Pokemon Sun and Moon Ratings

[weedle_mchairybug]

Sometimes I feel that some people confuse the overall rating with TV ratings and do not even know what TV ratings mean at all. Please do not confuse the time as it was then with today plus another country not compare with another country when it comes to TV ratings.

The entire point of having ratings is to measure viewership, and the only way to actually measure viewership is with TV ratings. And before you cite online ratings, let's make clear that Hulu/Netflix streaming services are defunct in Japan, and even regarding DVR streaming services, Pokémon's bottom rung. And for the record, I can name plenty of Japanese shows that had fairly high ratings, such as Shin-Chan or Detective Conan (and by "fairly high ratings", I mean ratings that are at least 7.0, if not within the double digits). And, in a prior post, I noted a few Japanese shows, especially those that were adaptations of mangas or, in the case of Star Force, games, that ended prematurely due to a lack of ratings. Heck, one of the examples included the Bleach anime, and that sold quite a bit of merchandise and still has enough popularity that they're actually making a new film as we speak.

And I know a couple of people who would be very familiar with TV ratings and what they mean. In fact, they're actually some of my Maternal Aunts and Uncles. Specifically, my aunt formerly owned an advertising agency, and current works as an advertising consultant at Disney, and my Uncle teaches advertising at the University of North Carolina.

And for the record, NCIS actually has very stellar ratings even today, about as high as back when it first aired back in 2003. I can probably cite any Japanese ratings from Detective Conan or Shin-Chan that had similarly high ratings if I must (I can definitely state that Famon, if he's still around, can vouch regarding those shows, since he pointed that out when calling out the Pokémon Anime's current sordid ratings).

 

[Prochief]

But TV ratings still do not say how popular an anime or an episode is because there is still the internet and nowadays every internet has therefore you can compare the time from then no longer with today but apparently you ignored both of these things. You talk here as TV ratings are the overall evaluation of a whole episode or animes but it seems to have forgotten that the people on the internet are still there who do not use more TV.

Now you can tell us how the last episode of XYZ with 3.0 can be popular if you really mean the TV rating say like an episode or saga is instead of the overall evaluation Then you explain to us next as the anime Sazae-san despite the best TV ratings is not popular(it's just for parents with their children a popular anime) although in your opinion TV ratings should say how popular an anime is and please for Naruto Shippuuden synonymous since this anime had worse TV ratings and was popular. If it were to you then only the animes may be popular with the high TV ratings.

Japan rated animes the worse TV ratings have better than animes the better TV ratings have. Explain to me why the Japanese do this? Should TV ratings not actually say how popular is an anime? Where is Sazae-san? The supposed most popular anime. Why are AG, DP and BW not on the list even though they had better TV ratings? Why are general animes rated with bad TV rating better than animes with better TV ratings?

http://www.nhk.or.jp/anime/anime100/ani_report/index.html
http://www.nhk.or.jp/anime/anime100/ani_report/101.html

I think you rather concentrate on TV ratings and forget that we are talking about TV so people who watch an anime on TV and not on the internet but you forget there are still people who watch the anime on the internet as on TV , these people are no longer counted with their ratings? Japan thinks now times differently than US when it comes to TV ratings since you can not compare the time of today with then, because nowadays every internet and TV is not used to look at anime but you talk as if the people the anime on TV look determine how popular an episode should be.

Please come to me with the US TV ratings not already again ... slowly annoyed. I already know that it does not make any sense to talk with you both about it so from there it was my last comment in this thread but writes calmly further such nonsense although TV is not the only thing there is to evaluate an anime or an episode you talk as if only TV would say as the episode was and not the internet although the internet is much more popular than TV. The people watching the anime on TV are not the only ones in the world to evaluate an episode or anime. Do not forget TV ratings are not = overall rating. TV ratings say only who is watching the anime on TV.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

But TV ratings still do not say how popular an anime or an episode is because there is still the internet and nowadays every internet has therefore you can compare the time from then no longer with today but apparently you ignored both of these things. You talk here as TV ratings are the overall evaluation of a whole episode or animes but it seems to have forgotten that the people on the internet are still there who do not use more TV.

Now you can tell us how the last episode of XYZ with 3.0 can be popular if you really mean the TV rating say like an episode or saga is instead of the overall evaluation Then you explain to us next as the anime Sazae-san despite the best TV ratings is not popular(it's just for parents with their children a popular anime) although in your opinion TV ratings should say how popular an anime is and please for Naruto Shippuuden synonymous since this anime had worse TV ratings and was popular. If it were to you then only the animes may be popular with the high TV ratings.

