• Our software update is now concluded. You will need to reset your password to log in. In order to do this, you will have to click "Log in" in the top right corner and then "Forgot your password?".
  • Welcome to PokéCommunity! Register now and join one of the best fan communities on the 'net to talk Pokémon and more! We are not affiliated with The Pokémon Company or Nintendo.

[Discussion] What do you want to see in Game Dev?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Cilerba

the hearts of lonely people
1,162
Posts
14
Years
  • Basically what the title says. I want to know what you members want added/changed.
    The ideas that get posted will go under consideration and may be executed.

    Any questions feel free to post them or PM/VM me.

    EDIT: People, please, post things that have the possibility of being done. Not things like asking for activity, more tutorials, etc.
     
    Last edited:

    zingzags

    PokemonGDX creator
    536
    Posts
    15
    Years
  • More organized resources, maybe better ones at it. For example, one thread with a link of all the resources people can use, kits (that are worth mentioning), websites, etc... We could also have a commission area either they can other for stuff or they can advertise for free. Some good coding tutorials for people who needs it the most. Also I think RMXP shouldn't be the only language people could code in.
     

    Minezumi

    ミネズミ
    58
    Posts
    12
    Years
  • Less n00bs
    Less talk about hacks. oh, and a more organized resource center.
    and you have to post at least 4-8 screenshots of your game to be in the beginner's showcase.
     

    Cilerba

    the hearts of lonely people
    1,162
    Posts
    14
    Years
  • More organized resources, maybe better ones at it. For example, one thread with a link of all the resources people can use, kits (that are worth mentioning), websites, etc... We could also have a commission area either they can other for stuff or they can advertise for free. Some good coding tutorials for people who needs it the most. Also I think RMXP shouldn't be the only language people could code in.

    You mean like this.. ?
    I'm not sure a commissioning center would be allowed.
    There's no way I can assure you that there's a possibility of a larger amount of coding tutorials. That's nothing to do with me, it's up to the members who have the coding knowledge to make the tutorial and post it.

    "Also I think RMXP shouldn't be the only language people could code in."

    ... what.

    Less n00bs
    Less talk about hacks. oh, and a more organized resource center.
    and you have to post at least 4-8 screenshots of your game to be in the beginner's showcase.

    Hey, I try my best to delete posts about hacking. :P
    More organized how?
    I see no point in requiring that many screenshots seeing as though just 4-8 more and you can potentially be in The Showcase.

    Also a more active community here its sort of dead these days.

    I'm asking for things that can actually be done. I can't just snap my fingers and *poof* activity.
     
    485
    Posts
    14
    Years
  • I think the forum structure as it is could be improved. I'm not sure having the strange nesting with the Lounge and Beginner's Showcase is particularly helpful, and people still don't know what the Lounge is meant to be for. Personally, I'd be happy to see it used for team recruitment and general questions, but I think that it already has a serious overlap with the main forum, the Help forum and the Beginner's Showcase. Defining its role better might help with some of the confusion.

    As for resources, the fact that its forum is dominated by questions (people see "Help" and beeline) means that, although they're all there, it's very difficult to find. Perhaps having a "Resources" forum on its own would be better, and a dedicated "Help and General Questions"-type effort would be a better use of the Lounge.

    Just some ideas. :) I think once the initial school rush has worn off, activity will be back up.

    EDIT: Crosspost.
    I think the requirements for threads are fine, and the quality of threads in the Showcase is at a decent level. I think it's effective.
     
    Last edited:

    Cilerba

    the hearts of lonely people
    1,162
    Posts
    14
    Years
  • I think the forum structure as it is could be improved. I'm not sure having the strange nesting with the Lounge and Beginner's Showcase is particularly helpful, and people still don't know what the Lounge is meant to be for. Personally, I'd be happy to see it used for team recruitment and general questions, but I think that it already has a serious overlap with the main forum, the Help forum and the Beginner's Showcase. Defining its role better might help with some of the confusion.

    As for resources, the fact that its forum is dominated by questions (people see "Help" and beeline) means that, although they're all there, it's very difficult to find. Perhaps having a "Resources" forum on its own would be better, and a dedicated "Help and General Questions"-type effort would be a better use of the Lounge.

