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Abortion.

ceremony

rah rah
121
Posts
15
Years

  • I don't find the religious right all that religious. Compassion and forgiveness seems to have flown out the window.

    And someone who murders in the name of any god, isn't religious. Just deranged. Or rather, they may act in the name of religion but aren't following their faith appropriately. I'd say religion was a cause just as much as the Beatles were cause for the Manson murders. Which is to say, not at all. Justification from a crazy person.

    Well, exactly. They pick and choose what to follow and what to ignore. I remember Ron Paul being booed when he talked about the Golden Rule at a debate.

    It's an excuse to act that way. If they had no religion, they'd find another reason to hate.
     

    droomph

    weeb
    4,285
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  • What? Golden Rule? America? What?

    Well, that's the thing. If you're going to have an abortion, and there has been no religion at all for millions of years (for some strange reason) they're still going to find a reason for you to "NOT KILL UNWANTED FETUSES BWAAAA"
     

    CrazyMrHans

    Drunk and slightly Irish
    37
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    12
    Years

  • Imprisonment, I assume. I think that's what you get for breaking most laws.
    Not life in prison? Not execution?

    OK, I'll apologise for getting angry, but I don't appreciate people belittling the holocaust, and thinking that they could possibly understand the trauma behind rape without experiencing it themselves, all anyone can say for certain is that it's horrible.

    That being said, on with the debate! If abortion were made illegal, then wouldn't women who accidentally fell down the stairs and landed on their bellies be guilty of manslaughter? If that foetus were to spontaneously miscarry, based on an uncontrollable lifestyle factor of the woman, say, she's too poor to eat properly. Would she be guilty of criminal neglect?


    How dare me? How dare you decide that a human being doesn't have the right to live because of the way it's conceived? And yeah, I know what happened in the holocaust. A white nationalist slaughtered ten million people and justified it by dehumanizing them. Kind of like today how female nationalists justify the slaughter of innocent children by dehumanizing them. The trauma of a rape victim is no excuse to take an innocent life in the same way that the trauma of a serial killer's childhood doesn't give him the right to kill others. And I find it hilarious that you're questioning my integrity, MY INTEGRITY when you're sitting there justifying the deaths of innocent people! I could lower myself to your level and insult you but quite frankly what's the point? I have about as much respect for you as I have for those who say that the Jews deserved to die in the holocaust. You justify the murder of innocent people, end of story.
    I never said that unborn children don't deserve to live, on the whole I don't feel comfortable with abortions but that doesn't matter; what makes me uncomfortable shouldn't be made law. Fact of the matter is an unborn child is incapable of surviving without direct connection to its mother, hence its mother should be allowed, under her discretion, to choose to have it aborted. It is still part of her body, she's allowed to do with it what she wishes.

    I'm not going to beat around the bush. Abortion is murder, and murder should be punishable by death. So unless the two exceptions are the reasons for the abortion, they must pay with their lives. You may try to take the moral high ground because of this, but the problem is that you don't have the moral high ground. Like I said, you're defending murder.
    You think you have the moral high ground huh? OK, I'm not the one defending the murder of what everybody agrees on to be actual, living people. They may have committed some serious crime, but that does not facilitate killing them under a banner of "justice". If you support the death penalty, then anybody can say with exact certainty that you support murder. Me? Only some people think I support murder; a lot of them just believe that I respect the choices of other people. An eye for an eye leaves the world blind, a life for a life begets an endless cycle of murder.

    Much like you trivialize the human life. Also, note that if you insult me again, I'll report you. I didn't want to enter this debate specifically because of angry morally challenged liberals screaming their hollow heads off because they lack a real argument.
    I'm not the one comparing the death of one thing that not everybody agrees on as being alive, for often perfectly justifiable reasons, to the discriminate killing of millions of actual, living people for no reason.
    Morally challenged? I'm sorry but I don't need a book written two thousand years ago by some bloke living in a tent in the desert to define how I live my life, my morals are my own, you're the one leaning on the crutch of religion and using it to justify your claims.
    Bear in mind, I consider being compared to a Nazi a serious insult, furthermore you constantly say that anyone who doesn't agree with you doesn't value life, I'd say that's pretty damn insulting. So stop that before I report you.
     

    droomph

    weeb
    4,285
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  • ^ good points.

