Community Hack [Discussion]

[karatekid552]

I agree with that, though I think that we're still in the position where we're asking "Should we make a community hack?" rather than "What should we include in this hack?".

While I can see that there are a few very supportive members in this thread I would say that only 6-7 actually have said they would like to help/ will eventually join if there are enough people working on it. I would actually like to see how many members have been reading this thread and just not said anything thus far. If anything is to happen it would need the broader support of the community and right now only a handful of people have raised a positive opinion/ outlook on all of this. Even if we had 5 people saying "Yes, I will work on this" and 20 others saying "I will join if other people join" then that would lend some gravitas to actually getting up and doing something about it. We haven't hit the point where there is a sizable chunk of the community is at least thinking about getting involved.

So, I guess the first thing to do is make a roster. I'm deffinately in!

 

[Blah]

I agree with that, though I think that we're still in the position where we're asking "Should we make a community hack?" rather than "What should we include in this hack?".

While I can see that there are a few very supportive members in this thread I would say that only 6-7 actually have said they would like to help/ will eventually join if there are enough people working on it. I would actually like to see how many members have been reading this thread and just not said anything thus far. If anything is to happen it would need the broader support of the community and right now only a handful of people have raised a positive opinion/ outlook on all of this. Even if we had 5 people saying "Yes, I will work on this" and 20 others saying "I will join if other people join" then that would lend some gravitas to actually getting up and doing something about it. We haven't hit the point where there is a sizable chunk of the community is at least thinking about getting involved.

I agree, it's not much of a community hack if only few people are part of it. There are definitely people who are lurking around not really throwing in their opinions.

It's up to you to make a poll then good moderator sir. Something like:

Are you interested in working on a community hack?

1) No, it will undoubtedly fail/ I'm just not interested

2) Yes, I would love to join

3) I will join if we have enough people working and people show interest

 

[machomuu]

I agree with that, though I think that we're still in the position where we're asking "Should we make a community hack?" rather than "What should we include in this hack?".

While I can see that there are a few very supportive members in this thread I would say that only 6-7 actually have said they would like to help/ will eventually join if there are enough people working on it. I would actually like to see how many members have been reading this thread and just not said anything thus far. If anything is to happen it would need the broader support of the community and right now only a handful of people have raised a positive opinion/ outlook on all of this. Even if we had 5 people saying "Yes, I will work on this" and 20 others saying "I will join if other people join" then that would lend some gravitas to actually getting up and doing something about it. We haven't hit the point where there is a sizable chunk of the community is at least thinking about getting involved.

Well, I think that the lack of support really falls to the fact that this thread is in the ROM Hacking section which, compared to the Progressing Hacks, Hacks Showcase, and Slideshow Showcase, is not visited by that many people (frequently, at least). I mean, back in the day, when the Scrapbox, the Hack Showcase, and the Progressing Hacks were connected to the Rom Hacking section I could see this getting more exposure (since people had more incentive to come to the Rom Hacking parent directory).

In other words, I really think the reason that this isn't getting much exposure is because people don't see it, or if they do see it, they don't feel any need to take a look. It doesn't have the exposure it needs to be noticed.

 

[hinkage]

I think a lot of people are gonna be interested, just maybe not the best ones for the job. There should be a quota or something; MewtwoLover39482 shouldn't be let in just because he wants to be.

 

[karatekid552]

I think a lot of people are gonna be interested, just maybe not the best ones for the job. There should be a quota or something; MewtwoLover39482 shouldn't be let in just because he wants to be.

Makes sense, they would at least need some knowledge. What about a simple test for the job they are applying for? Maybe they should have to proove they know mapping by sending in a map, or for scripters, making a script to talk to a person 5 times and on the fith time, he gives a cool item? Just something simple to make sure they know the basics. Not too hard or it won't be a community anymore.

