RNG

As many of us know, RNG (random number generator) can play a very big role in many games. Games like Hearthstone that have quite a bit of RNG are often considered both fun and infuriating to players. Some gamers argue that RNG adds a necessary bit of uniqueness and fun to a game, whereas others argue that it can sometimes negate the skill required to play the game.

What do you think about RNG in video games? Do you think it can make a game more fun? What are some examples of RNG in games that you like or dislike?

For myself, and I use Destiny as a baseline, I prefer RNG when it takes into account what you have and what you don't have (which in a way I suppose contradicts the pure definition of 'RNG.') Exotic weapons and armors, the highest level gear in the game works so you have a higher chance of getting an item that you don't already have. That's the way it should work in all: if getting a certain class item is rare, you should have a higher chance to get something you don't have.

But all and all, fuck RNG. All it results in is grinding and unnecessarily prolongs a game to make it seem like you are actually getting your money's worth.

As for me, I have mixed feelings when it comes to RNG. I think it has the potential to be good for some games to mix it up a bit and not make things so formulaic and bland, but at the same time, it's so frustrating when, even when the maximum amount of possible skill is shown, there is still a chance that RNG can completely change the direction of things, often in a negative way. Pure RNG based mechanics in a game are no fun for me.

But yeah, I think if applied correctly, RNG can add a little fun, as long as it doesn't contradict the amount of skill required.

Since you mentioned Hearthstone - RNGsus hates me, you know this :'( That feel when half your deck is 3 mana and below, and you don't draw a playable card until turn 5. My luck is incredible.

But it's kind of a necessary component in some games - with card games like Hearthstone, you can't not have RNG determine what card you draw next, at the very least, since card games in their nature are a bit luck-based.

I definitely like to be able to control outcomes and I do what I can to eliminate as much randomness as possible - I get pretty salty when I lose to bad luck, lol. But some people really embrace the RNG and build decks around it (Casino Mage, Yogg, etc), which is kind of interesting; if I played those decks they'd drive me nuts.

It could be good, sometimes. Depends on how it's applied.

I've seen it done well sometimes. If it's used to balance an overpowered skill- or a skill overpowered at that point in the game, at least. Say, for example, you have a skill that instantly kills an enemy, but you get it fairly early on in the game; if there was a 100% chance that the attack would hit it would be pretty broken, but if it had a 10% chance, it would help to balance it out.

Of course, there are a million and one other factors in that, but it's an example.

Also, I think randomized loot can be absolutely atrocious. If it takes a lot of different factors into account it could be a lot better (Like giving you items that you can actually use, for example.) I'll always prefer when rewards are hand picked, but that isn't always practical, either.

Oh and I also hate when RNG can completely screw you over when it feels like it.

I hate RNG, and RNG hates me.

Any game I play with it, I'm seen as really underpowered for me level because I NEVER get any top-line equipment from RNG EVER.

Destiny is my most recent example. The only reason I've had any exotics is because I've bought them from Xur. I've been grinding for two weeks for a Sublime arm engram to get the Jovian Guard arm pieces, but RNG only gives me the stupid asthmanaut (spelt wrong on porpoise) arms even though I've gotten multiple of these stupid things. Two weeks with no results in not acceptable. Trying to do one thing for two weeks straight is not a fun time. (why can't they make it more like open world Halo. It's lore pretty much already is)

This happens in almost any game I play with RNG being a main factor. I'm still hoping to get a 3 year old weapon mod in Payday 2 for example. (three years...)

I never see a reason for RNG in any of my genres. Keep it in those crappy JRPGs.

RNG only adds frustration most of the time. Games like XCOM have so many things to praise, but in the end the RNG really gets in the way of enjoyment when the enemy hits you with low% while you miss your 80-90% shots.

Depends on the game, certainly. In MMOs it's a solid way to make the player play longer. Couldn't very well say that it adds to my enjoyment of the game, and in most cases I would actually say that it's what drives me away from the games to begin with or makes me despise the practice to some degree, though I have to wonder if my problem there is with the grinding or RNG specifically. That in mind, Fire Emblem Awakening and XCom are also things.

