Which Gyrados Moveset?

[Anti]

Yeah, truth is, every pokemon is walled by something. Pick and choose. Pick and choose. ICe fang ans EQ is my fav combo...

 

[Sora_8920]

As it is, Gya cannot hit everythihg. Choose something and go after it. I beat Ludicolo with EQ & three DD's.

I would run this set: DD/EQ/Taunt/Ice Fang. Ice Fang and EQ for Type coverage. DD to make those moves for raw-power. And Taunt, like said, is for Skarm.

 

[sims796]

Taunt is for more than Skarm. It allows you to set up. I use Waterfall over Ice Fang. Power over coverage. But thats just me.

 

[Anti]

Taunt is for more than Skarm. It allows you to set up. I use Waterfall over Ice Fang. Power over coverage. But thats just me.

Yeah. I prefer coverage, because my team had trouble with Chomp and Mence...but yeah. Gyara stops hazers in their tracks with taunt. It is why quagsire (which learns haze) isn't the ultimate gyara counter:)

 

[Jimmyray]

Lol, I just did a test to see who was better out EQ/IFados and returnados, and guess who won?

 

[Anti]

Lol, I just did a test to see who was better out EQ/IFados and returnados, and guess who won?

Why don't you tell us. Don't even say return, we've already backed our opinions up with facts.

 

[Jimmyray]

I'm on my wii, so I can't realy type... I'll explain why it was Returnados tomorrow.

 

[Anti]

I'm on my wii, so I can't realy type... I'll explain why it was Returnados tomorrow.

No you won't! you have NO facts to back that up. How exactly did you test this? How was this done? You have given us no proof, so until proven otherwise, we are right, return fails on gyarados. Didn't you read my freakin' PM?

EDIT: I'll make this simple Jimmyray...

-Ice Fang and EQ cover everything...return has terrible coverage. Walled by rock, steel, and ghost types. That's a lot of pokemon. Ironically, the move that would pair with it the best is EQ, since it hurts rock and steel types a lot. Still, that pair would fail, since Bronzong, skarm, gengar, etc. would laugh at you.

Now, replacing return with ston edge gives you trememndous coverage (earthslide, but w/ stone edge). Now you cover all those dreaded pokemon you briought up in your previous posts. All of a sudden, you hit almost any pokemon with a solid hit, with a few exceptions. But, every pokemon is walled by something, so you have to decide what you're going to get walled by.

Okay, next option. Waterfall and EQ. Both have great power with Gyara, as one gets STAB and the other has great base power. Even though there are quite a few pokemon that wall that, the overall power of both moves allows for nice power, even if it "is not very effective," assuming you've got at least one DD in. Basically, this is power over coverage.

Last option...ice fang and EQ, my favorite combo. Flyers? Dead. Dragons? Dead. Electric types? Dead. It has tremendous coverage, but not overwheling power. It is a lovely combo that hits a lot of its counters. Not much more to say. While walled by bronzong again, all pokemon are walled by something...just scout for bronzong at the beginning of the battle, take it out, and proceed by sending out Gyara.


Okay, notice those all have EQ? Without it, many electric types that normally aren't gyara counters suddenly turn into gyara counters, and it falls much easier. therefor, EQ is a must on it, for its own survival.

Therefore, if you were to use return, you'd get squashed. Gengar, bronzong, etc. would wall you far worse than the other combos I mentioned and you are kinda hopeless. Okay, so then you want to get rid of EQ to keep return. Then the electric types lol at you.



You see, return fails on gyarados, because it doesn't give it the necessary coverage to be a huge threat in the metagame like the other gyaras I posted are.



I'm a pokemon nerd, geek, I have no life, so you'd hope I'd be good at what I like. I just so happen to be a very good battler. Not tremndous and legendary, but good. You should listen Jimmyray, you'd benefit a lot.

