What's happened to competitive Pokémon?

[Aduitt]

What's happened to competitive Pok?mon?

Throughout Pok?mon's history there have always been Pok?mon that were staple in any competitive team if you intended to win. The format that we are in however has made it so it is near impossible to play the game for fun without using a the stock standard Landorus, Tapu Koko, Hawlucha, Greninja, Mega-Lopunny and Toxapex. Commonly used Pok?mon are not a bad thing however. Take a look at Pok?mon such as Talonflame. With Talonflame's hidden ability 'gale wings' it could use priority roost, brave bird, acrobatics, defog, etc. Though it was formidable and used with almost every team in the format, it inspired people to use different and uncommon Pok?mon to try and take it down. Whether using a simple stealth rock or a bulky electric type, people found ways to counter it by finding Pok?mon the opposing team would not have a counter for. The format was interesting. It made people think outside the box and provide a way to take the win. This has happened time and again in Pok?mon's history but I feel as though the current format will remain for years to come. Please keep in mind that I am not saying "Ban all the OU Pok?mon!"

Somewhere down the line, we have lost the imagination that made this game for many, 'fun'. The game needs people to develop and create new strategies to survive yet somehow when suggesting new strategies it is seen as inferior, even a PU Pachirisu could be the decider as to who wins . Myself and others have tried again and again to make teams or find Pok?mon that can abuse the current 'best Pok?mon' and yet the format has still refused to change. As time has gone by and any shot of a new format has been banned to Uber most, including myself at times have given up trying to change the way people play.

I know that this is just a rant, but I should ask this question:
What pokemon do you think would be able to change the format as we know it?

 

[Aduitt]

Personally, I am surprised 'Lightning Rod' and 'Motor Drive' Pok?mon aren't as common as they should. things like Manetric and Electivire really get around Zapdos and Tapu-Koko when used right.

 

[Enpatsu Shakugan]

Smogon.

That's what. The concept of tiers in general. Any Pokemon can be good if used correctly. Tiers mean nothing.

I once swept a team of standard OUs with a Sudowoodo that everyone underestimated.


In any case, I like the way you think, man.

 

[Aduitt]

Smogon.

That's what. The concept of tiers in general. Any Pokemon can be good if used correctly. Tiers mean nothing.

I once swept a team of standard OUs with a Sudowoodo that everyone underestimated.


In any case, I like the way you think, man.

Thanks.

Bottom line is that OU Pok?mon are Over Used for a reason, they're solid Pok?mon.
However as time goes on it's almost funny to see the same team again and again. Same move set, same EV/IV distribution and nature.
Hopefully the format will change soon.... too many Tapu Kokos.....

 

[Nah]

It's something that's a part of literally every competitive metagame that has and will ever exist. The majority of people who are into competitive play are interested in one thing and one thing only: winning. Not so much having fun finding different stuff that can work. On top of that, the majority of those people lack the creativity and skill (or in some cases it's more the time and resources to be able to obtain those things) to try and to make work unconventional stuff. People who have the desire to and the skill to are not common. Competition is hard and I really don't blame people for doing what's natural and going for the path that offers less resistance.


But unrelated side-note: thread title made me think of how Garchomp used to be a staple of competitive singles and now it feels like it's gotten kinda rare in OU. It's kinda weird to me.

 

[HeroLinik]

However as time goes on it's almost funny to see the same team again and again. Same move set, same EV/IV distribution and nature.
Hopefully the format will change soon.... too many Tapu Kokos.....

To be honest, if everyone kept using the same Pokemon and the same sets, the meta wouldn't really progress. New sets get discovered and people start bringing different Pokemon into OU that otherwise weren't used before, such as Assault Vest Tapu Bulu, which saw no use before USUM, and the rise of Mega Latios, which before then was considered garbo. Hence the meta shifts to different Pokemon and sets: if anything, the OU meta has been different every gen, with its own defining characteristics; whether it be the weather wars of Gen V OU or the stalliness of Gen II OU.