That in mind, I couldn't well say that it's always bad. I mean, if were just talking about loot that's one thing, but it also refers to the chance that a monster will Spohn or the chance that an enemy will do a certain attack, and in some cases I think that can be fun. I'd like a dynamic experience and that makes for a dynamic experience, so it's hard for me not to be down. Games like Dragon Age and Neverwinter Nights use this for conversation, and depending on the way you play can make the overall game more interesting depending on the outcome. So, in the sense that you can add unpredictability to what would be a static encounter, yeah, I do think it can be fun. It's all about context, really. And design philosophy. After all, in the cases where people would normally agree that is isn't fun, it probably wasn't meant to be to begin with.

Satoshi Ookami said:

Yea...
just no.

RNG is a bad way how to increase frustration.
Especially if you need that one specific drop from specific enemy that has 1% chance to spawn and 0.5% chance to drop the item.
Yea, no fun.

Click to expand...

I don't see why we're limiting it to just drop rate, though. It's used for things like damage calculation, AI behavior, really anything random...

...I mean, maybe it's me and I'm just looking at the wrong thing here, but looking at the whole gambit definitely gives a different picture than simply the time stretching design choice that is drop chance.

Fuck drop chance, btw.

What's the game with the worst RNG drop and why is it Dragon Ball Xenoverse? I really loved that game, but having to grind the same stage 50 times hoping to get the entire outfit set is just bad game design. I'd rather have the drop be based on a hard challenge than RNG. Like finish the task in a set time, specific method, anything but the luck of RNG.

The only time RNG is good is if

A) There is no other way to decide it (like random enemy encounters, inflicting status conditions, deciding what the AI does, etc)

B) It's a single player game where the game wants to give you a really satisfying to use attack but make it only do normal damage sometimes so it doesn't end up as a game breaker.

In a multiplayer, "every X hits/uses/etc Y happens" is way better so you don't get cheated by RNG.

I have a love hate relationship with RNG when it comes to mechanics such as critical strikes, where in most video games that use the mechanic, Critical strikes or critical hits are based on a % chance of occurence rather than a more context sensitive mechanic (context sensitive in my sense means either it occurs because you hit the enemy at a certain angle or area).

My Tryndamere
80% Critical Strike chance = in actuality crits for only 10/20 hits

Enemy Tryndamere
15% Crit strike chance = crits for 3 times in an interval of 2 strikes. So that's around 5/10... fcuk math.

Also, i think people who have played Fire Emblem may also hate how a 75% Hit chance can miss and an enemy's 45% hit chance can hit AND EVEN CRIT.

Or even better.. those who play/have played Dota2 may remember how BS the RNG of critical strikes are in that game since they basically tried to copy-paste the Warcraft 3 engine into a source based game.. 15% Chance to crit, yet its so possible for someone like Mortred with her signature ability Coup de Grace (15% Chance to crit for 2.5x/3.5x/4.5x DAMAGE) to crit someone several times a second despite being only at 15%.

Or for those who play Borderlands 2 and roll with Krieg the Psycho.. i think everyone remembers Silence the Voices and HUGE Melee damage boost along with its infamous "12% chance to Melee self" drawback.

The thing with video game RNG though is that we mostly remember the times that an occurrence we do not want to happen, such as missing an attack or not critting, while we care less about the times when the outcome we want to occur happens (proccing the crit, actually hitting the person, etc).

Drop chances are something that have really been frustrating me lately. In World of Warcraft, trying to collect mounts from raids when they have like a 1% chance of dropping from a boss is so infuriating, especially since you're only allowed to do some raids like once a week. This is annoying because it's like I only get a 3-4% chance of getting the mount I want each month.

