5th Gen A solution to the HMs

[Twelfth Crusader]

What really annoyed about Ruby/Saphire was that there were three water HMs! I didn't want to take two water giys with me as it's a little inbalanced so my wate guy was forced to learn surf, waterfall and dive which was even more inbalanced!

 

[Major_Tom]

It would be better if hm's were erasable without the need of the move deleter. That way you could use them as a temporary move then erase them with a move suited better for your pokemon.

 

[MartinJF]

Each pokemon should have 4 "HM slots". Those moves could not be used in battle, but they would work like normal outside battles. That way we dont need to use move slots on useless hm's

 

[sampika08]

Why do we need a machine for a water pokemon to be able to swim? Surely firepokemon could burn down trees (no need for cut). Most pokemon can climb, see, and the likes. I think HMs should be removed for abilities. So water pokemon have the ability surf along with 4 moves.

 

[Mana1]

I would like the hidden machine to remain hidden : D

And rather than a HM it's a person who will train your pokémon so it can do something, but it takes up a <skill> slot rather than a move slot.

Different Pokémon could have different amounts of skill slots, and can obviously not learn things if they don't qualify.

 

[embercat]

I like your uprading idea PipVoda, that way youd only really need a rock hm, a water hm and then cut and maybe flash and whatever, i think they should make the moves stronger though, its so annoying having one of your main pokemon having a really weak mood. PiPVoda

bàwo ni?

 

[juanhbk1]

I have a solution, get the main character to do the swimming, climbing, tree chopping, etc. for once, stop the Pokemon abuse. lol.

This is smart except you can surf and fly but all the rock smashing, boulder moving, tree cutting and climbing to the main characters so once you beat a gym the HM distributors give you a kit like a axe, hammer and rope??

 

[Yamikarasu]

Moves like Cut, Rock Smash, Flash, and Rock Climb should be replaced with key items. Cut would be a sythe, Rock Smash would be... I dunno, think of something (Fists of Steel, maybe?It doesn't have to be serious :P), Flash would be a flashlight/lantern, and Rock Climb would be climbing boots.

If Game Freak doesn't like that idea, I also like the idea of Pokemon having extra move slots for field moves that they wouldn't use in battle. Give each Pokemon two extra slots, or maybe more, since in all likelihood you would want to put Surf, Dive, Waterfall, and Whirlpool on your water type.

EDIT: And why not just replace Surf, Dive, Waterfall, and Whirlpool with a single move? I mean, if a Pokemon can go over water, than surely it can dive under water as well? I've never thought it has made sense when you're surfing on your Vaporeon and then you have to use your Gyrados's Waterfall to go up the waterfall. It seems like one Pokemon should be able to everything, IMO.

 

[Timbjerr]

Am I the only one that's not bothered by HM moves? The only ones that are weak are Cut, Rock Smash, and Flash/Defog. Everything else is actually a worthwhile attack. In recent games, you rarely need cut and rock smash after a while, so you can have an early game HM slave that you replace later in the game. Defog and Flash are hardly even necessary even for navigational purposes if you're skilled enough. >_>

 

[Arma]

After you've beaten a gym a got permission to use surf, you should just be able to surf if any of your pokemon can learn the move. same goes with Fly, in the pokemon screen fly will appear when you select a pokemon that could learn fly in the previous generations.

 

[tvoza2]

i say get rid of cut entirely, slash should be there instead. same move, slash is just more powerful. and we dont need surf, we just need, say a jetski, a key item like the bike. and say hedgeclippers for cut. and if you've played pkmn raptor, replace rock climb with a climbing rope.

 

[blue]

It's annoying when you want a team of say 4 or 5, and you need HMs which are useless for battle (Rock smash, cut, defog ect.) in order to proceed in the storyline, the only two HM'S I like are Surf & Strength.

 

[EJ]

I agree with some of the tool ideas. Like we should get access to a small blade, hammer, climbing gear, and maybe even give him/her swimming capabilities. If the weird trainers can swim, why not us?

They can keep fly and strength because let's face it, we can't sprout wings or possess super-human power to push a massive boulder.

 

[Charmageddon]

Cut – Machete/Chainsaw
Surf – Boat, Speedboat
Dive – Scuba Kit
Rock Climb – Mountaineering Kit
Waterfall – Mountaineering Kit (waterfalls)
Rock Smash – Pickaxe/Drill
Flash – Flashlight
Fly – Jetpack



That's what it should be. I don't know what should replace Strength, I guess Rock Smash is pretty much the same thing anyway. Whirlpool and Defog can go die in a fire.

 

[Tyrantrum]

HMs I actually like: Surf, Fly, and Strength. All the other ones are stupid. Especially Cut and Rock Smash; the two most pointless HMs in every single Pokémon game! D:< I mostly want those two gone for good. The other would be... alright, I suppose. Keep Flash as a TM, and get rid of Defog. That was a stupid idea.

 

[Waffle-San]

Hmmm....

I'd love combinations.

However, if Scyther is available, or something else with technician, unlike you guys, I don't hate Cut and Rock Smash!

If I'm right on their original powers, Cut becomes 100, and Rock Smash becomes 80, suddenly making them useful!

But yeah, I've always thought just the size, type, etc. of the pokemon should change it.

I.e. Dragonite and Garchomp, between them, can do everything now.

But, surely they don't need moves for that?

It's x1.5 so they have a power of 75 and 60 repectively. I have to disagree with everyone saying Rock Smash is useless, I mean the 50% defense lower is so nice. Flash and DeFog are the useless ones.