Japan rated animes the worse TV ratings have better than animes the better TV ratings have. Explain to me why the Japanese do this? Should TV ratings not actually say how popular is an anime? Where is Sazae-san? The supposed most popular anime. Why are AG, DP and BW not on the list even though they had better TV ratings? Why are general animes rated with bad TV rating better than animes with better TV ratings?

http://www.nhk.or.jp/anime/anime100/ani_report/index.html
http://www.nhk.or.jp/anime/anime100/ani_report/101.html

I think you rather concentrate on TV ratings and forget that we are talking about TV so people who watch an anime on TV and not on the internet but you forget there are still people who watch the anime on the internet as on TV , these people are no longer counted with their ratings? Japan thinks now times differently than US when it comes to TV ratings since you can not compare the time of today with then, because nowadays every internet and TV is not used to look at anime but you talk as if the people the anime on TV look determine how popular an episode should be.

Please come to me with the US TV ratings not already again ... slowly annoyed. I already know that it does not make any sense to talk with you both about it so from there it was my last comment in this thread but writes calmly further such nonsense although TV is not the only thing there is to evaluate an anime or an episode you talk as if only TV would say as the episode was and not the internet although the internet is much more popular than TV. The people watching the anime on TV are not the only ones in the world to evaluate an episode or anime. Do not forget TV ratings are not = overall rating. TV ratings say only who is watching the anime on TV.

And maybe I should remind you that I cited plenty of examples, from the late 2000s up to the 2010s, of Anime that actually DID end up cancelled prematurely precisely BECAUSE of bad TV ratings. Like, for example, Bleach, or Star Force, or Vampire Knight, or Bacciano!, or Deadman Wonderland (and bear in mind, all of those examples had the sources they adapted from lasting FAR longer than it, or in the case of Star Force, having triple the story in its source despite technically having the same length of time overall), and bear in mind, all of those examples were DEFINITELY around the time the internet was a major factor. Or hey, how about the fact that Pokémon, even regarding Internet ratings, has been doing terribly like with DVR sales, actual internet streamings, and the like? Just ask Poke425 or Irregular Maverick X if you don't believe me, they'll verify this to great detail. Heck, earlier in this thread, I actually cited their posts. And let's not forget that Pokémon's movies in XY were complete crap in the box office (the last two movies of that series made even Pokémon Heroes, before then Pokémon's biggest flop in the box office, seem like a smash hit by comparison, THAT'S how badly they performed, and even the first XY movie didn't even break even with the last BW movie, much less surpass it.).

 

[Pinkie-Dawn]

OS Kanto/Johto had an higher rating then the Advance series, DP series and XY series put together. The BW series movies did far better then the XY series movies, really says a lot about how terrible the XY anime was. The AG/DP series were both big flops of the entire Pokemon anime, even BW series did do a little bit better in ratings then those two series, and the XY series not doing good in ratings pretty much proves that it was a failure from the very beginning to the ending.

SM anime does have a little bit of an higher rating then the XY anime had, which proves that XY wasn't that good of a series, but the ratings still don't seem to be getting any higher with SM either.

The Pokemon anime is not a fad anymore like it was in the 90s, that is another reason why the ratings are down a little bit.

OS Kanto/Johto had higher ratings because of Pokemania, as you said before, and the fact that people didn't have access to watch anime episodes online at the time (the internet was still at its infancy). Everyone here has already mentioned good shows that still got low ratings due to their appeal to niche audiences, which you apparently ignored outright.

The Original series anime might not have been perfect, but at least it did improved Ash's character in both regions instead of one, and the animation was much better back in the day, as for what i said about Misty she was a great character and her design was much better in the OS.

Ash also matured in Advanced and DP as well. It was only in Best Wishes that he got degraded to his rookie status before he went back to his matured status in XY.

From what I saw of the trailers for DuckTales, that show had everyone sounding way too old, especially Hewie, Dewie, and Louie, and the art style really wasn't all that good anyway. And as far as Star Wars Rebels, seriously, the Rebels win every day and makes the Empire look straight up incompetent, which completely conflicts with the opening narrative of Episode IV that made very clear that the Rebels only started having any victories when they stole the Death Star plans (not to mention, it made most of the Empire look as incompetent as Jessie, James and Meowth at their worst, meaning, Vader aside, the Empire wouldn't even qualify as a threatening villain.). Can't comment on Milo Murphy's Law, though, since that's the first I've heard of it.

Have you looked through other places of the internet? The DuckTales reboot was actually well-received by both critics and fans to the point that said fans are telling Cartoon Network to "take notes" due to the failure that was the PPG reboot. If you've gone to Star Wars News Network, then you would see that fans actually enjoyed Rebels, and it's clear that you've never seen the rest of the series because the rebels actually struggled against Thrawn, a fan favorite villain who originated from the expanded universe.

