Why Wobbufet is Uber

[sims796]

Good point. Still, the fact that it can come out at any moment is the problem. You can't predict it. And since it's free to switch, you're never safe. If he wanted, he could have had a ghost waiting, just for Exploders.

 

[Syaoran]

I know it's overcentralization in the long run, but in this particular case it wasn't since he was already running Explosion Bronzong.

That is quite a ridiculous statement. It doesn't matter whether or not I have Explosion on Bronzong. The fact that I am -forced- to use it is overcentralizing.



I really would have taken the Explosion risk. It's hard for Wobby to switch in once you get it out and know what kind of team they're running. Either way Bronzong dies, you might as well take the chance.


I would rather prove how Uber Wubba is over making a fool of myself exploding on a switching ghost. The common belief is that Wubba is used for getting other team member a free turn to set up. A speedy encore set will basically PP stall every Skarm/Bronzong/Forretress/Blissey/Hippowdon/Swampert who doesn't carry Roar or Whirlwind. Substitute doesn't block Encore. Toxic is prevented by Safeguard.

Comments in bold. Someone has finally saw the true potential of Wubba, being, if not the best, wall killer.

 

[sims796]

Don't forget those nasty Struggle stalls.

 

[shedinjask]

Ugh, I know it's overcentralizing. I know you would be forced to use Explosion. Just forget it.

And you really made even more of a fool of yourself by seeing a Wobby and not Exploding on it first thing when you have a Bronzong. You would have done better to either severely cripple it right away or make it switch out, not sit there Stealth Rocking like an idiot thinking it's not going to take the time to set up on you.

 

[sims796]

Ugh, I know it's overcentralizing. I know you would be forced to use Explosion. Just forget it.

And you really made even more of a fool of yourself by seeing a Wobby and not Exploding on it first thing when you have a Bronzong. You would have done better to either severely cripple it right away or make it switch out, not sit there Stealth Rocking like an idiot thinking it's not going to take the time to set up on you.

He had no choice. He would either Expole on a ghost, wasting a Bronzong, or do something useful, and hurt his opponents entire team. Either way, Syoran knew he would lose Zong, so why risk Exploding on a ghost like an idiot, just to say "hey, I tried!" Any good Wobbo player would have a ghost, or something to take Explosion, or a way to recover Wobbo's health, so since Bronzong was lost, might as well do something to hurt his opponents team.

 

[Sora_8920]

Ah, yes, I've been waiting for this thread for a long time now.

And I'd just like to say, I don't even to need to post reasons, seriously, Wobby is Uber, guys. The Battle Log just proves it.

Sorry, Syaoran. :/ You shouldn't have had to suffer through that. :/

Meh. Just like you said, if Wobbuffet was never created, this would've never happen.

Me thinks something with Pressure can stop it in It's tracks... Yes, Aerodactyl.

Crunch >>>>

If it had CB, would it 1-2HKO? Edit: Or DA's picture of a man-eating Pear with Crunch. XD.

 

[sims796]

Um...Counter?

If that was the case, anything that could OHKO Wobbo would work. It isn't that simple.

 

[Anti]

Ah, yes, I've been waiting for this thread for a long time now.

And I'd just like to say, I don't even to need to post reasons, seriously, Wobby is Uber, guys. The Battle Log just proves it.

Sorry, Syaoran. :/ You shouldn't have had to suffer through that. :/

Meh. Just like you said, if Wobbuffet was never created, this would've never happen.

Me thinks something with Pressure can stop it in It's tracks... Yes, Aerodactyl.

Crunch >>>>

If it had CB, would it 1-2HKO? Edit: Or DA's picture of a man-eating Pear with Crunch. XD.

You see, that's just the thing. Wobbuffet will easily counter you to OHKO. Or, it just won't bother taking the damage and will not even bother with Aero. It'll just trap things that can't beat it, so naming counters really is pretty useless.

Wobbuffet will eat alive almost any wall and then Garchomp comes for a guarenteed sweep of the entire team. Ew. But yeah, I've made my point.

 

[Dark Azelf]

Umm, ive just done some damage Calcs



252 ATT Jolly Tyranitars Crunch With Black Glasses


Defender HP: 522
Damage: 326 - 383
Damage: 62.45% - 73.37%

ON 252 DEF / 6 HP Bold wobuffet


252 ATT Scarf Adamant Heracross Megahorn

Defender HP: 522
Damage: 422 - 497
Damage: 80.84% - 95.21%

ON 252 DEF / 6 HP Bold wobuffet

=/


Yah....right....if that doesnt say something about how Uber this thing is, then i dont know what will.

