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XY Ash vs Paul

Who's Better?

  • Total voters
    19
Frozocrone

Frozocrone

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SH60 said:
So any rival that doesn't test Ash's beliefs, ideals, and methods is a bad rival? And for me all of DP Ash's loses vs Paul before the league are BS.
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Thank you for flat out ignoring the part where I said Paul provided legitimate competition.
 
Frozocrone

Frozocrone

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SH60 said:
Yes he is competition but how is Sawyer and Alan not?
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Because Alain is basically a one-man army and Sawyer had an unbelievable sense of development - he should have been brought in earlier if they wanted to make him a credible threat. Instead, the threat from Sawyer is forced because the plot demands it so, not because the narrative has made a conscious attempt to develop Sawyer properly.
 

SH60

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Frozocrone said:
Because Alain is basically a one-man army and Sawyer had an unbelievable sense of development - he should have been brought in earlier if they wanted to make him a credible threat. Instead, the threat from Sawyer is forced because the plot demands it so, not because the narrative has made a conscious attempt to develop Sawyer properly.
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They are still competition and for that one-man army thing you know that they are still very strong MC-X was able to take out 10 megas and a E4 ace mega.
 

pkmin3033

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...and Ash-Greninja threw Diantha's Gardevoir around like a toy, which is stronger than E4 Megas. So Ash-Greninja lost to Mega Charizard X...why, precisely?
 

SH60

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Meyneth said:
...and Ash-Greninja threw Diantha's Gardevoir around like a toy, which is stronger than E4 Megas. So Ash-Greninja lost to Mega Charizard X...why, precisely?
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Because Diantha's MG was likely holding back. And Blast Burn is too OP. And the writers won't let him win.
 
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pkmin3033

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SH60 said:
Because Diantha's MG was likely holding back. And Blast Burn is too OP. And the writers won't let him win.
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There was nothing to suggest that Diantha was holding back. Nothing at all.

As for the writers not letting him win? That I'll agree with. But if you're going to factor that into your argument, then you can't really say that XY Ash is a very good trainer at all, because when he would win in any other circumstance, he loses. It doesn't matter when he wins or loses because he will ALWAYS lose in the end where it counts the most.

You could argue on that basis that if it were Paul in the Kalos League finals against Ash instead of Alain, Paul would win. So really, the question of XY Ash vs. Paul is entirely situational: how many times has he won and lost prior to that, and what are the circumstances? If he's lost once before, he might win this time. If it's a league match, he'll probably win. League finals? He'll lose.
 

SH60

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Meyneth said:
There was nothing to suggest that Diantha was holding back. Nothing at all.

As for the writers not letting him win? That I'll agree with. But if you're going to factor that into your argument, then you can't really say that XY Ash is a very good trainer at all, because when he would win in any other circumstance, he loses. It doesn't matter when he wins or loses because he will ALWAYS lose in the end where it counts the most.

You could argue on that basis that if it were Paul in the Kalos League finals against Ash instead of Alain, Paul would win. So really, the question of XY Ash vs. Paul is entirely situational: how many times has he won and lost prior to that, and what are the circumstances? If he's lost once before, he might win this time. If it's a league match, he'll probably win. League finals? He'll lose.
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But you can say the same with the writers not letting DP Ash win. So If DP Ash vs Alan DP Ash will lose a lot harder than XY Ash.
 

pkmin3033

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SH60 said:
But you can say the same with the writers not letting DP Ash win. So If DP Ash vs Alan DP Ash will lose a lot harder than XY Ash.
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How do you figure that? DP Ash has a more balanced team than XY Ash. I would assume he'd do better on that basis alone. Without Ash-Greninja, XY Ash is pretty terrible as a trainer.

Also, it's pretty subjective anyway.
 

SH60

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Meyneth said:
How do you figure that? DP Ash has a more balanced team than XY Ash. I would assume he'd do better on that basis alone. Without Ash-Greninja, XY Ash is pretty terrible as a trainer.

Also, it's pretty subjective anyway.
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DP Ash had 3 pokemon weak to Ice so thats a thing. And are not going to bring up anything XY ash did before XYZ?
 

pkmin3033

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SH60 said:
DP Ash had 3 pokemon weak to Ice so thats a thing. And are not going to bring up anything XY ash did before XYZ?
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I think you'll find XY Ash did as well, so I'm not sure where you're going with that.

Since we're talking about their final teams, I don't think it's really relevant, do you? XY Ash was basically "use Ash-Greninja to win" and nothing else by the end of XYZ, so it doesn't really matter what he did beforehand when he never really utilised any of it.

No doubt in his match with Paul he'd depend on that to win too.
 

SH60

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Meyneth said:
I think you'll find XY Ash did as well, so I'm not sure where you're going with that.

Since we're talking about their final teams, I don't think it's really relevant, do you? XY Ash was basically "use Ash-Greninja to win" and nothing else by the end of XYZ, so it doesn't really matter what he did beforehand when he never really utilised any of it.

No doubt in his match with Paul he'd depend on that to win too.
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I love your bias here, and as for there fight any of the psychological mind games that Paul did to DP Ash it won't work for XY Ash.
 

pkmin3033

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SH60 said:
I love your bias here, and as for there fight any of the psychological mind games that Paul did to DP Ash it won't work for XY Ash.
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You love MY bias? My god, do you ever re-read your own posts? That's probably the most hilarious thing I've ever read on these forums! xD

XY Ash is just as stupid as any other Ash; he would fall for any of Paul's tricks in the same manner that DP Ash did. Ash never gets any smarter...if anything, he seems to get even stupider as time goes by. I'd hardly qualify Paul's strategies as "mind games" either when he simply had a different methodology to his training. The closest he gets to mind games is utilising counter-shield against Ash in their final match, and switching his Pokemon constantly...which Ash did too, if you'll recall their first full battle.
 

SH60

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Meyneth said:
You love MY bias? My god, do you ever re-read your own posts? That's probably the most hilarious thing I've ever read on these forums! xD

XY Ash is just as stupid as any other Ash; he would fall for any of Paul's tricks in the same manner that DP Ash did. Ash never gets any smarter...if anything, he seems to get even stupider as time goes by. I'd hardly qualify Paul's strategies as "mind games" either when he simply had a different methodology to his training. The closest he gets to mind games is utilising counter-shield against Ash in their final match, and switching his Pokemon constantly...which Ash did too, if you'll recall their first full battle.
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How do you know that? And by the way if Paul was as strong as you say how come he didn't win any of the leagues he was in and he lost to the strongest BF member that Ash beat? And did YOU ever re-read your own post?
 
Alexander18

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SH60 said:
We're using there league teams for this so they both have 6 pokemon.
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XY Ash still would of lost in my opinion. Even though Goodra and Greninja are strong (neither are overrated) but Paul still would have crushed him. XY Ash is weaker than DP Ash in my opinion. Only DP Ash could defeat Paul in my opinion.
 

SH60

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Alexander18 said:
XY Ash still would of lost in my opinion. Even though Goodra and Greninja are strong (neither are overrated) but Paul still would have crushed him. XY Ash is weaker than DP Ash in my opinion. Only DP Ash could defeat Paul in my opinion.
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And 1 reason why DP Ash is the only one that can beat Paul?
 

SH60

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Alexander18 said:
Because DP ash had put together a good team against paul. XY Ash only used pokemon he caught from their region.
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And DP Ash only used pokemon he caught in that region to fight Paul so I don't see your point.
 
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