As for your second point: here's to me wondering what Gen VIII OU will bring to the table. I'm kinda still expecting the Tapus to be near the top, but if they start bringing in an influx of physically defensive Water-types that can hit hard for example, then that'll most likely bump Lando from the top of the charts, and the meta can finally favour Pokemon that were otherwise stopped by this cat, and hyper offense will be a really good playstyle without his dominance.

But unrelated side-note: thread title made me think of how Garchomp used to be a staple of competitive singles and now it feels like it's gotten kinda rare in OU. It's kinda weird to me.

Garchomp fell because of the rise of Zygarde and general power creep in general, such as the Tapus. The reason the Tank Chomp set was so prominent last gen was because of Talonflame who was pretty much ubiquitous in OU., but now it falls flat because it's pretty much outclassed by defensive Lando.

 

[Enpatsu Shakugan]

Thanks.

Bottom line is that OU Pokémon are Over Used for a reason, they're solid Pokémon.
However as time goes on it's almost funny to see the same team again and again. Same move set, same EV/IV distribution and nature.
Hopefully the format will change soon.... too many Tapu Kokos.....

I think the opposite. Once you know every standard set, even the best just become easy. And the inverse is also true.

I've seen other guys lose to me because they assume I'm running the standard sets on my Pokemon.

It's something that's a part of literally every competitive metagame that has and will ever exist. The majority of people who are into competitive play are interested in one thing and one thing only: winning. Not so much having fun finding different stuff that can work. On top of that, the majority of those people lack the creativity and skill (or in some cases it's more the time and resources to be able to obtain those things) to try and to make work unconventional stuff. People who have the desire to and the skill to are not common. Competition is hard and I really don't blame people for doing what's natural and going for the path that offers less resistance.


But unrelated side-note: thread title made me think of how Garchomp used to be a staple of competitive singles and now it feels like it's gotten kinda rare in OU. It's kinda weird to me.

The worst part about that gotta win mentality to me is, you don't get anything for it. Not even bragging rights because, 1. It's Pokemon, get a life 2. Most of the time, not even your sets.

So... Winning to win because...? It's the epidomy of pathetic to me.

 

[Aduitt]

Have to say, I don't have much to say to that. You're right after all.
Sets do change and Pokémon occasionally make their way up and down OU, most of the time for the better.
I have say though, the fall of Garchomp was due to new Pokémon being added because of a new game/reigon. I'll repeat myself from a previous comment, we shouldn't have to wait for a new region to change the format in the slightest.
I admit however that the Tapus deserve a place in OU for a while to come as each is good in a different way yet can be stopped with moderate success. They're fair Pokémon.

sidenote: Alola-Ninetales and pretty much anything that knows an ice type move can take out Landorus with relative ease. Kinda surprised it's used as much as it is because of that.

 

[gimmepie]

I'm honestly surprised you feel that way about the current meta. I feel like while there's definitely some mon drastically more viable than others (which is nothing new anyway), this is actually the most diverse the meta has been in years. There's so many different combinations of mon and moves you can use compared to last gen that are actually viable.

 

[Enpatsu Shakugan]

I'm honestly surprised you feel that way about the current meta. I feel like while there's definitely some mon drastically more viable than others (which is nothing new anyway), this is actually the most diverse the meta has been in years. There's so many different combinations of mon and moves you can use compared to last gen that are actually viable.

But they're still all so predictable.

You saw things like that as early as Gen 4. Things like, yeah there are THREE Heracross sets, but as soon as you saw two of its moves, you immediately knew which one it was using and could adapt from there.

The problem is the fact people copy 'standard' sets, no matter how many 'viable options' there are. If you familiarize yourself with them, it takes the fun out of it because you immediately can guess your opponent's strategy.

 

[gimmepie]

But they're still all so predictable.

You saw things like that as early as Gen 4. Things like, yeah there are THREE Heracross sets, but as soon as you saw two of its moves, you immediately knew which one it was using and could adapt from there.

The problem is the fact people copy 'standard' sets, no matter how many 'viable options' there are. If you familiarize yourself with them, it takes the fun out of it because you immediately can guess your opponent's strategy. I agree with Aduitt.