 

[Piii]

OS Kanto/Johto had higher ratings because of Pokemania, as you said before, and the fact that people didn't have access to watch anime episodes online at the time (the internet was still at its infancy). Everyone here has already mentioned good shows that still got low ratings due to their appeal to niche audiences, which you apparently ignored outright.



Ash also matured in Advanced and DP as well. It was only in Best Wishes that he got degraded to his rookie status before he went back to his matured status in XY.



Have you looked through other places of the internet? The DuckTales reboot was actually well-received by both critics and fans to the point that said fans are telling Cartoon Network to "take notes" due to the failure that was the PPG reboot. If you've gone to Star Wars News Network, then you would see that fans actually enjoyed Rebels, and it's clear that you've never seen the rest of the series because the rebels actually struggled against Thrawn, a fan favorite villain who originated from the expanded universe.

I didn't ignored anything. I gave you all of the facts why the ratings are not high like they were during the OS. You also forgetting the fact that the Pokemon anime was a new show back then and none of us knew anything about it at first, the only reason why the ratings were really high for the Original series is because it was brand new at the time.



Ash also matured in Advanced and DP as well. It was only in Best Wishes that he got degraded to his rookie status before he went back to his matured status in XY.


Ash might have been a matured character in the Advanced and DP series but he still made rookie mistakes in those two series. Best Wishes series might have degraded him to a rookie all over again but he was still a mature character in this series. Ash did mature an whole lot in the XY series but he still made some rookie mistakes, but just not as much.

 

[CodeHelmet]

OS Kanto/Johto had higher ratings because of Pokemania, as you said before, and the fact that people didn't have access to watch anime episodes online at the time (the internet was still at its infancy). Everyone here has already mentioned good shows that still got low ratings due to their appeal to niche audiences, which you apparently ignored outright.



Ash also matured in Advanced and DP as well. It was only in Best Wishes that he got degraded to his rookie status before he went back to his matured status in XY.



Have you looked through other places of the internet? The DuckTales reboot was actually well-received by both critics and fans to the point that said fans are telling Cartoon Network to "take notes" due to the failure that was the PPG reboot. If you've gone to Star Wars News Network, then you would see that fans actually enjoyed Rebels, and it's clear that you've never seen the rest of the series because the rebels actually struggled against Thrawn, a fan favorite villain who originated from the expanded universe.

Putting my response in a spoiler seeing as it'll spoil things if you haven't seen SW Rebels.

Spoiler:

Not to get off topic but I've watched the Rebels series from start to finish(all 3 seasons so far) and Rebels is really, really, really good. The Empire does lose a lot but that's due to the Rebels being one step ahead of the Empire through intelligence(and a mole. I won't say who though) and through clever tactics(and in some cases sacrifice) come away with the victory but not always. In Season 3, Grand Admiral Thrawn, a character I wish had appeared in Episode VII, has made things very interesting and the Season 3 two-part finale is SOOO worth the watch(particularly if you enjoyed the Space Battle in the movie Rogue One, which by the way paid homage to the Rebels series if you pay close enough attention(General Syndula).

As for DuckTales, I'll admit its not half bad but I grew up on the 1980's version. Huey Duey and Louie don't bother me as much as Wendy. She's clearly not the same character as the 1980's counterpart. Plus other characters, particularly a missing Butler but a present Donald Duck completely change the dynamic I grew accustomed to. Art Style will take some getting used to as well but then again... I can't complain with Sun and Moon lol.

OS ratings were huge due to the show being at the height of popularity and the Internet still being in its infancy. As the show replaced notable characters(Misty -> May -> Dawn -> Iris -> Serena etc.), people's interest in the series(and ratings) declined while the internet matured and options at accessing content grew(leading to people cutting the cord altogether). Sun and Moon's ratings are bad but its been on a downward slope for a long time now. They just exacerbated things by experimenting and taking a cue from YKW.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

OS Kanto/Johto had higher ratings because of Pokemania, as you said before, and the fact that people didn't have access to watch anime episodes online at the time (the internet was still at its infancy). Everyone here has already mentioned good shows that still got low ratings due to their appeal to niche audiences, which you apparently ignored outright.



Ash also matured in Advanced and DP as well. It was only in Best Wishes that he got degraded to his rookie status before he went back to his matured status in XY.



