Are Pokémon Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon what Pokémon Sun and Moon were meant/going to be?

[PkmnTrainerElio]

Are Pok?mon Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon what Pok?mon Sun and Moon were meant/going to be?

As the the title says, "are Pok?mon Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon what Pok?mon Sun and Moon were meant/going to be?".

We saw a lot of concept art (some being recently unveiled) for Sun and Moon and many things didn't make it into the games (Pok?mon on vehicles, some locations etc) and with the datamine a lot was found that never made it into the final games. These were probably scrapped due to time constraints and various other reasons. With the recent reveals (and leaks) for Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon it seems that some of them are what was scrapped, especially the recent leak (It wouldn't surprise me if that was to coincide with the 20th Anniversary, but was scrapped).

So, does anyone else think this?

 

[pkmin3033]

Well, yes, because this has been a thing since Yellow back in Gen I. Third versions and sequels are always exactly the same game with some additional elements that could easily have been added into the original title if they'd not rushed to get it out. Or these days, they could be patched into the existing game, or sold as DLC. The additional content in a third version or sequel is roughly equivalent to a good expansion pack, or a slightly altered story route in a game with multiple endings, on a console. I think maybe the sole exception to that with Pokemon was B2W2, where you had a sequel scenario instead of an altered one AND the additional content in the form the PWT, new areas, etc.

Where other companies would just patch these things in later, or release separate expansion packs/DLC scenarios for a reduced cost, Game Freak prefer to make even more money by charging full price for them and marketing them as a completely new experience. It's pretty obvious that for the complete, originally intended Gen VII experience, you need to buy USUM, just like for the complete Gen IV experience you needed to buy Platinum, for Gen III Emerald, and so on, and you would miss absolutely nothing by not playing SM, which amount to little better than watered-down beta tests.

You can cite time constraints and all manner of other things to excuse it, but it'd be naive to think that the desire to have enough content held back to sell the games a second time over doesn't play some part to it. Especially not when its been a thing for this long, and when you consider that no developer gives a damn about time constraints or player expectations. The number of "improving quality" delays you see in the industry now are horrendous; if GF had REALLY wanted to make sure SM were complete experiences, and the best they could be, they would have delayed them to fit these additional things in.

Maybe one or two things will make their way into USUM that weren't originally planned to be in SM, but I'd be very surprised if that outweighed the amount of content deliberately cut so they could justify selling the games to us a second time. Call it cynical, but...eh, whatever works really. I'm not sure it really matters when the games will sell millions irrespective of the scummy marketing strategies they utilise, and when everyone will give them the benefit of the doubt...and when those of us who don't will still buy the games anyway because we want to play the games as originally intended. As long as it sells, who cares, right?

 

[BlazingCobaltX]

That's some really cool art, thanks for sharing!

As for the question, I think no? Obviously a lot more things were intially intended to be in SM, but that's what all concept version are. During the process a selection gets made of which elements to include and exclude, possibly with a third version in mind. Possibly because it's never sure for what reasons certain concepts got cut from the final project. Obviously, some things were withheld from SM to make USUM significantly different and more interesting, and I don't really mind this because the newer version is supposed to improve on the original. Some other ideas were cut due to programming/hardware limitations and might not make their return in USUM (following Pok?mon).

But I think it's also part of any creative process: only after finishing the product, you suddenly see many ways to improve on things. GameFreak is just making use of this creative process. Since third versions are often a complete overhaul of the story and the region, it's 'too' much to be sold as a DLC, because it would 'remove' the old game entirely. Would you want to have had Platinum pasted onto DP, completely removing the unique characteristics of both games, as if they were works in progress? Both were 'final' versions during their own release. Because of this, I don't mind GF releasing third versions as completely different games.

The only unfortunate thing that made SM feel a bit incomplete is its lack of postgame, but I honestly think this was due to time constraint and not deliberate marketing. SM was obviously meant to be released during the 20th anniversary, but we see some of the 'rushed' decisions back in the game. I hope GF/Nintendo realized this, too, and take more time for future Pok?mon games. I hope one year was enough to make USUM into worthy successors.

 

[BrandoSheriff]

IMO, definitely not.

There were more things that were intended to be added according to the concept art and stuff, but designs change over time, and not everything thought of in concept will make it into the final product. Of course, some of this is due to time constraints and/or the limitations of the hardware itself. Sun and Moon were definitely finished games, and supposedly pushed the 3DS to its limit. This is why things we saw in datamines and such weren't in the final game, like the walking/running animations for all the Pokemon, which hinted at some sort of potential following mechanic.

From the very beginning, Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon were advertised as "an alternate take on the original Sun and Moon". While this is identical to games like Emerald and Platinum, the changes we've seen thus far are WAY more than that of those games. And this is why I heavily dislike when people say the content in 3rd versions "should just be DLC or something". The changes made to the story, region, and even the Pokemon availability are far too much to be "just DLC". Of course, after SM were done, they saw ways they could improve on certain aspects. These I'm sure made their way into USUM along with all the other alterations. This isn't something you can just patch in and be done with it, as this would eliminate the older game and everything it identified with. You can't just patch in an entirely new story while people are still going through the old one. And even after finishing the old one, how will you even play through the new one? SM were definitely finished. USUM is just taking what was good about those, and making those better while adding more. A LOT more, including some things that may not have made it into SM for reasons. Kinda like Mario Galaxy and Galaxy 2. I don't mind buying 3rd versions because of this. The changes justify the purchase for me.

So honestly, I don't see USUM as some sort of "SM Definitive Edition" or something. They're definitely their own thing (especially if the story is to be concerned), and in addition to all the new content, seem to fix many of the issues SM had such as lack of postgame and move tutors. Of course, the games aren't out yet, so I can't say for sure about those, but I hope they live up to everyone's (non-outlandish lol) expectations.

 

[moon]

I'm agreeing with Meyneth here. I have a hard time believing they don't - at least partly - do this on purpose to make more money. It's very convenient, and a well proven strategy from the past.

 

[PoCitMonster]

No, a different team has most likely been working on this while SM was being worked on. Some of the things like the start being quicker is probably because of fans complaining.

 

[blue]

These definitely seem like more than just third games from what we've seen of the trailers and screenshots. Without looking at the spoilers, I'm already content with the extra that these games add and undoubtedly there's still a lot more we don't know about. Bottom line is they're a step up from the traditional follow-up games we've been used to over the years and it seems as though USUM add the most additional content/features than any other of the previous follow-up titles. A great way to finish the 3DS era of Pok?mon with a bang.