6th Gen Got no TM87? Imma HM01 you! [TM & HM Speculation Thread]

In RSE, we had about 50 TMs and 8 HMs, perfect for the number of gym badges. It's not uncommon to see TM's get replaced with new ones, changed, and HM losing, gaining its status.

In FRLG, Rock Smash and Waterfall was bumped to HM status, from the original 5 in RBY, In HGSS, Flash lost its status, with Whirlpool returning, and Rock Smash and Rock Slide being added in the HM family from the original GSC.

Now that Flash lost it's status since Gen IV, and Rock Smash returning as an HM, and considering Dewford's Gym has been redesigned, removing the Flash element from before, do you think there would be a new HM to replace Flash, will the HM count still stay as 8 or become 7? Will there be new TMs to accomodate new moves or will they just replace some pre-existing TMs?

Discuss!

I reckon they will retain the TMs and HMs from X & Y with Flash taking place as a TM. I think they redesigned Brawly's gym since flash and darkness isn't really related to his type specialty, so turning it into an actual Gym is obviously more fitting. From the screens we've seen I actually prefer the newer design tbh. However since there is only 5 HMs in X and Y, I'd expect them to add a 6th for Dive for obvious reasons.

As for rewards I'd expect this;

Roxanne - Rock Tomb
Brawly - Bulk Up
Wattson - Charge Beam
Flannery - Overheat
Norman - Facade
Winona - Aerial Ace
Tate & Liza - Calm Mind
Wallace - Scald

With these games being remakes I'd like to think that they're keeping it as original as possible with everything, with the exception of a couple of newer TMS ex. Charge Beam and Scald.

Azure said:

I reckon they will retain the TMs and HMs from X & Y with Flash taking place as a TM. I think they redesigned Brawly's gym since flash and darkness isn't really related to his type specialty, so turning it into an actual Gym is obviously more fitting. From the screens we've seen I actually prefer the newer design tbh. However since there is only 5 HMs in X and Y, I'd expect them to add a 6th for Dive for obvious reasons.

As for rewards I'd expect this;

Roxanne - Rock Tomb
Brawly - Bulk Up
Wattson - Charge Beam
Flannery - Overheat
Norman - Facade
Winona - Aerial Ace
Tate & Liza - Calm Mind
Wallace - Scald

With these games being remakes I'd like to think that they're keeping it as original as possible with everything, with the exception of a couple of newer TMS ex. Charge Beam and Scald.

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I'm pretty much expecting the majority of the TM prizes in the Gyms to be the same as the originals like you mentioned, the only difference there being Wattson and Wallace who gave out Shock Wave and Water Pulse respectively. Those two got removed from the TM status in 5th Gen so yeah your suggestion of Charge Beam and Scald should make suitable replacements.

I'm thinking the TMs themselves will remain unchanged from XY, because I don't see why they'd change any (although maybe they could considering you can't trade them anyway). As for what I think each Gym Leader will give, here's what i'm thinking:

Roxanne: Rock Tomb
Brawly: Power-Up Punch - I don't think they'd give Bulk Up that early in the game when you can use the TM infinitely. Considering every game since DP has had it after post-game, except XY which you can get before the last Gym.
Wattson: Volt Switch or Charge Beam
Flannery: Flame Charge or Flamethrower - 130 power is way too OP for that stage in the game, but i'd bank on Flamethrower if only for the fact that Clemont (the fifth Gym Leader in XY) gives Thunderbolt.
Norman: Facade
Winona: Aerial Ace or Acrobatics
Tate and Liza: Calm Mind or Psychic
Wallace: Scald

Not too much different from what Azure predicts, but yeah.

