa and the contest-specific Berries, and I'd much rather use a Full Heal than spend a Berry on my Pokémon, especially because the HP-healing Berries lose their usefulness very quickly.

Are you sure that Berries are most important in competitive? Because the only berries I know of that really get much use there are a few of the type reducing berries, and Lum Berries sometimes on Dragon Dance users. I think they get more use in-game, at least the status healing ones.

 

[Cerberus87]

Are you sure that Berries are most important in competitive? Because the only berries I know of that really get much use there are a few of the type reducing berries, and Lum Berries sometimes on Dragon Dance users. I think they get more use in-game, at least the status healing ones.

Back in RSE era they used a lot of the stat berries.

I've never bothered with berries during my playthroughs. Much more convenient to buy Full Heals and Full Restores. The only berries I'd use are the Leppa Berries because PP healing items are rare and limited.

 

[BettyNewbie]

I've never bothered with berries during my playthroughs. Much more convenient to buy Full Heals and Full Restores. The only berries I'd use are the Leppa Berries because PP healing items are rare and limited.

Well, to be technical, Full Restores aren't that practical, either, because they're quite expensive. :P Hyper Potions + Full Heals will usually do the trick. Earlier in the game, Lemonades are amazing, healing more than Super Potions while only costing half as much.

Status Berries aren't bad to have in the early game when Full Heals are unavailable and the individual status healers can easily stretch your budget thin. The EV-lowering Berries can also have a use if you want your in-game team to have good EV spreads. And, even if you don't use Berries at all, not everyone plays the same way as you do.

 

[Cerberus87]

Well, to be technical, Full Restores aren't that practical, either, because they're quite expensive. :P Hyper Potions + Full Heals will usually do the trick. Earlier in the game, Lemonades are amazing, healing more than Super Potions while only costing half as much.

Status Berries aren't bad to have in the early game when Full Heals are unavailable and the individual status healers can easily stretch your budget thin. The EV-lowering Berries can also have a use if you want your in-game team to have good EV spreads. And, even if you don't use Berries at all, not everyone plays the same way as you do.

By the time you can buy Full Restores (after the 8th badge in the newer games), you already have enough money to buy tons of them. Besides, in battle Full Restores are faster than item combinations. Also why I prefer Revival Herbs instead of Revive + Potion despite the happiness penalty.

Early game you only really need antidotes (which are the cheapest healing items) and on rare occasions a Parlyz Heal. The newer games even made poison weaker by removing its overworld effect.

EV-reducing berries are impractical. You need lots of them to correct wrong spreads in all your Pokémon. Getting lots of them is, of course, a hard task, because you need to, like, plant and grow them. Besides, in all of the games starting with 3rd gen (and I'd argue even 2nd gen with the advent of egg moves), you most certainly aren't using your in-game Pokémon in competitive battling.

I think the only time I've used berries in-game was to feed Moomoo in GSC and HGSS, and very rarely a Leppa Berry to restore PP when I was far away from a PC. They're really more meant for competitive. It's unwise to waste Lum Berries in-game, for example, as they're rare and take long to grow.

The way I play is the way I've seen most people play. Low access to berries is a VERY minor drawback of FRLG. It's so minor, it doesn't spoil the game in any way. The original game wasn't even designed with berries in mind.

 

[BettyNewbie]

By the time you can buy Full Restores (after the 8th badge in the newer games), you already have enough money to buy tons of them. Besides, in battle Full Restores are faster than item combinations.

Not necessarily, and even then, you may want to save your money for other things. I certainly don't like to walk around broke in the late game.

Also why I prefer Revival Herbs instead of Revive + Potion despite the happiness penalty.

I never use Revives, because I'd rather my Pokémon not faint in the first place. (Blame nuzlockes for that.) I'd also never willingly make them unhappy.

Besides, in all of the games starting with 3rd gen (and I'd argue even 2nd gen with the advent of egg moves), you most certainly aren't using your in-game Pokémon in competitive battling.

