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Abortion

Should abortion be legal?

  • Yes

    Votes: 31 53.4%

  • No

    Votes: 27 46.6%
  • Total voters
    58
  • Poll closed .
Whilst i agree, the origins of people being against abortion does come from religion, whether it's Christianity or another religion.

There's obviously more to take into consideration aswell than just whether it's a living being, it's about whether it can be classed as a child because the fetus isn't fully developed into a human child until roughly 4/5 months anyway
 
I can't read all of this right now, so I'm just going to state my opinion. I think it should be illegal UNLESS a 14 year old girl was raped by someone in her family, or even outside of her family. I think it should be her choice if she wants to let it go or keep it. Otherwise, if you have the responsibility to have sex, you should have the responsibility to give birth. I think if you don't want the baby, that it deserves a chance. It could make the world better, or be a good person, or save someones life. Put it up for adoption. Let it take it's chances. It could turn out bad, but it could turn out the best.

just my two cents. ;].

Oh, and also... later on, a lot of people really regret having the abortion.

That too.
 
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Radikaru said:
There's no right or wrong.
Everyone has a different stance on this, different opinions, etc., whether they're just personal things or from a religious standpoint.
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While I would normally agree with you (I have no place in saying what someone should believe or shouldn't believe), the pro-life crowds are threatening to take away the rights of women everywhere. And it's when a moral debate becomes a legality issue that I become involved. Because when it comes to outlawing rights, you can not just say "Well, people have different views". This is an issue that you must speak up and you must be heard, or else a right women had today may be gone tomorrow. That's why it's so important to fight this.

Erimgard said:
bringing me back to my point:
the legality of abortion shouldn't be based on religion, but whether or not it is murder by the standards of the nation.
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Murder is one of the few morality issues that's actually quite absolute (being, not relative) to the society. Everybody out there knows it's wrong to take the life of another human. And it should be based on science, always. It will always boil down to religion, because we really do not know, scientifically, if that parasite can be deemed a "life" or not. And anything ambiguous should be kept out of the coutrooms. Guilty until proven innocent; you can not outlaw something as big as this if you can't write the reason down in a science book.

Anyways, in conclusion, it will always boil down to religion. It's based on a fear of going to hell (as all morals are in religion). Outlawing it completely makes people feel safe. Falsely, of course. And people will always be willing to give up some of their personal freedom for the illusion of safety. Now that sentence is a fact.

I just woke up from an awesome nap, so forgive me if I'm a bit hazy. :-/
 
Richard Steel said:
While I would normally agree with you (I have no place in saying what someone should believe or shouldn't believe), the pro-life crowds are threatening to take away the rights of women everywhere. And it's when a moral debate becomes a legality issue that I become involved. Because when it comes to outlawing rights, you can not just say "Well, people have different views". This is an issue that you must speak up and you must be heard, or else a right women had today may be gone tomorrow. That's why it's so important to fight this.
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I do fight for that right, in fact.
I advocate human rights, and this includes the right to choose.
I'm just saying that this is why people will never completely agree with each other; I said nothing about fighting or not fighting. :P
 
Radikaru said:
I do fight for that right, in fact.
I advocate human rights, and this includes the right to choose.
I'm just saying that this is why people will never completely agree with each other; I said nothing about fighting or not fighting. :P
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Oh, I wasn't speaking to you directly... I was just saying it in general. XD

But you're right! People will never agree. Even if something is written in science books, there will always be people who believe the Earth is 6,000 years old. :P
 
Richard Steel said:
Oh, I wasn't speaking to you directly... I was just saying it in general. XD

But you're right! People will never agree. Even if something is written in science books, there will always be people who believe the Earth is 6,000 years old. :P
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Haha, sorry I misinterpreted!
I completely agree with what you said though; more people who believe that it should be a choice should take a stand, otherwise we're just letting ourselves be controlled, and that's quite sad.
I just wish people wouldn't completely reject the ideas of others, but there's not much that can be done about that. D:
 
Richard Steel said:
While I would normally agree with you (I have no place in saying what someone should believe or shouldn't believe), the pro-life crowds are threatening to take away the rights of women everywhere. And it's when a moral debate becomes a legality issue that I become involved. Because when it comes to outlawing rights, you can not just say "Well, people have different views". This is an issue that you must speak up and you must be heard, or else a right women had today may be gone tomorrow. That's why it's so important to fight this.