Dang, wish Rock Smash stayed a TM. Oh well. As for Flash, I'd like it to stay as a TM, but I can see it returning to HM status as well. That, or Rock Climb makes a return. It'd be interesting to see that in 3D o:

For the TMs Gym Leaders hand out:

Roxanne: Rock Tomb
Brawly: Bulk Up or Power-Up Punch*
Wattson: Volt Switch or Charge Beam (imo, Volt Switch is about as annoying as Shock Wave except it doesn't have perfect accuracy, but Charge Beam can be nasty if the RNG decides to play favorites and provide Wattson's Pokemon with the Sp. Atk. boost each time it's used)
Flannery: Overheat (it may be strong, but it isn't the most accurate + has the Sp. Atk drop; besides, even with it in RSE (where it was also slightly stronger), Flannery still wasn't all that tough, imo)
Norman: Facade
Winona: Aerial Ace
Tate & Liza: Calm Mind
Wallace: Scald

*Though I agree with Stargazer that Bulk Up might not be received early on due to its infinite use, I also kinda can't see Power-Up Punch being handed out early as well. It boosts the Pokemon's Attack every time it's used, so it could be troublesome @_@ Plus, now that the physical/special split and Fairies exist, Bulk Up might not be too big a pain to deal with. (If things don't change, two Fairies--Marill and Mawile--can be found early in the game. On a related note, there's also Sableye in AS.)

I was going to mention how TMs and HMs of games in the same generation tend to be nearly identical, so don't be expecting drastic changes from X and Y, but it looks like others have beaten me to the punch. There will be some differences, as they'll have to put Dive back in there, but aside from that, and maybe one or two more for gym leader prizes, there won't be any difference.

I guess to expound upon the main idea of what new moves might be more readily available, well I'm hoping there are plenty of move tutor moves, and the main ones I want to see are Knock Off, Defog and Stealth Rocks, as it's a massive pain having to breed in prior games to get legitimate pokemon with those moves.

If rock smash doesn't return as an HM I wonder what they'll put to keep us from going to Mt. Chimney and skipping Wattson... I guess maybe a gate to the redesigned Mauville could block our path instead. Or maybe there could be super larger rocks that are being removed, referencing the rocks we used to rock smash in the old games...it was kind of annoying to smash them all the time...so having some NPC smash them once and for all would be good. Ah but I wonder if the person who gave out Rock Smash will still give it out, we'll (or at least I would) need it to bring back Wally's sister together with her lover who lives in Rustboro...

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire said:

If rock smash doesn't return as an HM I wonder what they'll put to keep us from going to Mt. Chimney and skipping Wattson... I guess maybe a gate to the redesigned Mauville could block our path instead. Or maybe there could be super larger rocks that are being removed, referencing the rocks we used to rock smash in the old games...it was kind of annoying to smash them all the time...so having some NPC smash them once and for all would be good. Ah but I wonder if the person who gave out Rock Smash will still give it out, we'll (or at least I would) need it to bring back Wally's sister together with her lover who lives in Rustboro...

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Or, they could make it so that once you smash rocks or move boulders, they'll remain that way forever. Either works, really! Also, I'm really looking forward to Dive, personally; have been wanting to explore undersea in 3D ever since X and Y had been introduced, and now's finally my chance. As far as Gym Leader TMs go, it's kind of hard to tell, but I don't believe that they'll be changing anything. They're always trying to keep remakes as closely associated to originals as possible, so changing them would sort of go against that (well, not overly). It's still possible, though, and if they do go towards that route, I agree that Scald should be given by Wallace instead of Water Pulse. In general, it's a much, much stronger attack.

Rock smash is confirmed to return as a HM... Ugh I hate that, such a weak move that you can only remove at Lilycove.

Time to breed a HM slave again.

Given that Rock Smash is back to HM status, maybe this means TM94 will be Secret Power instead? It would be nice to see it be a move that is returning under a different TM number since its original TM number (TM43) was changed to Flame Charge in 5th Gen.

And next I want to see Cut get its "cutting down grass" effect back, it saved me a lot of time getting through routes. I remember when I was playing the original games and I always hated Route 119 with its patches of very tall grass being like everywhere, and using Cut to remove the grass really helped save me from a lot of unnecessary wild Pokemon encounters.

Hikamaru said:

Given that Rock Smash is back to HM status, maybe this means TM94 will be Secret Power instead? It would be nice to see it be a move that is returning under a different TM number since its original TM number (TM43) was changed to Flame Charge in 5th Gen.

And next I want to see Cut get its "cutting down grass" effect back, it saved me a lot of time getting through routes. I remember when I was playing the original games and I always hated Route 119 with its patches of very tall grass being like everywhere, and using Cut to remove the grass really helped save me from a lot of unnecessary wild Pokemon encounters.

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I never knew you could cut it lol.

MarinoKadame said:

I never knew you could cut it lol.

