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Abortion

Should abortion be legal?

  • Yes

    Votes: 31 53.4%
  • No

    Votes: 27 46.6%

  • Total voters
    58
  • Poll closed .
I'm not going to get too deep into this conversation, because it's basically going to come down to morality...but I will pose this question:
at what point does it go from a potential life form to a living creature? is there a certain amount of days? a certain stage of development?

Basically there is. Thats what the last thread eventualyl came down to.

However, a life is a life. It is living when it was just a sperm and an egg. It is still living, just as one being now.

However, somone brought up an excellent point (which IMO, trumped the whole arguement and said) "A person truely becomes alive only after they were givin birth to; the DAY they came out of their mom. This is when they are given life and birth; hence we call that day their BIRTHDAY"

So technically, if you find this statement true, you agree with abortion, or you should imo. o.O If you don't agree with this, you're birthday ahs been off every year and it should be changed. But I hardly doubt you could because you wouldn't know when your birthday should be ebcause you don't know when you were given life. DAMAR.

p.s. I didn't directly quote that, I just powerphrased basically. >_>
 
true, but that raises the question:
What if you are aborted on your 'birthday' before you come out? or what if you are mostly out, but still partly in your mother? even if you narrow it down to the exact day...there is still a gray area.
 
The day you were being born? You still could. I don't have a problem with it.

Hell, in my opinion, I should only be considered to be 11, as I'm not concious of ANYTHING before the age of 5, however, I can remember waking up on 5:00AM on my 5th birthday.

Anywho, if its half in and half out, then its physically pointless to have an abortion. If you really wouldn't want to let it live when its half out of you, then you're either desperate because you're in so much pain (which is normal anyways) or you could just ask the doctor to kill it on the spot and then like, just finish pushing it out. >_>
 
I think its nice to have the option of abortion. But if a girl gets pregnance through carelessness (with the exception of broken condoms), then its her mistake and she and the father should have to live with it.

So I guess my vote is it should be legal, but with some strings attached.
 
I don't think that it is wrong because yea your killing the baby but if the mother isn't ready to have a baby then thats up to her. Personally I'll never ever get an abortion and if times get worst I'll give up my baby for adoption.



:t354:TG
 
Ah well, I really think it depends on the mother and what she thinks is best. Sure, there are much better ways of handling the baby such as adoption or living with what happened, but not everyone can emotionally or physically do that.

That's why this is such a hard topic, I mean if the baby is going to be ill or hurt in some way, you wouldn't want it to suffer all its life. And just giving the baby up for adoption isn't going to change that. Some mothers just don't want to imagine having to watch their children living like that [ill or in a bad state].

So yeah, it's up to the mother and what she truely believes would work the best for the situation the baby would be in.
 
Sorry, but what the mother thinks best my rear end. If she did it unprotected for fun and she gets stuck with a baby, then she's gonna wanna get rid of it for sure if abortion is made legal and that's just sickening. I understand about the rape point but it's still a girl's problem to deal with. She could've stayed indoors with at least her family or trustworthy people, not wear the classic little skirts on outings, whatever. And if the baby has disabilities or even bad parents, so what. Plenty of people overcome the odds and make do with what they got; the baby would just have to accept who he/she is and overcome more obstacles than the average person. Life isn't fair for everyone but that doesn't mean it's right to end a baby's life to prevent it from future suffering. I don't know about you guys but I'd rather live the most miserable life than live no life at all. Ruining a baby's life for someone else's mistake... Bah. I can't stand someone dumping off their problems and not taking responsibility for their actions. And abortion, in my opinion, is dumping off a problem that they don't want to deal with.
 
For a question like this, I really don't believe that it can simply be answered with "yes" or "no." I mean, in some cases, I believe it's necessary, like when the fetus threatens the mother's life. At that point, chances are, if the mother is killed by the fetus, then the fetus dies too. You might as well save the mother's life, even if it means ending the fetus'. Of course, a case in which this scenario occurs is rare, but it still happens.

Otherwise, I don't believe that abortion should be used as a contraceptive (or, generally, to end a pregnancy simply because the mother doesn't want to be pregnant/the baby itself). It's serious irresponsibility and stupidity on the parents' part, considering there are ways to prevent conception in the first place, including condoms, birth control pills, abstinence... And, of course, a number of other nifty pieces of technology meant to prevent sperm from getting to the egg. Point is, if you did it without all those failsafes, then chances are, you should probably grow up and keep the baby at least until birth. After that, then sure, you can put it up for adoption. It's not like the hospital won't give you the right contacts for it.