    Just some ideas. :) I think once the initial school rush has worn off, activity will be back up.

    EDIT: Crosspost.
    I think the requirements for threads are fine, and the quality of threads in the Showcase is at a decent level. I think it's effective.

    Those will definitely be taken under consideration, thanks a lot.
     

    Vampire://Krimm

    → clocks everywhere →
    703
    Posts
    17
    Years
  • One of the things I really like about the Emulation board is that it has things like Hack of the Year and whatnot. And it used to have those monthly newsletters (dunno about now, I haven't checked in awhile). I know we've had both of those at some point, and I know that our Game of the Year thing had some issues, but...

    They did give the place a sense of 'community'. I wouldn't go so are as to saying we should immediately begin having Game of the Year but perhaps spotlights? The community votes for games that show potential or something and nifty icons are passed about (which are like cookies. Everyone likes cookies).
     

    Maruno

    Lead Dev of Pokémon Essentials
    5,286
    Posts
    16
    Years
    • Seen May 3, 2024
    I'm wondering why we have a Beginner's Lounge when the main section (Game Development, y'know) is really quite bare. Couldn't the Beginner's Showcase be re-purposed as a general game project section (for people actually making their own games), and other beginner-type questions go in the main section? To be honest, I'm not sure what the main section is supposed to be for.

    I'll admit I don't look in the sub-sections, so I don't know if it works well the way it is.


    One of the things I really like about the Emulation board is that it has things like Hack of the Year and whatnot. And it used to have those monthly newsletters (dunno about now, I haven't checked in awhile). I know we've had both of those at some point, and I know that our Game of the Year thing had some issues, but...

    They did give the place a sense of 'community'. I wouldn't go so are as to saying we should immediately begin having Game of the Year but perhaps spotlights? The community votes for games that show potential or something and nifty icons are passed about (which are like cookies. Everyone likes cookies).
    We all know why those don't work here. Mainly it's the lack of completed games and developments in the section, which makes for meagre pickings for a GOTY/newsletter.

    Perhaps rather than a newsletter, people could be encouraged to write up little articles about what they think about particular parts of game development. There used to be such an article in the newsletters, and I think that idea could stand on its own.



    The other thing that doesn't work here is competitions, which I think is mainly due to the rules they've used. Mine flopped because I constrained people too much, and the recent blip of a contest (which seems to have vanished) failed because the deadline was a week. Which is a shame, because I would welcome competitions - I think they'd be good for the community. What we need to do is figure out what kind of rules work best.

    In the Pokémon General section are polls, which change every so often but the old ones still hang around. Worth1000 also has a number of photo-manipulation contests going at any given time. I think this is good inspiration for introducing competitions here, namely: give people a choice of competitions they can enter, and rethink the whole "having a deadline" thing. As I said, the rules needs to be figured out, but I think the only way to do that is to have some competitions in the first place.



    Cilerba, you know what else I'd like to see in Game Dev.
     

    Maruno

    Lead Dev of Pokémon Essentials
    5,286
    Posts
    16
    Years
    • Seen May 3, 2024
    Well, I'm not one to necropost, but if it's still going on, I could be persuaded to write an article or do about how Essentials is doing.


    I don't think so. There some great topics/games that can be used to make several competitions.
    Indeed there are. They just haven't been acted on yet. That's why I mentioned it in here, in the "what do you want to see" thread.

    I strongly think that flexible or even non-existent end dates would be a good thing, though, in this place. They'd be more like exercises than competitions (perhaps have one or two in each newsletter). Some exercises may even be concept work, and not even need anything creating (e.g. "what would you do to implement X feature?"). Every so often you can have a proper competition, but these exercises would be good for developers.
     

    KitsuneKouta

    狐 康太
    442
    Posts
    14
    Years
    • Seen Nov 20, 2017
    Well, I'm not one to necropost, but if it's still going on, I could be persuaded to write an article or do about how Essentials is doing.



    Indeed there are. They just haven't been acted on yet. That's why I mentioned it in here, in the "what do you want to see" thread.

