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Chit-Chat: Back to the Grind(stone)

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I am playing Goldeneye 007 DS, the Movie licensed game, then again, the N64 game was already a Movie licensed game to begin with.

Anyway, HOLY S**T HOW DO YOU PEOPLE ACTUALLY PLAY A FIRST PERSON SHOOTER ON A HANDHELD! OH MY GOD. I FEEL LIKE... I WANT TO SAY ITS A-MEI-ZIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNNNNG but at the same time WHY AM I DOING THIS? And yes I am using the stylus to aim. God bless the 3DS' backwards capability.

HELP ME! HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELPPPPPPPPPPPP

This is the first and one of the few times I am playing on the EASY difficulty setting. Mainly since this is my first time experience playing a first person shooter on a handheld. So yeah.
 
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Satoshi Ookami said:
Interesting view. But if that's the case, it's pretty much not localization but re-styling the game.

Why so much hate for Asami?

Because that's what Japanese want :P
It's about moe console wars :D
It is supposed to be generic moe blob =D Though, popularity in west made it bigger.

Because you forgot Kana Hanazawa :P
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Yeah, that's why I say it's a bad localization since it's nothing like the original, but we did end up getting a superior product. It's still the same moe console wars like the Japanese, except the localization makes it seem a bit self-aware. I hate Asami's tsundere voice, especially the Stein;s Gate tsundere voice, probably wouldn't hate her if she spoke like a normal human being. And I don't like KanaHana, sounds like a cheap Noto Mamiko, though I did like her performance in Prison School.
 
Oh, I don't know...FPS titles could work very well on the 3DS if they were given proper controls. I used to think FPS titles needed dual analogue to work properly, but then I played Metroid Prime. Single analogue FPS is perfectly viable as long as you have a manual aiming mode, it turns out.

Metroid Prime Hunters on the DS was definitely a unique experience too; it was a bit awkward, but then this was very early in the DS' life cycle, and Nintendo have had a long time to perfect the control systems since then...a very long time, in fact. With a single control stick it'd be much easier to move about, and using the touch screen to aim precisely isn't as bad as it sounds...now, tapping it to fire, that is precisely as bad as it sounds. Nintendo's problem is that they have an aversion to buttons when they're promoting new ways to play, which is pure stupidity in my opinion.

I would love to see a Metroid Prime title on the 3DS...with dual analogue support on the N3DS, just because. Never underestimate the power of handhelds.
 
Yeah, not too big a fan of the nub. Mine's semi-broken, which is surprising considering I barely used it. Only games that supported it that I played were Monster Hunter 3 and...that's it. And the lack of physical feedback isn't particularly ideal, either.

But yeah, I certainly think FPS could work on the 3/DS, if only because of Metroid Prime and, though it's not an FPS, Kid Icarus Uprising. Great game, BTW. Seems the earliest 3DS games really get the shaft- it wasn't a good time for the system- but Uprising is definitely one of it's better offerings. And a solid proof of concept in regards to the topic at hand.
 
Satoshi Ookami said:

Because that's what Japanese want :P
It's about moe console wars :D
It is supposed to be generic moe blob =D Though, popularity in west made it bigger.
Click to expand...
This tells me that a) Japan in general has poor taste and b) the West made a shitty game better.

For reals, moe was one of three things that really killed my interest in consuming Japanese media, the other being sub-purists and weeaboos.
 
Well, I'm glad I'm not the only person who thinks the N3DSs analogue nub is a piece of crap. Seriously, I had an easier time using the PSP's! I mean, it IS highly responsive, but it's resistant to physical movement, far too small, and you can't really get any grip on it meaning you're not really getting any feedback in regards to how hard or how far you need to push it. It's really put me off the handheld Monster Hunter titles because of it, because those games really need dual analogue for me to play them proficiently...I don't think my hand has recovered from the claw from Freedom Unite on the PSP yet. Gods.