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Yeah, it was apparently the case prior to 4th Gen. I did feel sad they cut that feature out (see what I did there) but I do hope they can bring it back.

I kinda wanted to see Secret Power as an HM tbh. I do hope Rock Smash gets a buff tho, since that move is kinda weak.

What are the chances of getting Whirlpool as an HM in Hoenn, tho? We all know, it is a Johto HM, but considering as Hoenn is The Land of Trumpets and Water, maybe they could add another Water HM, even if it's too much lol

Hikamaru said:

Given that Rock Smash is back to HM status, maybe this means TM94 will be Secret Power instead? It would be nice to see it be a move that is returning under a different TM number since its original TM number (TM43) was changed to Flame Charge in 5th Gen.

And next I want to see Cut get its "cutting down grass" effect back, it saved me a lot of time getting through routes. I remember when I was playing the original games and I always hated Route 119 with its patches of very tall grass being like everywhere, and using Cut to remove the grass really helped save me from a lot of unnecessary wild Pokemon encounters.

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I hope it gets it back too as I enjoyed mowing down the routes for fun. Plus it was easier to see where items hidden behind the grass were.

I'm glad to see Rock Smash return :3
I wonder if Secret power will gain HM status (possibly replacing Flash), or if it'll get Rock Smash's orphaned number.
Maybe Flash will be replaced by defog which could be used in Mt. Pyre if they decide to make the area around there have thicker fog.

I see these being the TMs being given out by the gym leaders:
Roxanne: Rock Tomb
Brawley: Power up Punch
Wattson: Volt Switch
Flannery: Incinerate
Norman: Swords Dance
Winona: Aerial ace or Sky Drop
Liza and Tate: Psychic (as the game corner is gone now most likely :( ) or Psyshock
Wallace/Juan: Scald.

I hope they introduce new moves from Black/White/X/Y as TMs into Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire

ThePokeRaf said:

I hope they introduce new moves from Black/White/X/Y as TMs into Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire

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I don't think we'll see Tm's higher than 100. So they'll probably replace some if they do that. I don't see them replacing much other than filling the void left behind by Rock Smash going HM again.

OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire said:

I hope it gets it back too as I enjoyed mowing down the routes for fun. Plus it was easier to see where items hidden behind the grass were.

I'm glad to see Rock Smash return :3
I wonder if Secret power will gain HM status (possibly replacing Flash), or if it'll get Rock Smash's orphaned number.
Maybe Flash will be replaced by defog which could be used in Mt. Pyre if they decide to make the area around there have thicker fog.

I see these being the TMs being given out by the gym leaders:
Roxanne: Rock Tomb
Brawley: Power up Punch
Wattson: Volt Switch
Flannery: Incinerate
Norman: Swords Dance
Winona: Aerial ace or Sky Drop
Liza and Tate: Psychic (as the game corner is gone now most likely :( ) or Psyshock
Wallace/Juan: Scald.

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I don't think Flannery will give Incinerate, it's a rather weak move. Overheat was what gave her that sort of "uniqueness" - a powerful move for a new gym leader.

I think Winona and Tate/Liza will continue to give Aerial Ace/Calm Mind to follow the originals. In fact, many psychic gyms don't give psychic as a TM.

slayerz96 said:

I don't think Flannery will give Incinerate, it's a rather weak move. Overheat was what gave her that sort of "uniqueness" - a powerful move for a new gym leader.

I think Winona and Tate/Liza will continue to give Aerial Ace/Calm Mind to follow the originals. In fact, many psychic gyms don't give psychic as a TM.

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I forgot about Overheat. Since it's maintained it's place as Tm 50 since Gen III it should be given by her again :3

I think it'll be unique if they did give out Psychic for once. Maybe we could get two TMs? Clear Mind from Liza and Psychic from Tate :3?

ThePokeRaf said:

I hope they introduce new moves from Black/White/X/Y as TMs into Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire

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We can be relatively sure that'll happen. In HGSS, TMs/moves introduced in Sinnoh were available, so I think we'll see the same thing here. In fact, some gym leaders may give out a new TM, like Brawly and Power-Up Punch. I for one would be surprised if they didn't include the new TMs.

I'm pretty sure Flash will be a TM, but it will still be needed since Victory Road and Granite Cave have dark parts.