Have you looked through other places of the internet? The DuckTales reboot was actually well-received by both critics and fans to the point that said fans are telling Cartoon Network to "take notes" due to the failure that was the PPG reboot. If you've gone to Star Wars News Network, then you would see that fans actually enjoyed Rebels, and it's clear that you've never seen the rest of the series because the rebels actually struggled against Thrawn, a fan favorite villain who originated from the expanded universe.

Actually, AG got even LESS ratings than in Johto, which was considered by many to be a bad saga, and THAT was still while the internet was in its infancy as well (this was before YouTube was a thing). As far as DP, it did slightly better than DP, but not by much.

And as far as Ash in AG and DP, quite frankly, one of the bigger reasons I'm not fond of Hoenn and AG is how it came across as exceedingly pointless, Ash staying at the exact same rank as before (I don't care if Ash used his team instead of his reserves this time around, if he doesn't advance in rank, he never actually grew stronger), May gets replaced with Dawn just to have her do the exact same goal, and the only real accomplishment in the saga Ash had, Battle Frontier, got treated as a joke. And quite frankly, I also didn't like how the Gym Leaders were basically treated like JJM in Ash Catches a Pokemon during that saga, or for that matter, like the Stormtroopers on Endor in Return of the Jedi, especially after the writers' callous treatment of Misty back in GCYL.

Spoiler:

Regarding Star Wars Rebels, I'll admit that I haven't watched the show especially considering that I no longer even have Disney Channel, let alone Disney XD, though I have followed it, and quite frankly, when the bad guys are using their own lightsabers as rotor blades to escape, essentially ripping off Maleficent only in a far more nonsensical manner, the Rebels actually had access to a superweapon that makes even the Sun Crusher seem reasonable by comparison, and the Empire, even WITH the mole bit, and even WITH Thrawn (whom I'll admit was definitely one of the better characters on the show), ends up coming across as LESS competent than what the opening scrawl for A New Hope implied, it's still a bad show. And I could care less what reviewers claim. Reviewers also claimed that The Master deserved every award out there, doesn't change that it's a very bad movie overall. Besides, the subreddit EmpireDidNothingWrong makes clear from some of its reviews that it wasn't really all that good of a show. And in any case, a lot of the Rebels actions on that show don't really match up with them being actually good people at all, especially when they, I don't know, committed a massacre against a civilian mining guild just to get their fuel, or heck, them bombing a parade. Now, Rogue One? That was definitely good overall, certainly a LOT better than that lame Force Awakens.). Look, when the first movie's opening specifically says, and I quote, "It is a period of civil war. Rebel spaceships, striking from a hidden base, have won their first victory against the evil Galactic Empire." That means they really shouldn't win any of their battles at all, winning only in the sense that they survived. Granted, this may have been due to a bit of pro-Imperial bias I recently adopted thanks to George Lucas's infamous admission that the Rebels were meant to be Vietcong expies and the Empire was meant to be America during Vietnam, but even if it weren't, I'd still stand by that largely because I believe in actually maintaining continuity. In other words, if the Rebels only "won their first victory" in Rogue One, don't depict them as having won multiple times before. And for Ducktales, like I said, I saw the trailer while watching YouTube, and it didn't come across as particularly impressive, especially considering Hewie, Dewie, and Louie sounded way too old especially considering their age. I watched the old cartoons on UPN-69 back when it was syndicating Pokémon, it came on immediately after that, and I definitely remember that Hewie, Dewie, and Louie sounding FAR closer to actual children there than in this... reboot.

 

[Pinkie-Dawn]

I didn't ignored anything. I gave you all of the facts why the ratings are not high like they were during the OS. You also forgetting the fact that the Pokemon anime was a new show back then and none of us knew anything about it at first, the only reason why the ratings were really high for the Original series is because it was brand new at the time.

Then why do you keep telling us that the Pokemon anime isn't good anymore after the Johto saga despite previous posts mentioning other series that wasn't Best Wishes were as good if not better than OS?

OS ratings were huge due to the show being at the height of popularity and the Internet still being in its infancy. As the show replaced notable characters(Misty -> May -> Dawn -> Iris -> Serena etc.), people's interest in the series(and ratings) declined while the internet matured and options at accessing content grew(leading to people cutting the cord altogether). Sun and Moon's ratings are bad but its been on a downward slope for a long time now. They just exacerbated things by experimenting and taking a cue from YKW.

They brought back Misty and Brock for a few episodes, but that didn't bring the ratings up, which means it shouldn't even matter because as others have said, it's the merchandise that matters.

 

[Piii]

Then why do you keep telling us that the Pokemon anime isn't good anymore after the Johto saga despite previous posts mentioning other series that wasn't Best Wishes were as good if not better than OS?