 

[shedinjask]

He had no choice. He would either Expole on a ghost, wasting a Bronzong, or do something useful, and hurt his opponents entire team. Either way, Syoran knew he would lose Zong, so why risk Exploding on a ghost like an idiot, just to say "hey, I tried!" Any good Wobbo player would have a ghost, or something to take Explosion, or a way to recover Wobbo's health, so since Bronzong was lost, might as well do something to hurt his opponents team.

Stealth Rock really doesn't help much as any team with Wobby carries a spinner. Exploding on a ghost would at least have forced Wobby out, and it's hard to get him in. If he took a nice chunk out of its health, then he's supposed to keep the pressure on so it can't heal.

Yeah, it's hard, it's overcentralizing, Wobby is uber, fine. It's just that if you're prepared for it and know how to play it you wouldn't run into this kind of thing. It'd still pose a problem, just not this big of one.

 

[sims796]

Forced Wobby out? Either way, Wobby switched & he lost Zong. The result would have been te same. Whether or not he would have used Explosion, he would have lost Zong, and Wobby would end up relitavly unharmed. There is no such thing as preparing for Wobby. Even if you know it is there, you're opponent can easily bring it out on a poke that cannot fight Wobby, and those will be on a team. Unless you're psychic, there is no 'properly predicting' Wobbuffet.

And keeping the pressure on does not in any way mean Wobby can't get a Wish-pass. This is a strategy based game, and there is such a thing as being out-predicted. Stop making it seem like Syoran did something very stupid, as that was not the case. There is no way to tell if Wobby is in a team, and no real way to drag it out.

 

[shedinjask]

Forcing Wobby out is a great thing to do, actually. If Bronzong had exploded on a ghost, he brings in something like Lucario to keep Wobby at bay. If he hits Wobby for a chunk of its health, he tries to outpredict to keep it from healing. I'm not saying this is a surefire counter to Wobby, as it's not, but at least you have a chance there. It's like not running when you hit a baseball because 'oh he might catch it'.

You can prepare for Wobby, it's as simple as having something it can't switch in to on your team. Yes, it's an overcentralizing strategy and involves a lot of mindgames, but it's still preparation and better than nothing. You have a Tyranitar, and your opponent sees and switches to his Tyranitar counter, while you switch to a counter to that counter that is Wobby bait, then you switch to Tyranitar as they switch to Wobby and mindgame Pursuit/Crunch for the kill. It's not easy by any means but it's preparation.

Also in the first scenario, the one that took place, Wobby didn't switch, so your first sentance is invalid. Anything that gets Wobby to switch out is a good thing. Either way, Bronzong is dead, and I'd rather take my chances Exploding than standing there Stealth Rocking, getting PP stalled or set up on.

But I guess in retrospect I can't really blame him because I fight Wobby all the time and I know how to deal with him.

 

[Syaoran]

The thing is, when you see a Wobba, you usually expect an Encore. I was thinking - oh well, let's Stealth Rock, I don't mind if he encores me and gets an SD Lucario in. It will have a free set up turn, but I could handle that. As long as the rock are on the field. But no - it was a totally different strategy, which is why I think this topic should get attention.

252 EVs +Spd nature Wobba reaches 181 speed, enough to outspeed:

176 - no-speed Skarmory, Breloom, Metagross, Cloyster, Ludicolo (70)
166 - no-speed Vaporeon, Umbreon, Scizor (65)
158 - no-speed Tyranitar (61)
156 - no-speed Swampert, Porygon2, Magnezone, Weezing (60)
152 - no-speed Rampardos (58 )
146 - no-speed Blissey (55)
140 - -nature/31IV Mixpert, Weezing, Magnezone(60)
136 - no-speed Tangrowth, Lickilicky, Regirock, Regice, Registeel, Donphan (50)
126 - no-speed Dusknoir, Marowak (45)
116 - no-speed Rhyperior (40)
106 - no-speed Spiritomb (35)
102 - no-speed Bronzong (33)
98 - no-speed Bidoof (31)
96 - no-speed Snorlax, Slowbro, Steelix (30)

If either of these tries to set up, it's game over for them.

 

[shedinjask]

So you don't mind if anything in the game gets a free set up on a Stealth Rocking Bronzong. You'd rather put useless rocks up than Explode in Wobby's face.

I guess I can see that if you're not used to facing it. Sorry if I come off as harsh but when someone does something wrong that is painfully obvious to me I get a little shocked, especially if right after they complain when they could have done better.

And no Wobby runs any Spd EVs. They're all max SDef/Def.

 

[Dark Azelf]

So you don't mind if anything in the game gets a free set up on a Stealth Rocking Bronzong. You'd rather put useless rocks up than Explode in Wobby's face.

I guess I can see that if you're not used to facing it. Sorry if I come off as harsh but when someone does something wrong that is painfully obvious to me I get a little shocked, especially if right after they complain when they could have done better.