So, I guess in that case, I could say I'm sort of for it. As in, it's wrong in some cases but okay in others. It depends on the individual case.

Also, to Erimgard, at that point, Ullion is right. Because, you know, no doctor would actually perform abortion on a woman in labor, and no woman would be stupid enough to not know she was in labor (unless she was on some heavy crack at the time or something).
 
How long is this thread going to last before self-destructing? I'll bet one more page.

Yes, I do believe it should be legal. I believe very passionately about this. Much better to plan parenthood -- in many cases, not be parents at all -- than have an unwanted baby, to bring it into a world where it won't be wanted or cared for properly. People think that foetuses have more rights than people. To me, the selfish thing is just having the baby because you ~*want it*~ or you think it's murder. I don't see any proof that it's a fully-developed, sentient being. What if your parents had chosen abortion? You wouldn't be here. It's as simple as that.

Most people aren't even capable of embracing the responsibility parenthood brings.

Oh, and adoption? I'm fairly sure there is no shortage of orphans that could be adopted. There are so many older kids that need adoption, and babies, too, and the number doesn't need to go up. What's the point of going through with it just to put it up for adoption?

ETA: Oh, and hm. Religion as a justification for a law that affects everyone? I'm not even going to bother with separation of church and state, because that's just a dream in America, but religion does NOT affect everyone. Many people do not believe in Christianity. Or Islam, Judaism, Hindu, etc. I consider myself a Christian, but I do not think that's a reason to remove an important service that I personally think has done a lot more good for humanity than not.
 
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~The song Can I live? by Nick Cannon comes to mind here ^^

World's Smallest Baby

This child, and her twin sister, were born 15 weeks premature, and yet still survived. In a lot of countries, abortion is legal up until the end of the second trimester, and these two children were born during the second trimester. Laws of numerous nations would have permitted the death of the unborn baby girls for at least two more weeks or so.

I honestly can't see how people don't perceive abortion as murder.

On the issue of rape, I can't say the child should be considered a punishment for the mother. I consider all life to be a miracle. Moreover, it's not that easy to have a child, and so any pregnancy is a miracle in itself. I don't advocate rape in any way or form, but if a child is a result of such an incident, then there's a positive side for you.

Life may have it's ups and downs, but it's still something incredible. Killing the child cause it may have a crummy upbringing or life is just stupid and overly negative in my opinion. As long as it lives it still has a chance to experience something positive. The only time I'd support abortion is if the mother's life was placed at risk, and even so, those situations still require a lot of thought. Hopefully no one here will ever have to go through such a situation.

Parents even mourn if an unborn child dies due to a miscarriage. I'm no mother, but I'm sure knowing that there's something growing and living inside, developing limbs, even moving about and kicking, and the simple presence of a heartbeat makes it clear that there is a living person inside.

ETA: Oh, and hm. Religion as a justification for a law that affects everyone? I'm not even going to bother with separation of church and state, because that's just a dream in America, but religion does NOT affect everyone. Many people do not believe in Christianity. Or Islam, Judaism, Hindu, etc. I consider myself a Christian, but I do not think that's a reason to remove an important service that I personally think has done a lot more good for humanity than not.
Morality justifies laws, not religion. And I'm curious as to how abortion has done good for humanity. Isn't the removing of a life, or even the chance of life, a negative thing?
 
How long is this thread going to last before self-destructing? I'll bet one more page.

Yes, I do believe it should be legal. I believe very passionately about this. Much better to plan parenthood -- in many cases, not be parents at all -- than have an unwanted baby, to bring it into a world where it won't be wanted or cared for properly. People think that foetuses have more rights than people. To me, the selfish thing is just having the baby because you ~*want it*~ or you think it's murder. I don't see any proof that it's a fully-developed, sentient being. What if your parents had chosen abortion? You wouldn't be here. It's as simple as that.

Most people aren't even capable of embracing the responsibility parenthood brings.

Oh, and adoption? I'm fairly sure there is no shortage of orphans that could be adopted. There are so many older kids that need adoption, and babies, too, and the number doesn't need to go up. What's the point of going through with it just to put it up for adoption?