 

[Alter Ego]

Well, Anti-Pop Culture Warrior 13 covered it pretty well, but to make his long story short:

STABless Return fails because it gets no super effective hits. Now with STAB, we're still looking at a 153-power move, which is nothing to sneeze at, but on Gyarados it's a measly 102. Waterfall, on the other hand, enjoys STAB (Raising it up to 120 effective power) in addition to nailing a number of weaknesses and having a respectable flinch rate. Earthquake is 100 base, which is marginally below Return on a normal hit, but it is super effective against the one type Gyarados really loathes going up against: Electrics. Now what types won't quake and Waterfall hurt properly? Ground and Water don't match up well against Grass, and Flying types avoid quake (Water/Flying and Grass/Flying also weathering Waterfall fairly well) and this is where the third move comes in: Ice Fang is a great fit, since it not only has the freeze and flinch rate to its name but is also super effective against...ta-dah, Grass and Flying types. The pokes with levitate will also either have an ice weak or take neutral damage from Waterfall. In other words, while Ice Fang's base power is a measly 65, we're only using it as a super effective attack so it will effectively turn to 130 or even 260, depending on the target. EQ is also used largely for super effective hits (200 or 400 effective base power) and Waterfall stands at a solid 120 even without being super effective, so all of them are superior to Return's lackluster 102 base power. Plus, all of these moves have an effect outside of dealing damage (although Earthquake's will only become relevant if your opponent is a clueless N00B in love with Dig) giving them another benefit to their name.

So yeah, unless we're dealing with a Normal type or a pokémon with an absolutely craptastic movepool there's no reason to even consider Return. =O That 'test' was obviously a load of BS to have reached such an absurd result, probably done with an otherwise failing movepool (or some very bad gameplay) on the EQ Gyarados' part, because there's no rational backing for using Return on a Gyarados. xP

 

[Jimmyray]

No you won't! you have NO facts to back that up. How exactly did you test this? How was this done? You have given us no proof, so until proven otherwise, we are right, return fails on gyarados. Didn't you read my freakin' PM?

EDIT: I'll make this simple Jimmyray...

-Ice Fang and EQ cover everything...return has terrible coverage. Walled by rock, steel, and ghost types. That's a lot of pokemon. Ironically, the move that would pair with it the best is EQ, since it hurts rock and steel types a lot. Still, that pair would fail, since Bronzong, skarm, gengar, etc. would laugh at you.

Now, replacing return with ston edge gives you trememndous coverage (earthslide, but w/ stone edge). Now you cover all those dreaded pokemon you briought up in your previous posts. All of a sudden, you hit almost any pokemon with a solid hit, with a few exceptions. But, every pokemon is walled by something, so you have to decide what you're going to get walled by.

Okay, next option. Waterfall and EQ. Both have great power with Gyara, as one gets STAB and the other has great base power. Even though there are quite a few pokemon that wall that, the overall power of both moves allows for nice power, even if it "is not very effective," assuming you've got at least one DD in. Basically, this is power over coverage.

Last option...ice fang and EQ, my favorite combo. Flyers? Dead. Dragons? Dead. Electric types? Dead. It has tremendous coverage, but not overwheling power. It is a lovely combo that hits a lot of its counters. Not much more to say. While walled by bronzong again, all pokemon are walled by something...just scout for bronzong at the beginning of the battle, take it out, and proceed by sending out Gyara.


Okay, notice those all have EQ? Without it, many electric types that normally aren't gyara counters suddenly turn into gyara counters, and it falls much easier. therefor, EQ is a must on it, for its own survival.

Therefore, if you were to use return, you'd get squashed. Gengar, bronzong, etc. would wall you far worse than the other combos I mentioned and you are kinda hopeless. Okay, so then you want to get rid of EQ to keep return. Then the electric types lol at you.



You see, return fails on gyarados, because it doesn't give it the necessary coverage to be a huge threat in the metagame like the other gyaras I posted are.



I'm a pokemon nerd, geek, I have no life, so you'd hope I'd be good at what I like. I just so happen to be a very good battler. Not tremndous and legendary, but good. You should listen Jimmyray, you'd benefit a lot.

