No , Both you and DBZ Fan try to use A made up system as Canon ! You guys simply tries to sound basic fact of trainers Specific for Misty
Trying to have mastery over varrious types by capturing them, studying them, trying to do battle with them, finding legendary Pokémon with them, and partaking in events like the Junior Cup (and the last bit was pretty much emphasized) etc basic thing that All Pokemon trainer does.
By Adding ''Water'' into it , It doesn't become Specific for Misty.
Also , Atleast we know that Ash has to Collect 8 badge and win a Real Official League to qualify for Champion League to become a Pokemon Master! As For Misty go , Most of ''System'' is made Up by you guys by watching Whirl Cup . Because nowhere it said that Misty must win all sort of Water Competition in all region to become a Pokemon Master. It something that purely claim by you guys.
Thats not Specific , That imaginary !
Nope, that's specific. There are plenty of other episodes that made it clear. DBZ Fan made that clear as well, and he watched them. Heck, he even made it very clear in this thread as well. Those things are stuff the episodes specifically mentioned. If you can't get it, that's your problem. And while I may not be much of a judge on that matter, DBZ Fan is, however, especially when he's actually WATCHED all the episodes up to this point. We didn't make it up at all.
And again, until DP, the only thing we truly knew with absolutely certainty was that Ash needed to collect badges. Thanks to the Orange League (which IS a Regional League whether you like it or not, it takes place in another region, it is called a league, and Ash even gets a trophy for it, it's therefore a regional league), and how that was a shortlived victory, Ash didn't even
Do you think it matter what some people in charge of Whirl Cup say ? They are the ''Organizer'' So off course they will drag about it.
People in charge of Orange League said how Orange League help trainer to become strong by making them go though various challenge beside Battle.
However , Ash come back after winning ''Orange League'' and Gary effortlessly kicks his butt ! So obviously whatever Gary was doing were far effective then Orange League.
Same goes with ''Battle Frontier'' !Both Scot and Agatha both said how Battle Frontier would be good for Ash.
But again , Ash get his Ass kicked by Gary & Paul ! Both trainer who never bother with Battle Frontier and then Ash had to start a new journey to redevelop himself.
Some Improvement
Yeah, and if Ash managed to win a league and he still gets his butt kicked by Gary, what does that make the League? Have you ever thought to consider about that? And BTW, the Orange League was an actual regional league, certainly it was more of that than the Battle Frontier, where all Ash got from that win was seven Frontier Symbols. DP is the only time we got any absolute explicit statements that Ash had to actually win the Regional Leagues to become a Pokémon Master.
And by your argument, we can say it doesn't even matter what an Elite 4 and Champion says, because they're organizers so of course they'd brag about it. If you claim that's not proof enough, then guess what? DP's revelation isn't even proof enough that this is how a Pokémon Master is. In fact, we can't even trust that poster in Episode 5 (Brock's debut episode) since again, marketing. If that was your reasoning for how that's not a defined goal for Misty, it also isn't a defined goal for Ash, either, even less in his case.
Thats your Big proof !
Kid , There are other people who watched Original Series and Misty simply said ''Water is my specialty''.
That doesn't prove anything because Misty was raised in a Water pokemon Gym So its obvious for ''Water'' to be her specialty.
Just like Clemont Specialty is Electricity and even known as a ''Electric type genius'' But that doesn't mean Clemont want to be a ''Thunder Pokemon Master''.
Also Whenever people ask Ash's goal , he doesn't say ''I want to be Best at everything'' .
He simply says ''I want to be a Pokemon Master'' ! He said that same thing every time when he's asked.
Ash never said he want to be a Movie star ! He just loves to work in a Movie just like he love to do challenging thing like Surfing.