Murder is one of the few morality issues that's actually quite absolute (being, not relative) to the society. Everybody out there knows it's wrong to take the life of another human. And it should be based on science, always. It will always boil down to religion, because we really do not know, scientifically, if that parasite can be deemed a "life" or not. And anything ambiguous should be kept out of the coutrooms. Guilty until proven innocent; you can not outlaw something as big as this if you can't write the reason down in a science book.

Anyways, in conclusion, it will always boil down to religion. It's based on a fear of going to hell (as all morals are in religion). Outlawing it completely makes people feel safe. Falsely, of course. And people will always be willing to give up some of their personal freedom for the illusion of safety. Now that sentence is a fact.

I just woke up from an awesome nap, so forgive me if I'm a bit hazy. :-/
Click to expand...
I wouldn't say it all boils down to religion. I would say that scientists disagree on what constitutes 'intelligent' life. some say animals that are 'self-aware'
others say only humans.
the point being, legally, a human cannot be killed. so while it may seem hypocritical to kill an animal, at the point the fetus is officially 'human life' it would be illegal to kill it based solely on scientific terms and not religion.
and while I don't want to get into a religious debate here, I'm also not going to ignore the comment you made about the basis of religion. Some religions do not even believe in an eternal punishment of any kind, and I personally, as a Christian, do not have my beliefs because I fear hell. now I'm sure you'll disagree with me, but let's not argue in this thread about that. you can PM me if you want to discuss it.
 
Erimgard said:
the point being, legally, a human cannot be killed.
Click to expand...

Also, human beings (from what I know of) can also not get legally divorced. If people make threads about whether abortions should be legal or not; no one has brought up the idea of "If Divorces Should Be Legal Or Not" ideas. In what the priest or whatever the guy is, he says "Til Death To Us Part", I may have a word or two wrong in there, but the idea is right. So technicaly, when you marry, you can not break up unless one dies.

Same ideas really. Sorry if this is considered spam or not; I just felt like sharing my two cents on that bit. ^_^;
 
it is not illegal to get divorced.
it's not illegal to lie, unless in some sort of judicial circumstance. if it was illegal to break one's oath of marriage and get divorced...their would be some pretty severe overcrowding in the prison systems :P
I don't really get the point you're trying to make here
 
Erimgard said:
it is not illegal to get divorced.
it's not illegal to lie, unless in some sort of judicial circumstance. if it was illegal to break one's oath of marriage and get divorced...their would be some pretty severe overcrowding in the prison systems :P
I don't really get the point you're trying to make here
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It should be. However, the idea of whether divorce should be illegal or not has long since past. At one point in time, it would have had a debate like this abortion thread. But back then, they decided that if they get permissions from lawyers/judges/priests or whatnot, then they are allowed to. Just like if abortions are made legal, all you need is the parents' permissions and the doctor's permission.

I was merely making a connection.
 
Erimgard said:
I wouldn't say it all boils down to religion. I would say that scientists disagree on what constitutes 'intelligent' life. some say animals that are 'self-aware'
others say only humans.
the point being, legally, a human cannot be killed. so while it may seem hypocritical to kill an animal, at the point the fetus is officially 'human life' it would be illegal to kill it based solely on scientific terms and not religion.
and while I don't want to get into a religious debate here, I'm also not going to ignore the comment you made about the basis of religion. Some religions do not even believe in an eternal punishment of any kind, and I personally, as a Christian, do not have my beliefs because I fear hell. now I'm sure you'll disagree with me, but let's not argue in this thread about that. you can PM me if you want to discuss it.
Click to expand...