ETA: Oh, and hm. Religion as a justification for a law that affects everyone? I'm not even going to bother with separation of church and state, because that's just a dream in America, but religion does NOT affect everyone. Many people do not believe in Christianity. Or Islam, Judaism, Hindu, etc. I consider myself a Christian, but I do not think that's a reason to remove an important service that I personally think has done a lot more good for humanity than not.

^^^This is why abortion should not be bought up in a forum with an age average of 15. The only time when you can put in an opinion on abortion is when you actually had a child. Go through parenthood first and than talk to me about what I should do with my child. (For the record, I'm a mother of a two year old who is an unplanned pregnacy.)

I believe that abortion should only be used as a last resort such as debilitating illness and what not. Any parent would not want their child to live a life pain and suffering. I do not believe that a child should be aborted if they will have missing limbs. It's almost saying that amputees do not deserve to live. I know someone who was born with out an arm and they live a happy life. They obviously would not like hearing that amputees should be aborted.

Abortion is not something that should be handed out like M&Ms. The scares that it leaves you with cannot heal. The emotional ones and the psychical ones. One of my girlfriends got an abortion and went into a deep depression because of it. And there are more women out there who have gone through the same thing has her. Abortion is a traumatic experience that no woman should go through with unless their life is on the line.

Plus, I count it has murder. If it has a heart beat, it is a alive. A fetus knows whats going in it's little bubble by the time it's four months old. It can feel the pain of abortion. It knows that it's life is being ended before it can breath.

And to be honest, I doubt you like it if your mother told you she considered aborting you.

I think this thread should be close.

Edit: As for adoption, I think no child should go through the system.
 
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ETA: Oh, and hm. Religion as a justification for a law that affects everyone? I'm not even going to bother with separation of church and state, because that's just a dream in America, but religion does NOT affect everyone. Many people do not believe in Christianity. Or Islam, Judaism, Hindu, etc. I consider myself a Christian, but I do not think that's a reason to remove an important service that I personally think has done a lot more good for humanity than not.

The abortion debate will always sizzle down to a religious argument. That's why it can never be logically won.

But I'm for abortion. And thus, I'm also completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together would be certain death.

Abortion is not something that should be handed out like M&Ms. The scares that it leaves you with cannot heal. The emotional ones and the psychical ones. One of my girlfriends got an abortion and went into a deep depression because of it. And there are more women out there who have gone through the same thing has her. Abortion is a traumatic experience that no woman should go through with unless their life is on the line.

Plus, I count it has murder. If it has a heart beat, it is a alive. A fetus knows whats going in it's little bubble by the time it's four months old. It can feel the pain of abortion. It knows that it's life is being ended before it can breath.

And to be honest, I doubt you like it if your mother told you she considered aborting you.

I disagree with that on so many levels. We're not talking about forced shock treatment - we're talking about choice. That's what this debate should be about. Abortion isn't about whether or not a microscopic piece of goo inside of a woman is living or not (because I agree that partial birth abortion is taking things a bit far), abortion is rater about if the woman has the right to choose to abort a little parasite leeching away her own nutrients.

Have you ever heard of a Human Bot Fly? Long story short, the Bot Fly egg hatches on a human, buries itself into your skin, and continues to feed off of you until it comes out and turns into a pretty little fly. Should having that removed be considered murder? The problem with people that consider abortion murder is the inconsistency of what a "life" really is. Isn't it arrogant to think human life is the only important life? I love it when people talk about the morality of preserving life, and go home and squish a cockroach. If you're going to be "pro-life", you really have to go the full monty. You can't pick and choose what life you think it worth saving, because the truth is that there are too many life forms out there that are far better than us; the pitiful, pointless, destroying humans we are.

I've always wanted to start a campaign to "save the bacteria". I'd love a bumper sticker like that. Bacteria is technically a life... so if you're gonna be "pro-life", you might as well be "pro-bacteria" as well. In the case of logical morality, you have no choice.

As for the politics of the issue, being the right-wing Conservatives (AKA, wingnuts), there's also an inconsistency. These same people are often times pro-war/pro-government. The Government's opinion is that your life is important until you're born, then they don't give a crap about you. (Until you're of army recruiting age! Then they love you again).

Politically speaking, abortion can be summed up like this:
"If you're pre-born, you're fine; if you're pre-school, you're effed."
 
I disagree with that on so many levels. We're not talking about forced shock treatment - we're talking about choice. That's what this debate should be about. Abortion isn't about whether or not a microscopic piece of goo inside of a woman is living or not (because I agree that partial birth abortion is taking things a bit far), abortion is rater about if the woman has the right to choose to abort a little parasite leeching away her own nutrients.