Personally, I think that's a "you" problem not a problem with Smogon or competitive. I find learning the meta and learning what works or doesn't work inside the meta to be a fun part of competitive battling. Sure, it's also very fun to find unusual mon or sets that also work but 9/10 times they simply aren't as good as the more standard sets. On top of that, that small degree of predictability allows for strategy to exist otherwise it's all just down to random chance depending on the matchup you get.

 

[Aduitt]

To be honest, if everyone kept using the same Pokemon and the same sets, the meta wouldn't really progress. New sets get discovered and people start bringing different Pokemon into OU that otherwise weren't used before, such as Assault Vest Tapu Bulu, which saw no use before USUM, and the rise of Mega Latios, which before then was considered garbo. Hence the meta shifts to different Pokemon and sets: if anything, the OU meta has been different every gen, with its own defining characteristics; whether it be the weather wars of Gen V OU or the stalliness of Gen II OU.

As for your second point: here's to me wondering what Gen VIII OU will bring to the table. I'm kinda still expecting the Tapus to be near the top, but if they start bringing in an influx of physically defensive Water-types that can hit hard for example, then that'll most likely bump Lando from the top of the charts, and the meta can finally favour Pokemon that were otherwise stopped by this cat, and hyper offense will be a really good playstyle without his dominance.


Garchomp fell because of the rise of Zygarde and general power creep in general, such as the Tapus. The reason the Tank Chomp set was so prominent last gen was because of Talonflame who was pretty much ubiquitous in OU., but now it falls flat because it's pretty much outclassed by defensive Lando.

Totally agree.
Its definitely hard to breed Pokémon and come up with solid strategies. Showdown at the very least provides people with a testing ground for the teams they are yet to make which is good.
But I feel as though the format we have could be the undoing of Pokémon if it gets too out of hand.
As an ex Yugioh player, I can say that using the same combo, no matter if you use a slightly different Set or not can make the game unintendedly boring and can lead to people (myself with Yugioh) quit until something Major changes. Because of this we really shouldn't have to wait until a new region is created to fix something that is deemed 'too good' (eg. Cursed Body Gengar)

 

[Aduitt]

Personally, I think that's a "you" problem not a problem with Smogon or competitive. I find learning the meta and learning what works or doesn't work inside the meta to be a fun part of competitive battling. Sure, it's also very fun to find unusual mon or sets that also work but 9/10 times they simply aren't as good as the more standard sets. On top of that, that small degree of predictability allows for strategy to exist otherwise it's all just down to random chance depending on the matchup you get.

I agree.
Unusual Pokémon are always fun to pull off and go up against, but only a few do such a thing these days as "they simply aren't as good as the more standard sets".
I feel as though that people are refusing to create unusual sets or use different Pokémon because others have deemed them 'bad', even if they work well.
It just seems that considering the 500 or so Pokémon (Not including Uber or NFE and lower) the fact out meta revolves around only about 30 of those Pokémon seems weird.
If those 30 were to transform into say 100, 150, 200, etc, The game itself would rely on the skill of the person using the Pokémon rather than just having an OP set. Why do you think 'Random Battles' on Smogon are so popular.

 

[gimmepie]

I agree.
Unusual Pokémon are always fun to pull off and go up against, but only a few do such a thing these days as "they simply aren't as good as the more standard sets".
I feel as though that people are refusing to create unusual sets or use different Pokémon because others have deemed them 'bad', even if they work well.
It just seems that considering the 500 or so Pokémon (Not including Uber or NFE and lower) the fact out meta revolves around only about 30 of those Pokémon seems weird.
If those 30 were to transform into say 100, 150, 200, etc, The game itself would rely on the skill of the person using the Pokémon rather than just having an OP set. Why do you think 'Random Battles' on Smogon are so popular.

If you think the current meta doesn't revolve around skill I have bad news for you. Using a good set doesn't mean jack if you make bad predictions, suck at teambuilding or make bad choices. The reason that a smaller number of those mon are at the centre of the meta are because they are legitimately better options. If someone discovers something else good enough, it becomes more popular over time and eventually the meta shifts.

Random battles are popular not because they rely on skill more than a structured format but because they're casual fun that doesn't require any teambuilding.