And, you don't see a PROBLEM with that? Especially, when competitve is so heavily pushed nowadays?

They're really more meant for competitive.

Even the status-healing berries? Or, regular old Oran Berries?

The way I play is the way I've seen most people play.

Have quantifiable proof? Yeah, I thought so. :rolleyes2:

The original game wasn't even designed with berries in mind.

The original RBY also had a singular Special stat, Crit mechanics that were based on Speed, item-duplicating glitches, and a Bag that only held 20 items.

 

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

Well Kanto will likely keep it's bad soil. Note that it's impossible to grow berries in the industrial regions (Kanto and Unova) as they have bad soil (one of the reasons New England is more industrial compared to the midwest and the South is that compared to those two regions it's soil is bad...so the economy of the region focused on making raw goods into textiles and other things, thus cities popped up), and oddly Johto...if they add berries to any region it should be Johto.

 

[Cerberus87]

Not necessarily, and even then, you may want to save your money for other things. I certainly don't like to walk around broke in the late game.

I usually only buy Full Restores for the Elite Four.

I never use Revives, because I'd rather my Pokémon not faint in the first place. (Blame nuzlockes for that.) I'd also never willingly make them unhappy.

Well, it happens.

It's not often I have to use Revival Herbs, though. However, since a Pokémon's performance isn't affected by happiness bar a handful of moves (which is actually a flaw of the games), I don't mind it too much. Of course, if you played GSC and bought herbal medicine with the old lady in Goldenrod, you'll have a different opinion of it, since she was a bit shady.

And, you don't see a PROBLEM with that? Especially, when competitve is so heavily pushed nowadays?

It's a problem but one that's not easy to solve. From its inception, Pokémon has had IVs, for example. A Pokémon with poor IVs, especially in Speed, is at a disadvantage. Then they added breeding in 2nd gen, which would be useless if you could just catch a strong Pokémon in the wild, so they added egg moves as an incentive. In general, the current stat system exists to promote breeding.

You have an easier way of resetting EVs in 6th gen with Super Training.

Even the status-healing berries? Or, regular old Oran Berries?

Yep.

If you play Little Cup with item clause, Oran Berries can be quite useful! Oran Berries are the worst healing item in the game, their saving grace is to be able to be used without a command. Even in-game, you'd never really use Oran Berries unless you were about to fight a gym leader or another similar opponent, which is the exception that confirms the rule because no battles in-game are more similar to competitive than gym leader battles.

Chesto and Lum Berries are also useful in battle.

The other berries are less useful, but that's because there are better alternatives. Even in-game, they're situational and only useful against certain opponents.

Have quantifiable proof? Yeah, I thought so. :rolleyes2:

Plenty of LPers to support my cause. ^^

The original RBY also had a singular Special stat, Crit mechanics that were based on Speed, item-duplicating glitches, and a Bag that only held 20 items.

Apples and oranges, because FRLG don't "lack" berries. Lack of loamy soil is a "feature" of Kanto since 2nd gen.

 

[BettyNewbie]

I usually only buy Full Restores for the Elite Four.

Yeah, the final gauntlet of battles at the very end of the game. Of course, you insist on playing the game massively underleveled, so maybe you do need that much. :P

However, since a Pokémon's performance isn't affected by happiness bar a handful of moves (which is actually a flaw of the games), I don't mind it too much.

Just because you don't mind treating your Pokémon like crap doesn't mean others feel the same way.

It's a problem but one that's not easy to solve. From its inception, Pokémon has had IVs, for example. A Pokémon with poor IVs, especially in Speed, is at a disadvantage. Then they added breeding in 2nd gen, which would be useless if you could just catch a strong Pokémon in the wild, so they added egg moves as an incentive. In general, the current stat system exists to promote breeding.

And, in most of the games you can breed well before the postgame... Guess what the lone exception is?

If I'm going to put effort into raising up a team, they should be a good one. This was fairly easy to do before the invention of Natures and the 510 EV cap.

