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  #1    
Old September 2nd, 2009 (8:55 PM).
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    Oh my gods, that title sounds so wrong.

    Anyhow, after talking about this months ago (I'm not sure when, ask solovino), the idea to redo the stickies was dropped. Mainly because my old laptop exploded, and no one can really make much of a move without mod approval.

    But now it's PC-wide sticky cleaning month, so why not start this up again?

    Currently, the Writer's Lounge has ten stickies. Some are necessary, some aren't, some are getting a fresh coat of paint to make them ~pretty~ and new.

    So since there's a lot to do here, and I'm just one mod, the community here can join in and help out, doing whatever.

    Right now, I want everyone to take a look at the stickies in the Writer's Lounge and decide which ones aren't that beneficial and should just go, and which ones need to be redone.

    I'll just be watching the results, not participating unless need be.
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    Old September 2nd, 2009 (9:07 PM).
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    Do we still need the 'Pokemon fanfiction' challenge in the main board?

    We could combine the beta thread with the review trading centre thread.

    And we can combine the guide ones into one big giant mega sweet ultimate thread, with lot's of organization and thought.

    Which leaves the index, lounge and announcement thread.

    This totals for 5 stickies.
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    Old September 2nd, 2009 (9:10 PM).
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    First and foremost, we don't need two writing guides nor two review peddling threads. So I would say either merge the Basic Pokemon Writing FAQ v1.0 with the Pokemon Fanfiction Writing Guide v2, or get rid of one of them, and do likewise with The Beta Place and The PC Review Trading Center. The Example of a Good Fanfic - Complete Analysis thread could also be merged with the other writing guide threads or removed.

    And yeah, the thread title does sound so wrong.

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    Old September 2nd, 2009 (9:15 PM).
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      We seem to have an abundance of guides for writing fanfiction and using proper grammar. I think we could consolidate the more similar ones. Also, I think the fanfic index probably belongs in the main PFF&P forum, as most people browsing for fics won't be looking in the Writer's lounge.

      One more thing: I think the review trading system we have now might be a little too daunting for its own good. Five reviews is a lot, and I think that might be why it hasn't been posted in since the end of June. If we rebooted that thread with a lower requirement, I think it might see some more activity. I think we should keep it separate from the Beta thread, though, as beta-ing and regular reviewing are very different things.
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      Old September 2nd, 2009 (9:19 PM).
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      Ooo, yeah, putting the index thread in the main board is a good idea.

      Hmm... Does it make sense for you guys to have a new beta/trade thread, as one thread together? Could it be done?
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      Old September 2nd, 2009 (9:47 PM). Edited September 2nd, 2009 by Citrinin.
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      If I were to rearrange the stickies here, I would have the following threads stickied:

      Fanfiction Lounge
      Pretty straightforward - it's the bedrock of our silliness (and occasional bursts of intellect). :P

      PFF&P Index
      This would essentially serve as a reference point for all members for the Fanfiction Section, where it would be solovino's FFL index and Bay's Fanfiction Index combined.


      FFL Index
      As-is.

      Writing Guide
      This should be a fic writing guide compiled from a community effort. Perhaps what we should do what the RP section is doing, where we start a community group for it.

      Reviewing Guide
      The reviewing guide should basically be Valentine's/S.D.'s current efforts, but perhaps we could look at making minor modifications.

      The BETA Place
      As-is.

      The PC Review Trading Centre
      As-is, but I agree with icomeanon6. It seems to be lacking activity at the moment. Perhaps instead of five reviews it should be three?