But yeah, a Prime title on the 3DS would be perfectly viable - circle pad to move about, hold L to lock onto a target and aim, use the touch screen and/or R to enter manual aiming mode. It worked on the Gamecube, it worked on the DS. There's no reason a 3DS title wouldn't be equally amazing. Touch screen aiming actually complements FPS games perfectly, as it allows for equally precise aiming as dual analogue does. It's intuitive, it's simple, it's a proper way to utilise the touch screen. So why why WHY do Nintendo not get this?! I despair sometimes. The 3DS is doing brilliantly, but a little more variety never hurt anyone...and considering the generally negative feelings surrounding Federation Force, a proper Metroid title wouldn't go amiss.

But yeah. I'd play an FPS on a handheld if the controls were handled right...and it wasn't a war-based shooter. Kinda bored of those, honestly. I might give the new Call of Duty or Battlefield a try somewhen because it's been years - at least a decade - since I played a FPS that wasn't Wolfenstein, but I can't say I'm hugely interested. I'd rather play a non-realistic FPS like Doom or something.
 
The funny thing about war shooters is that I never got into them. I remember being excited the year I got Call of Duty as a birthday gift when I was about 12 or 13 or so, and then actually playing it and getting bored with it. I think I actually decided to exchange it at Gamestop because of how much I didn't care for it. Same goes for Battlefield when I eventually tried it, I never cared for it. I just can't get into military shooters.
 
I loved the original Medal of Honour, and Wolfenstein 3D was fun as well, but apart from that...it's not really a genre I've ever really been into either. I think the appeal in them nowadays lies primarily in their multiplayer base - let's face it, they're not known for in-depth campaigns or pinpoint historical accuracy for the most part - and, as I've never been a huge PvP fan...no appeal whatsoever. Especially these days with PS+ and XboxLive requiring subscriptions.

I'll shell out for PS+ when and only when they start giving away good free titles that I've not played...
 
It's very difficult for me to get into most shooters, especially military/war shooters. About the only multiplayer-focused shooter I've managed to get into so far was Splatoon... Speaking of which, the alleged last "Splatfest" will be next month, probably meaning no more weapon/gear updates either. :why:
I hope Nintendo makes a sequel even better than the first.
 
If an FPS is fun to move around in, it'll catch my attention. Titanfall did this particularly well, making mobility one of its main focuses and somehow making playing in a mech the less attractive option- to the point that I never did.

Arena shooters do this as well. Games like Doom and, the one I hold closest to my heart, Unreal Tournament, totally have me for their fast-paced and floaty gameplay. I was a big fan of Halo, since it had a composer who did a damn fine job of jumping back and forth between earworm and atmospheric and its levels, prior to 4, managed to be pretty open and generally fun (something that the original did best and holds #1 in my heart area for).

And there are others. Had fun with Paladins earlier this year, Battleborn's pretty fun, Lawbreakers is looking pretty solid- so as long as the gameplay stands out in some way I'll give it my attention. Something like Battlefield, Call of Duty, or debatebly CS/GO I only need one of and I'm good until the community completely dies- which is pretty rare.

And yeah, PS+ this past year's been pretty lackluster. It's something when Xbox's freebie service is outdoing theirs. Now, at least. 3/4 years ago I got some pretty solid titles, especially on the Vita in its early days. Gravity Rush, VLR, Disgaea 3...ah, good times.
 
I'm currently watching Jappo play Shadow Warriors. I originally don't favor FPS games. Although I do like First Person and in most cases murder, I'm actually not very fond of shooter games that are.. Well, based on being a shooter I suppose? Although.. yeah. Shadow Warriors looks really cool. It looks like something I could play, because murdering demons in gruesome ways and cool ways and a katana and special powers and stuff. Also The Darkness II. Played that like a year or two ago, enjoyed it because.. Murder. And supernatural stuff, more demons as well, and stuff. And killing, and blood (please stop I'm not Xin btw). I suppose my exception is CS:GO, although I haven't been playing that any time recently. I did play it, but even then it wasn't for the shooter part and it felt less like a shooter than a game like Call of Duty. Played it solely for strategy/tactic, playing with 5 people premade.
 