After I'm DD'd up, Waterfall would kill steel types, and as for Rock Types, I have Waterfall as well, even if I'm not DD'd up.

Bronzong ~ It's never the first pokemon, Gyarados should have been danced up enough to either kill Bronzong with Waterfall, or taunt it, which leaves Gyro Ball and Earthquake and Psychic which either aren't very effective, ir aren't effective at all...

Skarmory ~ Pretty much the same thing, except you'd obviously go for taunt straight away.

Gengar ~ Since when could Gengar survive waterfall?

 

[Anti]

After I'm DD'd up, Waterfall would kill steel types, and as for Rock Types, I have Waterfall as well, even if I'm not DD'd up.

Bronzong ~ It's never the first pokemon, Gyarados should have been danced up enough to either kill Bronzong with Waterfall, or taunt it, which leaves Gyro Ball and Earthquake and Psychic which either aren't very effective, ir aren't effective at all...

Skarmory ~ Pretty much the same thing, except you'd obviously go for taunt straight away.

Gengar ~ Since when could Gengar survive waterfall?

Let's face it...nothing gyarados has can beat bronzong or skarmory, unless you get in 6 DDs...I mean, you can taunt them and they'll switch, so you won't need to worry about them anyways, thus they should be eliminated from the argument.

You totally missed the point on gengar. Gyara needs EQ so electric types don't come in and laugh at gyarados. With simple prediction, they can switch in and OHKO gyara. You can't assume it will have DDs in...if you do, when you aren't powered up, that assumption will come and bite you in the butt. Zapdos is a nice coujnter for gyara, unless you give it stone edge or ice fang, which I'll get into later.

Becasue of the reasons I just posted, even you, Jimmyray, must admit gyara needs EQ to deal with its biggest weakness, since it is far from a guarentee that a waterfall not powered from DD will OHKO gyara's threats...therefore, it needs EQ.

So, we now have taunt, DD, and EQ. This is where gengar comes back into play. Since gyara needs EQ pretty much, if you gave it return, gengar would laugh at you. EQ...levitate! Return doesn't effect it...so since EQ is needed, return isn't an option...because far too many pokemon wall it. Agiligross can switch in, set up, and OHKO gyara w/ thunderpunch too...and Vire lols at gyara that doesn't carry EQ.

Which brings me to my next point. Any GOOD battler you fight will have good prediction skills...the minute your opponent realizes you were stupid enough to put return on gyara, gengar or zapdos comes in and will force you to switch, meaning they have a free turn to do as they wish and lol at you. Any steel also lols at return, or even rock type (both types in which all their pokemon have generally good defense). So rhyperior could come in and OHKO with stone edge, at least the common CB version.

the other options above give you far more coverage so that you aren't walled by every pokemon on the planet except bidoof and zigzagoon.

If you still refuse to listen and feel gyara needs a normal move (even though it doesn't gain STAB and has much poorer coverage than ice fand, stone edge, and even waterfall), then use double edge. It has a bit more power and might.../MIGHT/ make using a normal move worth it.

I still lol at the idea of return on tauntrados. lolololololol.

 

[Dark Azelf]

After I'm DD'd up, Waterfall would kill steel types, and as for Rock Types, I have Waterfall as well, even if I'm not DD'd up.

Bronzong ~ It's never the first pokemon, Gyarados should have been danced up enough to either kill Bronzong with Waterfall, or taunt it, which leaves Gyro Ball and Earthquake and Psychic which either aren't very effective, ir aren't effective at all...

Skarmory ~ Pretty much the same thing, except you'd obviously go for taunt straight away.

Gengar ~ Since when could Gengar survive waterfall?

For Bronzong youve obviously not come across this variant, dont Expect Gyro Ball Earthquake and Psychic all the time

[SET]
name: Calm Mind Tank
move1: Charge Beam/ Block
move2: Calm Mind
move3: Psychic / Hidden Power Ice
move4: Rest
item: Leftovers / Chesto Berry
ability: Levitate
nature: Relaxed / Quiet / Sassy
evs: 252 HP / 100 DEF / 152 SPATK

From Smogon, and ive used this on Shoddy Battle, and its fantastic

it gets Pwned by Charge Beam !!