    I strongly think that flexible or even non-existent end dates would be a good thing, though, in this place. They'd be more like exercises than competitions (perhaps have one or two in each newsletter). Some exercises may even be concept work, and not even need anything creating (e.g. "what would you do to implement X feature?"). Every so often you can have a proper competition, but these exercises would be good for developers.
    I had actually given some consideration to joining that competition you hosted a while back, though I knew I lacked the time so I didn't even bother posting. Your constraints really weren't that bad, but everyone wants to make an "epic" game, which takes an equally "epic" amount of time. Actually, maybe more constraints should have been added, rather than less, such as requiring that the game be beatable within 2 hours or some such. Though the RTP-only restriction wasn't too popular I'd imagine. Maybe limiting it to RTP AND public tiles (no private ones) would have been more agreeable. It still keeps the playing field level, as all the tiles are still available to anyone. And of course, restricting anything to do with Essentials in a competition here is a must in my opinion.

    More on topic though, I think that moving the Quick Question thread into the main Game Development section might be a better idea. Beginners aren't the only ones that have questions (well, they're most of it, but not all), and I think it would be more sensible and readily apparent to put a generic game dev help thread in the generic game dev section, rather than a sub-forum. I actually didn't know it existed until about 2 minutes ago... Luckily I found it before posting a rant on how the General game making help thread should be unlocked to alleviate the clutter in the Essentials thread. Which is a disorganized mess as it is.
     
    Last edited:

    Worldslayer608

    ಥдಥ
    894
    Posts
    16
    Years
  • Given that I have completed my semesters of class and that this topic is stickied, I think I will chime in.

    I loved the ROM Hack section when I was working on Lost Legends under the name Dissension. It was a solid community that liked to check out what others were doing and share their knowledge and thoughts with the community.

    The GD section however, is something entirely different. We tend to attract people who have an elitest attitude towards other members. Not only can this turn new members off from coming to this section, but also it can drive them to avoid developing all together, which does not contribute to the strength of the community.

    I would love to see a few things, some of which have been said and I will comment on below. I would also like to reach out to other valued members of this section and work together with them to strengthen the community here in the GD section.

    One of the things I really like about the Emulation board is that it has things like Hack of the Year and whatnot. And it used to have those monthly newsletters (dunno about now, I haven't checked in awhile). I know we've had both of those at some point, and I know that our Game of the Year thing had some issues, but...

    They did give the place a sense of 'community'. I wouldn't go so are as to saying we should immediately begin having Game of the Year but perhaps spotlights? The community votes for games that show potential or something and nifty icons are passed about (which are like cookies. Everyone likes cookies).

    HOTM and HOTY were fun events. When Lost Legends was known as Dissension in the ROM Hacking section, it was nominated and elected for HOTM and it was a blast. Things like this are great for communities like this. Now however, they are running out of Hacks to do HOTM with. HOTY is a great thing none the less. Monthy spotlights are also something that are pretty handy and fun for the community. I would be pleased to work with other members on keeping one active and going here in the GD section.

    I'm wondering why we have a Beginner's Lounge when the main section (Game Development, y'know) is really quite bare. Couldn't the Beginner's Showcase be re-purposed as a general game project section (for people actually making their own games), and other beginner-type questions go in the main section? To be honest, I'm not sure what the main section is supposed to be for.

    I'll admit I don't look in the sub-sections, so I don't know if it works well the way it is.

    We all know why those don't work here. Mainly it's the lack of completed games and developments in the section, which makes for meagre pickings for a GOTY/newsletter.

    Perhaps rather than a newsletter, people could be encouraged to write up little articles about what they think about particular parts of game development. There used to be such an article in the newsletters, and I think that idea could stand on its own.

    The other thing that doesn't work here is competitions, which I think is mainly due to the rules they've used. Mine flopped because I constrained people too much, and the recent blip of a contest (which seems to have vanished) failed because the deadline was a week. Which is a shame, because I would welcome competitions - I think they'd be good for the community. What we need to do is figure out what kind of rules work best.

    In the Pokémon General section are polls, which change every so often but the old ones still hang around. Worth1000 also has a number of photo-manipulation contests going at any given time. I think this is good inspiration for introducing competitions here, namely: give people a choice of competitions they can enter, and rethink the whole "having a deadline" thing. As I said, the rules needs to be figured out, but I think the only way to do that is to have some competitions in the first place.