Not only is it antithetical to the games' message to trash them all for a "better" team after the E4, but it also makes the main game an entire waste. Why bother raising up a Pokémon if I'm not going to be able to do anything with it after the E4? Postgame options outside of battle facilities/competitive are limited in most of the games.

If you play Little Cup with item clause, Oran Berries can be quite useful! Oran Berries are the worst healing item in the game, their saving grace is to be able to be used without a command. Even in-game, you'd never really use Oran Berries unless you were about to fight a gym leader or another similar opponent, which is the exception that confirms the rule because no battles in-game are more similar to competitive than gym leader battles.

They're still outclassed by Sitrus Berries, though, not to mention the ever popular Leftovers.

I use Berries all the time when I play Gen 2, especially in the early game. They're free and convenient. Granted, Berries worked a bit differently in GSC than they did later on (a change I'm not all that fond of, admittedly), but the principle still applies.

And, besides, the games aren't specifically geared towards your tastes. Just because YOU never use Berries doesn't mean other people don't, and it's not fair to those people to remove Berries altogether just because others don't use them.

Plenty of LPers to support my cause. ^^

Still not hard proof, sorry. And, who's to say that "your way" is even the "best way"?

Apples and oranges, because FRLG don't "lack" berries. Lack of loamy soil is a "feature" of Kanto since 2nd gen.

Um, GSC Kanto had Berries last time I checked. It was FRLG that removed them and decided to make the region a wasteland devoid of modern gameplay innovation (of which Berries are one, like it or not) because of "nostalgia." (Too bad I already have a much better Berry-less Kanto on my Blue and Yellow carts. :P)

 

[Cerberus87]

Yeah, the final gauntlet of battles at the very end of the game. Of course, you insist on playing the game massively underleveled, so maybe you do need that much. :P

I don't play the games underleveled, but it's very hard to reach Blue's levels in RBY and FRLG.

It's called insurance. Also, I'm obsessed about keeping my Pokémon in their best shapes.

Just because you don't mind treating your Pokémon like crap doesn't mean others feel the same way.

Giving them herbal medicine isn't "treating them like crap". There's bitter medicine IRL and sometimes you have to take it. There's no real way to treat Pokémon like crap in the game, except for maybe making them faint a lot, but you most certainly can't do to them what Team Rocket does for example (which is why Frustration is a pointless move).

And, in most of the games you can breed well before the postgame... Guess what the lone exception is?

B2W2?

Besides, breeding slows you down during the game. No one bothers with it until the postgame. Even the level raising part of the daycare isn't very useful, because you can probably raise weak Pokémon like Magikarp faster by training them the regular way.

If I'm going to put effort into raising up a team, they should be a good one. This was fairly easy to do before the invention of Natures and the 510 EV cap.

IVs were still important. Maybe not in Stadium since the enemies had suboptimal IVs anyway.

Not only is it antithetical to the games' message to trash them all for a "better" team after the E4, but it also makes the main game an entire waste. Why bother raising up a Pokémon if I'm not going to be able to do anything with it after the E4? Postgame options outside of battle facilities/competitive are limited in most of the games.

It's the way the game is designed, unfortunately. To really have it your way GF would need to remove all variants that make certain Pokémon better than others, as well as developing a stat system more similar to other RPGs.

They're still outclassed by Sitrus Berries, though, not to mention the ever popular Leftovers.

Of course they are, they also lose to Berry Juice. Which is why I've mentioned "item clause".

I use Berries all the time when I play Gen 2, especially in the early game. They're free and convenient. Granted, Berries worked a bit differently in GSC than they did later on (a change I'm not all that fond of, admittedly), but the principle still applies.

And, besides, the games aren't specifically geared towards your tastes. Just because YOU never use Berries doesn't mean other people don't, and it's not fair to those people to remove Berries altogether just because others don't use them.

Berries aren't convenient in GSC. You only get one of them each day. Also why apricorn-made Poké Balls aren't convenient. You'll find yourself relying on manmade items more often than not.

