life after death

[elnoor]

What are your thoughts on the one thing guaranteed in life. Do people even think about it or do you try to ignore reality idk? I know everyone has different beliefs but would you not try to prepare for an internal life by trying to be the best you can be. For people who don't believe in an after life do you not worry you might be wrong or have any doubts. What is the average life span 60-70 or maybe even 80 vs eternity.

 

[Nick]

I don't really know what I believe. Recently I've been looking into some religions and considering their beliefs and life values and principles, and after exposing myself to those, I think that it just complicates things and what I believe.

I don't want to believe that death is it for someone, but it's hard not to look at it from a realistic point of view for me. I've always been interested in fiction and fantasy, and because of that and everything incorporated in all the stories that I grew up with I have a hard time looking at something like the Bible as a historical book telling the events of someone's life and not just a work of fiction someone created, because if you look at all the works of fiction in the world, there are a lot of complicated and intricate stories that could very well have been true if we weren't told otherwise.

That's important to me, because the foundation of a lot of religions is the Bible. I believe in Jesus Christ and that he was indeed a real person, and I do believe that he was a good person who did a lot of good in the world in his time and I think religious people in particular are right in aspiring to be more like, but I'm not sure I believe in God. Because of that, I don't know what comes after our lives here or even what our life here means.

I think in order for me to understand death, I feel like I need to first understand life and its purpose. Is there really a reason that we are all here? Is it God's test in order for us to get to Heaven? Does Heaven exist at all? What about spirits and reincarnation? If there is life after this, what is it like? Is there a judgement? Is Hell even real? Are we sent there based on how we lived our life while we were given a chance?

There are so many different theories and beliefs that people have, and they all conflict in my mind because of the way I grew up. Magic was a huge part of my life even though it's not real. And those beliefs in spirits and whatnot are all connected to magic to me, so considering those to be real? Goodness, this all just makes my brain hurt. I like talking about it, but subscribing to a particular belief is just too hard, even if beliefs change.

I do think about this a lot, though.

 

[Oryx]

If the Christians are right, then I'm fully convinced that God wouldn't give humans tons of evidence that he doesn't exist and then in the afterlife, when we're made aware he actually exists, say "too bad so sad" and ship someone off to eternal torment. Thus, as a person who's open to changing her beliefs given evidence of them being wrong, I'm confident that if the Christian religion is true I would be willing to change religions after death and repent for not believing before.

The logic that you're using, that you might as well prepare just in case, is Pascal's Wager, which doesn't really work in most religions. Most religions require you to sincerely believe in the religion, not just go through the actions because you think it's a less risky proposition. It also fails because "just in case", you'd have to go through the actions of every religion, and they would contradict one another - Christian religions, for example, command you believe in no gods other than the one true god. Thus, if you decide to follow Christianity just in case it's real, then you can't follow any other religions just in case they're real and probability wise you're not significantly closer to being "saved" after death just because there are so many religions.

So tl;dr: Pascal's Wager is useless and if a god is truly good he would understand my doubts and forgive me after death

 

[Shiny Bunnelby]

I think about it frequently.

The whole concept fascinates me to no end, to be honest, and it scares me that I think this way.

I don't fear death. I don't fear how I may go. I have known people and read several accounts of near-death and temporary death experiences and each one has mentioned inner peace.

I desperately want that peace, because I am not getting it much in this life, no matter how hard I try. At the same time, I have so much going on and too many people that I care for. So I sort of feel trapped. Life scares me immensely more than death.

I don't believe in the afterlife and that's fine with me. I was dead billions of years before I was born and I haven't experienced the least bit of inconvenience from it.

The good news is this: Cancer is extremely rare in my family. In fact, virtually every terminal illness is rare. Most people go on to live in their late 80's and early 90's. My great-great-aunt will be 92 and she still shovels her own driveway in the winter. The odds of a long life are on my side, as long as I take care of myself.

Death is just a part of life. I just wish I didn't feel so obsessed with it.

 

[Nick]

Thus, if you decide to follow Christianity just in case it's real, then you can't follow any other religions just in case they're real and probability wise you're not significantly closer to being "saved" after death just because there are so many religions.

Not to mention a few religions frown greatly on switching religions. I think some religions even state that switching religions, in their minds, means that you're going to be going to Hell no matter how you lived your life, and what you believe.

 

[Raven Valt]

My simple belief that when we die, we die. Our lives are over, we won't end up in heaven or hell or have any sort of consciousness of anything. However we still live on in peoples memories, which is proof that we lived and can be considered that we're still alive.