Have you ever heard of a Human Bot Fly? Long story short, the Bot Fly egg hatches on a human, buries itself into your skin, and continues to feed off of you until it comes out and turns into a pretty little fly. Should having that removed be considered murder? The problem with people that consider abortion murder is the inconsistency of what a "life" really is. Isn't it arrogant to think human life is the only important life? I love it when people talk about the morality of preserving life, and go home and squish a cockroach. If you're going to be "pro-life", you really have to go the full monty. You can't pick and choose what life you think it worth saving, because the truth is that there are too many life forms out there that are far better than us; the pitiful, pointless, destroying humans we are.

I've always wanted to start a campaign to "save the bacteria". I'd love a bumper sticker like that. Bacteria is technically a life... so if you're gonna be "pro-life", you might as well be "pro-bacteria" as well. In the case of logical morality, you have no choice.

As for the politics of the issue, being the right-wing Conservatives (AKA, wingnuts), there's also an inconsistency. These same people are often times pro-war/pro-government. The Government's opinion is that your life is important until you're born, then they don't give a crap about you. (Until you're of army recruiting age! Then they love you again).

Politically speaking, abortion can be summed up like this:
"If you're pre-born, you're fine; if you're pre-school, you're effed."

This is the type of answer I'd been waiting on. I agree with you 100% on this one. That's the beauty of debates: You speak your mind, clash different ideas, and get others to wonder about different concepts. At any rate, Richard Steel took the words right out of my mouth. It's up to the parents (Mostly the mother) on weather or not the abortion occurs.
 
There's no right or wrong.
Everyone has a different stance on this, different opinions, etc., whether they're just personal things or from a religious standpoint.

Personally I think it should be legal because it should be the parents' choice, and no one else's.
I'm heavily pro-choice; what other people do has no effect on me, so I don't really care either way.

That said, I adore babies and wish with all my being to become a good mother.
If I had an unplanned pregnancy, unless it was absolutely necessary for one reason or another, I would probably not be able to abort.
 
This will never be ended. It will always have people saying it should or should not be legal.
Don't want to debate about this.
I think it should be legal. But only in certain circumstances. Like if the woman was raped or was in danger for her life if she had it.
But if it is down to being stupid enough to not use protection then they shouldn't be allowed to have an abortion. That is just there own stupidity that has help them become pregnant.
 
So technically, if you find this statement true, you agree with abortion, or you should imo. o.O If you don't agree with this, you're birthday ahs been off every year and it should be changed. But I hardly doubt you could because you wouldn't know when your birthday should be ebcause you don't know when you were given life. DAMAR.
That is indeed a good point. However, no matter what the case, I am very glad we have our birthdays as of our, ah, exit from the mother's womb because having your birthday literally being the night your parents conceived you? That's just a bit disturbing. :| HAPPY BIRTHDAY THOUGHTS, HUH? (Haha, sorry, couldn't resist commenting here.)
Sorry, but what the mother thinks best my rear end. If she did it unprotected for fun and she gets stuck with a baby, then she's gonna wanna get rid of it for sure if abortion is made legal and that's just sickening. I understand about the rape point but it's still a girl's problem to deal with. She could've stayed indoors with at least her family or trustworthy people, not wear the classic little skirts on outings, whatever.
Um... oh wow. You do know that people don't just get raped for dressing a little promiscuous? It can happen to ANYONE for ANY REASON. Staying inside 24/7 to avoid rape is stupid, not to mention it can actually happen in your own house too. I'm not saying it's unsafe everywhere, but your perception of how and why it happens seem to be a little off. I'm not going to spout off statistics I'm unsure of, but as far as I know, most sexual abuse comes from people you know... not random strangers picking girls off the street in a miniskirt at sundown. I've never been close to that kind of situation and I'm still a little insulted by that. :|
 
The scares that it leaves you with cannot heal. The emotional ones and the psychical ones. One of my girlfriends got an abortion and went into a deep depression because of it. And there are more women out there who have gone through the same thing has her.

This pertains to something I wanted to bring up. Everyone keeps saying that women who use abortion as a contraceptive should be out of luck, but does that ever actually happen? If it's really an invasive and painful process as I would think it is I don't think women go around saying "Don't worry about a condom I can just get an abortion later lol"
 
Abortion should be legal because women should have the right to choice

The law shouldn't be governed by religious views
 
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