I think the movie star bit was only emphasized with Misty in that episode revolving around a Romeo and Juliet copy by that Spielburg guy (the bit in Hypno's Naptime doesn't count because that was Dub Only). And actually, Misty also stated she was a Water Pokémon Trainer in Tentacool and Tentacruel, as well. And do I really need to remind you that in earlier episodes, it was even implied that catching Pokémon also had to do with becoming a Pokémon Master as well (Ash catches a Pokémon, gets dismayed when he learns Gary caught a set number more than him and that shebang)? That's the same thing (and the new series barely even focuses on catching many Pokémon anyways).
Let talk bout this After Ash become a Champion and get his ass kicked by Gary ! Now we should consider the chance of that happening.
Because Gary defeated Ash after Orange League & Battle Frontier in order to send him to another region to start his Journey again.
However if Ash become a champion then writer can't send him to next region to compete in the next League.
Because he's already a Champion So it would be insulting for the previous League Champion & E4 if Ash can't handle gym-leader from the next region.
Therefore , Writer must send Ash to the next region with different mission.
I think that would be better for rating! Ash goes to next region to find a Legendary pokemon (in order to protect it) upon A Prof's request and meet a new Female Rookie who happen to a past version of himself So Ash travel with her to guide her.
It was already insulting to the Orange Islands and Battle Frontier to have Ash lose like that. If they could disrespect those institutions just out of a crass attempt at weakening Ash so he doesn't come across as OP, they definitely would do the same with an actual game region league win. Heck, it was also insulting to a lot of the trainers he beat in those regions and even the gym leaders anyways. The only thing you're proving with your comments is that the writers truly don't know how to write, especially when they keep on doing exactly the kinds of things your objecting with Ash. At this point, we might as well call Ash's goal meaningless if I adopted your attitude. And it's precisely because of these stupid things that the ratings, including those of XY, are plummeting since AG.
I see people claiming ratings for pokemon anime are "doing fine" with low success being just nusproduct of less people watching TV.
But if that was completely true, than other anime would follow same suit having repeadetly significant drop in ratings like pokemon does. Yet, they dont with likes of One Piece, Detective Connan, Fairy Tail, Doraemon, Inazuma Eleven Go, new fewer calles Youkai Watch etc.
So its clearly obvious how its not just in "less kids being born or watching TV" being problem of pokemon popularity dropping.
Yeah, especially when Japan doesn't even have streaming sites thanks to Hulu bombing there (they might have stuff like Youtube or WatchCartoonsOnline, though, though even those are for reruns instead of actually airing things).
But bad, insensitive and repetitive strategy producers apply over and over again.
Strategy of Ash journey never going on bigger, more substantial level of character development.
Continuity in pokemon being very bad acting like past development, build up and achievements never happened.
Lack of on going story which grows over long period of time gradually developing characters and adventure aspect as whole giving recognizable touch to narrative.
Yeah, agreed with that, especially when they resort to level resets, and at least in AG or BW, make the gym leaders pathetic by having them lose to rookies, and treat characters as disposable.
Or repetitive, overused ideas and rehashed occurences from past instead of offering more orginal subplots, depth to character dynamic which used to be on higher level in older sagas with protagonists bursting with bigger pool of emotions and substance to their behavior.
Agreed with that as well.
Accompanied with unpredictable twist shaking up development and traveling as whole which could be achieved by diving more in main hero history, breaking new steps with its quest expanding on horizons of what else beside winning league is required to become master. Doing fresh, exciting sequels with past friends, rivals giving insight in pokemon history and what happened before etc.
Fully agreed with that.
I definitely think paying more attention to past and returning older fan favorites(such as Misty, May, Brock etc) in new updated forms, having them play new roles in pokemon plot and giving continuation of their adventures would inject much needed energy, enthusiasm and appreciation for pokemon series attracting more of older fans.
Increasing ratings and helping improve bad reputation pokemon anime has right now restoring fans faith in writers and anime they mostly feel indifferent about. Despising direction it follows losing main objective of what this anime used to be about.
