Buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo.

Kura

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    Buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo.
    That is, bison from Buffalo intimidate (other) bison from Buffalo that bison from Buffalo intimidate.

    and another example:

    "James while John had had had had had had had had had had had a better effect on the teacher" is an English sentence used to demonstrate lexical ambiguity and the necessity of punctuation,[1] which serves as a substitute for the intonation,[2] stress and pauses found in human speech.[3] In human information processing research, the sentence has been used to show how readers depend on punctuation to give sentences meaning, especially in the context of scanning across lines of text.[4]
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    What are your views on the English language? Do you believe that it is essentially the hardest language to learn? Is it because, unlike Mandarin, an equally "difficult" language, it has too many exceptions and lingual ambiguity?
    Do you believe that English will ever become a Universal language? What are your thoughts?


    Also.. for people who want a bit more of an in-depth explanation for the title of this thread:
    Spoiler:
     
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    Well, I think that only languages like Chinese have any edge over English when it comes to sheer number of speakers because China is huge. Of course, they're just too darn interested in their own country to push Mandarin Chinese as a universal language.

    Personally, I think that English will in fact become a universal language. Look at it already, most developed nations do in fact require students to have at least a basic grasp of the language to get by last time I checked. That alone just goes to show that English has staying power despite it's flaws.

    I really don't think that it's flaws are ever going to get it toppled off the position it's in now, simply because learning languages is a royal pain in the tush...unless you happen to be 5 or 6. People will not dump a language over trivialities such as that unless someone invents a language that can be learned in a week, mastered in a month, and is fairly easy to become fluent in within a few months.

    Now I don't know of any such language to exist...mostly because it'd take a bright linguist to come up with one, people would have to accept that language without pushing changes onto it, and speak it accurately, which for an easy language, shouldn't be hard to do, but honestly...why should we throw out English?

    If all of the peculiarities of the English language is the problem, we could theoretically sit down, simplify the language and branch it off. Call it Simplified English, and that could be a really easy language to learn. Because at it's core English isn't hard...it's just all the borrow words we have and the exceptions that come with them which make it complicated. XD
     
    Well, I think that only languages like Chinese have any edge over English when it comes to sheer number of speakers because China is huge. Of course, they're just too darn interested in their own country to push Mandarin Chinese as a universal language.

    Personally, I think that English will in fact become a universal language. Look at it already, most developed nations do in fact require students to have at least a basic grasp of the language to get by last time I checked. That alone just goes to show that English has staying power despite it's flaws.

    I really don't think that it's flaws are ever going to get it toppled off the position it's in now, simply because learning languages is a royal pain in the tush...unless you happen to be 5 or 6. People will not dump a language over trivialities such as that unless someone invents a language that can be learned in a week, mastered in a month, and is fairly easy to become fluent in within a few months.

    Now I don't know of any such language to exist...mostly because it'd take a bright linguist to come up with one, people would have to accept that language without pushing changes onto it, and speak it accurately, which for an easy language, shouldn't be hard to do, but honestly...why should we throw out English?

    If all of the peculiarities of the English language is the problem, we could theoretically sit down, simplify the language and branch it off. Call it Simplified English, and that could be a really easy language to learn. Because at it's core English isn't hard...it's just all the borrow words we have and the exceptions that come with them which make it complicated. XD

    And yet we've complicated the language. You do know that "Bootylicious" is in the dictionary now, right? (as an informal adjective meaning sexually attractive)

    In our language, "thee" used to be the common form of "you (singular)" and "thy" meant "your (singular.)"
    When you think about it, we've "simplified it" yet have complicated it in terms of communication. If I say "You ate dinner with us" it could mean one person or it could mean a bunch of people.

    Language like French and Italian have this distinguished even in their verbs! That's why it is so easy for someone who is French to use Italian. Do you truly think that English could become universally acceptable even though there are so many other more EFFICIENT languages out there in the ways of communication and CLARITY?
    The only thing English has going for it is that it's in an industrialized part of the world. English means power. But it's not the most widely used language. Heck Chinese is being implemented into all the bank machines over here in Toronto. If anything, English might be fading!

    When it comes to asian countries.. it's not so much that they're involved with themselves as it is that their SYNTAX is very different from other languages. Take Japanese, for example. The verb is always at the end of the sentence. Always distinguished. In English, you can say "had had had had" etc.. and it would technically make sense.. but what does that mean in terms of communication?

    We can't simplify English. All we can do is find the appropriate wording to structure what we want to say properly so that we are not misinterpreted.
     