    I think we should all take the mindset of "I stand for my beliefs, but I shall consider yours."

    That being said, I think we should have abortions, but with severely limited access (e.g. women living below the poverty line, proven rape victims, etc.). So the people who want it abolished have it fulfilled for their reasons, and the people who want it to stay legal can have their own reasons.

    btw I'm just thinking...why is this becoming fighting now? It's...just...
     

    jpp8

    Producer
    187
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    • Seen Sep 19, 2013
    Respecting opinions is one thing. I will not however respect anyone's opinion should that opinion oppress the rights of another. If you don't like abortions, that's fine. Just don't get one. That's your choice. However, allowing abortions only if they are "justified" is just as ridiculous if not more than the restrictions already in place on abortion. They only act as a medically unnecessary obstruction. No other justification for an abortion is needed than that the pregnant person has every right to do what they wish with their body.
     

    jpp8

    Producer
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    Considering that there are about 1.21 million abortions a year in the us alone, that's like 2.3 abortions a minute, so yeah, it's kind of right. Except for the baby killing part. Until it is born, it is still a clump of cells known as a fetus. Also, do consider that the United States' population is about 300 million, so 1.21 million isn't even 1% of the population.
     

    Nihilego

    [color=#95b4d4]ユービーゼロイチ パラサイト[/color]
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  • Not life in prison? Not execution?

    No. My opinions on execution as a penalty aren't completely solid, but I know that even if I did agree with it, I wouldn't want it used in the case of abortion. Same thing for life in prison. Not that life sentences ever really last for the whole lifetime of the imprisoned anyway.

    That being said, on with the debate! If abortion were made illegal, then wouldn't women who accidentally fell down the stairs and landed on their bellies be guilty of manslaughter? If that foetus were to spontaneously miscarry, based on an uncontrollable lifestyle factor of the woman, say, she's too poor to eat properly. Would she be guilty of criminal neglect?

    Ugh that's a good point. I guess, if such a law were to exist, it'd have to apply only to deliberate abortion. Under the circumstances you mentioned, there would be no punishment. However, was the woman doing such things deliberately, that'd still count as deliberate abortion and would still be punishable.

    TheFattestSnorlax said:
    "Abortion kills a baby every 24 seconds."

    Roadside billboard i've seen several times. Is that true?

    If you want to say that abortion is "killing babies" then I imagine that's fairly accurate. Depends, though, on if you see a fetus as a living thing.
     

    CrazyMrHans

    Drunk and slightly Irish
    37
    Posts
    12
    Years


  • No. My opinions on execution as a penalty aren't completely solid, but I know that even if I did agree with it, I wouldn't want it used in the case of abortion. Same thing for life in prison. Not that life sentences ever really last for the whole lifetime of the imprisoned anyway.



    Ugh that's a good point. I guess, if such a law were to exist, it'd have to apply only to deliberate abortion. Under the circumstances you mentioned, there would be no punishment. However, was the woman doing such things deliberately, that'd still count as deliberate abortion and would still be punishable.

    But surely, if the foetus is living person, then the law for it should be the same as for that of any human being? How can you hold the view that life begins at conception and then turn around and say that the punishments for infringements upon that life should not be equivalent?
     

    BZW Golem

    Conspirator~
    142
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  • Abortion is one of the things that are not either completely right or wrong.
    Everything depends on the circumstances, I believe that most of the time the decision that is made is not "right" but..
    "not as wrong as the other option".

