I didn't mean to suggest that Kasumi was created as a "test subject", but that future female companions (except maybe Serena, but we'll see where that goes) would go on to do far more than simply round out the group dynamics and that the writers deserve some praise for building on that.
Im of belief how value and importance of character isn't and should not be measured by how much someone does,
But in what he does and how much his presence embellish structure of anime, character interactions and overall plot. Impacting series in general with his antics, interests in life and various characteristics unique to him. Something Misty imo fulfilled quite nicely leaving big influence on plot and characters.
Btw overall Iris while may have got more focus on her dragon master dream, still received less focus and development than Misty had if you ask me. By character development im referring to changes in someone personality and attitude, external impacts, persons and obstacles left on someone causing him/her to change, improve and learn on past mistakes. Get over his emotional struggles and build himself as character.
The Pocket Monsters anime franchise in general is about adventure and the exploration of the Pokémon world, growing together with one's Pokémon and friends, etc. and the OS is really no different from AG - XY in that regard. I can't see this as an excuse for the lack of focus around Kasumi, and I don't see how it changes my point.
In addition, I think that you might be overstating the effectiveness of the original series anime on adults. I do admit that future shows talk down to the audience in a way that Kanto didn't do (Jouto, on the other hand, feels no different than anything else than anything else that came after), and maybe this is just me, but I can remember how adults, at least, the ones I knew, responded to the entire Pokémon craze. They thought it was the dumbest thing and wrote it off as yet another children's fad, no different than Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles or Power Rangers. And now that I'm an adult and can see the Pocket Monsters anime from an adult perspective, I truly believe the only reason I'm not instinctively rolling my eyes at any part of it is solely because I became hooked as a child.
I dont see it that way. Original series stick much less to frames dictated by games unlike it was case with following generations. Aside from gym leaders not many characters from games were included with most characters we saw in Kanto and Johto being mostly anime exclusive, interpretations coming from writers mind.
We had in general more of anime only mini side stories and arcs such as island of Giant pokemon, Whirl islands, side story with Sabrina, episodes dealing with abnormal pokemon (Tentacruel, Gengar, Alakazam) wanting to wreck whole world, mischief pokemon which supplied anime with various unique running gags which embellished series appeal making it more memorable and fun to follow. Whether we are talking about Jigglypuff, Snubull or Delibird.
There was whole anime only region in form of Orange Islands with gym leaders, league, champion , even challenges Ash had to pass in gyms being completely product of writers imagination tailoring anime to their own needs and desires.
With things not being subjected as much to game quests, game characters and plots or pokemon at that time. Which are much more prevalent with exploitment of their personalities and motives nowadays than humans themselves.
In comparison in original series from Kanto to end of Johto it was other way around with development of characters and friendship coming in first plan making me believe original cast in general had closer bond and friendship than any other cast which came later.
As such its not hard to notice how there existed interchangeable communication between all characters in main cast with no one ending neglected having their moments of annoyance, happiness, talks about their own dreams and issues but lighthearted jokes as well promoting friendship between protagonists which grow forward when exploring world in evoking, memorable manner.
Fact how writers followed games to much smaller degree back than often adding their own touch to episodes and stories they came up with brought more originality and unpredictability in this show since it didn't followed repetitive formula not being set up in advance what to expect next increasing people eagerness to stay tuned and see what will happen next. Which they succeed in to higher degree than its case nowadays with series formula and way things will be pan out being much more formulaic accompanied with various rehashes of what was seen numerous times before.
Moreover this doesn't just applies to Kanto and Orange Islands. But Johto as well because it was treated like direct sequel to what was established before. There were no new starts, regressions etc with Ash , Misty and Brock continuing from where they stopped. Building up on their team and skills as trainer, as well building up on friendship becoming more familiar and recognized with each other flaws with chemistry taking more mature spin to it.
There were lot of throwbacks to Kanto in appearances of Koga sister Aya, photohgrapher Todd, Duplica, Suzie etc. filling that saga with lot of continuity keeping ties with past(like proper anime should do to making story stronger that way) and many of episodes like "Just Waiting for a Friend", "For Crying Out Loud", "Fortune Hunters", "Forest Grumps" etc still contained certain level of darker, mysterious and expressive style first two seasoins had with Brock eccentric nature, Ash goofiness and Misty tender,sarcastic and hotheaded side. Promoting together sense of world building, strong unbreakable bonds friendship can create between people and excitement through never knowing what to expect during their voyage.