    Cilerba, you know what else I'd like to see in Game Dev.

    Maruno, I would be happy to help bounce ideas back and forth with you and see what we can come up with. You are a valued member here in the section and few people hold dedication such as yours.

    Aside from GOTY, Spotlights and Contests some things I would like to see are radical changes to the structure.

    Essentials should really have it's own little section. There is a lot going on and it is easily one of the biggest things going on in this section. It drives many members and has a wide array of things that could be sorted out better.

    The lounge should be the main section, and topics should be tagged for organizing purposes. If it is not tagged, a mod should tag it or close and delete it. This helps keep it clean and organized.

    The Help and resources section should be diced up to allow for organization. The section should hold the title, but there should be a sub section in it for help and request and the main section should be for tutorials and resources. Maybe a title change might be needed, but idk. The games showcase is fine the way it is.

    Maybe a contest section would help encourage other members to hold them as well as take part in them. There is a way to do it I am certain, it just takes some thought and motivation to do it correctly.
     

    KitsuneKouta

    狐 康太
    442
    Posts
    14
    Years
    • Seen Nov 20, 2017
    I loved the ROM Hack section when I was working on Lost Legends under the name Dissension. It was a solid community that liked to check out what others were doing and share their knowledge and thoughts with the community.

    The GD section however, is something entirely different. We tend to attract people who have an elitest attitude towards other members. Not only can this turn new members off from coming to this section, but also it can drive them to avoid developing all together, which does not contribute to the strength of the community.
    I have to agree with you here. It's not really changed much since I first started here actually. For the first month, maybe two, I went to the thread to read some of the fixes/advice and ask for occasional help, but it wasn't long before I began answering my own questions (this is a good thing that everyone should at least attempt to do, but it took a whole lot longer for things that were turned out to be pretty simple) and those of others. The notes were ok for general stuff, but the wiki hadn't been created yet and there just never seems to be enough knowledgeable Essentials users (and at that, ones that have the time/desire to add their input) to provide a steady flow of answers to peoples questions (and of course there's plenty of unwarranted questions that get asked, and refusal to answer these likely causes new users to feel like no one cares about their questions, so they may think twice about asking legitimate questions too). I'm kind of in an out for the most part. Sometimes I'll be on for a few days and do some stuff, other times I'm not around at all and just check in to see what's going on occasionally. If there were more knowledgeable users (even just about RMXP and scripting in general), it would probably significantly benefit the community.

    And I can see your point on the elitist attitude thing. I don't know that that's what people intend, but I see where it could be interpreted as such. There are times when I've read back over responses that I've made (usually to get my own advice on something I forget), and found that my way of presenting my response was less than optimal. It's usually when answering questions that seem so invariably obvious that I can't understand how someone could NOT understand them. Of course, it's never intended to make the other party feel intellectually inferior (I would like to think that others who may speak in such ways don't mean it that way either). It's merely because some questions are so basic that it's almost hard to even answer them. Think of it this way: what if someone asks you how to press the space bar on the keyboard? I would probably sound like I'm being a pretentious smart alec if I said "Take your right index finger, then push the key with it," because it's so straightforward that it sounds like an insult to their intelligence (and it's hard not to be straightforward with something so basic). The problem basically comes from new users who don't know how to even use basic RMXP functions, who want to build something with Essentials. Essentials is pretty advanced though when you get down to it. You end up with new users viewed as "pests" and advanced users viewed as "elitists." There has to be some middle ground for it to work (i.e. new users should understand that there is some prior knowledge required to successfully do anything with Essentials, and to try and work out problems themselves if at all possible).
    Essentials should really have it's own little section. There is a lot going on and it is easily one of the biggest things going on in this section. It drives many members and has a wide array of things that could be sorted out better.
    I agree with this as well. This would actually provide a great opportunity to address some the issues that crop up when new users pick up essentials (i.e. have some stickies for things like the wiki, an FAQ, common bugs, rules about what kinds of questions can be asked [and encouraging users to try out the magical "Search" feature], etc). Pokemon Essentials is now a huge part of PC, especially given that Essentials is probably the single most complete and accessible attempt at an open source Pokemon-type engine. It's just barely simple enough that average users can learn to work with it pretty quickly, but also contains enough complex features that advanced users can do some rather impressive things with it too. It's a nice middle ground, and it's the best (and most complete) Pokemon starter kit I've come across yet.
    Maybe a contest section would help encourage other members to hold them as well as take part in them. There is a way to do it I am certain, it just takes some thought and motivation to do it correctly.
    This is something I would like to see. The problem is that probably 90+% of the game developers here use Essentials, and complete games with impressive quality are pretty much nil. This will change eventually when some of the more prominent projects finally finish, where there will be some very well made (and complete) games based on Essentials. Until that time though, we're still stuck in a community who is still in the WIP stage (and some will sadly never make it beyond that stage). Others have suggested it, and I'll suggest it as well: there needs to be more non-pokemon games to expand the community's portfolio and give users a chance to put their skills to use and make original games. When working with Essentials, you play by the rules of Essentials. When making your own game, you can do pretty much anything. Sure you can theoretically make Essentials do some wild stuff, but it takes much more work than a completely original project (and it's very, very, VERY easy to break something in Essentials. Just try toying with the battle scripts and making any sizeable changes. You'll also find that sometimes it just "skips" right over something. Happened to me this morning actually), and at the end of the day, it will still be a pokemon game. If more users would go for non-pokemon games (or at least non-traditional ones, like DarkDoom's and the current project I've been playing with), competitions would probably work out pretty well. Sure this is a pokemon community and all, but pokemon isn't the only game out there. Heck, we don't even have to stick to RPGs.

