Anime/Manga It's not like I want you to post in me or anything, b-baka.

machomuu said:

Well, for the most part, people can't really riff on the LN adaptations for the same reason as manga adaptations because, generally, non-Japanese speakers don't consume LNs. This mostly has to do with the fact that officially LNs are generally translated after the show takes off, whereas manga generally comes over before the anime even has time to get an adaptation, depending on who's handling it. And even in the case when it's not (since the bulk of Western readers read digitally and for free), there just aren't as many people translating LNs as there are manga being translated, and the demand isn't as high.

All of this to say, the reason people don't have the same stigma against it in the case of LNs is because they haven't likely read the source material.

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This is very true, as while I've read maybe 15 LN volumes in the last 3 years, I've still read more LNs than the vast majority of western anime watchers and manga readers in that same time period.

But as for dubs these days...Mm. These days I legitimately have a problem with the dubbing industry that I never had before, largely because it feels like it's regressed. The number of dubbing companies is around the same as it ever was, Companies and their voice actors rarely interact with the anime community, and line directors these days'll take the bare minimum at times. Couple that with the fact that some of last decades better VAs, like Liam o'Brien, Kari Wahlgren, and Travis Willingham have gone into hiding and the others are on strike and won't even touch the Japanese industry save for fulfilling prior contracts...sometimes (rip Laura Bailey my second love and Troy Baker everyone's favorite piece of dub man meat).

And I just...I dunno. We had a good thing going for a while. After the 90s, we got some amazing dubs in the way of Cowboy Bebop, Dragon Ball, Yu Yu Hakusho, Baccano...it just seemed like during that time people were really excited about anime and nerd culture as a whole becoming this normal part of Western culture. We just kept moving forward. Now, save for Toonami, the only English voice acting that even remotely tries to push and promote itself is the abridged scene, which these days actually has a higher bar for quality and contains the voice actors that are excited about voice acting. And when anime studios contact them, it's generally just for side work.

\sigh

I dunno. It just feels like anime in the West is moving backwards.

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Unfortunately, the margins have likely been tighter for dubbing since there was the double whammy of the Great Recession followed immediately by the rise in streaming to attempt to counteract the crazy rise in online piracy that started gaining steam around 2005, and on top of that Japanese studios are likely asking for more per show, and anime VA talent is lower on the revenue hierarchy than even your basic children's cartoon for VAs, a lot of which still has cable network revenue funding their studios. None of the major western anime studios wants to become the next Bandai Entertainment (which merely closed up shop in the US), let alone become the next ADV.

kuzronk said:

Cardcaptor Sakura is one of the few examples that did the manga well along with filler that doesn't feel out of place.

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But the man in his 30s didn't propose to a 10 year old in the anime.

It's is certainly an example of later opening being better than the first. 3>1>2.

That whole thing in CCS with Terada and Rika freaked me the fuck out when I found out about it several years later. I still prefer Cardcaptors. Like it or hate it, there's no denying that the OP for it is better than any of the original anime's. Same goes for Sailor Moon.

I miss the days dubs just went for all-out cheese and weren't so concerned with remaining faithful to the Japanese original...in a lot of ways it's very off-putting that they don't sometimes, because certain things just don't translate or sound weird in English. They're still of reasonably good quality - mostly - but creatively I feel like modern dubs are restricted by the Japanese version, which can be very depressing. That said, I still prefer to watch a show in my native language if I have the choice.

One way anime in the West is definitely moving backwards is in the cost of DVDs and Blurays...it's no wonder people pirate these things, with streaming services being incomplete (and dependant on a good internet connection, which is still not a given, thank you very much) and things being either unavailable or priced at £30+ for 4-6 episodes. It's pretty disgusting how greedy people are getting.

I welcome new voice acting talent, though. A lot of the greats might be gone, but so are trash like Yuri Lowenthal and Vic Mignogna, and we're all the better for it. Not only that, but I was honestly getting tired of the same VAs getting pidgeonholed into the exact same roles - in video games, too! - so they...diluted the personalities of the characters they played, kinda. Generic protagonist? JYB. Irritating sidekick? Yuri Lowenthal. Sinister villain or crazy eccentric? Liam O'Brien. Once you've heard them in the exact same role fifty or sixty times, both their voice and the character they're playing lose their appeal.

I definitely do like variety. Recently I've actually been thinking about how I'm starting to recognize Japanese seiyuu in the same way I recognize English VAs. I guess I should be surprised it took me so long since I've been watching anime in both languages for longer than a lot of people on this forum have been alive, but it was never a big thing for me, really.