Yeah, that should be what they should do, at least with Misty and if needs be Brock (though only if they tone down on the womanizing gag so he doesn't come across as being like Glenn Quagmire). And based on that image I posted, and the fact that some elementary kids actually tried to bring her back, it would even attract new fans. Heck, it would highlight the friendship angle even more if they actually RETAIN the characters rather than just casually throwing them away like sacks of meat.
Anime characterized by continuity based journey using past as template on which future is created, significant unbreakable friendships which are mantained not losing iis meaning(kinda hard to get that feeling when Ash and older buddies dont see each other for 10 years), hard works, renunciation and effort not happening in vain. With stories of Ash past traveling companions being mantained, updated and going somewhere instead of lying down in mud forgotten like it never mattered etc.
Yep, agreed.
Being underestimated how much one simple thing such as stronger continuty, maintaining connections with past emphasizing on importance of events and characters which happened before and consistent story which dont experience soft resets can mean. In increasing popularity of some anime and fans loyalty toward it.
Yeah, agreed. And having a lot of continuity can also ensure kids buy older materials to look into it as well. One of the things I hate about catering to new people or trying to "keep things exciting" is that it generally results in a lot of needless retcons (Metal Gear is particularly bad with this, since Kojima thinks it's "creative" to just retcon the heck out of the story when making a new game). It's a cynical way to view people, thinking that they won't handle old stuff so just scrap it.
It may not mater nowadays, but 13 years ago it was one of major factors which caused significant portion of pokmemon fans to abandon pokemon anime after Johto never coming back again. Ratings did started to drop in middle Johto, but Misty removal only contributed in popularity dropping even further.
You should be aware most than anyone else in here how much strife, dust and complaining Misty removal from pokemon anime caused dividing western pokemon fandom.
Having on one side people who either never liked Misty or used to like her. But didn't thought twice of turning back on Misty character and giving up from her just because of being mishandled in some ways during Johto saga with second chance and redemption being out of question for them. Despite writers managing to return her appeal and luster fully in Mastere Quest and onwards in chronicles.
Praising it as "best move writers did".
As on other side there were people who viewed writers move as insulting, disrespecting and careless. In deciding to drop heavily popular and recognizable first girl of pokemon ; 5 years of build up, introduction to her dreams, goals, fears, background, dillemas and relationships with other characters so easily.
Abandoning her comletely from pokemon series not wanting to put effort and time in making something out of all that potential she had.
Invoking frustration and disapoointment among many of direction in which pokemon show was taken ever since. With no stable cast, weak continuity barely; if ever maintaining connections to what happened before and consistent storyline which evolves with relatable, endearing smaller, but well fleshed out group of protagonists as they explore world, grow, change and overcome steps in reaching their dreams and destination they choosed to follow.
Being to them writers message of whatever direction anime followed being tarnished.
Yeah, and that's not even getting into what that led to afterwards with the girl-swapping and later just character swapping where they simply dispose of old characters once the generation has run its course, which definitely played a role in the collapse of ratings of all the series starting with AG, and yes, that includes XY as well. Misty played both a direct role in AG's decrease in ratings, and an indirect role in every series loss of ratings from DP onward.
Just because Misty was versatile having multiple interests beside one does not mean her goal of becoming water pokemon master wasn't main dream she pursued.
All those things you mentioned about Misty side wishes don't change anything considering how in Orange Islands, Johto Misty expressed interest in various other things as well.
Such as wanting to become professor Foster assistant in researching about fossil water pokemon, dreaming of meeting legendary water pokemon realizing their true nature and origins.
Seeing Misty show interest in magic wanting to be magician such as in "Hocus Pokemon!" when meeting Tammy.
Etc, etc.
But this side interests were just that, side hobbies Misty expressed interest in forming her character. Just like its case with fishing, romance and love, cute pokemon wanting to catch quite a few ones despite not being water pokemon like Jigglypuff, Odish, Teddiursa etc.
