should hacked legal pokemon be allowed

DoomKnight said:

People should really shut up when it comes to hacked (legal) pokemon, I would rather save time and give my pokemon Maxed IVs rather than breeding which takes quite a while, it really saves time. It's like people complaining about something that really benefits them, it won't hurt you nor will the world end if you go and use Pokegen.

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People do have a right to complain, at least Nintendo can apparently identify Pokemon generated from outside sources.

It takes a while to get a perfect Pokemon because you have to work for it. People who don't work for it are just lazy, no offence but that's my opinion.
Players often say that It takes too long or they don't have enough time, Just excuses really, sure it takes a while but you'll get there in the end. It's not like it's going to take years!

You won't feel the same satisfaction of beating someone else's team as a player who bred legitimately for their 'mons! (If that makes sense)...

With all that being said, I couldn't care less about what other players do...
I prefer the hard way though! ;P

As long as they're not "badly hacked" and look perfectly legitimate, then I'm fine by them. I've done this before myself quite a few times, and battled with these kind of Pokémon online in gen four games—no one seemed to complain or even notice that they were actually hacked. xD Anyway, this thread would fit better in Pokémon Gaming Central; I'm moving it there.

Moved.

I'm probably echoing the rest of the people in this thread, but I believe they should be allowed in, as long as they're stats and movesets are legal.

I've done this before. I'd use an Action Replay to find a perfect Nature'd Lapras and then EV trained it with the AR.

As others have said, as long it's LEGIT meaning no mods to the stats, move-pool, EV's and IV's then it shouldn't be a problem. It makes it a lot easier for those that can't migrate Pokemon from older games over to X & Y

Really, my problem is the excuse of not having time. If your someone who's constantly changing teams, than yes, I can understand it seeming pointless to do maybe a weeks worth of training for a team you are only going maybe once or twice. But for those of us who stick to a team for as long as we can, if you're willing to put in the time with the team in battle after, why can't you afford the time to train them? Especially means they are basically making it so easy now. Nature breeding just takes an everstone, EVs and IVs can be handled with power items, and as long as you have a routine, an hour's worth of gameplay can be enough to level up your guys across that week. I think, because of hacked versions of "perfect" pokemon, that the perfection is getting overrated.

In all honesty, I think people who think they need to do it just need to do kinda what I did with my prehistoric team: take a look at the stat maximums, and instead of shooting for perfection, ask themselves what would be a range that is acceptable to them, and go from there. The games were designed for diversity, and imho, being able to generate pokemon is ruining that.

I personally think that the entire game should be void of hacked pokemon, legal or not. It just gives the metagame/ trading etc feel much more legitimate and worth while. Shiny pokemon are the biggest concern in my opinion. What fun is catching, collecting and trading shinies if other people are getting them via a code that takes 2 minutes? Hacking might be fun for competitive and the individual, but I suppose I just see the matter in a different light. Besides, there's Pokemon Showdown and other external applications that allow you to hack and battle your pokemon without poisoning the legitimate metagame. Thankyou for listening.

I myself, see no problem in using Pokegen to generate perfect Pokemon. To me, it really just speeds up the tedious process of breeding and things of that nature. I use it all the time to make various different teams, and it has easily saved me hours -- Hell, even days -- of work. And honestly, I don't see how someone who spends time EV'ing and IV'ing their Pokemon, would find it less fun to face someone who generates theirs. It's not really diminishing your experience, you just have different methods of obtaining Pokemon.

Also, I noticed that a few people have said that you don't really need perfect distribution in every stat, just somewhere near it. See, the only problem with this, is that you need perfect stats to fare well in the competitive scene. Say you have a Garchomp with 20 speed IVs; because you no longer have maximum speed investment, you're now out-paced by opposing Salamence, Haxorus, and Hydreigon; three Pokemon that you would easily out-speed in normal circumstances. (Implying you're all a +Spe nature.)

I don't see a problem in hacked legal Pokemon. I wouldn't use them myself, because I don't like hacking, but if I was battling someone that had hacked legal Pokemon, I wouldn't mind.

Pryze said:

See, the only problem with this, is that you need perfect stats to fare well in the competitive scene.

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I see things like this a lot in this thread, and I just can't resist from asking: do you people think this problem would still exist if nobody could use hacked Pokémon?

SaniOKh said:

I see things like this a lot in this thread, and I just can't resist from asking: do you people think this problem would still exist if nobody could use hacked Pokémon?

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Yes, I do. Because there will always be people that are willing to go the extra mile, no matter what the subject is. And of course, without perfect IVs, you run a much greater risk than a Pokemon that would have 31 in every stat.

Pryze said:

Yes, I do. Because there will always be people that are willing to go the extra mile, no matter what the subject is. And of course, without perfect IVs, you run a much greater risk than a Pokemon that would have 31 in every stat.

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I think the point that was trying to be made was that, if it wasn't possible to be able to, for example, then the number of people who do it simply for speeding up the process will likely fall out of the competitive scene, leaving only those who are willing to put in the time. It would also make the perfect 31 IVs across the board less prevalent because it would like become much more rare for it to occur. It is also likely to change the meta altogether, as combining the previous statement with the number of exceptionally rare to find pokemon, the game will become so much more about who is willing to put the time into their teams, which, without access to cheating devices or hacks, may shift it in favor of people who are doing the breeding and the training currently. And, it could, theoretically, make it possible that pokemon with say a top IV value of 25-27 could be competitively usable. This is all just talk, because the only way it could ever be known for sure is if it happened.

