5th Gen A new look

[Bellsprout]

So I've always been pretty vocal about how I felt about the fifth generation. I didn't care for most of the pokemon and characters. Since playing it when it first came out I've dubbed it the worst generation.

Recently I had replayed xy and then oras. I decided ya know I should really replay bw and give it another shot as a lot of time has passed and i'm no longer living in the shock of bad pokemon designs lol. I decided i had to start (black) it with an unbiased outlook if i was truly going to judge it fairly. I bred a team on another game and traded it over. the theme of my team was "pokemon with an edge" and it consisted of gothita, shelmet, huntail, litwick, deino, and bouffalant (to start).

This is what I took from my unbiased replay:
-All the designs I hated before I still do, there's really no getting around that part. it just is what it is.
-Most of the gym leaders weren't too memorable. I liked Brycen before and I still do now, but with addition to him I decided I really like Clay too.
-I found the game play was actually challenging which was nice! My team was usually neck and neck with the trainers around me. I even had to grind at one point before taking on skyla, which i havent had to do in a long time.
-I didn't find team plasma as annoying as i did the first time around, still not a fan of N.
-The encounter rate is INSANE, you literally cannot walk through grass/cave or surf without taking 2-5 steps and encountering a pokemon. I had to keep max repels on me constantly.
-There's a real lack of good water types/water types I'd actually want to use.
-After facing the elite four the first time around there's a huge level gap with the rest of unova that opens up. But yet before the elite four there's a decent level gap too, both were kind of annoying. And now yet again I've explored every area and I have nothing left to do but face the elite four for a second time and there's almost a 10 level gap between my pokemon and the champion's.
-The first few towns drag. As in I keep trying to move forward, but i am constantly being stopped usually by bianca/cheren to be told something or battled. i get that it's for the story but after a while it's just annoying. I had to live in fear of encountering them every time i started a new route or went to a new town.

Overall it's not terrible, but it's not a game I could see myself replaying over and over due to how much dialogue and constant stopping. i know i can just quickly click through it all, but that's a lot of clicking. basically i see it as more of a game you want to play if you want to dedicate a lot of time to it. Also i would never play it without being able to trade over a team because there's a real lack of variety for a long time in these games.

has anyone else given these games a second chance? how did it go for you?

 

[llysender]

Interesting that this topic came up. Was about to post in general discussion.
Anyways I just got the game for cheep a couple of days ago 4 years after giving it away to a new storeman as I was about to leave the army.

Anyways there are my thoughts for up to nimbusa city(where I am now)
-The elemental monkeys are usable but pretty terrible considering they stone evolve and stones don't come until mid~end game depending on the type of stone
-Lilipup is broken in BW. It basically makes the first 4 gyms really easy. Haven't done Elisa yet but I'm not looking forward to dem double team spam. Audino is sadly not as useful as in B2/W2 due to the lack of early game elemental TMs/Return
-The game only really starts going from nacrene city and I like how it keeps building with new events happening in every city. The fly back to desert resort was kind of awkward though.
-The rival battles were ok, a tad on the easy side so far. Don't really have much recollection so they couldn't have been too hard. Personally Hugh and Colress seem to be much harder rivals
-Best Victory road design along with the worst random encounter tables with so much sturdy
-E4 no comment, I need to re-experence it as the E4 that I remember is from B2/W2
-The pace of the game is really good, pitty the post game was 3 chillexing towns and nice natural scenery
-I spent way too much time working at the village bridge cafe then I would like to admit
-I spent way too much time diving to find treasure for the Riches then I would like to admit
-Black city sucks when you have no one to streetpass with
-Fire types as usual get the short end of the stick, there is Damanitan and Chandilure which are god tier, lol Heatmor, Monkey, starter, legendary making Damanitan and Chandilure the only viable fire types for pre post game save the starter.

Water types there are Seimitoad, Swana, Jellicent, Basculin(and monkey/starter but those don't really count I guess). All of which are really nice to use.