    English isn't the most difficult language to learn, IMO. The difficulty of learning English depends on the country you're living in (for instance, if you were born in an English-speaking country, it's easier to learn there because English is the primary language; if you were born in a country like China, learning English isn't that easy because it isn't the primary language).
     
    The Lion-Eating Poet would like a word with you, OP.
     
    English conjugation and lexicon in general is ridiculous, stupid, and feels of a language that should have died out. A long time ago. But that's what makes English awesome~ and makes other languages so much easier to learn haha. The important thing in English grammar is not to remember the rules, but the exceptions, haha. English vocabulary is just pure experience.

    Anyway, in my opinion, there are only two really hard languages to learn; English to learn fluently (because of the aforementioned massive number of exceptions and alternate meanings in spelling and vocabulary, the overt necessity of punctuation and terrible conjugation in verbs), whereas Traditional Chinese is the hardest to learn to write, because of the sheer number of (really hard to learn because it's trad and it's silly and actually almost dead like english should be) characters.

    you know there's a real problem with a language when native speakers, born speaking that language, can't remember how to write/say/read something... and it happens often. particularly when compared to other languages, English really stands out as being noticeably terrible.
     
    Being the stickler for grammar that I am, I never found English to be difficult, except for some spellings that still confuse me. However, having taken Spanish in high school, I have to agree that it's comparatively simple to get a grasp of the rules because there's far fewer exceptions you have to worry about.
     
    And yet we've complicated the language. You do know that "Bootylicious" is in the dictionary now, right? (as an informal adjective meaning sexually attractive)

    In our language, "thee" used to be the common form of "you (singular)" and "thy" meant "your (singular.)"
    When you think about it, we've "simplified it" yet have complicated it in terms of communication. If I say "You ate dinner with us" it could mean one person or it could mean a bunch of people.

    Language like French and Italian have this distinguished even in their verbs! That's why it is so easy for someone who is French to use Italian. Do you truly think that English could become universally acceptable even though there are so many other more EFFICIENT languages out there in the ways of communication and CLARITY?
    The only thing English has going for it is that it's in an industrialized part of the world. English means power. But it's not the most widely used language. Heck Chinese is being implemented into all the bank machines over here in Toronto. If anything, English might be fading!

    When it comes to asian countries.. it's not so much that they're involved with themselves as it is that their SYNTAX is very different from other languages. Take Japanese, for example. The verb is always at the end of the sentence. Always distinguished. In English, you can say "had had had had" etc.. and it would technically make sense.. but what does that mean in terms of communication?

    We can't simplify English. All we can do is find the appropriate wording to structure what we want to say properly so that we are not misinterpreted.

    English conjugation and lexicon in general is ridiculous, stupid, and feels of a language that should have died out. A long time ago. But that's what makes English awesome~ and makes other languages so much easier to learn haha. The important thing in English grammar is not to remember the rules, but the exceptions, haha. English vocabulary is just pure experience.

    Anyway, in my opinion, there are only two really hard languages to learn; English to learn fluently (because of the aforementioned massive number of exceptions and alternate meanings in spelling and vocabulary, the overt necessity of punctuation and terrible conjugation in verbs), whereas Traditional Chinese is the hardest to learn to write, because of the sheer number of (really hard to learn because it's trad and it's silly and actually almost dead like english should be) characters.

    you know there's a real problem with a language when native speakers, born speaking that language, can't remember how to write/say/read something... and it happens often. particularly when compared to other languages, English really stands out as being noticeably terrible.

    I initially overlooked these posts.

    I would like to mention to everyone that English is such an overestimated language in terms of complexity. Yes, English often carries ambiguity to a greater degree than other languages, like Spanish, but that's just a reflection of how simplified it has become.

    Firstly, "you" and "you (pl.)" is not an explanation of how hard the language would be to learn. In almost every Romantic language, 'you' (pl.) forms are almost always irregular and greatly ignored in teaching. The ambiguity in
    "you" and "you (pl.)" is almost never evident anyway, if you spoke in proper context. In fact, most Romantic languages RELY on context in the first place. English only does so for clarity, but others use it for meaning. Either way, "you all" is a perfectly acceptable substitution for "you (pl.)," and "you (pl.)" is technically a colloquialism. Therefore, the technical plural 2nd person in English should be "you all," just like how we translate "vosotros," and "umeis."

    English syntax is very simple. You can break down sentences very easily. The rules that apply serve to destroy ambiguity, whereas other languages are noted to not have ANY specific word order. In Greek, you can say "the house the beautiful" and it means "the house is beautiful." You can also say "the the beautiful" and depending on whether "the" is masculine, feminine, or neuter, it means a different thing. The reason why "I throw the baby out the window some food" sounds weird is because the prepositional phrase is out of place (it should read "I throw the baby some food out the window"). However, other languages can speak this very same sentence and you're supposed to interpret it the same way as English, only they can say "I out the window throw some food the baby" and you're STILL supposed to make sense of it.