Yeah, just because she has side interests doesn't mean they somehow are inconsistent with her Water Pokemon Master goal. After all, Ash had similar stuff as well, something Famon ironically pointed out as well (the movie star thing, the surfing thing, that wrestling tournament with Snorlax, etc., etc.).
Misty main love, passion and something she deeply cares about the most were always water pokemon and huge fiery desire of wanting to become strongest water expert in world/water pokemon master. That was her main career, main path she decided to follow and absolutely adores wanting to make important and sifnigicant feats with it.
Yeah agreed, and the fact that she explicitly refers to herself as an aspiring Water Pokemon Trainer in Kanto and even implied that she's willing to catch Pokemon for the credentials of that bit makes her goals pretty clear. That's definitely not the same as with Clemont, since his catching and training Electric Pokemon is more like a hobby, a side venture in his case.
Misty through whole original series(Kanto, Orange Islands, Johto)talked about desire to become strongest water trainer in world, show whole world how elegant and powerful water pokemon can be.
Her interest in renowned water specialists like E4 Lorelei considering her idol wanting to become one day popular and strong like her, all those moments of learning how to approach water pokemon better understanding their feelings; such as Marill from "Crying Out Loud!", Poliwhirl helping it about confidence issues, knowing how to read Staryu emotions and feelings inside core reflecting close bond existing between them.
Or desire to meet and learn about all kind of water pokemon, learn from other water experts etc were all situations where Misty passion and desire to become water pokemon master were further reinforced.
Being stated how water pokemon master means becoming strongest water trainer in world.
Yeah, and the fact that she actually fangirled Lorelei/Prima specifically for her renowned status as an E4 member should make it a bit obvious what her goals are. And these actually WERE stated in the episodes anyways, so people shouldn't refute them.
Nevertheless winning water tournaments is required to acquire this title as Whirl Cup showed.
Being revealed through talks of sea priestess Maya and professor Elm, whole lore about sea heroes, water spirits and mystical water pendant.
How winner of this prestigue tournament gets title "Alpha Omega of water pokemon". Being one of names by which sea heroes(in Japanese water pokemon masters) were called by that name in past.
Serving as direct indisputable proof how by acquiring Whirl cup title you overcame one of steps on road of becoming water pokemon master bringing you closer toward that dream.
Yeah, and the Japanese version is as explicit as it can get. If one is to deny that's the makings of a Pokemon Master despite the show making it as clear as day, they might as well dismiss the claims by the Elite 4, the Champion, heck, even that Pokemon League registration poster in Showdown In Pewter City as well for the exact same reasons. At this point, Famon's being a hypocrite.
Your right, we don't know what other procedures and test someone need to pass afterwards, but winning Whirl Cup is without doubt one of steps required to be fulfilled in order to become water master.
Likewise every E4 member is named as type master in games being strongest trainers in world specializing in secific type.
Something Misty wants to become with water pokemon.
This was more throughly explained in thread i made regarding Misty water pokemon master goal, strong connection to E4 members(jpn. "Four Heaven Kings!") and what was showed in canon regarding it, steps and instances where writers dived deeper in whole thing.
Yeah, I remember that thread, and Famon still seemed to debate that even there. And frankly, cutting that goal short was a really stupid mistake for the writers, and definitely something that affected the ratings of the overall show, including XY even if it's indirectly.
Being more clearer in reality what title of water pokemon master carries with itself compared to pokemon master goal Ash is chasing. Not being known anything except how winning regional league will allow him to enter champion leaguer making step further in coming closer toward fulfillment of his goal.
Yeah, and even the bit about winning a regional league wasn't really made clear until DP thanks largely to how they handled the Orange Islands league (that was technically a regional league, and Ash won that, yet he still pursued his journey). Quite frankly, they should have ended the show there, at least that would have ensured Ash got the title of Pokemon Master, and we wouldn't have the problems the show currently is affected with regarding how Ash is treated repeatedly at least.