Personally this is the game that brought my 2 favs liligent and scrollipede

Currently rolling with Servine, Herdier, Pelpatoad, Scaggry(planing on getting Sigilyph/Archaops and durant/druggidon)

 

[Sydian]

I really love BW personally, but I do agree with a lot of the critiques. The encounter rate is really annoying, and thankfully fixed in the sequel. The lack of Water types is also annoying too. I'm not a big fan of Samurott, but I'm not insane enough to keep Oshawott or Dewott from evolving. Even though I prefer their designs, their movepools are really boring for me. I don't like any of the starters for that reason, I should mention. The first few towns definitely do drag and while I think Cheren and Bianca are great rivals for their development and what they represent, the handholding at the beginning of the game (and I should say, I mean in general and it's not entirely on them) is a pain to get through.

I rarely play these games without trading over non-Unova Pokemon, however that's my own issue because I did a challenge where I used every Unova Pokemon...so there's not much left for me to be like, "oh let me check out x I haven't used that before" because...I have. However, when I get to BW on my current playthrough for each generation, I plan on giving some Pokemon, like Maractus and Heatmor, a second chance because I don't remember them from that other challenge like...at all. Probably for a good reason, though. Haha.

 

[Bellsprout]

-The elemental monkeys are usable but pretty terrible considering they stone evolve and stones don't come until mid~end game depending on the type of stone

you're playing b/w right? there's actually a man in castelia city located at the first port once you enter from skyarrow bridge. he'll ask you which monkey you'd like to evolve and then give you the corresponding stone for it.

also @Ludger I'm not a fan of the starters either which is why i didn't even bother keeping one on my team. they're not strong enough to get through the region imo and they're boring

 

[llysender]

you're playing b/w right? there's actually a man in castelia city located at the first port once you enter from skyarrow bridge. he'll ask you which monkey you'd like to evolve and then give you the corresponding stone for it.

also @Ludger I'm not a fan of the starters either which is why i didn't even bother keeping one on my team. they're not strong enough to get through the region imo and they're boring

Good catch, I completely forgot about him. Only found him when I was going back to revive archen.

 

[PurpleOrange]

I never really like gen v's pokemon, the only time i had anything to do with them was the tcg and the anime, and neither did them any justice. but upon playing black (after finally getting a ds lite and starting to play the games) i actually really liked their designs and found the gen v games quite a step up from gen iv. granted the lack of previous gen pokemon was annoying but i guess that helped me like gen v's pokes more. the introduction of more than one rival was also done really well, i was expecting to be annoyed by encountering them every other route but game freak actually spaced them out quite well. and the 3d environments such as castelia were relly cool, and gave unova a unique feel. i feel that bw work a lot better if b2w2 are played as well, b2w2 seems to compliment bw and in a way make them better (if that makes any sense at all)

~I'm not insane enough to keep Oshawott or Dewott from evolving~

nah mate, i used my oshawott to beat the the elite 4 (alongside simisear and zebstrika) gave it a quick claw and it was pretty good

 

[Sydian]

nah mate, i used my oshawott to beat the the elite 4 (alongside simisear and zebstrika) gave it a quick claw and it was pretty good

Fair enough. I've taken Petilil to the E4 and gone through with little trouble, so anything's possible I suppose. ;)

 

[Spinosaurus]

Gave BW1 another go since 2011. Hated it back then, and my issues with it still remain.

Game's pacing is bad. There's a lot of instances where the player is interrupted for no real good reason other than to pad the game out. Nearly every time you reach a new town, you have to do some arbitrary quest before you could challenge the gym, and they usually take a while. Skyla's gym being the worst example. This is in part with how linear the region is. (Now Pokemon is pretty much always linear, but this is taken to the extreme. The level design was pretty much a corridor.) This is all unfortunately necessary so the game can artificially extend its length so it doesn't end up too short, but it wasn't very subtle about it at all. The amount of times you had to fight the rivals was obnoxious, too.