Also for Gengar, have you ever heard of Focus Sash and Thunderbolt lol??

and no player in their right mind would ever Leave Skarm in on Taunt

 

[Jimmyray]

Most Bronzong's I came across had something like:
Trick Room
Gyro Ball
Earthquake
Hypnosis
As for Gengar, it wouldn't kill an EV'd Gyarados in Sp.Def with one TB usually...

 

[Dark Azelf]

Most Bronzong's I came across had something like:
Trick Room
Gyro Ball
Earthquake
Hypnosis
As for Gengar, it wouldn't kill an EV'd Gyarados in Sp.Def with one TB usually...

dont Expect Gyro Ball, Earthquake, Psychic, Trick and Hypnosis all the time , because the one i previously above may be rare but it is out there.

Also why would Gyarados be Ev trained in Sp.Def?

as for Thunderbolt ITS 4X EFFECTIVE !!!! Gyarados DIES LOL XD

Besises EVS for TauntDos are 214 HP 16 ATT 180 DEF 100 SPEED

 

[Anti]

Most Bronzong's I came across had something like:
Trick Room
Gyro Ball
Earthquake
Hypnosis
As for Gengar, it wouldn't kill an EV'd Gyarados in Sp.Def with one TB usually...

lolololololololololololololololololololololol. Gengar has 130 base special attack, and gyara needs a few EVs in attack and speed, mind you. Therefore, while it has a decent shot at surviving, it still walls gyara with return completely, since it still needs EQ. therefore, gengar wouldn't even need a OHKO. Again, you rely on setting up on bronzong, when no good player will let you set up THAT easily. They'll realize you won't be packing EQ just yet, and jolteon says hello! Tbolt is a OHKO, you better believe it. While in theory, return could work, too many things counter it.

Also, you keep mentioning waterfall. If you use waterfall and return, electrics, like jolteon, laugh at you. So to keep return as you desire to do, you'd have to get rid of waterfall. Big dfeal, right? No, because now bronzong, especially the charge beam variant, laughs at you. So lololololol, I'm right for once

 

[Alter Ego]

No, just no. Return isn't a good idea even in theory. Name one pokémon for me that takes more damage from Return than Waterfall, Ice Fang, or Earthquake. If you can't then there's no point whatsoever with using Return. End of discussion.

 

[Anti]

No, just no. Return isn't a good idea even in theory. Name one pokémon for me that takes more damage from Return than Waterfall, Ice Fang, or Earthquake. If you can't then there's no point whatsoever with using Return. End of discussion.

That was my argument in a nice little box and a ribbon tied on. End, and you still haven't told us what this "test" is you supposedly conducted.

 

[Sora_8920]

I wonder if he's even tested the move out yet. And like Anti said in another Thread, we are giving facts about Return. Not being a noob and flaming you.

 

[Anti]

I wonder if he's even tested the move out yet. And like Anti said in another Thread, we are giving facts about Return. Not being a noob and flaming you.

Exactly. Until Jimmyray proves us otherwise, which he can't, because we have posted facts, we are right.As mentioned b4, EQ is needed...and gengar laughs at return and EQ. So yeah, not much else to say. Here. I prefer ice fang and EQ, but I know sims likes EQ and waterfall.

 

[Sora_8920]

Exactly. Until Jimmyray proves us otherwise, which he can't, because we have posted facts, we are right.As mentioned b4, EQ is needed...and gengar laughs at return and EQ. So yeah, not much else to say. Here. I prefer ice fang and EQ, but I know sims likes EQ and waterfall.

He says "Hi, I like noobish Gyarados set's with Return, bye." I prefer Ice Fang over Waterfall for him to cover Grass, which he'd have to switch if he had Waterfall in place of.