Maybe this is because of my computer science background, but the idea of hating random number generators is totally alien to me. It's not a matter of "good thing" or "bad thing," it's about when it's essential. Think about some of the oldest elements of games (not just video games, games in general): cards, dice, gambling. All of these things have to do with calculated uncertainty, and RNG is just the way you implement that in normally deterministic computer code.

How boring would any RPG be without random numbers? Heck, this is a Pokemon forum! How is a mechanic like Sand Attack supposed to work without RNG? Can you imagine playing Dungeons and Dragons without the roll of the dice? Why do we expect something different of video game RPGs? Yes, you'll get bad outcomes. Sometimes things with low odds will happen that screw you over. And there are good outcomes that have low odds because they're supposed to be rare, exciting occurrences. RPGs in particular aren't supposed to be games of pure skill--they're more like poker; it's as much about risk management as anything.

Or sports. Let's consider a baseball video game. If these were purely skill-based with no RNG, you'd theoretically be able to control a batter and get a base hit every time provided you had speedrunner-like timing and knowledge of the system. But that's not baseball. The last Major League player to hit over .400 was Ted Williams in 1941--to clarify, getting a hit 40% of the time at the top level of baseball makes you an instant legend. The entire idea of baseball breaks down if there's a way to hit perfectly, and barring a stupidly perfect physics simulator and an input system that's as complicated as actual baseball, the only way of programming this game is to use RNG to handle the bad luck.

There's a place for games that have no RNG. Games like Super Mario Bros. work fine without them, and two-player games like Street Fighter are probably better without them (outside of AI). But games like Pokemon couldn't work without them unless they had code of such intricacy and complexity that it's effectively the same as RNG.

I guess that was kind of a rant, but I want to be clear on this point: RNG is the most fundamental means programmers have of modeling probability. It's more often at the heart of a game's mechanics than it is an annoying extra to them.

here's a fun fact about RNG in World Of Tanks.

From Shooting accuracy, dispersion depends on the tanks characteristics. From very laser accurate 0.29 to shitty accuracy 1.2, these are the range where the shot would hit the target, for short the higher the dispersion, the bigger the aim circle and the worse your accuracy is.


yeah this is artillery sample accuracy, you just have to pray the RNGesus (or Russian Number Generator or Retarded Number Generator whatever you call )

So sometimes even in point black range, they can even miss the target which is a troll rage for every player haha.

So damage, RNG??

Ofc, this is RNG based WOT game, it is pretty shiet isn't it?

So it has damage range 25 percent from avg count. Ex: 750 dmg low roll and 1250 high roll damage, so sometimes when you have low hp like 300hp and someone shoots you with avg dmg of 390, it is plausible that the dmg could be 300 or less and made the player rage and you have your chance to pick your revenge.

"**** you lucky *** hole" yep players, shiet happens.

I have a lot of experience with RNG. As a once avid player of MapleStory where 95% of your accomplishments are RNG-based, it's tedious and exhausting to repeat the same process for months like a drone until you finally get what you want. Of course the excitement in hitting your achievements are that much more fulfilling but generally I don't feel it makes up for how there's next to no hard work or skill involved.

In MapleStory in order to get better stats you need to 'cube' your gear which is basically rolling for specific stat increases, usually aiming for your primary stat% or attack/magic attack/boss damage/ignore defense%. Often you'll end up with useless stats like accuracy, avoidability, max MP/HP, and so on that you'll always roll over and serve only to make you waste your time/money. Same goes for the equipment drops, one of the endgame gear sets (Sweetwater) are random gear pieces dropped at random in a specific dungeon. So it's RNG within RNG lol. So if you're a thief class and you get a wand drop, you're out of luck, especially in Reboot world (what I play) where there's no trading or market system so you can't sell those things haha.

It's more understandable if MMOs have this system since it keeps players playing and always have something to work towards but ugh. I'd rather at least in part have a guaranteed reward system, even if it meant consistently running a dungeon for a solid month or two before you get something. At least then I know I'm working towards something and it'll be guaranteed if I dedicate time. MapleStory is almost all RNG.