What really grinded my gear was that the game didn't respect my intelligence. Game held your hands throughout, telling you exactly where to go, or pretty much playing the game for you. I couldn't branch out at all, I had to play the game the way it wanted me to play, and exactly that way. It was really jarring coming from Yellow, where I could play at my own pace.

Thankfully BW2 was a lot better with these, although there will still some pacing issues, they weren't as obnoxious. Well for the most part. (PokeStar studios. Ugh)

also @Ludger I'm not a fan of the starters either which is why i didn't even bother keeping one on my team. they're not strong enough to get through the region imo and they're boring

Emboar is kinda broken actually. He dominates BW1 and BW2 speedruns. (Excadrill is the only other competition.)

 

[Hikamaru]

I personally enjoyed this game myself, even on the first playthrough.

While I can see the issues with linearity in the Unova region, the Pokemon designs were actually good, and a most had a lot of power to back them up. Lillipup was notable for being an early-game Pokemon that actually stayed consistently strong throughout the game (evolving at levels close to the starters helped it a bit there) and other powerhouses like Excadrill, Darmanitan, Chandelure, Krookodile, Lilligant and a few of the Fighting, Dragon, Ghost and Dark-types to a lesser extent. The Psychic-types were also mostly more bulky than most others, but still had a good amount of oomph going with it.

The characters to me were unique, and I liked all the fresh concepts in this game because it makes you feel like you were starting to discover Pokemon all over again.

 

[Nah]

Y'know what this thread really makes me wanna replay my White now (uh, tommorrow anyway) and see how exactly I feel about it now compared to 5 years ago.

no like i'll really do it this time

 

[Spinosaurus]

I'm fine with the Pokemon. Though there's several I really don't like, it still introduced some I'm really fond of. Like Garbodor, actually.

I forgot to mention, the games aren't really optimized. A lot of frame drops and stuttering in the overworld. Though I really don't like the animated sprites the battles were brisk at least. (Well, single battles anyway.)

 

[Bellsprout]

The level design was pretty much a corridor.) This is all unfortunately necessary so the game can artificially extend its length so it doesn't end up too short, but it wasn't very subtle about it at all. The amount of times you had to fight the rivals was obnoxious, too.

Ya know I never put two and two together with the levels being so extended. The fact that some pokemon evolved so late really deterred me from using them when I first played.

What really grinded my gear was that the game didn't respect my intelligence. Game held your hands throughout, telling you exactly where to go, or pretty much playing the game for you. I couldn't branch out at all, I had to play the game the way it wanted me to play, and exactly that way. It was really jarring coming from Yellow, where I could play at my own pace.

Exactly this! These games made me feel dumb with all the guiding. If I could figure out rby as a kid I'm sure kids today could figure out b/w without the extra padding lol.

Emboar is kinda broken actually. He dominates BW1 and BW2 speedruns. (Excadrill is the only other competition.)

Ah I see, I was basing my opinion on my experiences with Samurott and Serperior. So I just assumed Emboar was the same.

Y'know what this thread really makes me wanna replay my White now (uh, tommorrow anyway) and see how exactly I feel about it now compared to 5 years ago.

no like i'll really do it this time

lol please do! I found this to be a fun experiment on myself. It was weirdly fun to revisit something I once hated so much.

 

[JohnnyGolduck]

What designs didn't you like? I'm not bashing your opinion or anything I'm honestly curious. I like most of the 5th gen designs personally but there are some I really don't like at all. Samurott, Emboar, Stoutland, the Pans and Simis, Unfezant.

 

[Bellsprout]

What designs didn't you like? I'm not bashing your opinion or anything I'm honestly curious. I like most of the 5th gen designs personally but there are some I really don't like at all. Samurott, Emboar, Stoutland, the Pans and Simis, Unfezant.

emboar, patrat line, all final monkey evos, timburr line, tympole line, throh, sawk, solosis line, vanillite line, klink line, most of the legendaries

originally (as in when the games first came out) i hated a lot more, but those have turned into just meh pokemon for me so i didn't bother adding them in

 

[Sydian]

What's interesting for me is that some of the more hated designs, like the Vanillite and Trubbish line, are actually some of my favorites. I won't rave that they're super creative or anything. I enjoy the Vanillite line for the simplicity and silliness of it. It's just enough that I can't help but love it. As for Trubbish, I actually enjoy it because it makes sense with where Unova is based on. And Trubbish is kind of cute to me. But maybe I'm weird!