They brought back Misty and Brock for a few episodes, but that didn't bring the ratings up, which means it shouldn't even matter because as others have said, it's the merchandise that matters.

The fact is the OS was much better then the spinoffs, heck it even made it to the 85th spot something AG/DP/BW/XY fail to do. Look i'm not saying that the other Pokemon animes after the OS weren't any good, some of them were okay but OS was much better then them.

Ratings are very important and they do play a very important part on how long a tv show last or not.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

Then why do you keep telling us that the Pokemon anime isn't good anymore after the Johto saga despite previous posts mentioning other series that wasn't Best Wishes were as good if not better than OS?



They brought back Misty and Brock for a few episodes, but that didn't bring the ratings up, which means it shouldn't even matter because as others have said, it's the merchandise that matters.

Correction, the second Misty and Brock episode had SM having the highest ratings it ever got. Just ask Frozocrone, he made that much clear.

 

[Frozocrone]

Yeah, by about 0.2

It started out with 4.3 IIRC, so 4.5 is nothing to write home about.

I also don't see how it 'assures' Misty's return later.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

Yeah, by about 0.2

It started out with 4.3 IIRC, so 4.5 is nothing to write home about.

I also don't see how it 'assures' Misty's return later.

I thought you said it was the highest it's ever gotten. It's still a LOT better than the first episode for Misty and Brock's return, which did so badly in the ratings it didn't even make the top 10 if BanFairy's to be believed.

As far as how it "assures" Misty and Brock's return later, simple, the writers already had them promising Ash that they'll meet Ash in Alola, and considering the writers are obsessed with ratings, being the reason the show continues to exist, if it gets high ratings, at least by comparison to other episodes, that means it's well received enough to continue with it. Otherwise, if it had bad ratings, they wouldn't bother revisiting it. I've seen it happen before in other shows. Heck, even other movies.

 

[Piii]

Misty and Brock return episode should have had an higher rating, but for some reason it didn't. Besides the fact the return episode was way too overrush and the writers didn't do enough with Misty's and Brock's return.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

It means ratings don't mean squat especially nowadays. I've seen fillers get higher ratings than episodes where something important happens. There's just other means of watching now (and illegally streaming doesn't get counted in the ratings btw)

Yeah, tell that to GCB or Maureen or Heroes Reborn, or, heck, Doubt, even. And for the record, I can and have named quite a few Japanese shows that got cancelled due to bad ratings, some of which were fairly recent, including Bleach.

And for the record, Poke245 and Irregular Maverick X both stated that even among illegal streaming, it STILL got bad ratings, so there's that to be said as well.

 

[Alexander18]

The ratings are good enough for the show to keep airing. There is enough fans to keep it going. Even though i am not a fan of this saga/series, i do admit the show ratings is still strong.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

The ratings are good enough for the show to keep airing. There is enough fans to keep it going. Even though i am not a fan of this saga/series, i do admit the show ratings is still strong.

Yeah, I'm sorry, but I really doubt the show's ratings are even that good enough. I've seen shows get cancelled because of those ratings, both in America and ESPECIALLY in Japan.

 

[Alexander18]

Yeah, I'm sorry, but I really doubt the show's ratings are even that good enough. I've seen shows get cancelled because of those ratings, both in America and ESPECIALLY in Japan.

How bad are the ratings? If they are bad then why it is still going? Surely it would have been cancelled.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

How bad are the ratings? If they are bad then why it is still going? Surely it would have been cancelled.

From what I gather, at least until Episode 43, which had a 4.3, most of them ranked at most within the 3s, usually within the 2s or even the 1s. As far as why it hasn't been cancelled, who knows? Probably the same reason why Supergirl and 30 Rock didn't get cancelled DESPITE terrible ratings.

 

[Alexander18]

From what I gather, at least until Episode 43, which had a 4.3, most of them ranked at most within the 3s, usually within the 2s or even the 1s. As far as why it hasn't been cancelled, who knows? Probably the same reason why Supergirl and 30 Rock didn't get cancelled DESPITE terrible ratings.

I happen to like Supergirl and think the ratings for it is steady. But back on topic, the pokemon anime ratings are not low enough for it to be cancelled. Still popular for thr current and future viewers.

 

[The Mega Champion]

So... it looks like the English dub may be going on hiatus soon. There's not an English episode title for the episode after 'When Regions Collide.'

Although... that makes sense because that episode is the first episode of what I believe is the 'Ultra Sun/Moon' arc or whatever you want to call it.

So it looks like the English dub may be going on hiatus again soon. Let's just hope that this hiatus isn't as long as the last one is. Or maybe it's better if it is?

Who knows either way.