That level of maturity, emotion and unorthodox writing style can still be found in several Johto episodes such as "Just Waiting on a Friend", "Fortune Hunters", "Ignorance is Blissey", "Unbearable", "Beauty and a Breeder", "For Crying Out Loud", "Will Real prof. Oak Show Up" and several others.
Johto often receives lot of flack, with people developing misconception how it was just one big bag full of "fillers". Not bothering to watch whole saga through. To realize for themselves how many of episodes they dismissed as "irrelevant" contained actual character development, evolutions and captures, throwbacks to past and storyline which foreshadowed future events(one of examples being "Ring Masters" where Ash won Kings Rock foreboding Misty Poliwhirl evolution later on).
Pokemon anime in general followed different formula back than where exploration of character personalities, friendship, adventure aspect and emotional aspects of life had bigger priority than battling, pokemon training and focus on character careers. Hence being one of primary reasons behind Misty storyline not being explored as much as it could have been. It wasn't only reason because writing also took step for worse in Johto during middle of sagaswith things not starting to pick up until Master Quest,. But it was one of them.
So you're saying that Kasumi's primary purpose was to round out the main cast and be the token female character? I agree with that, and this is why I say that I find future female companions to be a general improvement - if not in actual execution, then at least in the intent. Not only do they contribute to the central group, but characters like Haruka and Hikari added to the show by having their own journeys and their own growth. I found that they made Advanced Generation and Diamond & Pearl a lot more fun to watch, because it wasn't just Satoshi's story we were following, but that of those characters as well. If Jouto has demonstrated anything to me it's that following a long anime with only Satoshi as the driving force behind it doesn't make for a very interesting show.
Not quite, i believe Misty purpose went beyond simple token girl which served as stabilizer in main cast of not having just cast made of males.
Sure you could say coordinators like May and Dawn had their own rivals, better expanded dreams and more focus on progress made in their careers.
But way i see it Misty arguably brought just as much on table, if not even more than other girls did since she beside her plots and story directly influenced plot of main protagonist and story of this anime in general. She served as catalyst through which Ash developed as trainer helping him to stand on two feet when starting out, often saved his and other people lives, took initiative in her hands preventing natural disasters caused by pokemon or human factor. Played fun subrole in many episodes bringing strong identity and charisma through her string presence not being dependent on structured plots like contests to give viewer impression that someone is active.
Along with having strongest personality out of all female companions imo bringing lot pf sarcasm, clash, comedy and conflict in main cast with her dreaming and romantic side adding extra flavor to group dynamics providing anime with extra twist through her insecure and shy outbursts not being your typical tsundere you can see on daily basis in other cartoons.
While having her motives and desires, quest of becoming water master, versatile and interesting line up of pokemon she collected during travels,sad and easy to relate background which greatly shaped in what person she became and development .
Which i can say turned out to be female protagonist whose personality and emotional growth was much, much bigger than Dawn or Iris had(goal development isn't same as character, personality development) with travels, struggles and experuence she gained affecting her just as much as it did May.
Regardless of Misty own dreams and aspirations being ignored for good chunk of time.
This is another area where I credit the writers for improving (again, more so in intent than actual execution at some points). The OS, specifically the Jouto episodes, feels so long because when the focus isn't on Satoshi's journey to the Pokémon League it often starts falling into repetitive filler episodes that center around one-shot characters and their problems. The other shows have this same problem too, but they cut back on the number of those with the introduction of Pokémon Contests, rivals, episodes that dealt with the cast's Pokémon and their training, mini-arcs, and an increased interest in the antagonists from the video games.
Result of Johto subpar writing had hardly much to do with Misty presence as main girl though.
Problems related to how this saga was written go much deeper and beyond than who was in main cast.,
Being result of: -writers inexperience never writing for long sagas wich last for 3 or 4 years having big problem with proper pacing and structure of story,
-drop of main driving force justifying Ash and co trip to Johto in first place(GS ball). Plot which supposed to turn in big storyline involving Celebii with Ash, Misty and Brock playing major part according to original plans. Losing their sense of direction and hitting brick wall after msain plan was abandoned not having backup plan developed until late 4th season, beginning of Master Quest which was heavily plot centric and filled with lot of character development.
-head writer at that time Takeshi Shudo often getting in disagreements with other members of writing staff and pokemon directors(chief director was and still is Yuyana Kunihiko, while anime director was i presume Masamitsu Hidaka)and certain member of staff called Omae Sama rejecting his plans and ideas how series should be written.
His train of thought was very different from other writers wanting to bring new level of innovation and creativity in story. He even stated in his blogs how he decided to create somewhat complex characters which to extent he succeeded in introducing main protagonists and TR, but due to marketing constraints and disputes with director he was never allowed to take them through deeper, more challenging development. Or take series story in entirely new direction treating it as cohesive on going adventure where each main character plays criucial role in trying to accomplish some bigger scope in journey aside from pursuing their dreams.
One of examples i brought up originally in this thread was intention for third pokemon movie containing real prehystoric T-rex revived from petrified fossils. He desired to add more realism to pokemon world (because references to real animals happened at times like ordinary fish or even dog being showed). Bringing new dimension to story perhaps better explaining pokemon origins and how pokemon came to planet earth. Now that i think about it that sounds like great material for some very fascinating and more profound plot.
But in end mr. Shudo vision of treating pokemon series as more family oriented show with some depth behind it was stopped in halt by higher staff members with marketing taking priority over original, well written storyline.
So you see Misty presence hardly has anything to do with possible drop in quality. Although i still am of belief how Master Quest should be evaluated separately being very enjoyable season filled with action, character development and story going fiorward. With Misty being more enjoyable and having actual, importance there.
Number of fillers decreased significantly, Misty and Brock received more focus, there were several arcs introduced which contributed to current plot(Like not just Whirl Cup, but whole Whirl Islands which were basically Misty centric, Red Gyarados, Lugia, Larvitar etc), gym leaders were depicted in better light (like Pryce and his past or Clair which pulled with itself mini arc about Dragonite) group pokemon started to gain better development along with Johto Silver Conference being one of best leagues we ever had.
I don't think I'd agree with that at all, at least not where Haruka and Hikari are concerned. Haruka became a more self-confident character whereas Hikari became a more independent one, and both of them had a variety of character traits. And it's not just that their goals were more explored, it's that they came off more complete and developed than Kasumi did. Kasumi's write-off episode was great, but her departure was ultimately unsatisfying because she was a character who rarely, if ever, was built to anything. You mentioned in an earlier post what a story needs. I would argue that Haruka and Hikari filled most, if not all, those criteria. Kasumi really didn't.
I'm not here to argue over whose personalities were more interesting or whatever, because that's purely a matter of what your opinion is. I also really don't want to get into one of those debates. But I will argue that Haruka and Hikari, I don't really have an opinion either way on Iris and Serena isn't done yet, were more developed in just about every way than she was. And that's one reason why I don't call the writers incompetent, at least not for replacing Kasumi.
May did changed alot emotionally, i can give you that. In growing to like pokemon, becoming less silly and dizzy in behavior compared to early, mid Hoenn becoming more confident, mature and collected as girl realizing what she wants from life and how to get there. Making me kinda proud how much she grew compared to her rookie days.
But Dawn? While she may have grew alot as coordinator, thats not same as emotional, personality growth.
I often felt that she didn't changed as person enough to match her struggles, effort and improvement as coordinator which would mold and leave bigger impact on her characterization taking away from depth of her story arc.
Being by end of journey just as girly, optimistic and interested in fashion or appearance like she was at start. Not saying she was exactly same because she went from overconfident to confident and became abit more humble after depression stereak she wen t through. But compared to other girls when comparing each of them from start to end of region/cameos Dawn changed the least giving out impression how she stagnated in that sense. At least in my opinion it seemed that way.,
With Misty most, if not all character development she experienced was in maturing in personality, emotional aspect. Its not very hard to deduce how when looking at Misty character from early Kanto days and during chronicles, Hoenn appearances this character went through some serious and highly notable changes and growth.
Like i mentioned before:
Because of sisters downplaying her being viewed as "useless runt" this caused revolt in Misty character wanting to prove that she is better than them which set up ground for deciding to become water master in first place. Because of this character toughen up feeling inferior to them with confidence being staggered,with temper being used as mask to hide her flaws leaving negative effect on her mental state(in my post above i explained it more thoroughly).
Over time as Misty became more open to Ash and Brock establishing strong friendship,she started to reveal more about her past over time softening up. Thanks to winning Princess festival, coming top 8 in Whirl Cup,being recognized by several trainers like Dorian,Andreas,Trinity, Marina from Orange Islands etc as good water trainer which has talent character started to gain more confidence in her own abilities realizing that she isnt in any way inferior than Daisy,Lily and Violet are.
Thanks to this she managed to take on mentor and older sister role to other characters who suffered from similar issues such as Sakura helping her about same issue with older siblings and whn she took over gym at end of Johto getting it back on right track character gained sisters respect becoming filled with sense of accomplishment, becoming more confident and independent restoring bad relationship she used to have with them in past.
Being along with May character which changed the most as person.
Thats not same as someone goals and affinities being explored and developed as much as they could obviously. Because in that aspect writers left many things unfinished and alot more to be desired.
In goal structure, fleshing out of someone dream and ambitions, pokemon team and consistent storyline which is well connected, obviously your right. Misty was handled pretty subpar compared to other girl protagonists. But i cannot pretend like everything was handled worse about her, and i have to give writers credit.
In having what in my opinion appeared to be one of most believable growths character went through in show gradually(though that process was rather slow) growing in mature, independent person through friends help, as well stronger trainer coming long way since early days when she just wanted to run away from sister shadow being full of insecurity and self doubts.
While delivering lot of lively atmosphere, sense of justice and proactive solutions in moving things forward with her curious, definat characterization. Often being possible to feel Misty presence because of taking part in various activities and through deducing and actively coming up with ideas and plans helping toi push other characters, story and problems forward gaining some knowledge. Even if it wasn't directly linked to her own dreams and aspirations.
What im trying to say is how looking back there were things at which writers handled Misty better than they did with other girls. And vice versa with other girls receiving better treatment in some other areas where Misty character didn't excell as much.
With each girl having its weak and strong sides.
I'm afraid I don't understand how the writing "took a plunge" in that area after Kasumi left. Just about every female companion to have come after Kasumi (excepting Serena, maybe) experienced all of that in active pursuit of their goals. Hikari had an entire arc dedicated to setting up a trial and overcoming it with the Mikuri Cup. I really don't remember any occasions where Kasumi had anything close to that, or moments like Haruka losing her second Grand Festival and questioning the path her journey would be taking after. If anything, I think the writing in that aspect improved. At least, where Kasumi's replacements are concerned.
It depends on how you look at it. You view Misty removal as move which allowed pokemon series to grow and explore new concepts with character standing in way of that.
With me, i consider Misty leaving to be mistake because it lead to losing great deal of comedy, identity and playful charm her unique and varied personality brought knowing how to pull out anger and agitation from others leading to amusing conflicts, how to establish strong friendship with others helping them to find themselves in romance or e courage to keep trying and do their best like she did with Brock being complete and complex as character bringing lot of turbulent turmoils and colorful interactions within cast,. Along with having compelling story and dream of becoming master of type she adores(water), aspiration to learn as much as she can about various pokemon, catch legendary type or connect with him making herself known and recognized among other experts of such profession. Become powerful as E4 members, like LOrekei she worships so much.
She undeniably had lot of potential waiting to be explored, unique relationship with pokemon(like Psyduck), interesting history and family from which she came opening array of possibilities waiting to be done.
Which was was poor and bad move in my opinion with writers not thinking far enough in what consequences this move would cause. Resulting in possibly biggest and most intense backlash i ever saw for any replaced companion, with no fans being as adamant and passionate over writers bringing Misty back with any other replaced character. I came on internet in 2002/2003, and complaining was huge at that time. Liking her varied characterization and being dsisappointed that story was left unfinished with lot of materias to be done much more never being used, feeling Misty left prematurely.
Especially when taken in account how Hoenn was dappled with many interesting plots like Kyogre and Team Aqua, experts like Juan and Wallace. 9th movie being all about water and prince of sea Manaphy, all those islands, oceans, lakes where more tournaments like Whirl Cup, introduction of bug water pokemon like Surskit which evolves in Masquerain(not hard to deduce how would this be great way to give Misty more development) could be made advancing her story.
When even writers themselves admit how they removed Misty without exploring her enough, than any further debate of their incompetence in removing characters before its time becomes superfluous.
I get that's what Shudo might have been aiming for, and it doesn't surprise me that he thought the show he worked on is the best, but I'm not convinced that he's not overselling the quality. Kanto does have its advantages in that its fillers are a lot less formulaic than what comes afterwards in Jouto and beyond, but I never found the original Pocket Monsters deep or complex at any point, and I can't think of anyone who ever did. Similarly, I never found its characters deep. It may have been a more dynamic show, but it wasn't any more layered than the shows that came afterwards.