Anyway, I've gotten to wondering why I should want to recognize them. In the same way that I started wondering the same for actors in live action TV. I mean, in one sense it's nice knowing that I have skilled actors at the helm. But on the other...when I start to see the same faces/hear the same voices in each consecutive show that I watch, all playing the same roles that they did in the other shows I watched. Because I do think identity has value, which makes it slightly harder to get into when my blonde tragic loli in this show is also my blonde tragic loli in that show.

So I should think this is a good thing. Seems like we've passed on to a new generation of voice actors and Bryce Papenbrook isn't taking the role of every main character to come out of any anime with a name like he did for 5 fucking years, but I'm still a bit iffy. Some of the voices legitimately have me, and if I'm gonna be honest, I think the problem is more with studios than with the voice actors themselves. Because in a lot of cases the VAs are fine, but if you put the performances from Durarara, which intentionally aired its dub halfway into the season, versus something that's simulcast, you can tell the difference in quality. And it's absolutely staggering when an established voice actor is the line director for something because in general it seems like they do definitely care about the end result.

But yeah, I suppose that's my problem, and I think what Don said is the reason why. Funding isn't particularly all that high for anime in the West and training your voice for anime specifically is hardly a thing here. That's why lately we've been getting so many voice actors that come out of cartoon roles, and why those are the voices that generally shine. And in a time where studios apparently don't have the money or time to care about the end result being anything above serviceable, I'll gladly take a voice that exudes energy and livens up a role regardless of where they came from.

On a related side note, I was looking through VAs when I was writing this post and I noticed that way more of the SDR2 cast didn't return to voice their characters in DR3. Which is a shame, because I loved the English cast for that game, they're part of the reason I was able to get so attached to them. I'm at least glad Johnny was still Hajime and, most importantly, Nagito was Bryce. If he wasn't I would've had to riot.

I've seen one or two western anime companies adopting Japanese bluray pricing but I don't think it's all greed. It's low demand + a core of people that want all of the extras that come with it. Even at those prices they aren't making huge profits.

On the topics of blue ray pricing. I'm shocked that big budget hollywood films still cost £15 in release. Do people still actually buy these?

Japs need to get good and make English friendly bluray/dvd disk sets the norm. All it takes is a subtitle track and then they can cut out the middle man. Of course maybe this wouldn't be ideal for you dub fans. I'd be for it though as it would mean directly supporting and influencing the industry.

I'd quite happily pay £30 or so for an anime DVD...if the number of episodes on the discs was worth that price. £5 per episode is definitely not worth it. Something like the Dragonball box sets I can definitely get behind, though - I splashed out about £300 for all of Dragonball and Dragonball Z over about six months, and I didn't regret it. It's just the "Part 1 of [insert number here]" DVDs I have an issue with, because they cost just as much as the complete box sets. I realise it's to keep up with current episode airings, but...well, it's still unreasonable to charge so much for so little.

It would be nice if more DVDs were region free and had subtitle tracks, but for some obscene reason the industry is so far behind the times it almost makes Nintendo's practices look modern by comparison. I suppose that would mean no dubs, but with streaming services relatively affordable - even if they are incomplete and not ideal for some of us - dub fans would have their fill until DVD boxsets - whole series, not 4-6 episodes at a time - were released.

Honestly. If you have a small audience, you do not alienate that audience by charging them such ridiculous prices. More options would be nice, too; personally I don't much care about audio commentary, dual audio tracks, and whatever else they include as part of the package. Just give me a cheap, minimalistic all-episodes option and leave that extra nonsense to the special editions...

Unfortunately that's not how the economics of the situation works. Smaller audiences always push prices up.

Majority of western releases aren't 4 episode volumes though. 12 episode boxes have certainly become more normal in the last few years or so, these tend to cost around £30. So you're going to be paying just under a few pounds per episode, which is probably just about acceptable if you like the series and the box art is nice.

It's a shame that prices are going up but then again it's also going down too, if you can deal with streaming. Whilst streaming isn't for me Crunchyroll's £5 p/m fee is very reasonable.

Unfortunately not...it'd be nice if they had some kind of standards, though. When you can get a full series for the same price as half of one - or less, depending on the series - it's quite frustrating.

Honestly, with anime at its current price, I'd never take a chance on purchasing a series I'd never seen before. I've bought a fair bit of anime over the years, but practically all of it (a few films excluded) I've watched online first.

Crunchyroll is very affordable, although you get what you pay for...for me it's as unattractive as other services like Netflix, etc. My internet connection is awful, and the fact that it doesn't have everything I want to watch available puts me off. Of course it can't have everything, but there are plenty of series that never get official subs...