Still not hard proof, sorry. And, who's to say that "your way" is even the "best way"?

The best way is what is fun to you. If you like to play with berries, fine. But their scarcity in FRLG doesn't ruin the experience. Unova had even less ways to get berries than FRLG and the 5th gen games are among my favorite.

Even in RSE, some berries are better than others. Chances are you aren't wasting your berry fields with poison-curing berries when you could be planting Lum Berries there instead.

Um, GSC Kanto had Berries last time I checked. It was FRLG that removed them and decided to make the region a wasteland devoid of modern gameplay innovation (of which Berries are one, like it or not) because of "nostalgia." (Too bad I already have a much better Berry-less Kanto on my Blue and Yellow carts. :P)

One or two Berry trees, that's definitely a lot! Johto had the bulk of berry and apricorn trees in GSC.

And FRLG didn't lack berries, either.

 

[BettyNewbie]

I don't play the games underleveled, but it's very hard to reach Blue's levels in RBY and FRLG.

Only because of a lack of good grinding areas and a slew of underleveled opponents before the E4. But, I, at least, try to reach L60, while you've said you charge in at the low 50s.

Giving them herbal medicine isn't "treating them like crap". There's bitter medicine IRL and sometimes you have to take it. There's no real way to treat Pokémon like crap in the game, except for maybe making them faint a lot, but you most certainly can't do to them what Team Rocket does for example (which is why Frustration is a pointless move).

You're willingly choosing a medicine that makes them unhappy over alternatives that don't simply because of cost... Yeah, that's pretty sketchy, I have to say.

B2W2?

Wrong. What remake have we been talking about?

Besides, breeding slows you down during the game. No one bothers with it until the postgame. Even the level raising part of the daycare isn't very useful, because you can probably raise weak Pokémon like Magikarp faster by training them the regular way.

Breeding isn't the quickest or funnest thing in the world, but I've done it during the main game in GSC just fine. (And, in that Gen, you only really need to breed for Egg Moves, anyways.)

IVs were still important. Maybe not in Stadium since the enemies had suboptimal IVs anyway.

But, there were only 15 back then, so you were statistically more likely to get, at least, decent ones, and plus, you could max out the EVs in every stat, anyways.

Of course, I did most of my competitive battling in Stadium to begin with. Much better than 6v6 multiplayer, IMO.

It's the way the game is designed, unfortunately. To really have it your way GF would need to remove all variants that make certain Pokémon better than others, as well as developing a stat system more similar to other RPGs.

The core issue is that Pokémon, by design, is not intended to be a competitive game, and yet, it accumulated a very large and very vocal competitive fanbase, so GF has found itself in recent years trying to cater the main games to a playstyle that they were never meant to have in the first place. (Otherwise, why would things like IVs and EVs be so hidden and complicated, or why would they place such an emphasis on "using your favorites" in the main story when competitive forces you to do the opposite?) "Gotta' catch 'em all" has taken a backseat to "Gotta' win 'em all."

Berries aren't convenient in GSC. You only get one of them each day.

But, you don't have to go through the trouble of planting and growing them, and they have names that, while unrealistic, are far more descriptive and easy to understand. ("PRZCureBerry" tells you exactly what the Berry does. "Cheri Berry" does not.)

The best way is what is fun to you. If you like to play with berries, fine.

Then, why do you seem to take so many issues with my playstyle?

But their scarcity in FRLG doesn't ruin the experience. Unova had even less ways to get berries than FRLG and the 5th gen games are among my favorite.

The difference is that BW/2 had a ton of other content to make up for the lack of Berries. FRLG, on the other hand, did not. (Berries were only one of many things those games were missing.)

One or two Berry trees, that's definitely a lot! Johto had the bulk of berry and apricorn trees in GSC.

Johto had the bulk of the content in GSC, period. Kanto was nothing more than a postgame area. (And, 1 or 2 is still larger than 0.)