      ---

      Also, I think the Fanfiction Announcement thread should be kept open, but not stickied. And Bay's Fanfiction Index should be moved to the main forum.
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      Old September 2nd, 2009 (10:14 PM).
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        Quote:
        PFF&P Index
        This would essentially serve as a reference point for all members for the Fanfiction Section, where it would be solovino's FFL index and Bay's Fanfiction Index combined.
        Further explain that, if you don't mind. I just want this to all be clear before we move on to the next step.
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        Old September 2nd, 2009 (10:38 PM). Edited September 2nd, 2009 by Citrinin.
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        Originally Posted by Astinus
        Further explain that, if you don't mind. I just want this to all be clear before we move on to the next step.
        Sure. :) Essentially, I think that both solovino's and Bay's threads serve as indexes for the fanfiction section so people can easily find topics or threads throughout the whole forum. Thus, I think their information should be merged into one sticky as an entire "PFF&P index". (I'm operating under the assumption that mods can merge two threads into one, which I could've sworn I'd seen before. :s)

        The main reason I suggest this is because we're really looking to cut stickies down. I can see the appeal of keeping them as separate threads, but where so many different threads are warranted for stickying in this forum, I think it's justified to merge them. (On the other hand, I don't support the merging of BETA and review trading because both of these threads require constant responses, which will probably result in a dual-topic and messy thread.)


        EDIT: Nevermind - I've considered it, and think it would probably be better to move Bay's index to the main forum. See below. :s
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        Old September 2nd, 2009 (10:44 PM).
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        Hm, don't think merging both my and solovino's indexes is a good idea. One, my thread also has to have constant replies for those that want their fics to be in the list. Second, solovino is still expanding it pretty much. I do agree however maybe move the index to the main forum for easier browsing for the new writers in this forum.

        Yeah, just want to give my two cents on my precious index. XD; Might edit this after I look through the threads again.
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        Old September 2nd, 2009 (10:51 PM).
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        Hmm, upon consideration, you're probably right. If your index is moved to the main forum and solovino's index is kept in the Writer's Lounge, it would be a clear distinction and a way to cut down on the stickies in the Lounge. ^^
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        Old September 2nd, 2009 (11:05 PM).
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        Unless of course there is another thread for adding fics to the index.

        However, it could be made even simpler, whereas, there can be a general request fic area. Where someone can pick a category of: betaing, shared reviewing or indexing. In this way, it forces more people to check on the thread, and potentially help those in terms with it.

        Of course that just means another creation of a thread, whether sticky or not.
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        Old September 2nd, 2009 (11:08 PM).
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        That seems like it would be a bit messy and hard to follow. :x
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        Old September 2nd, 2009 (11:15 PM).
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        Hmmm testing a sign up sheet:

        Fic name:
        Fic Link:
        Fic status:
        Category: (if they wanted it peer reviewed, betaed, or indexed)

        Of course some may require more information, or different than others.
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        Old September 2nd, 2009 (11:21 PM).
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        Okay, here's what I think of each of the threads:

        Fanction Lounge: Keep as is.

        Fanfiction Announcement Thread: I think this should be unstick. It's nice to look at the announcements to see which fics are updated, but if you're waiting for a particular fic to be updated, there's always subscriptions.

        The Beta Place: Keep as is.

        Reviewing and You: The PC version: I think keep it as is and don't merge with the other writing guides as I think writing and reviewing are different from one another.

        Example of a Good Fanfic: Unsticky it. In short, I think everyone has their own views what makes a fic good.

        The PC Review Trading Center: Unsticky but perhaps a redo. Like everyone else, trying to do five reviews is a bit much. Two or three should do good or something.

        Pokemon Fanfiction Writing Guide and Basic Pokemon Writing FAQ: The two threads are basically the same. O.o I would say unsticky as both of them are outdated and messy. I think maybe all of us should collaborate on doing a new version of a Fanfiction Writing Guide and discuss about it.

        Grammar Advice Thread:This is a tough one. However, maybe have this in the main section also so that new writers can learn some common grammar mistakes before they post their fic.
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        Old September 3rd, 2009 (5:31 AM).
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        Hmm, besides keeping the fanfic lounge up there...

        I don't think the Announcement thread really warrants that much of a stick - after all, if someone is interested in your fic, then there's thread subscriptions, one's signature, PM lists... it could stay around as a non-stick thread though, IMO.