    On "had had had had," those words are obviously not meant to be spoken in a normal fashion, having more efficient means of saying what you mean. The sentence is the polar opposite of euphonic.

    Regarding English "conjugation," the only words we really conjugate are "to be." If you think about Spanish, they have a much more sophisticated conjugation system, with present, present progressive, conditional, perfect, pluperfect, future, simple future, future perfect, imperfect, preterite, imperative, infinitive, subjunctive tenses with RULES (both IDIOMATIC and otherwise) for which tense to use. Our future tense is very easy, composed of "will ___" and our perfect tense is "has / had ____." English has a progressive tense so we can clarify between ongoing actions and present actions... And all you need to do to form participles is add -ed or -ing to the verb at hand. What English has two participles for, other languages often run four to six. Still, be grateful we don't still decline nouns and adjectives.

    English superlatives are just a combination of "most" and an adjective, unlike other languages where you add a suffix to the end.

    The English vocabulary is actually also very simple. Most of the words draw from Proto-Germanic and the other half from Romantic.

    - - - - -

    tl;dr? English is easy compared to other languages.
     
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    And yet we've complicated the language. You do know that "Bootylicious" is in the dictionary now, right? (as an informal adjective meaning sexually attractive)

    It's not my fault there aren't enough good enough words in the English dictionary to describe me. I just had to sneak a few in to compensate for it. -.-

    "The rat the cat the dog bit chased escaped" is a nice sentence.

    Couldn't understand a word. So, English your first language or...?
     
    Couldn't understand a word. So, English your first language or...?

    The rat [the cat (the dog bit) chased] escaped.

    Get it now? If you say it separately (ie. with proper punctuation) then it's quite easy to understand.

    also no it's not lol. Well, it's close enough to, but not quite.
     
    Couldn't understand a word. So, English your first language or...?
    The rat [the cat (the dog bit) chased] escaped.

    Get it now? If you say it separately (ie. with proper punctuation) then it's quite easy to understand.
    What Ninja Caterpie wrote; "the rat, that chased the cat that the dog bit, escaped" is another way to put it.
    Also, nope, Swedish is my native language. :P
     
    Well, I think that only languages like Chinese have any edge over English when it comes to sheer number of speakers because China is huge. Of course, they're just too darn interested in their own country to push Mandarin Chinese as a universal language.

    That's not why. Mandarin Chinese is spoken almost entirely in East Asia and shares its horribly complicated alphabet only with other Chinese languages/dialects. English, on the other hand, is a lingua franca, the majority language of countries in all 6 inhabited continents, and a descendant of Greek/Latin/German/French/etc., giving it nearly the same alphabet as Spanish, French, German, Italian, Dutch, and Romanian, all estimated to be within the top 50 of the most widely spoken languages around the world.

    You are right that English would in fact be the preferred universal language, though. The amount of global effort it would take for everyone to begin speaking English would be much less than if everyone were to learn Mandarin. Spanish would be a viable option, too, but given English's dominating control of international business and trade, the obvious option should be English.
     
    English is definitely one of the far more complicated languages out there. Only could we make "phlegm" rhyme with "lem".

    Ever seen the word ghoti?
    It's fish spelt with the "gh" in laugh, the "o" in women and the"ti" in any -tion word.


    As for will it become universal, most linguists seem to think so in the form of Panglish.
    Mainly due to the fact that more people speak english than any other language (if you include non-native speakers) and most of them speak it badly.
    Apparently ordering "Oreg Tzu" in a bar in Singapore will easily get you some Orange Juice. Oh and a Radio is a "Lalio".
     
    Apparently ordering "Oreg Tzu" in a bar in Singapore will easily get you some Orange Juice. Oh and a Radio is a "Lalio".
    Ummm no. That's not official English, rather it's Singlish, an English-Based Creole Language which is the colloquial form used in Singapore. You make it sound like everyone in Singapore talks like that. I know you might not have meant it that way, but that's how it sounds to me.

    How do I know this?

    I also speak Manglish, the English-Based Creole Language spoken in Malaysia. A colloquial form of English similar to Singlish. Manglish and Singlish are similar save for a few aspects.

    To clarify, while some might speak that way, it's not how everybody speaks.

    Slight NSFW
    A funny Singlish example.

    Onto the subject matter of the thread. I personally think that everyone should just learn Lobjan and be done with all the silly ambiguities of English.
     
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