Lize said:
I'm currently watching Jappo play Shadow Warriors. I originally don't favor FPS games. Although I do like First Person and in most cases murder, I'm actually not very fond of shooter games that are.. Well, based on being a shooter I suppose? Although.. yeah. Shadow Warriors looks really cool. It looks like something I could play, because murdering demons in gruesome ways and cool ways and a katana and special powers and stuff. Also The Darkness II. Played that like a year or two ago, enjoyed it because.. Murder. And supernatural stuff, more demons as well, and stuff. And killing, and blood (please stop I'm not Xin btw). I suppose my exception is CS:GO, although I haven't been playing that any time recently. I did play it, but even then it wasn't for the shooter part and it felt less like a shooter than a game like Call of Duty. Played it solely for strategy/tactic, playing with 5 people premade.
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Well the big difference here is that Shadow Warrior is an Action game, not so much an FPS. It is First Person, yeah, but I'd call that about as much of an FPS as Deus Ex, Mirror's Edge, or Thief- which aren't FPS (though I imagine someone would make a case for the former). In that case they generally ride well on their own merits, and I'd say that it's pretty likely, if you wanted murder, you'd be just as fine with something not First Person, such as Metal Gear Revengeance. You'd like Revengeance. Shadow Warrior's very campy action with a fair amount of weapon variety, and The Darkness was pretty unique in what it aimed to do as well. But I doubt you'd be interested in something like Hatred, which is just brutal killing for brutal killing's sake without the camp of something like Doom (anyone have any gum?)

Play Dishonored. You'd like Dishonored.
 
There is a surprising amount of variety to FPS these days, it's just the well-established series that get the most attention...but then, the same could be said of all genres of games. You can blame the media for that...it's like a cancer on the industry.

That's actually one thing about the industry today that I love, though: the variety. Unless you have a fundamental aversion to the gameplay in some way, you can probably find a game of any and every genre that will appeal to you if you look hard enough. After years of ignoring FPS titles, I stumbled across Borderlands and I loved it to pieces. I hate puzzle games, but I actually quite enjoyed Puzzles and Dragons, and I sank a terrifying number of hours into Pokemon Link Battle. I never showed an interest in rhythm titles because I didn't like the setup...until Theatrhythm Final Fantasy turned up, and then the Miku titles got localised. Plus there was Rhythm Thief.

I could go on. But presentation goes hand-in-hand with variety, and there is a lot that is appealing these days...and the fact that the genre system is outdated and largely irrelevant now (I swear to god I'll make a topic about that soon) makes it that much more interesting, too.

Whilst the AAA market - and Nintendo, I would argue - is stagnating in the worst way imaginable, smaller third-party developers are going above and beyond by creating experience that, whilst they're not original, are definitely unique. It's just a matter of finding the damn things.

...oh, and two thumbs way, waaaaay up for Dishonored. That was a welcome breath of fresh air that reminded me a lot of BioShock, only with a greater emphasis on stealth...if you wanted it to be, anyway. The second game is going to be equally fantastic, I hope. Just give me my playable Emily Caldwin all grown up and let me loose.
 
Yeah, I actually had Dishonored on my wishlist. I removed it since my thinking thing about what games I was looking actually forward to, which technically was Dark Souls III only, but.. Yeah, I've already linked one of the songs before in the video game music rate thread, and I've seen quite a bit of it. Also kind of fits my idea of the stealth stuff that I seem to like. Hell, just maybe someday I'll try Assassin's Creed. Although that's pretty unlikely.

Yeah I see what you're getting at. Also considering I wouldn't shoot much in Shadow Warriors if I'd play it I suppose, since I'll probably end up running around with just the Katana. The Darkness II was definitely a shooter, though. I have heard of Hatred, haven't looked much of it.. Maybe I should after hearing a bit about it, but maybe you're right that I wouldn't really play it. On the other hand, been playing the first 3 chapters of Spec Ops: The Line recently. It seems to be pretty solid. Also an actual war shooter. Generally what put me off at first, but.. I mean.. I guess you'd know why I'd play it. The story and all, the game making you question your morality, it's.. Well, I kinda feel like I want to experience that. It sounds like a pretty good experience.
 