Some of my least favorite designs are the final evolution of each starter, Druddiggon, Sawk, Throh...those are what immediately spring to mind, anyway. Granted, I don't really outright hate very many Pokemon. In fact, one of my least favorite Pokemon, Zebstrika, is a great design, imo. I just dislike it for personal reasons.

Also, I really appreciate that we're all able to constructively criticize what we do and don't like about these games without this becoming a disaster, haha. I love these games to death, but I do have my grievances. Nice to know they're shared and I'm not alone!

 

[Xherdan]

So I've always been pretty vocal about how I felt about the fifth generation. I didn't care for most of the pokemon and characters. Since playing it when it first came out I've dubbed it the worst generation.

Recently I had replayed xy and then oras. I decided ya know I should really replay bw and give it another shot as a lot of time has passed and i'm no longer living in the shock of bad pokemon designs lol. I decided i had to start (black) it with an unbiased outlook if i was truly going to judge it fairly. I bred a team on another game and traded it over. the theme of my team was "pokemon with an edge" and it consisted of gothita, shelmet, huntail, litwick, deino, and bouffalant (to start).

This is what I took from my unbiased replay:
-All the designs I hated before I still do, there's really no getting around that part. it just is what it is.
-Most of the gym leaders weren't too memorable. I liked Brycen before and I still do now, but with addition to him I decided I really like Clay too.
-I found the game play was actually challenging which was nice! My team was usually neck and neck with the trainers around me. I even had to grind at one point before taking on skyla, which i havent had to do in a long time.
-I didn't find team plasma as annoying as i did the first time around, still not a fan of N.
-The encounter rate is INSANE, you literally cannot walk through grass/cave or surf without taking 2-5 steps and encountering a pokemon. I had to keep max repels on me constantly.
-There's a real lack of good water types/water types I'd actually want to use.
-After facing the elite four the first time around there's a huge level gap with the rest of unova that opens up. But yet before the elite four there's a decent level gap too, both were kind of annoying. And now yet again I've explored every area and I have nothing left to do but face the elite four for a second time and there's almost a 10 level gap between my pokemon and the champion's.
-The first few towns drag. As in I keep trying to move forward, but i am constantly being stopped usually by bianca/cheren to be told something or battled. i get that it's for the story but after a while it's just annoying. I had to live in fear of encountering them every time i started a new route or went to a new town.

Overall it's not terrible, but it's not a game I could see myself replaying over and over due to how much dialogue and constant stopping. i know i can just quickly click through it all, but that's a lot of clicking. basically i see it as more of a game you want to play if you want to dedicate a lot of time to it. Also i would never play it without being able to trade over a team because there's a real lack of variety for a long time in these games.

has anyone else given these games a second chance? how did it go for you?

I always loved the games.

The designs weren't really brilliant, but also weren't really bad. Some were sucky like Watchog and Garbodor, others weren't.

About Gym Leaders, i hated Lenora and Elesa. I really liked battles like Skyla, Drayden and Marlon. Clay was pretty annoying in BW, but he's not as annoying in BW2.

The game play was pretty challenging. I love how they added Challenge Mode in one of the remakes to make it even harder.

Team Plasma is only annoying in Chargestone Cave, in my opinion. I loved the Plasma Frigate and N's Castle. Also, in my opinion, it is the best evil organization.

It is truly frustrating. Thank God they added the wondrous function of using another repel at the same time the current one ended in the remakes.

I agree with you on it. I always kept myself entitled to stuff like Samurott and Seismitoad. I never got around to using Jellicent. Simipour sucks like its other two siblings, Basculin's lying there in the ignored corner, and Swanna was actually decent. Luckily, the remakes added Eeveelutions. I found Vaporeon to be great.