And no Wobby runs any Spd EVs. They're all max SDef/Def.

The guy who Syaoran battled used speed evs on wobby, to outspeed his zong.

 

[sims796]

Forcing Wobby out is a great thing to do, actually. If Bronzong had exploded on a ghost, he brings in something like Lucario to keep Wobby at bay. If he hits Wobby for a chunk of its health, he tries to outpredict to keep it from healing. I'm not saying this is a surefire counter to Wobby, as it's not, but at least you have a chance there. It's like not running when you hit a baseball because 'oh he might catch it'.Either way, as you said, it is still no counter. In that case,

You can prepare for Wobby, it's as simple as having something it can't switch in to on your team. Yes, it's an overcentralizing strategy and involves a lot of mindgames, but it's still preparation and better than nothing. You have a Tyranitar, and your opponent sees and switches to his Tyranitar counter, while you switch to a counter to that counter that is Wobby bait, then you switch to Tyranitar as they switch to Wobby and mindgame Pursuit/Crunch for the kill. It's not easy by any means but it's preparation.Something it can't switch in on? He can easily switch into something you can't, which is the problem. How much would your team suffer if you needed to make a Wobby counter? The fact that it'sovercentralizing is what makes your team suffer.

Also in the first scenario, the one that took place, Wobby didn't switch, so your first sentance is invalid. Anything that gets Wobby to switch out is a good thing. Either way, Bronzong is dead, and I'd rather take my chances Exploding than standing there Stealth Rocking, getting PP stalled or set up on.I would agree, Exploding is better than SR, but just because in this case, he didn't switch, doesn't make my point invalid in the least.

But I guess in retrospect I can't really blame him because I fight Wobby all the time and I know how to deal with him. You really mkust not have played many good Wobby users.

Mind games alone isn't enough to call it preparation. There is no real way to prepare for it. If your opponent is superior at mind games, then what? Bedies, asAnti said, it will only come out on things it could beat. It is very easy to overpredict Wobby.

 

[shedinjask]

You can trick Wobby to switch as you switch to Tar. I know it won't work all the time but it is an example of preparing for Wobby. I know it is a **** excuse for a counter. But if it's the best you have, and sometimes it is, go for it.

I never said anything about a Wobbuffet counter. I said he should have Exploded and he should have. You can't counter Wobby, you outpredict it.

Can we just stop arguing and agree that outpredicting is the closest thing you can get to a Wobby counter, Syaoran should have Exploded and probably will if this ever happens again, and Wobbuffet is uber?

 

[sims796]

Arguing? I thought we was having a simple debate. Jeez, taking it so seriously. If you didn't want a debate, you really shouldn't have bought it up in the begining.

I still don't think Syoran sould have up and Exploded. For a desprate move, yeah (and he was desprate), then yeah, but I say do something worthwhile. He was doomed anyway. So he could either try to take a chunk out with Explosion (if he HAD Explosion), or try to do something for the team.

 

[Syaoran]

So you don't mind if anything in the game gets a free set up on a Stealth Rocking Bronzong. You'd rather put useless rocks up than Explode in Wobby's face.

I guess I can see that if you're not used to facing it. Sorry if I come off as harsh but when someone does something wrong that is painfully obvious to me I get a little shocked, especially if right after they complain when they could have done better.

And no Wobby runs any Spd EVs. They're all max SDef/Def.

Did you even read the thread? Do you NOT see the point, which is just in front of your eyes? I already explained numerous times his Wobby is meant to outrun Skarmory, which means he has at least 176 speed. You know, from now on, I'll just write in blue, maybe this way I can get you to listen. =\


Secondly, Stealth Rock is FAR from useless. Yes, I rather put Stealth Rock and give my opponent 1 free turn, rather than exploding a pokemon right off the bat. I know my team can handle 1 turn of setup. What, apparently, my team can't handle, is this speedy version of Wobba. He practically makes all pokemon slower than 181 useless when trying to set up [and I explained that in my former post].
Also, to think you actually believe it is a good move to explode Bronzong on a ghost, just to get Wobba out of the way, strikes me as something VERY wrong.

 

[Angelic Diablo]

Forcing Wobby out is a great thing to do, actually. If Bronzong had exploded on a ghost, he brings in something like Lucario to keep Wobby at bay. If he hits Wobby for a chunk of its health, he tries to outpredict to keep it from healing. I'm not saying this is a surefire counter to Wobby, as it's not, but at least you have a chance there. It's like not running when you hit a baseball because 'oh he might catch it'.

This is the reason that wobby was uber in the first place, the person with the wobby is in total control of the match up as most pokemon become suicidal in attempts to take it down, which is no easy feat in itself (D_A's damage calcs prove it).

When one pokemon can make the opponent sacrifice three to take it down, it definately needs to be banned from the standard environment.