        Maybe the guides could use a joining/re-post for organisation's sake - they are all there to help one way or another after all, bar the reviewing guide as I feel that should be kept separate from the writing guides (they serve basically different audiences for the most part anyhow, and the other guide/s can link to it as well). I'm also a bit iffy on the importance of 'Example of a good fanfic' - but if merged with other guides (and maybe touched up a smudge?), then should work...?

        As others have said, maybe the Review Trading Center should be look at and possibly adjusted. Furthermore I might suggest that maybe an index of people willing to review fics along with this system could work as a thread? Kinda like the Beta Place, only one has profiles for reviews, and people contact them whenever they want a review.

        That in itself would probably be rather messy as a thread though, never mind it joining the Beta Place as well IF done. I don't really see the Beta Place working along with a Review thing of some sort at the same time - would be just too cluttered and confusing for users, I'd imagine, and they do differ a fair bit.

        I may though repost the Beta Place - keep it basically the same and all. (But steal the 1st 2/3 posts for the sake of it so I don't run out of character space all the time/get more organisation from that, and also remove the current clutter). Yay/nay on this thought?


        So in summery... I also think we actually might as well go and give the writing guides a good old merge and touch-up, or rather a rewrite even - nothing like a fresh start, after all, and reduces the number significantly. I should be able to help, methinks, if needed... we could all get into it together though, ideally.

        Have the reviewing guide separate from that as its own sticky.

        Fanfic lounge as another sticky.

        Beta Place also separate.

        Reviewing request/system thingamajig sticky by itself. That makes 5. One of those (like the writing guides) could go in the main fanfic forum section as well, IMO... those are my random, current thoughts.


        Furthermore... I've gotten myself some experience with the wonders of Macromedia Flash (software major projects, whee). Do you guys/girls/things reckon there's a benefit to, for example, on top of a written form of the Beta place with Beta Readers and their profiles and clients, have an interactive version of that via a Flash movie (.swf or html)? i.e. Menus for those categories and so forth so members can just browse through that info? It could even come with colours!

        Shouldn't be too hard for me to make up at all, and I'd be able to update it easily enough and also could apply to stuff outside the Beta Place as well, I'd imagine (like a reviewing thing if applicable). AND, If I REALLY wanted to go fancy-pants I could even knock up a system which any user can update their info/status by themselves as well easily enough, as that kinda was my project so I know how to do it. (Hurrah for databases). Most people have Flash player... 8 or above these days anyway, really (F.Player 10's really easy/free to download and basically 'needed' already), and either it'll be in the thread as an attachment (after checking, PC's attachment system allows for GIANT ones, so yay) or just linked to at the top or something like that... throw thoughts at me about if this would actually have any point to it, etc - just throwing this out there. =)
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        Old September 3rd, 2009 (7:54 AM).
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        Hm, that sounds interesting, bobandbill, the flash thing. Wanna see how you'll go about that. :D
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        Old September 3rd, 2009 (12:27 PM). Edited September 3rd, 2009 by JX Valentine.
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          As a side note about the Review Trading thread:

          Quote:
          Originally Posted by Bay View Post
          The PC Review Trading Center: Unsticky but perhaps a redo. Like everyone else, trying to do five reviews is a bit much. Two or three should do good or something.
          We don't even have enough to do two or three at the moment, to be honest. The way the center works is that if we have under five, the reviewers are meant to review everything currently on the list. Because we haven't hit five yet, this means we're already set at two or three. Moreover, the five-review limit is meant to prevent abuse of the thread.

          I do support the unstickying of it, though, in part because it's not really being used. Also, about the profile thing, I've thought about it, and the entire point of the center is so writers are obligated to give reviews for reviews if they want to use the thread. As in, it's a review trade, not simply advertisement to get reviews or to say you're available for reviewing. I don't mean to sound defensive or anything, but I get the feeling the reason why the system isn't working is because, well, I haven't been clear about what the system is. For that reason, I'd be willing to rework it (in a way I've mentioned to Asty via VMs), but I can tell you right now that it can't be a profile thread, an ad thread, or a fic index thread simply because that's not what it's there for.