After the E4, the game just says "WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLD B*TCH" and goes hard mode. I still liked it though.

Bianca is very annoying, and Cheren just wants to fight normally. I also disliked those two a bit.

Other than some bad stuff here and there, i really enjoyed the games and the story.

 

[Bellsprout]

snip

I just want to clarify I'm only talking about BW. I totally agree with your points on BW2 though and I actually didn't mind those games when I first played them. The addition of past pokemon, a better rival, and a less annoying team plasma made these games so much better imo. It's just BW that I had a lot of problems with.

Basculin makes me so sad. It felt like such a throw away pokemon... they made two different forms which are barely different and then didn't give them evolutions. i think its one of the most forgettable pokemon in this gen. Also I really like Garbodor, I actually liked it from the start lol. it's cute in a really weird way that only i can see

 

[Sydian]

Basculin makes me so sad. It felt like such a throw away pokemon... they made two different forms which are barely different and then didn't give them evolutions. i think its one of the most forgettable pokemon in this gen. Also I really like Garbodor, I actually liked it from the start lol. it's cute in a really weird way that only i can see

Honestly one of the most forgettable Pokemon in the entire series, I would say. It's not interesting, not good in battle, and the design is bland. There's absolutely no reason for it to have two forms...or even exist, I would argue. I don't hate it, but it's seriously the definition of a filler Pokemon. It could have been treated better.

Also, let's bond over Garbodor tbh because I think it's cute also. :') The one I have in White is actually named Cute, lmao.

 

[llysender]

Just completed the main campaign today. Final team being Seperior/Swanna/Beritic/Druddigon/Galvanturia/Scraggy. Ghetsis being steamrolled by 6Xcoil Seperior is really cute.

My thoughts on the game(kind of unbiased I think)
-N's Castle is just a bad section. Stopping you every few seconds to info dump you is just bad. Would have been better if N spouted speach bubbles throughout the walk without taking control of your d-pad everythime.
-Interestingly the PETA fanatics and the group that just wants to see unova burn/freeze can be seen in this game
-While plasma suffers from same pokemon syndrome they are spaced far apart enough that it is pretty ok. The only plasma gauntlet I've issue with is the relic castle one due to how pointless it is.

-Pokemon diversity is actually really good in this game with new desirable pokemon even up to victory road
-Normal trainers in the routes are scarier then the gyms due to the variety of pokemon used and how hard unova pokemon hit.
-Victory road is as bad as I remember it. I miss auto repells from the sequel.
-E4 still hit hard, but scarggy/Galvantura/Seperior abuse made them pretty easy with the exception of Surantel due to how diverse her pokemon and movepool is.

-The streamlined and shortened routes actually help with the story telling.
-The gym leaders actually taking part in the main story is really nice. The only exception is skyla and the Striaton trio which are just there
-Interesting how both the challenge and the call to action only comes after the 7th gym but it flows so well into the the overall pace of the game.
-the rivals Cheren, Banaca and N overall kind of meh. If anything they seem pretty mellow but still interesting enough. I guess my main issue is that majority of their personality only develops at the end game and between BW and B2W2.

-music is really good
-battle sounds really need to bleed into the opposite speaker when using headphones. Its ok using the 3DS speakers though which was what I eventually did.

-Very biased opinion Cadric Juniper should have been the one that gave you your pokedex and be the primary evaluator since he is the one actually studding pokemon biology as Aurea Juniper is more historian and origins researcher.

Overall I would rate the White 1 a 7.8/10 and is a very enjoyable game with a really good level curve with a enjoyable story. My only issues are stated above and also too many rivals XD

 

[Spinosaurus]

Funny thing about Basculin...it really IS filler. Game Freak confirmed they whipped it up quickly because they forgot to put fish Pokemon.

Still, for a last minute Pokemon, I like it, and it's actually a monster in-game. Remember it being the MVP of my team when I played BW1 first time around. Adaptability is a stupid good ability.