That's exactly the point I was trying to make, yes :) .

Pryze said:

Yes, I do. Because there will always be people that are willing to go the extra mile, no matter what the subject is. And of course, without perfect IVs, you run a much greater risk than a Pokemon that would have 31 in every stat.

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Well, I don't know about you, but I feel that, if a person spends much more time breeding for the best IVs, egg moves, abilities and natures etc, then it goes without saying that they deserve to win for all the time they've put into it. But then, with hacks still existing all this is purely theoretical.

This thread has been interesting to say the least. It reveals a lot about how different 'fun' can be for different people.

For some people they consider it unrewarding to hack legal Pokemon. But at that same time, they seem to assume that everyone playing is a sentimental type of person. For some people it's not going to be rewarding to grind in order to get perfect IVs. All it would be for them is frustrating. And while I think people might point out that the type of people who would get frustrated would just quit; you need to remember that frustration is not necessarily enough of a deterrent to stop people from completing their goal.

What I find most interesting about these people is how they are willing to sacrifice the 'fun' of the players that do legal hacks when they are making a choice to do things the hard way. I don't look down on them for doing things this way. It clearly holds some sort of significance for them to go about things more 'naturally.' But at that same time. Why are they upset by legal hackers? Is it out of envy? Does it, to some degree, take them out of the fantasy that Pokemon has immersed them in because it reminds them that Pokemon are still data? Is it because they consider it a reflection of a general degradation of work ethic in our society?

I kind of think getting to the bottom of WHY people hack legally and WHY people oppose these hacks would be more interesting than asking if it is ethical or not.

Sorry for misreading your previous message, then. :P

SaniOKh said:

Well, I don't know about you, but I feel that, if a person spends much more time breeding for the best IVs, egg moves, abilities and natures etc, then it goes without saying that they deserve to win for all the time they've put into it. But then, with hacks still existing all this is purely theoretical.

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I do believe that would stand true, if, like you said, there were no hacked Pokemon. As it would eventually come down to a game of, 'Who spent more time working on their Pokemon'. Obviously, breeding a good Pokemon gives you more of a personal feel of success, but unfortunately, the amount of time one spent working on something, doesn't always correlate with victory. Thinking one deserves to win because they spent a now superfluous amount breeding doesn't sit well with me; especially if they know that there's a faster, more efficient way of doing said activity.

I'm fine with people hacking to get legal Pokemon. It really saves a TON of time and frustration just trying to get the right IVs, etc.

In light of the heated discussion in the Pokemon Bank thread, I'll say this... There's no difference between a well made hacked Pokemon and legit Pokemon other than the fact that hacked Pokemon wasn't generated by the game itself.

I personally don't hack, but I don't really care for those who use 100% legal hacked Pokemon.

I saw what happened in the PokeBank thread in regards to discussing hacked Pokemon, so consider this post everyone's warning that if this thread gets anything like that one with all the rude posts and the name calling, I'm closing it immediately.

I honestly think this topic could boil down to two very simple, very valid arguments, in all honesty.

You have one side that views it as a time saver. And it is, it can save someone interested in the competitive field loads of time. It also makes it easier to max out a pokemon's potential, I'll agree with that as well. But to say that it's required in order to play competitively is maybe stretching this point of view a little too far, and, for someone like myself and a few others who have posted, that's what is frustrating, the fact that there are people who think it's a requirement in order to play competitively. My loosely based example would be maybe a racing game with shortcuts. Do the shortcuts help? Yes. Do they save time? Yes. Are the required for the race in general? Absolutely not.

On the flip side, you have those of us who feel that its a much more personable experience to do it without, which any of us who grew up pretending our toys were alive could understand, and it's a somewhat similar idea here, except that we want to show what our own hard work and effort can do in a competitive setting. I know that the opposition might see taking the time to get the RNG to fall just right is a waste, and I can understand that. Is it significantly harder? Sure, but there are ways to help make it easier on yourself without resorting hacks and cheating devices. Is it going to be quick for anyone who wants to try competitive right off the bat? No, and personally I don't feel like it was meant to be, but I could be wrong. As for the argument of it playing out that those who are willing to put in more time are better off, it's a yes and no argument. My basis on this is there are plenty of other games where time could correlate to more wins, and it's not always the case that the time is the only factor. With an ever changing meta like Pokemon should have, certain styles will fall out as ineffective as more counters to the current meta arise. I know that without hacks, this process isn't as fast as it is today, but it would still occur.

I personally believe it is ok for people to hack in event Pokémon they missed, or perhaps a legitimate Pokémon they cant seem to catch [Which is highly improbable, at least in my eyes.] although I wouldn't do myself. But what I absolutely hate is when people hack in flawless shinies, or anything of that sort. It isn't fair to other players who work hard to get even half of that.

No plain and simple nothing hacked should be allowed in newer versions, and anything hacked shouldn't be considered legal, rng abuse is even border line illegal to me.