The "science" of the issue is based solely on a moral one, however. When you think about it, there's no scientific reason not to kill another human being, or not to kill anything living for that matter. It's completely based on morals. And the science issue (based off a moral one) is whether or not a fetus is really technically a "life" or not. Of course, science doesn't exactly fit into this debate all that well, when what someone considers a "life" can change. And that's where the actual debate comes from. A moral view on what life is, and since most, if not all, morals stem from religion, then I conclude that this is a religious debate.

As I've said before, what this issue is really about is the freedom to choose.

I never really understood the opposition, come to think about it. If you don't like abortions, don't have one. But don't take it into the courtroom and say that no one can have an abortion just because you believe a microscopic piece of gloop is a life. Once you get the facts in that the parasites are scientifically a life, then you can take it to the law. So these people should spend their money on research, not spend their money firebombing abortion clinics.

I, personally, dislike most rap music; I believe a majority of it causes murder, discrimination, sexism, and a boat load of rather unfriendly events. However, I refuse to take it to the extreme of saying rap music should be completely illegal. Get what I'm saying?

When we live in a country that goes bomb happy on our fellow human beings, killing thousands of civilians just because they don't look like us, act like us, or agree with us, abortion is one of the last things that should be on our mind.
 
well of course it all boils down to morality, as does every law. if you're saying it should be legal because the only opposition to it is religious morality, then everything should be legal.
as for your rap analogy, I see what you mean, but the difference is:
If it is murder to have an abortion it should be outlawed.
If the rappers themselves break a law, they are to be punished. the music style itself is not the cause. in my opinion, for you to produce such filth, or be that easily influenced, you have problems all of your own
 
I personally think it should be illegal, god doesn't give humans the right to take away another human life, if the baby isn't wanted, then it should be sent to a foster home, not killed, I want to show you guys something and then you might have a different opinion:

Can you imagine what people have to be thinking when they decide to turn this:

[PokeCommunity.com] Abortion


Into this:

Spoiler:


I know that it is extremely disgusting just to look at, could you imagine being the person that had to do it?
 
~Kazaam~ said:
I personally think it should be illegal, god doesn't give humans the right to take away another human life, if the baby isn't wanted, then it should be sent to a foster home, not killed, I want to show you guys something and then you might have a different opinion:

Can you imagine what people have to be thinking when they decide to turn this:

[PokeCommunity.com] Abortion


Into this:

Spoiler:


I know that it is extremely disgusting just to look at, could you imagine being the person that had to do it?
Click to expand...

lmfao. Thats pretty sad. People already know the difference between them, so were you just like.. trying to somehow make us feel guilty about it or something? I doubt that will change people's mind on this subject.

As for me, I stand by what I said before. I do not care if one single baby dies; to be honest, I'd hardly care if a more matured human being died. Also, in a public place like this, the way you used the term "God" can be quite offensive to some people. Firstly, not everyone believes in a god, also, different religions believe in different gods. You should have worded it more/less like this "Most god/gods/godess/godesses would not like humans to kill other humans" etc. And even in that case, you can still offend people who don't believe in any kind of god/goddess at all. So, on a forum like this, you should refrain from using such termonology. I'm not try to bash you, just trying to avoid any big fights starting up here; because no one likes fights.
 
~Kazaam~ said:
All I can say is STFU, I believe in god so I don't really care what other people believe in.
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Yeah... I'm an Atheist, and I stand by that. I respect your belief, however I do not respect how you show your belief. Try to keep "God" out of a debate like this.

And about your pictures... "shock treatment" doesn't work. If you want to see something truly disturbing, google picture "harlequin ichthyosis"... it's a defect babies are born with, and is almost always fatal. It's very rare, though... randomized? Or perhaps just an "act of God".
 
My opinion is that it is a cruel, humane act. For one reason it was the parents child there is no diffrence between murder and abortion to me. As said before foster home it not kill just because you don't want the baby. In every religon law whatever you want, the death of any by another is cruel in every way!
 
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