You need to brush up on what the difference between 64-bit and 32-bit is. None of the stuff you say are even true.
You need to brush up on Windows 7. There is something that runs automatically on a schedule every so many days on Windows 7 that older Windows OS didn't do.
Don't be so hasty to reject 3rd party defragging tools. Although Windows 7 does some sort of defragmenting by default, it's not a very good tool. Defraggler and the like will find and fix much more in the way of fragmented files. I have had Windows 7 machines that have come back to life by running a 3rd party tool. The inbuilt one just sucks.
AVG is rubbish. If you're hunting something down, use Avira, but for something permanent, use MSE.
The point of CCleaner is to free up space for temp use, not quite as much on speed. Yeah, registry errors will help, but as we both said, minimal. Really though, there are better registry cleaners out there than CCleaner.
If you really need to hunting something down you shouldn't be using any protection software but antimalware software that is designed only for scanning. Malwarebytes + SuperAntiSpyware+Hijackthis will get most of the stuff with the exception of nastier rootkits.
I can't agree, sorry. The difference that Defraggler can make on a badly fragmented drive is astounding. I've seen far too many cases in which the default Windows 7 Defrag program has let things get messy, only to be defragged properly by something else. Trust me, run the analysis with Defraggler and see what it says.
MWB and SAS sure do a great job, but they're not enough. I scan with either ESET or Avira (or both) initially and externally (either via a locked-down system or a live disc), as there are certain things that only the AVs pick up. Especially considering the antimalware apps are running inside the infected OS (SAS is moody under safe mode, also) so they can't touch certain stuff. And they can't perform properly when ran externally.
This is coming from a long time of IT experience. Defraggler doesn't really do much on 7 compared to older systems like 2000, with the exception of pathetic hard drives. You're talking to a guy who managed to squeeze 10+ years out of a laptop with Windows 2000. I'm fully aware of what Defragging can do, but on Windows 7 it really doesn't do anywhere nearly as much.
Sorry to say, that logic doesn't work. No scanner will pick up everything, so your logic is to use other scanners instead AND scan multiple times using same scanners? Not everyone has that much time to fool around with and 99% of the clients I deal with don't have that much time either. MWB/SAS combo almost always gets the easy stuff like fake antiviruses, and for the nastier stuff you can find specific cleaners or just reformat.
Like I said, for nastier stuff you need to find a specific cleaner for that kind of rootkit or just reformat. Avira has fallen out of taste in the IT community (around where I am anyway) for awhile now. We usually recommend MSE for protection and use of specific cleaners with MWB/SAS for malware busting.
You'd be surprised at how many clients I get that come in with Avira, haha. And you're going down the inconvinient&time-consuming road again.
It's actually rather easy to tell which ones are shady from using Hijackthis. CCleaner rarely, if ever, detects the shady registry stuff, so you should NEVER rely on CCleaner to clean the shady stuff. If you really want to optimize the registry to the death there are better ones out there than CCleaner. And people shouldn't be using hijackthis to optimize the registry so your logic here doesn't work.
You know, we recommend that people reformat once every year or so and for a good reason too. Think about why we would do that.
As much? Of course not. Effective in the right situations? Yes.
I'm not sure you understood me. I was stating what I found to be the set of apps that cover each other's "weaknesses" most of the time. I never said anything about repeating the same scans twice... :/ It's all well and good to get a job out the door quickly, but the certainty that there's nothing lying dormant is worth just as much - letting something out that's not 100% clean is going to tarnish your business image more than an extra few hours of downtime. Unless of course, you're in the business sector, where downtime is brutal - but they be whitelisted and behind hardware firewalls, so the likelihood of the same sorts of infections are very low. Nor do they only have one system capable of any job.
That's why I mentioned Avira from a scanning point-of-view, but not protection. AFAIK, MSE doesn't offer a LiveCD scanner and most of the other companies don't offer anything as effective in this case. ESET is used for a scan when the drive is removed, but in-place, Avira is brilliant. And however anecdotal it may be, I've seen far more clients have MSE let something through than Avira. Especially in the FakeAV department.
Keep 'em on their toes :cer_laugh:
Effective in the right situations? Not really. Unless the hard drive is that pathetic, in which case the hard drive should be upgraded.
You are sounding like one of those guys that I have to train. Time is brutal, and I don't think you're understanding the degree of speed & efficiency I'm talking about here. If something ever gets infected to the degree that one specific hunter won't do the job, then it's a hell of a lot safer and faster to reformat. Why bother wasting the client's (and my) time with multiple scans when if it's something really nasty that chances are the OS is screwed up anyway? In such cases even tools more respected than Avira like ComboFix have a high chance of screwing something up.
Quite to the contrary. You've seem to fallen in love with Avira. Yes, the rescue system is useful. Extremely rarely, but in such rare situations it is. But by that point you're probably better off reformatting after using Linux live disk to back up files. But other than that Avira doesn't really offer much else.