 

[elnoor]

I understand what you mean but I meant specifically for the people who believe in no creator when talking about doubt as they have not prepared for anything. As In terms of all the religions yes it can be difficult but logic and rational can used in truly believing in it. I remember once I felt like my life was over asking myself what if I am believing in might be wrong? Will I be going to hell? You know thoughts like that. I agree it would not seem like a fair or just God to ship everyone who did not believe into eternal torment, but what if he gave us clear cut signs. If your were given an option between say even a 100 year sand eternity logically you pick eternity right? Using that rational you can also determine the right path correct. How many religions are there in the world they can't be all correct can they?

 

[Raven Valt]

I understand what you mean but I meant specifically for the people who believe in no creator when talking about doubt as they have not prepared for anything. As In terms of all the religions yes it can be difficult but logic and rational can used in truly believing in it. I remember once I felt like my life was over asking myself what if I am believing in might be wrong? Will I be going to hell? You know thoughts like that. I agree it would not seem like a fair or just God to ship everyone who did not believe into eternal torment, but what if he gave us clear cut signs. If your were given an option between say even a 100 year sand eternity logically you pick eternity right? Using that rational you can also determine the right path correct. How many religions are there in the world they can't be all correct can they?

I've always been an atheist and have never had thoughts of "Am I wrong for not believing in a god?", Mainly because I believe people are free to believe in what they want personally and not what others expect them to believe in, Also the topic of this is "Life after death" not "If god actually existed and offered you an eternal life would you take it?".

But even on the what you said, would you want to live forever? Would others live forever aswell? Would you be able to cope with seeing your loved ones die while you live on, would you be able to handle what would be essentially an eternal life filled with pain and suffering? Even if you were what people say a "Ghost" or "Spirit", would you want to watch your loved ones or even mankind struggle so much, forever?

The link between afterlife and religion is pretty high, I would assume most non believers in religion would think that there is no life after death.

Also if God were to just appear one day and show everyone clear as day he is god, I still wouldn't worship him as I am a human who is capable of thinking for himself and not someone who follows the path laid down by some "Divine Ruler".

 

[elnoor]

I am surprised you'd say even is a clear sign came down you would still not believe in afterlife or anything. My question is this, would this then make this life we are living meaningless with no purpose?

 

[Raven Valt]

I am surprised you'd say even is a clear sign came down you would still not believe in afterlife or anything. My question is this, would this then make this life we are living meaningless with no purpose?

How can not believing in a god and not believing in an afterlife make the lives we live meaningless? Are you saying that you're only living your life just so you can be granted an eternal afterlife? Because to me that sounds totally whack.

The lives we live can only be judged on how meaningful they're by us, if you believe the time you spent alive was meaningful then no one has the right to say otherwise. Like I said earlier I believe when we die we live on in people's memories which by a small understanding would mean that your life is eternal? Even after the people who hold memories of you die, there is still proof you lived and had an impact on others lives.

I also don't like how you link being religious to whether or not our lives are meaningless, I accept people have their opinions but yours seem a little too narrow minded.

 

[elnoor]

Lol forgive me if I might seem like I'm little narrow minded. I like things to make logical sense you know I want to be 100% sure. Earlier you said if God himself came down you would still not follow the path that honestly does not make sense. If did not believe in no creator and then he comes down with clear signs and tells me that he is my creator does it not make sense to follow that path?

 

[Raven Valt]

Lol forgive me if I might seem like I'm little narrow minded. I like things to make logical sense you know I want to be 100% sure. Earlier you said if God himself came down you would still not follow the path that honestly does not make sense. If did not believe in no creator and then he comes down with clear signs and tells me that he is my creator does it not make sense to follow that path?

Why would I follow a path someone was trying to force me down? If your parents tried to force you into getting a certain job, doing certain things would you just do them? or would you have an opinion as to what you want to do?

Are you saying that in the case a God may exist we should all just give up our ability to think for ourselves and do everything we're told to do? Basically we should become slaves to this "Creator" all in hope that we may be granted a nice eternal afterlife, which this "God/Creator" hasn't given proof exists?

Like someone mentioned earlier, If there were a god why would he give us the ability to think for ourselves and give us the opportunity not to believe in him, then make us life in eternal torment when we die? That makes no logical sense.

 

[Shiny Bunnelby]

Lol forgive me if I might seem like I'm little narrow minded. I like things to make logical sense you know I want to be 100% sure. Earlier you said if God himself came down you would still not follow the path that honestly does not make sense. If did not believe in no creator and then he comes down with clear signs and tells me that he is my creator does it not make sense to follow that path?

To be honest, I wouldn't.

Assuming God exists, he seems to me like the deadbeat father who cleans his hands of responsibility when it is needed most, only to just show up one day after you've grown up and acting as if he totally didn't abandon you in the first place.

I get the whole free will business, but I see nothing reasonable about being provided with zero evidence with the little clause, "Just trust me". I have a bit too much dignity for that. Baseless trust has gotten people into a lot of trouble and I see this no differently.