We should meet up and rob an anime shop.

There are anime shops in the UK now?

Meyneth said:

I'd quite happily pay £30 or so for an anime DVD...if the number of episodes on the discs was worth that price. £5 per episode is definitely not worth it. Something like the Dragonball box sets I can definitely get behind, though - I splashed out about £300 for all of Dragonball and Dragonball Z over about six months, and I didn't regret it. It's just the "Part 1 of [insert number here]" DVDs I have an issue with, because they cost just as much as the complete box sets. I realise it's to keep up with current episode airings, but...well, it's still unreasonable to charge so much for so little.

It would be nice if more DVDs were region free and had subtitle tracks, but for some obscene reason the industry is so far behind the times it almost makes Nintendo's practices look modern by comparison. I suppose that would mean no dubs, but with streaming services relatively affordable - even if they are incomplete and not ideal for some of us - dub fans would have their fill until DVD boxsets - whole series, not 4-6 episodes at a time - were released.

Honestly. If you have a small audience, you do not alienate that audience by charging them such ridiculous prices. More options would be nice, too; personally I don't much care about audio commentary, dual audio tracks, and whatever else they include as part of the package. Just give me a cheap, minimalistic all-episodes option and leave that extra nonsense to the special editions...

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Unfortunately, as you were told, the economic realities of the smaller anime DVD/BD market are what are driving limited choice as well as the releases of Part 1s and Part 2s.

They're also restricted in when they can release because our prices are so much cheaper than Japan's that some Japanese buyers were just importing sets from the USA. The Japanese companies are VERY protective of their home market as that's where all of their cash is made, as foreign market licensing is just a side hustle for them.

There's s Full blown weeb shop on Camden market but it's not dedicated to toons.

We could always just steal some random Fairy Tail dvd volumes from CeX.

You guys don't have anime sold in other stores? Over here we even have book stores sellin 'em

That's exactly what we have to do although the music/video shops are all going out of business.

CeX is one of the few places I can buy anime in town now. It's a buy and sell type of shop for electronics, games and so on.

Not even some mainstream stuff like DBZ in major chain retailers?

Granted, I order most of mine online anyway as most stores that carry anime merch in my area focus on merchandise like figures and plushes rather than DVDs/BluRays and the stores that do carry anime BDs and DVDs are either limited in selection (the case in major chain retailers) or aren't really carrying anything brand new (the case in locally owned shops).

Oh, HMV has major anime releases - I even saw Steins;Gate in my local one, if it's there tomorrow I might even buy it since I get paid - and Waterstones has a lot of manga, but dedicated anime stores? I've never been in one. I didn't know they had any in London, although it's been about seven years now since I last went to Camden, and I was going in tea shops and hunting for a pair of New Rock Boots, not looking for anime stores...

My HMV has a handful of anime series but only a couple in bluray and Waterstones has like 1 shelf of manga. Don't like the Waterstones manga section though because there are always people lurking around reading Naruto volumes.

It's kinda depressing how they are literally no specialist anime stores outside of big cities like London...I suppose there isn't much demand for it, but there are specialist comic book shops in my local town, and there can't be much demand for those either.

Also, random question - would I be safe to watch Boruto? That might seem like a silly question, and it probably is, but I already know Naruto gets what he wants and who marries whom, so would I be able to pick it up and watch it week-by-week without getting a headache? Trying to motivate myself to watch more Naruto and it's not working at the moment.

Meyneth said:

It's kinda depressing how they are literally no specialist anime stores outside of big cities like London...I suppose there isn't much demand for it, but there are specialist comic book shops in my local town, and there can't be much demand for those either.

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You'd be surprised. Comic books are much more mainstream since they're western and have been around longer in western countries. Many card shops in my area started as comic shops and still have sizable shares of their business in comic books.

donavannj said:

You'd be surprised. Comic books are much more mainstream since they're western and have been around longer in western countries. Many card shops in my area started as comic shops and still have sizable shares of their business in comic books.

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I suppose I'm under that impression because comics aren't quite as big over here as they are in the US - they publish Collector's editions of Marvel and DC only every month, which only cover three stories (and there are substantially more that never get printed outside of TPBs which aren't in every book store) and some of them have been cancelled in the past due to lack of sales...the only one that can maintain a bi-weekly publish is the Spiderman one. I suppose comics have been around in the West for longer, but with the manga/anime sections in stores getting bigger (at least in stores local to me) I would have thought one or two specialist retailers could afford a high-street presence, perhaps...

...that said, prices are always cheaper online, so it doesn't matter too much to me if there are shops or not.