CCleaner's sole purpose is to clean out the crap. That is a whole different issue here. When you deal with an infected system you completely forget about CCleaner till the infection is gone. I like using CCleaner to help optimizing computers, but CCleaner should NOT be used on an infected system until everything else has been taken care of, period.
Nope think again. Let me give you a funny case here to think about. What do you do with a computer that spits out random advertisements even in safe mode? Hint: Avira doesn't work.
I beg to differ. As I stated before, I have gone through with 3rd party defragging tools and had them restore systems to a snappier state, even as of Windows 7.
Come on now, no need to try and belittle me. I will reformat if a system is infected beyond a certain point, but as I said before, time urgency depends on the customers. When you're dealing with the general "mums and dads" consumer market that I do, they don't mind waiting an extra few hours before they pick their computers up if it means they can keep things the way they were. Especially older customers. It might be faster to reformat, but keep in mind you then need to reinstall all of the programs (or they do, but either way) and this takes time, itself.
I mentioned it (and MSE) because it's one of the better free options when someone was considering downloading something. It's also an option in the cases where (I'm not condoning it) people don't have a legitimate version of Windows disallowing the use of MSE. I'm talking about the thread in this case. Kaspersky IS better than Avira (which I'm not calling an all-purpose tool, don't put words in my mouth), but it doesn't have a good rescue disk and it's not free.
I don't even use Avira on my own computer, if that helps clarify my "undying love" for it. In the case where MWB craps out in Safe mode, I'll (sometimes) use a live Avira scan, because it can be done in place, rather than moving the drive out. If it takes out any system files/MBR, then there's nothing to stop you backing up and reinstalling, but this time you have less risk of transferring infected files. As I said, most external scans are done with ESET, which is definitely better.
I never said MSE wasn't effective, I was just comparing my experience rates.
Uh... when did I ever suggest it as a security tool? I suggest you read what I write in full.
In the event that external scans from anything (that INCLUDES MWB, ESET) don't work, then it's obvious to BFR. I'd sort of hope that the :cer_laugh: face would point out the sarcasm, but I can use BBCode tags if that works. :P
You're overestimating the effect of defragging again. Chances are optimizing registry and whatnot will do far more in Windows 7 systems than defragging.
Reinstalling drivers and programs definitely don't take as many hours that even a single scan takes (usually). I can tell you that right now. Now you're sounding a bit more like someone who knows the wonders of reformatting.
If you ask me people who pirate stuff might as well go without using antivirus because they better know what they are doing. Kapersky's removal tool is free, btw.
We were basically only talking about malware removal and hijackthis when you brought the CCleaner issue in. I suggest that you read what you wrote, because you certainly did sound like you were suggesting CCleaner as a registry "scanner" type of tool.
No duh, I sure hope you got all the clues that I've been shooting away at you. I work in a university/business setting, so our team is held to the fastest, most efficient standard. That also means if something goes beyond your everyday scanners/specific scanners/maybe external if situation requires it like computer that won't boot our team members will reformat, which is the safest route anyway (and you don't need to do any optimization afterwards).
You're right, but fragmentation rarely comes into it, mostly the cause is startup items, etc. All I said was that there are cases, in which fragmentation has become and issue, where 3rd party tools work. I'm just saying the Windows in-built tool isn't the best.
But when you're dealing with 20-odd computers at once, then you don't have to babysit each one during a scan. Press and walk away. This is of importance when it comes to a large parallel volume of computers over a rapid turn-around on each computer.
In your case, that's perfectly right. But in a business setting, people shouldn't be straying too far from the stock image you would use. Whereas in my case, people often have computers for up to 8 years (that's into "set it on fire and buy a new one territory"), during which time, they get things set up a certain way, to the point where I've seen people freak out because their desktop icons have moved slightly. These people rarely need things for 24/7 work, so the ability to keep it in the same condition remains more important to them. And at the end of the day, in a retail setting, keeping people happy is more crucial (don't think for a minute that I'm saying it's not important for you), because further business and henceforth income is directly affected by their opinion.
Yeah, well I didn't argue that. But when suggestion over a thread, you can't be sure what they have. Besides, that was more of a figure of conversation than anything :D. I know the removal tools are free (assuming you're talking about TDSS killer and the likes here?)
I'll look into UBCD4WIN, cheers. ESET is a great tool, it's just a shame that OEM licenses are so expensive compared to everything else.
Well I agree that it was a messy explanation, sorry. Just a misunderstanding, I suppose.
Yeah, looking at it from that perspective, our own methods are just fitting to our environment, hence the disagreement. That said, you've got some interesting points that I will take on board and think about.
If there's a computer that pathetic enough that 3rd party defragglers are necessary, then it's time for an upgrade. For 99% of computers good enough to handle 7 built in tool should suffice.
You don't have to for reformatting either.
Please tell me you don't actually set computers on fire. Otherwise let me know where you live so I can send the environmentalists all over you.
Actually, in settings like yours it makes sense to leave something behind so that those people come back to you in like a month. Smart plan of yours, I see.
I wonder why I don't use ESET...
I like walls of text. Makes it feel like something is actually going on. :badsmile:
