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Should the USA ban guns?

curiousnathan

curiousnathan

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    • Do you think the USA should ban guns?

    Other interesting points to think about:
    • Is it necessary to carry around a loaded firearm?
    • Are guns valued over the preservation of life?
    • Are guns tools that preserve or destroy life?
    • Is it a human right to carry a firearm?
    • How many more innocent people must die before major changes are made?
     
    starseed galaxy auticorn

    starseed galaxy auticorn

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    • No, but I do think we should have gun laws that prevent violence. Basically, I think that there should be ways to prevent a mentally-ill person from obtaining them so easily. This is not to say that ALL mentally-ill people kill others, but that some just choose to make bad choices. That's why we should have laws that can provide background checks for these people. Either that, or some other way that could prevent them from those horrible choices they make.
     
    gimmepie

    gimmepie

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    • Nathan... I swear to God.

    Anyway, I don't believe an outright ban is warranted in the US. However far more stringent gun control is needed to put an end to the rampant gun-culture in the country. Now to answer your questions.

    Is it necessary to carry around a loaded firearm?
    No, it isn't. This is more likely to create danger than prevent it.

    Are guns valued over the preservation of life?
    In the US there are lot of people who this seem to be true of. As a rule though I don't think we should generalise since there are people in the country with some sense.

    Are guns tools that preserve or destroy life?
    Guns are, by definition, a weapon. They are not designed to preserve life they're designed to take it as quickly and efficiently as possible.

    Is it a human right to carry a firearm?
    I think people confuse a humans right to life and liberty and to self-defence with the right to walk around with a weapon. The US bill of rights does allow for this, but it's an outdated amendment that needs a lot of further amending.

    How many more innocent people must die before major changes are made?
    That's a good question and one I can't give a definitive answer for. I don't know how many more innocent people need to die due to gun violence before US society will as a whole realise it is long passed a time for change. I think there is hope though, since there are anti-gun activists who are almost as vocal as the gun nuts.

    I don't see the change happening in the near future, but I hold out hope that it will come in my lifetime.

    I'm also happy I live in Australia where we dealt with the problem as soon as it became apparent there was one. Instead of living in the US where half the population make sense and the other half are living in denial.
     
    ShinyUmbreon189

    ShinyUmbreon189

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    • K
    curiousnathan said:
    Do you think the USA should ban guns?
    Click to expand...
    No. Why take away a right given to us by our founding fathers? Guns aren't just used for killing people, they can be used for many different things. Like hunting.


    Is it necessary to carry around a loaded firearm?
    In some circumstances yes. In a city like Detroit, Chicago, Oakland, St. Louis, New Orleans, etc where crime is really high it's better to have protection than not. Or walking around in the woods with a rifle hunting is another example.

    Are guns valued over the preservation of life?
    Only by the nutcase conservatives in this country.

    Are guns tools that preserve or destroy life?
    Neither. Obviously a gun can save yours or a family members life while at the same time resulting badly if a child got ahold of the gun. Which is why there are safes. But some parents don't know proper gun safety, those are the ones that could potentially destroy a life.

    Is it a human right to carry a firearm?
    No. Some people aren't allowed to carry or even own a fiream due to lack of psychological testings or criminal issues. Also for those allowed, it's a privelage that should not be infringed.

    How many more innocent people must die before major changes are made?
    I don't see how this makes sense? Guns don't kill people, people kill people. You can throw a ban on guns all you want but it wont change the fact if someone wants a gun they'll obtain one. You can buy a gun for $100 if not cheaper in the streets of Chicago. https://www.wbez.org/shows/wbez-new...eir-guns/8e5e3e73-3b26-495b-a575-d6b725528abb The city of Chicago has the strictest gun laws in America yet it's got the biggest issues in firearm murders. http://wgntv.com/2016/02/16/chicagos-gun-violence-continues-to-climb-in-2016/
    So tell me how that happens with strict gun laws? Chicago is not far from a gun free zone yet there's shootings everyday and practically a murder a day. Last year there were close to 500 murders from guns alone.

    So in theory, if you ban guns it wont change. Killers will still use guns, guns can still be purchased through the black market, people will start using knives, machetes, rocks, etc to kill someone. Anything can be used as a weapon so if you ban guns, ban everything that be a potential use as a weapon.
     
    Last edited:
    Jetfire

    Jetfire

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    • curiousnathan said:
    Do you think the USA should ban guns?
    No.
    Other interesting points to think about:
    • Is it necessary to carry around a loaded firearm?
      In some cases, yes it is necessary. I came from a rough neighborhood and protection was definitely necessary.
    • Are guns tools that preserve or destroy life?
      Neither. A gun can protect my family from a criminal. However, a gun is an extremely deadly tool. One must handle it with care and keep it in a safe location to prevent deadly accidents.
    • Is it a human right to carry a firearm?
      No. A firearm isn't something we need. However, it's an available option for those who would like an extra sense of security.
    • How many more innocent people must die before major changes are made?
      Creating more gun laws do not stop criminals. They're criminals. They're disobeying the law to begin with. Creating more laws on top of the ones now would only infringe the millions of law abiding citizens in this country.
    Click to expand...
     
    Neil Peart

    Neil Peart

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    • Is it necessary to carry around a loaded firearm?

    If this wasn't such a trigger-happy country, I'd say no, not at all. However, given the fact that people seem to like to shoot other people in mass numbers lately, I'd feel safer with a firearm at my hip, and I don't want to disabuse anyone of that notion.

    Are guns valued over the preservation of life?

    Conservatives seem to think so. In fact, conservatives generally value pretty much everything over human life, provided that life is outside the womb.

    Are guns tools that preserve or destroy life?

    Look at war. One says it's necessary to keep us free and safe from terrorists and all that shit. The other says it's straight up murder. This one is a pick 'em.

    Is it a human right to carry a firearm?

    No, it's a privilege that should be stripped if abused.

    How many more innocent people must die before major changes are made?

    Get the Republican party out of this country and we can talk about progress.
     
    ShinyUmbreon189

    ShinyUmbreon189

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    • UndertakerFreak1127 said:
    Get the Republican party out of this country and we can talk about progress.
    Click to expand...

    So only the Democratic Party should be allowed in this country? Sounds like something a liberal would say so they have no one to argue with (I'm a Libertarian btw so labeling me Republican won't work. I hate both sides equally so if you remove one remove the other).
    Also, what makes you think that would change anything? You really think if guns were banned it would stop crime? Here's the liberal logic... "If you ban guns nobody will have a gun". Uhh, says who? Let's ban heroin, crack, meth, etc as well. Oh wait, it already is and guess what? People still do it!! Liberals are blind to the fact that criminals are criminals, they don't care about the law either way so if they want something they'll get it.
     
    gimmepie

    gimmepie

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    • ShinyUmbreon189 said:
    So only the Democratic Party should be allowed in this country? Sounds like something a liberal would say so they have no one to argue with (I'm a Libertarian btw so labeling me Republican won't work. I hate both sides equally so if you remove one remove the other).
    Also, what makes you think that would change anything? You really think if guns were banned it would stop crime? Here's the liberal logic... "If you ban guns nobody will have a gun". Uhh, says who? Let's ban heroin, crack, meth, etc as well. Oh wait, it already is and guess what? People still do it!! Liberals are blind to the fact that criminals are criminals, they don't care about the law either way so if they want something they'll get it.
    Click to expand...

    You are aware that the black market isn't like a walmart where you can just walk in and buy an ak-47 and an 8-ball, right? Not everyone has criminal connections.

    On top of that when things are illegal they also tend to be extremely expensive on the black market. That's why drug cartels get rich and addicts who aren't already rolling in it end up very poor. The same sort of logic goes with guns.
     
    ShinyUmbreon189

    ShinyUmbreon189

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    • gimmepie said:
    You are aware that the black market isn't like a walmart where you can just walk in and buy an ak-47 and an 8-ball, right? Not everyone has criminal connections.

    On top of that when things are illegal they also tend to be extremely expensive on the black market. That's why drug cartels get rich and addicts who aren't already rolling in it end up very poor. The same sort of logic goes with guns.
    Click to expand...

    You don't need connects to cartels or anything. I can go to the hood of Chicago give them a Franklin and drive away with a pistol, no questions asked. They just want money. But at the same time there's risks of a rival gang seeing it then yeah you already know. So yes, buying a gun is sorta like Wal-mart. It's that easy. Getting a gun would be as easy as getting illegal drugs.

    Also. Why ban something the law abiding citizens should be priveleged to have? Not everyone has a gun and plans to catch a body with it. My grandfathers a military vet and gun collector. Guess what? He's 70 years old and NEVER used it on a human.
     
    gimmepie

    gimmepie

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    • ShinyUmbreon189 said:
    You don't need connects to cartels or anything. I can go to the hood of Chicago give them a Franklin and drive away with a pistol, no questions asked. They just want money. But at the same time there's risks of a rival gang seeing it then yeah you already know. So yes, buying a gun is sorta like Wal-mart. It's that easy. Getting a gun would be as easy as getting illegal drugs.
    Click to expand...

    Most of those guns probably started out being legally purchased. The less readily available they are, the more expensive they'll become on the black market.

    Also. Why ban something the law abiding citizens should be priveleged to have? Not everyone has a gun and plans to catch a body with it. My grandfathers a military vet and gun collector. Guess what? He's 70 years old and NEVER used it on a human.
    Click to expand...

    I don't want a gun ban, I want gun control. There's a difference.
     
    Pebbles

    Pebbles

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    • how about we ban guns and such from the entire world....
    all that crap gone... what good does it bring to the world anyway? seriously
    to be able to protect yourself from evil people? but most of the time evil people kill and attack with guns and such... if there were no guns, they wouldn't be able to threaten to kill you so easily and you wouldn't have such a big reason to think you need something to protect yourself other than your fists​
     
    ShinyUmbreon189

    ShinyUmbreon189

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    • gimmepie said:
    Most of those guns probably started out being legally purchased. The less readily available they are, the more expensive they'll become on the black market.
    Click to expand...

    Gang bangers don't buy guns legally, they're criminals not law abiding citizens. Why would they buy a pistol for $400 and sell it for $100 or less? Makes no sense. You can buy a full auto handgun (Mac 11, uzi, etc) for about $250. If you want an ak give them about $400-500. Hell you can purchase a fully auto gun with a laser sight, suppressor, and extended clip if you really wanted in the streets. Which in most cases illegal.



    I don't want a gun ban, I want gun control. There's a difference.
    Click to expand...

    Define gun control.. Chicago has gun control yet look at the crime rate compared to more populated areas (LA and New York) for example. Gun control doesn't work.
     

    Kanzler

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    • ShinyUmbreon189 said:
    Define gun control.. Chicago has gun control yet look at the crime rate compared to more populated areas (LA and New York) for example. Gun control doesn't work.
    Click to expand...

    Can you imagine Chicago without gun control though? Wouldn't crime and violence be even more out of control? That's kind of like having a bandage over a wound but the wound's still bleeding so you're like well this bandage obviously doesn't work so let's get rid of it.
     
    ShinyUmbreon189

    ShinyUmbreon189

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    • Kanzler said:
    Can you imagine Chicago without gun control though? Wouldn't crime and violence be even more out of control? That's kind of like having a bandage over a wound but the wound's still bleeding so you're like well this bandage obviously doesn't work so let's get rid of it.
    Click to expand...

    Crimes been getting worse in Chicago the last couple years. Chicago wants a full ban when they know it wouldn't work. You can't ban and expect them to follow the rules. I don't like the idea of only politicians being protected by people with guns.
     
    Jetfire

    Jetfire

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    • Kanzler said:
    Can you imagine Chicago without gun control though? Wouldn't crime and violence be even more out of control? That's kind of like having a bandage over a wound but the wound's still bleeding so you're like well this bandage obviously doesn't work so let's get rid of it.
    Click to expand...

    Guns aren't causing the crime. It's the individuals wielding it that are committing it. I'll admit that there are gun law loopholes that need to be changed. However, taking away the gun isn't going to stop the crime. Those gang members aren't going to suddenly become best of friends. No. They're going to use whatever is at their disposal to attack whoever they see as their enemy.

    Gang violence are the leading cause of homicides in the US. What they need to do is do something about those thugs. I've seen too much gang violence in my life.
     

    Kanzler

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    • Jetfire said:
    Guns aren't causing the crime. It's the individuals wielding it that are committing it. I'll admit that there are gun law loopholes that need to be changed. However, taking away the gun isn't going to stop the crime. Those gang members aren't going to suddenly become best of friends. No. They're going to use whatever is at their disposal to attack whoever they see as their enemy.

    Gang violence are the leading cause of homicides in the US. What they need to do is do something about those thugs. I've seen too much gang violence in my life.
    Click to expand...

    Guns do in part cause crime because of how easy to kill with them. It's like the fire triangle - you need heat, fuel, and oxygen to start a fire. If you're missing an ingredient, you don't have a fire. But if you add more of an ingredient, you get a bigger fire. If you get rid of guns, you'll have still have a fire, but you'll have a smaller fire. That matters, doesn't it? I cannot for the life of me believe that people sincerely think that having less crime is somehow equivalent to the status quo.
     
    Jetfire

    Jetfire

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    • Kanzler said:
    Guns do in part cause crime because of how easy to kill with them. It's like the fire triangle - you need heat, fuel, and oxygen to start a fire. If you're missing an ingredient, you don't have a fire. But if you add more of an ingredient, you get a bigger fire. If you get rid of guns, you'll have still have a fire, but you'll have a smaller fire. That matters, doesn't it? I cannot for the life of me believe that people sincerely think that having less crime is somehow equivalent to the status quo.
    Click to expand...

    Listen, if it wasn't for a gun I wouldn't be here having this conversation with you.

    My father went through the entire legal process to acquire a firearm with the idea of protecting his family. Unfortunately it happened. Like Johnny said, guns destroy more than they preserve but in my case it preserved my family's life.
     
    Nihilego

    Nihilego

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    • Nathan, I really feel like you're making controversial threads just for the sake of it. ):

    Regardless, though, I'll bite. It baffles me that anyone would believe that they have the "right" to the means end the life of another human being at any time that they choose. Guns exist to kill, or to threaten to kill, and despite this extreme purpose they're considered "normal" in American culture. Many consider it acceptable to have lethal force available for you to use should you feel that it is necessary. The result is disproportionately high firearm crime and mass killings. People with guns kill people, and taking away the gun part would at least be a start in bringing America's embarrassing gun crime statistics in line with other developed countries.
     

    Kanzler

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    • Jetfire said:
    Listen, if it wasn't for a gun I wouldn't be here having this conversation with you.

    My father went through the entire legal process to acquire a firearm with the idea of protecting his family. Unfortunately it happened. Like Johnny said, guns destroy more than they preserve but in my case it preserved my family's life.
    Click to expand...

    I'm happy that you were defended thanks to a firearm, but we have to look at the bigger picture. I am convinced that any society would be safer if nobody had guns. I am also convinced that American society would still be safer if guns were less abundant than they are today. I understand that a lot of the motivation for getting a gun is rooted in very relevant problems today, but like you said, guns destroy more than they preserve. The long term goal should be to significantly regulate the firearm market so it's not so easy for them to fall into the hands of those who would cause us harm. I don't know how we'll get there, but I am convinced that it's what the end state should look like.
     
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