          Edit: But, uh, you're totally free to make a reviewer profile thread if you'd like. Something like Serebii's?
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          Old September 3rd, 2009 (1:32 PM).
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            *pops in* Made some changes based on what was said in this thread. Merged the two writing guides, moved Bay's index to the main section, have an idea for solovino's thread, unstuck the Review Trading Center and the FFAT.

            So, are we liking the way things are going now? This narrows down the discussion possibilities to whatever is left stuck.

            Rules and FFC are not-debatable though. Rules for obvious reasons (since I received no complaint when the new ones were posted, I'm going to assume that they're perfect [and why not? I made them]), and the FFC has plans.
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            Old September 3rd, 2009 (1:44 PM).
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            Oooo plans, I like the sound of that XD

            I swear my fic in a contest will be longer than this one! XD

            And it looks good so far.
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            Old September 3rd, 2009 (2:20 PM).
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              Quote:
              Furthermore... I've gotten myself some experience with the wonders of Macromedia Flash (software major projects, whee). Do you guys/girls/things reckon there's a benefit to, for example, on top of a written form of the Beta place with Beta Readers and their profiles and clients, have an interactive version of that via a Flash movie (.swf or html)? i.e. Menus for those categories and so forth so members can just browse through that info? It could even come with colours!

              Shouldn't be too hard for me to make up at all, and I'd be able to update it easily enough and also could apply to stuff outside the Beta Place as well, I'd imagine (like a reviewing thing if applicable). AND, If I REALLY wanted to go fancy-pants I could even knock up a system which any user can update their info/status by themselves as well easily enough, as that kinda was my project so I know how to do it. (Hurrah for databases). Most people have Flash player... 8 or above these days anyway, really (F.Player 10's really easy/free to download and basically 'needed' already), and either it'll be in the thread as an attachment (after checking, PC's attachment system allows for GIANT ones, so yay) or just linked to at the top or something like that... throw thoughts at me about if this would actually have any point to it, etc - just throwing this out there. =)
              I think it would be best to keep everything localized to PC as much as possible. Making people have to leave the site they're writing information for in order to fill something out or view it, and especially making it something plugin-dependent, is really just a hassle for everyone. Maybe I don't understand what you're envisioning for this, but it sounds redundant from the way that you describe it--I guess you mean that you could look people up by category or something? You can already simulate that with a well-constructed first post using spoiler tags, and at that point people would only have to update their profile once, in the thread itself, rather than needing to update it in the thread and then again for the external database. Unless I'm misunderstanding you, it just sounds like altogether too much work.

              If you're really interested in just reducing the number of stickies, you could unstick both the Lounge and the Announcement threads--these both see the most activity of any threads in the lounge, so they'll always be near the top of the first page anyway, stickied or not. The number of stickies proposed at this point doesn't seem unreasonable, though, so that would only be if you really felt you wanted to get rid of some.
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                #21    
              Old September 3rd, 2009 (2:32 PM).
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                Anyone to compile a "recommended threads for reading" index for the Lounge?

                I think it can be subdidived in three lists: general writing advice (such as the first Writing Guide thread, maybe the second guide as well, or a new thread more plot/grammar/narrative oriented, also a quick link to the Rules just to enforce the idea), fanfiction- or Pokémon-oriented advice (such as the second guide, Scarlet Weather's guide, or anything that reeks canon/fanon discussion) and informationals (the Lounge, although that will still be sticked, the FFA thread, the plot bunny farm, things like that).

                There, I managed to contribute something I hope.
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                Old September 3rd, 2009 (8:18 PM).
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                Quote:
                Originally Posted by Astinus
                So, are we liking the way things are going now? This narrows down the discussion possibilities to whatever is left stuck.
                Excellent - thanks Astinus. ^^ Also, thanks for making a thread to consider our views - even if all our ideas aren't implemented, it feels good to be able to contribute to forum policy. :D
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                Old September 3rd, 2009 (8:33 PM).
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                Quote:
                Originally Posted by solovino View Post
                Anyone to compile a "recommended threads for reading" index for the Lounge?