    I've been noticing more and more lately that I type a lot (with a lot of parenthetical interjections, like this one. Must be hard to read for everyone. Glad I'm not in the "everyone" category that will actually be reading all of that), even when there's not actually a lot that I'm trying to say...
     

    Worldslayer608

    ಥдಥ
    894
    Posts
    16
    Years
  • Contests do not have to be "make this game in this long" etc etc. Something as simple as screen submissions, mapping, eventing, even plot writing are events which can draw certain participants in. Not only does it challenge them to become better, but it can also provide concentrated feedback.
     

    IceGod64

    In the Lost & Found bin!
    624
    Posts
    15
    Years
  • The elitist thing is kind of a sad story, true, but it's semi-inevitable. As KitsuneKouta explained all too well, a user more adept with something will often consider then more basic aspect of it just that; basic. For example, I know for a fact that I (And I'm not even entirely fluid with Essentials) have seen many questions posted in the essentials thread that now to me sound like "How do I breathe?" However, when I was newer to essentials, I was afraid to explore as well, because it's so big and there's so much to take in, I thought it would be overwhelming... But many things I thought I'd never figure out at first are just basic knowledge to me now. Much the same, I'm sure I annoyed Maruno when I first came to Game Development, because I saw some of the stuff he wrote answering questions, and I started directing most questions specifically at him because I thought "And this is the guy that knows everything!" :t135:.

    It doesn't help that most new users however, don't heavily regard rules - which is one mistake I didn't make. It says in the description that this section is not for ROM Hacks, but we could write it in big, red letters and some people would ignore it still. Things like that definitely factor into the equation, since it honestly does annoy me every time I see a newbie ROM hacker posting about their project here, even more so if they have nothing to show: Leading me to another point: The ROM Hacking section. It's rather hidden in the emulation forum, and that's the reason we get so many ROM Hackers here, it's not in plain sight. It's not the way I would've done it for sure. This isn't all about me, but I would've put it right next to the game dev section to prevent any confusion (Unless somebody was somehow doing an odd in-between..?) since there is a pretty stable connection between the two as it is, even though they are separate in many ways too.

    And here I was thinking I was gonna make a short post...
     

    Neo-Dragon

    Game Developer
    1,835
    Posts
    19
    Years
  • I don't know if this is the thread to talk about that elitism attitude that some people have. I won't bring it up here.

    But I'm wondering would there be a way for a mod to maintain a sticky thread with links to demos and releases of games?
    It would be up to the game developers to contact the mod with links via PM and inform the mod a release of their game is online. Then the mod would have responsibly of adding it to the sticky thread.
    My problem at the moment is finding games that are done. I think this could solve it.
     
    Status
    Not open for further replies.
    Back
    Top