    I really hate when things like this are judged as "right and wrong", "black and white"..

    everything depends on the circumstances, and most of the time we don't know enough to judge somebody.

    The sad thing are people that without even trying to understand the other, hate them for "killing a poor baby".
     

    Nihilego

    [color=#95b4d4]ユービーゼロイチ パラサイト[/color]
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  • But surely, if the foetus is living person, then the law for it should be the same as for that of any human being? How can you hold the view that life begins at conception and then turn around and say that the punishments for infringements upon that life should not be equivalent?

    I never said that I think the current punishments for infringements upon life are fair. I think the punishments should be equivalent but, as current laws stand, that couldn't happen unless they were to change too. I don't, for example, think that manslaughter should always be punishable, and the same goes here.

    ...if that makes sense.
     
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  • Going back a few posts to address the issue of female infanticide (that is, the practice of aborting female fetuses specifically because they aren't male). It's horrible, no question, but if someone is saying that elective abortions allow some people to choose boy children over girls and abort girl fetuses and that this is a reason to not allow abortion they are missing the point a little. It's not a reason to restrict abortion. It's a reason to teach people the value of girl children so they don't want to abort their would-be girls.

    "Abortion kills a baby every 24 seconds."

    Roadside billboard i've seen several times. Is that true?
    That depends on whether you consider abortion murder. Obviously the people who put up that billboard think so, but plenty of people would disagree. I would be suspicious of their claim that an abortion happens every 24 seconds. That's 3600 times a day. Unless they are referring to the entire world I would think that number is too high to be believed.
     

    jpp8

    Producer
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    That depends on whether you consider abortion murder. Obviously the people who put up that billboard think so, but plenty of people would disagree. I would be suspicious of their claim that an abortion happens every 24 seconds. That's 3600 times a day. Unless they are referring to the entire world I would think that number is too high to be believed.

    There are 43.8 million abortions worldwide annually, which is about 120,000 abortions daily. Again, 1.21 million abortions a year in the us alone, that's like 2.3 abortions a minute or 3315 abortions a day. The statistic is right in saying that on average, there is an abortion almost every 24 seconds. That being said, a baby is actually born about every 6 seconds in the us. Depending on your stance on the issue, the billboard would either be effective in creating a bit of empathy for fetuses or just a "so what?"
     
    Last edited:

    CrazyMrHans

    Drunk and slightly Irish
    37
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    Years


  • I never said that I think the current punishments for infringements upon life are fair. I think the punishments should be equivalent but, as current laws stand, that couldn't happen unless they were to change too. I don't, for example, think that manslaughter should always be punishable, and the same goes here.

    ...if that makes sense.


    My opinions on execution as a penalty aren't completely solid, but I know that even if I did agree with it, I wouldn't want it used in the case of abortion. Same thing for life in prison.

    I think life begins at conception.

    COGNITIVE DISSONANCE

    I wanted to only write cognitive dissonance because I feel it was a much more succinct and impactful response, this text is here to reach the character limit.
     

    Karma Police

    Arrest this man
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    Going back a few posts to address the issue of female infanticide (that is, the practice of aborting female fetuses specifically because they aren't male). It's horrible, no question, but if someone is saying that elective abortions allow some people to choose boy children over girls and abort girl fetuses and that this is a reason to not allow abortion they are missing the point a little. It's not a reason to restrict abortion. It's a reason to teach people the value of girl children so they don't want to abort their would-be girls.

    Yeaaaah since I brought that up I should respond.

    I actually am in the favor of abortion precisely because of female infanticide in my country. It's a pretty bad case here, and for the girl child it's a lose-lose situation here. Basically, prenatal tests are forbidden here to make sure people don't know the gender so that they won't abort specifically because of that. But then, the people who don't want a girl don't really hesitate to kill the girl once she is born, and they don't use rather painless ways. Abortion here is not really sex-selective because of forbidding of prenatal tests, so it's people who genuinely are not ready to handle children.
     
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