Personally i dont only think that Kanto, but Johto as well in its better parts contained more layers and depth in someone characterization. Than anything else which came afterwards. Filled with deeper, more original arcs and subjects. Like dealing with pretty dark and intricate backtory about Mewtwo, even for pokemon standards. Developing hatred and resentment toward humans killing all scientists on island starting to question its own existence and what purpose he really serves. Prequel to Mewtwo movie introducing girl Amber which spent whole life in tube telling Mewtwo to continue living never having chance to live herself experiencing all its charms and positive things realizing how end is near dying shortly afterwards .
Invoke of mega big pokemon like Alakazam and Gengar threatening to destroy world in apocalyptic like scenario, even Johto side adventures like Whirl islands and Whirl Cup brimming with mystery and connection to ancient times theme etc regarding ancient sea sprits and heroes which controled water poikemon. Mystery about Silver Wing, baby Lugia and its mother being imprisoned. Focus on first and only time in pokemon anime history character with serious mental disorder, introducing concept of split personality through Sabrina which became psychotic because of being treated as outcast and feared by everyone, developing pleasure to hurt others.
Brock sad background in being abandoned with younger siblings by parents, having to take over parental role in taking care of them and put his own dreams and desires aside to take care of Pewter gym and his family. Developing guardian, protective feelings toward his brothers and sisters trying to escape from reality and this way of living.
Misty losing parents at very young age being constantly degraded by everyone else and her sisters; who deconstructed her confidence and security as character. Becoming rough and mistrustful , creating facade to hide her own vulnerability and weakness she had as person and trainer. Having emotional struggles, coping with it and developing need to be independent and headstrong. Due to experiences from past not wanting to receive pity and depend on anyone.
Real use of fire arms, guns, tanks, bazookas or bombs. Such as in giant Tentacruel invading Porta Vista city. Pokemon ranger pointing gun at Ash starting to fire, same with TR putting gun on ranger head. Rocket trio using bombs and explosives, or Ash and co meeting officer Jenny which developed special squad in fighting criminals with fire arms through Growlith disabling thief.
Receiving sequel in Johto through Giovanni launching massive operation in finding Mewtwo and his clone brethen. Diving deeper in mewtwo thoughts, conceot of death, will there ever be peace and place where he could live far away from humans, being painfully aware of being viewed as outcast.
Illustrated and inspiring storyline from third movie featuring Molly Hale who as result of feeling lonely, confused and scared looking for mother care and father protection. Caused that through Unknown her thoughts and needs manifest themseklves in reality resulting in Ash mother being kidnapped.
Giving to us various pretty tame stories such as of 200 years old NInetales from Johto waiting for its master, not realizing it has died.
Gym leader Price suffering heavy burns from fireblast to protect its pokemon in youth. Becoming over the years cold hearted, embittered person which lost faith in developing bond with pokemon after thinking that Piloswine betrayed him.
Etcetra, etcetra.
Not saying how there didn't existed sad or more mature storylines in AG, DP, BW(because Hunter J, Cyrus from Team Galactic, king of pokelantis from Hoenn posessing Ash body, Dawn depression, N trying to release pokemon from human influence etc instantly come to mind for example).
But in general i felt under mr. Shudo batton and sometime after his leaving from place of head writer for series. World in pokemon anime was portrayed as darker, more tougher place to live in with gym leaders often being portrayed in bearish, robust style like lt. Surge whoch demanded discipline putting opponent pokemon to hospital, or people they came across being frauds and manipulators like that kid with Farfetched which stealed from other people. Manipulation of pokemon evolution causing Gyarados to forcefully evolve(one which Lance cauight), Latios death or all those huge tear jerkers(like PIkachu and Butterfree goodbye, Misty and Brock leaving ASh etc packed with immense emotion, sadness and suspense).
As well several episodes dealing with psychological issues, someone trauma and developed misconceoptions about certain pokemon species bringing extra depth to story and whole adventure.
Backed with strong, spontaneolus and organic chemistry between original trio managing to carry out message of adventure pokemon tried to promote and companions which have fun together , exploring world, new places, people and creatures while pursuing different dreams in realistic, simplified and inbred manner.
Resulting in highest number of banned episodes comes exactly from older series. Coincidence or not OS were only time where real blood was showed too never happening again.
Drawing paralel of mr. Shudo trying to write for Kanto, Orange and to extent Johto as anime aimed not just for kids, but teenagers, adults, elders etc with more mature and sophisticated level of writing being present in it in my view. Alongside more passion and heart in developing plot.