As for placing meaning to life, as an atheist, I have absolutely nothing to die for, except to finally rest, but that can come later. Too often, I have encountered religious individuals who seem to be in a hurry to reach the pearly gates. Some were even excited about the millionth prediction of the Rapture. If anything, it's actually religious people who don't put meaning to life, because hey, they're going to heaven and hanging out with the big man upstairs. It's sort of like throwing away an old device and getting an upgrade. Atheists have nothing to die for and everything to live for, because this is all we get.

 

[Raven Valt]

To be honest, I wouldn't.

Assuming God exists, he seems to me like the deadbeat father who cleans his hands of responsibility when it is needed most, only to just show up one day after you've grown up and acting as if he totally didn't abandon you in the first place.

I get the whole free will business, but I see nothing reasonable about being provided with zero evidence with the little clause, "Just trust me". I have a bit too much dignity for that. Baseless trust has gotten people into a lot of trouble and I see this no differently.

As for placing meaning to life, as an atheist, I have absolutely nothing to die for, except to finally rest, but that can come later. Too often, I have encountered religious individuals who seem to be in a hurry to reach the pearly gates. Some were even excited about the millionth prediction of the Rapture. If anything, it's actually religious people who don't put meaning to life, because hey, they're going to heaven and hanging out with the big man upstairs. It's sort of like throwing away an old device and getting an upgrade. Atheists have nothing to die for and everything to live for, because this is all we get.

I think a simple way to put it would be "We die to prove how much we've lived." Obviously in certain instances this isn't 100% but I think that to a certain point it can be as simple as that.

 

[elnoor]

It depends how much the job pays lol. I am not saying to not think for yourself, this is the one quality that makes us humans special the ability to make our own choices. Does it matter if proof is there? You said if the creator himself came down you would not take his path.

 

[Raven Valt]

It depends how much the job pays lol. I am not saying to not think for yourself, this is the one quality that makes us humans special the ability to make our own choices. Does it matter if proof is there? You said if the creator himself came down you would not take his path.

Proof that god exists and following a pre-set path aren't the same thing.

You've been talking about Logic yet most of what you say makes no sense.

 

[elnoor]

What you say makes sense if I see it from your point of view as an atheist, you have everything to live for because that's it. Personally I would not give up the eternal life of bliss if granted everyone has their own opinion.

 

[Shiny Bunnelby]

What you say makes sense if I see it from your point of view as an atheist, you everything to live for because that's it. Personally I would not give up the eternal life of bliss if granted everyone has their own opinion.

Nobody could blame you for that. Even if eternal life were guaranteed, I'd rather just rest. I plan to do as much living as I can in this life and make it something of a wonder for the people I hold close. After that, eternal sleep sounds awesome.

 

[Nick]

To be honest, I wouldn't.

Assuming God exists, he seems to me like the deadbeat father who cleans his hands of responsibility when it is needed most, only to just show up one day after you've grown up and acting as if he totally didn't abandon you in the first place.

I get the whole free will business, but I see nothing reasonable about being provided with zero evidence with the little clause, "Just trust me". I have a bit too much dignity for that. Baseless trust has gotten people into a lot of trouble and I see this no differently.

As for placing meaning to life, as an atheist, I have absolutely nothing to die for, except to finally rest, but that can come later. Too often, I have encountered religious individuals who seem to be in a hurry to reach the pearly gates. Some were even excited about the millionth prediction of the Rapture. If anything, it's actually religious people who don't put meaning to life, because hey, they're going to heaven and hanging out with the big man upstairs. It's sort of like throwing away an old device and getting an upgrade. Atheists have nothing to die for and everything to live for, because this is all we get.

I forget the religion, but it's believed by people who follow this religion that we once all lived in an eternal paradise sort of place with God, and he sent us to Earth to challenge us and help us become stronger spirits, and that's how people tend to rationalize all the challenges that we're faced with in life. It's believe that God loves us as his children.

I don't really subscribe to that belief, because I sort of relate to you in that if God exist, I don't really understand why he lets us go through the things that some people go to. There are some truly cruel acts done to innocent people every day that I can't find any rationalization for, even ones that transcend humanity.

But also, religious folk put a lot of meaning in their life. They live to become more like Christ was. At least, that's what Mormons believe, and I think that's a good example to use here since a lot of people tend to view them as the most religious of all religions. Family rules above all, with the exception of Christ. But Mormons want to live to be the best people they can be, so they often do that by helping the less fortunate.

People who are religious tend to just use our life living to prove that they're worthy of living in Heaven, so really this is everything to them as well.

 

[elnoor]

Ok so what is it that really bothers you is it existence of God or the pre-set path. Can you really prove to me what you believe is the absolute truth or am I so supposed figure my own different way of what this life really means or how the afterlife is supposed to be like.