Yeah, Spec Ops certainly isn't known for its gameplay. From what I know, it's very light and inaccurate- I have it installed, though. Been planning on playing it for a while thanks to it's mindfuck of a story that I learned about thanks to TV Tropes (which straight up told the ending- I've since forgotten, so it's just motivation, at this point). You like story, so you'll enjoy it going forward. I'm at least aware that it's gameplay isn't so bad that it wholly detracts from the story it's trying to tell (and in some cases, it works in conjunction with its themes quite well.

Assassin's Creed is...always cheap, if you want to take the jump. If it'd ever thought of a way to overcome its repetition, I might be more keen to actually finish one of the games. The only one I've ever beaten was the original, and that was because it was all so new at the time and the game's structure and design was so odd (even compared to its later entries) that it was a particularly standout rump. But yeah, I don't personally recommend it, but it must have reason for standing this long and people actually finishing the games.

As far as the variety goes, I agree. I think about that quite often, actually, and that goes wonderfully with that genre thread we never made! In particular, though, the FPS genre's going to be going through some changes what with the sudden Hero Shooter boom and the return to form we're seeing with Battlefield, as well as the backlash against Call of Duty that Jim Sterling explains better than I ever could. It will have to change, because its foundation's been shaken. Following the AAA lead means a little more than just making a Military shooter and calling it a day, and what with the rather popular big names these past two years having been Wolfenstein, Overwatch, and DOOM- well, it'll be interesting to see where the FPS goes from here.

Also, really, REALLY tempted to buy you Huniepop now, Mel.
 
I'll make it tomorrow, I promise. I've actually written it all up, I was just saving it for...things >.>

The thing is there is still a huge, HUGE market for military shooters, and if the popularity of Call of Duty - hell, if the prevalence of series of games as a whole - has shown anything, it's that change does not necessarily have to occur in any significant way, immediately, or even at all, for these things to sell millions. Any fan will be able to tell you the minutia of the differences between one title in a series and the next, but the core gameplay remains the same throughout; the systems and the ideas all remain the same. It's just got a new coat of paint; it's a question of style, rather than substance. I'm generalising, of course, but radical changes tend to be regarded as either the black sheep or a one-off revolution that just can't be compared to the original formula, and in most cases the original remains supreme.

...but then, it's because these series hold such a large percentage of the market in thrall that smaller developers have to go out of their way to make their titles unique, rather than just "clones" of these bigger titles. So, it's a bit of give and take. They're simultaneously fantastic for the industry, yet they're causing it to stagnate something awful. As someone who plays mostly niche titles and rarely plays AAA games - I still have Assassin's Creed Liberation and the Nathan Drake Collection unplayed upstairs, amongst others - I'd say the positive outweighs the negative...for once. The wonderful thing is that nobody is forcing me to buy, play, or even pay attention to these titles. Let them get on with it, I say. I'll take my money somewhere else!

No. Bad macho. No more games - you've seen my backlog >.>
 
CarcharOdin said:
This tells me that a) Japan in general has poor taste and b) the West made a ****ty game better.

For reals, moe was one of three things that really killed my interest in consuming Japanese media, the other being sub-purists and weeaboos.
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It really sounds racists when we generalize them this way, but sometimes it really feels like Japan always has the worst taste when it comes to their products. And I'm not talking about cultural things, but just how popular these generic stories are just because they can self-insert and "date" 2D girls. And it's not only killing JRPG with waifu JRPGs (that usually get dubbed weeb games), but even anime in general suffers from that with the entire Light Novel craze. It's like they adapt 20 of these Light Novels yearly, and at best only one isn't a generic copy paste story about a guy who has a harem.