We only need:
Fly
Surf
Special one for the Region

Because seriously, Rock Smash is a pain, so is Strength which is fine as an actual move.

I think to fix this, maybe we should get actual tools, like a hammer, older players afterall, rock climbing kit, and all that. But keep Surf and Fly.

I think this naive...I mean there's lots of tunnels that involve strength and what now. HM's are useful parts of the game and should not be taken out, they just need another way to implement them. My favourites would be the key items idea and my own about upgrading. Surf is the only HM you'd actually have to teach and it lets you climb waterfalls, dive etc. but you have to earn gym badges to unlock its secondary capabilities like diving and climbing waterfalls.

 

[BleuVII]

I have heard the idea of using key items before, but I agree with something I heard over on the Gamefaqs forums. These games are about pokemon, not items. As such, I am fully in favor of using your pokemon to get around the worldmap.

However, HMs have to go. I would love to see each pokemon having one to two movement abilities (that are not attacks). That way, you would have to build a team not only based on types, but also on movement abilities. So, for example, an Ursaring would have the "Strenght" and "Rock Smash" abilities, Tentacool would have "Surf," and when it evolves to Tentacruel, "Whirlpool" or "Dive." I would also like to see the bicycle replaced by a field move that allowed you to ride a fast pokemon like Rapidash.

That way, you could still keep Defog and Flash, but they would be one of two movement abilities, and they wouldn't take up an attack slot.

 

[Ωmega]

I really like the upgrading idea. I also like Skill Slot idea. How about we put the two together? I propose this:

Instead of upgrading from gaining a badge, how about the Skills--essentially the same as HMs--upgrade upon gaining Skill Points? Each battle would give Exp and Skill Points. Upon gaining enough Skill Points, the Skill would upgrade. For example, Mijumaru's Surf would eventually upgrade to Surf II (Surf w/ Whirlpool) then Surf III (Surf w/ Whirlpool and Waterfall). The HMs would still be moves, TMs, that can be given for move slots, but the Skills would be given at birth. Some Pokemon would have more than one Skill that would be determined at birth, much like Abilities and IVs. For example, Pelipper can know Surf and Fly. At birth, like IVs, its Skill would be different.

Also, there would be a limitation on which part of a Skill can be used before a certain badge, much like HMs can only be used after getting a certain badge. So, to clarify:

--HMs would be removed and instead be split into TMs and Skills. A Surf TM would behave the same as Surf I, not Surf II or III.
--Depending on their type and movepool, a Pokemon could have up to six variable Skills (frikkin' Bibarel...)
--Skills can be upgraded through battles, which would give Exp and Skill Points. Skill Points per battle are set while Exp is not.
--Skills can only be upgraded so far until a certain badge is received. This eliminates grinding for Skill Points.
--A Pokemon's Skill gauge (where the points are allocated, much like the Exp gauge) differs for the Pokemon. For example, Wingull's Surf Skill gauge would be smaller than Mijumaru's Surf Skill gauge.

If there's any loopholes in this system, just let me know. I spent all of math class thinking about this. :D

 

[Vrai]

As much as I don't like those HMs, they're going to be there like forever, because it's a part of the game we've come to know and love. We'll still have the good old stuff like fly and cut and such but whirlpool and dive and flash and defog were pretty region-specific, I think. We'll probably get another HM or two this generation but I doubt we'll exceed 8 total HMs like we've had in the last two generations.

Edit: butbutbut if they really do do anything with HMs, it would be nice if they were deletable by hand so that you can give your *insert grass starter here* Cut just so he can cut that one tree and then delete it for some much better TM. ):

 

[Waffle-San]

I really like the upgrading idea. I also like Skill Slot idea. How about we put the two together? I propose this:

Instead of upgrading from gaining a badge, how about the Skills--essentially the same as HMs--upgrade upon gaining Skill Points? Each battle would give Exp and Skill Points. Upon gaining enough Skill Points, the Skill would upgrade. For example, Mijumaru's Surf would eventually upgrade to Surf II (Surf w/ Whirlpool) then Surf III (Surf w/ Whirlpool and Waterfall). The HMs would still be moves, TMs, that can be given for move slots, but the Skills would be given at birth. Some Pokemon would have more than one Skill that would be determined at birth, much like Abilities and IVs. For example, Pelipper can know Surf and Fly. At birth, like IVs, its Skill would be different.

Also, there would be a limitation on which part of a Skill can be used before a certain badge, much like HMs can only be used after getting a certain badge. So, to clarify:

--HMs would be removed and instead be split into TMs and Skills. A Surf TM would behave the same as Surf I, not Surf II or III.
--Depending on their type and movepool, a Pokemon could have up to six variable Skills (frikkin' Bibarel...)
--Skills can be upgraded through battles, which would give Exp and Skill Points. Skill Points per battle are set while Exp is not.
--Skills can only be upgraded so far until a certain badge is received. This eliminates grinding for Skill Points.
--A Pokemon's Skill gauge (where the points are allocated, much like the Exp gauge) differs for the Pokemon. For example, Wingull's Surf Skill gauge would be smaller than Mijumaru's Surf Skill gauge.

If there's any loopholes in this system, just let me know. I spent all of math class thinking about this. :D

This is pretty complicated, which is usually a turn off for me when it comes to Pokemon but I love it!! The only thing that I don't like is changing HM's into TM's. Leave them as HMs (don't care about being deletable or not) but make them so they can still be taught over and over again. Besides that, it's pretty awesome! Complicated though.