                I think it can be subdidived in three lists: general writing advice (such as the first Writing Guide thread, maybe the second guide as well, or a new thread more plot/grammar/narrative oriented, also a quick link to the Rules just to enforce the idea), fanfiction- or Pokémon-oriented advice (such as the second guide, Scarlet Weather's guide, or anything that reeks canon/fanon discussion) and informationals (the Lounge, although that will still be sticked, the FFA thread, the plot bunny farm, things like that).

                There, I managed to contribute something I hope.
                solovino, probably that's not a good idea as I think everyone will be able to find the stickies. However, perphaps Astinus can do something like that in the rules post? Well, some of the links she already put in the rules, but perphaps organize it like you explained here. I hope this makes sense. XD;

                And Astinus, I think everything's good so far. I still think the Writing Guide should be revised, but that can be discussed later.
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                Old September 3rd, 2009 (8:55 PM).
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                Quote:
                Originally Posted by Negrek View Post
                I think it would be best to keep everything localized to PC as much as possible. Making people have to leave the site they're writing information for in order to fill something out or view it, and especially making it something plugin-dependent, is really just a hassle for everyone. Maybe I don't understand what you're envisioning for this, but it sounds redundant from the way that you describe it--I guess you mean that you could look people up by category or something? You can already simulate that with a well-constructed first post using spoiler tags, and at that point people would only have to update their profile once, in the thread itself, rather than needing to update it in the thread and then again for the external database. Unless I'm misunderstanding you, it just sounds like altogether too much work.
                This would be rather just an addition to the written list without fancy flashy thingys or anything, and as said it looks like PC's attachment thing should mean it can remain in the thread itself. Another way to view the info.

                Although it is certainly far from necessary - just something I feel like throwing out there as a possibility (I also kinda feel like doing something in Flash with what I learnt with that all, I suppose - want to put it into use somehow XD). Looking at it, having it editable by anyone is pretty unnecessary as well given users may have to do it twice (or update that/tell me, or just tell me to do it both), although I could just make it that I update both the written list form (which would most certainly remain), and the secondary flash program myself, which would be easy enough, I feel. (Simply a copy+paste job in essence, and saves people having to worry about doing stuff themselves). (And makes the job of making it far easier as well - wouldn't even need to worry about databases then).

                And anyone editing could always have the risk of people deleting stuff, which is solved by a login function which is easy enough for me to make, but more hassle for the user as well, so would just be a viewable thing.

                But throw more opinions on this, people, as it's just something minor and secondary and I won't do it if others also think it's pretty much 'meh'. XD

                Hurrah for the changes made so far - looks better already, IMO.
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                  #25    
                Old September 3rd, 2009 (9:22 PM).
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                Astinus Astinus is offline
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                  Join Date: May 2006
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                  solovino, most of the links are already in the rules post, especially the stickied threads. They are just lumped together as "Read these or die" threads, though.

                  Negrek, you have a point there. This section doesn't see a lot of new threads, so even if the FFL isn't posted in for a day, it won't disappear. We'll try the Lounge unstickied to see how that goes, if need be. (It might not be, since cleaning up the few stickies that we did, it does look a lot better.

                  Citrinin, you're welcome. PFF&P is a community, and it would just be bad of me to not think of and include those who make up this community when making the guidelines. That's pretty much how the rules were written: with the needs of those who frequent this section in mind.

                  Quote:
                  Originally Posted by Bay View Post
                  And Astinus, I think everything's good so far. I still think the Writing Guide should be revised, but that can be discussed later.
                  I quoted your post, and forgot I had to respond to others. Oops.

                  The Writing Guide is going to be revised, since some of the advice in there makes me want to go "ARGH WHY?" We might also be ready to start heading in that direction, now that the bulk of the stickies are taken care of.
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