Spec Ops related, I never understood the complains about the gameplay itself. It's completely generic, but it's far from BAD gameplay. I thought that the atmosphere and level designs were good enough to make that generic gameplay enjoyable and fun. Even has Deep Purple in a memorable level. But yeah, it's the story that's the main selling point. People usually complain about lack of choice so they don't feel the weight of their actions, but I thought it was more about Walker's character than you as the play self inserting into a character. I didn't feel like there were forced situation where you obviously did bad things, as it was always the only way of pushing forward. It's a short game and it's cheap, so even if you end up hating it, it wasn't a waste of time or money if you get it on a sale or used.
 
ZetaZaku said:
It really sounds racists when we generalize them this way, but sometimes it really feels like Japan always has the worst taste when it comes to their products. And I'm not talking about cultural things, but just how popular these generic stories are just because they can self-insert and "date" 2D girls. And it's not only killing JRPG with waifu JRPGs (that usually get dubbed weeb games), but even anime in general suffers from that with the entire Light Novel craze. It's like they adapt 20 of these Light Novels yearly, and at best only one isn't a generic copy paste story about a guy who has a harem.
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I'd say most of it comes from a wonderful cycle of pandering to otaku- it certainly isn't a Japanese thing in general. I dare say a fair number of disinterested Japanese parties are about as likely to turn their nose up at something hyper moe as a Westerner.

But the otaku are the whales, and they're ultimately the ones who decide where the market will go and what it will look like. Never mind that something that isn't moe is generally eaten up
by the masses. Moe sells and it sells well, so it's pretty easy for companies to make and design content for the whales, giving them more and more of the same without them ever really asking for more (and change is usually abhored by this bunch anyway). It's...pretty gross. And honestly I think otaku culture is disgusting because it's right in the palm of company hands and can be shaped and molded any way they want. The pandering's gross as hell and that it works so well and is even desired is...well.

I'd love to see things change going forward. It isn't good for the game industry, and it's just as bad for neighboring ones. I don't mind a little pandering, but today it seems like the culture lives and breathes it.
 
machomuu said:
I'd say most of it comes from a wonderful cycle of pandering to otaku- it certainly isn't a Japanese thing in general. I dare say a fair number of disinterested Japanese parties are about as likely to turn their nose up at something hyper moe as a Westerner.

But the otaku are the whales, and they're ultimately the ones who decide where the market will go and what it will look like. Never mind that something that isn't moe is generally eaten up
by the masses. Moe sells and it sells well, so it's pretty easy for companies to make and design content for the whales, giving them more and more of the same without them ever really asking for more (and change is usually abhored by this bunch anyway). It's...pretty gross. And honestly I think otaku culture is disgusting because it's right in the palm of company hands and can be shaped and molded any way they want. The pandering's gross as hell and that it works so well and is even desired is...well.

I'd love to see things change going forward. It isn't good for the game industry, and it's just as bad for neighboring ones. I don't mind a little pandering, but today it seems like the culture lives and breathes it.
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As long as they pander to them, the creative freedom will be zero, since those people can get really insane about some things like "purity" of female characters and female voice actors/idols. One of the recent drama relating them was the whole Tales of Zestria case where they got mad because a female character leaves the party. And that character wasn't even particularly a good one, she was really bland from her very first scene. But the mere thought of them losing a "waifu" was so terrible apparently. Though that's something mild, as the same people know to even harass voice actresses because they have boyfriends (industry in general is to blame here).

I don't think that this will ever change though, but at least some high profile JRPGs might be safe from that, like Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy. It's kind of amusing how back in the day we had lots of generic fantasy JRPGs, and now it just evolved into generic fantasy JRPGs with waifus, or just high school JRPGs with waifus. There are always exceptions when it's handled well and not entirely made for pandering, like Fire Emblem Awakening. Persona 3-4 seems like they are waifu simulators, but at least compared to most waifu JRPGs, those have interesting characters and not tropes. That's probably the worst part of these waifu JRPGs, since the main male character is always a self-insert empty shell, while the girls cover various tropes by only being allowed to have one character trait. No complex personalities allowed, she's either shy or a tsundere or whatever.
 
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