 

[machomuu]

Makes sense, they would at least need some knowledge. What about a simple test for the job they are applying for? Maybe they should have to proove they know mapping by sending in a map, or for scripters, making a script to talk to a person 5 times and on the fith time, he gives a cool item? Just something simple to make sure they know the basics. Not too hard or it won't be a community anymore.

That seems like it'd work, but maybe instead of it being something simple and specific, it could be something open-ended; that way we can better gauge the hackers' ability and creativity based on how complex and or creative the map, script, sprite, or the like is and give them a position on the team accordingly.

 

[Darthatron]

I agree with that, though I think that we're still in the position where we're asking "Should we make a community hack?" rather than "What should we include in this hack?".

I think you can't answer one question without at least considering the other.

Do we want to remake an official game?
Do we want a completely original story?
Do we want to use an official region?
Do we want to create a new region?
Do we want to add fakemon?
Do we want to have cameos from the series?
Do we want to have a custom pokedex?
Do we want to only use the national dex?
Which game do we want to hack?

 

[miksy91]

I personally might participate for scripting and assembly job if we get a team build for it. This is only if there is a nice storyline and someone who knows what he/she is doing would complete most of the scripting, and the hack would literally turn out something you really want to work on to be finished.

But where to begin with, that is a good question. And who will take role and lead the project?

 

[Blah]

I think a lot of people are gonna be interested, just maybe not the best ones for the job. There should be a quota or something; MewtwoLover39482 shouldn't be let in just because he wants to be.

If he wants to be in, then he should be allowed in. The only reason anyone should not be allowed in is if they don't know how to do anything (i.e not a hacker). Plus I don't see why anyone would volunteer into doing something they don't know how to do.

Makes sense, they would at least need some knowledge. What about a simple test for the job they are applying for? Maybe they should have to proove they know mapping by sending in a map, or for scripters, making a script to talk to a person 5 times and on the fith time, he gives a cool item? Just something simple to make sure they know the basics. Not too hard or it won't be a community anymore.

That script can be done in so many ways, some more inefficient than others. It doesn't matter anyways. If I want to script and I can only do simple messages to people, I should be allowed to make scripts that are simple messages (whether that be for random village NPCs or Sign posts).

But where to begin with, that is a good question. And who will take role and lead the project?

Well, we can't make a community hack official without the consent of our dear governing force in this forums. The Moderator stated he wanted to gauge interest before starting anything, and I think the best way to do that is a poll. Leader and such can be determined out of the ones who want in later :)

 

[karatekid552]

If he wants to be in, then he should be allowed in. The only reason anyone should not be allowed in is if they don't know how to do anything (i.e not a hacker). Plus I don't see why anyone would volunteer into doing something they don't know how to do.



That script can be done in so many ways, some more inefficient than others. It doesn't matter anyways. If I want to script and I can only do simple messages to people, I should be allowed to make scripts that are simple messages (whether that be for random village NPCs or Sign posts).



Well, we can't make a community hack official without the consent of our dear governing force in this forums. The Moderator stated he wanted to gauge interest before starting anything, and I think the best way to do that is a poll. Leader and such can be determined out of the ones who want in later :)

The point of my test was just to make sure they had an understanding of scripting. It doesn't have to be done as efficiant as possible, just a small test to make sure they can do things.

I just wanted to say that on my computer, I have a message box template where I letterally just type what I want the person to say and hit compile. In my opinion, that is just text editing, not really scripting. However, we still need people to type out all those message boxes, where half of them seem to have really no point at allxD.


Last night I had an idea for getting this out there more. You know how there are all of the subcategories of Emulation, such as Rom Hacking, tutorials, etc? Would it be possible to adf a community hack section? We could then link to it like the tutorials are linked to at the top of Rom Hacking.

Just thought I'd throw that out there, I don't know if anyone would go for changing the layout of PC just for one project.

 

[Darthatron]

I don't feel like there should be some prerequisites to join the group. Simply if you submit something for the hack and it's not good, it won't be used. That's why we need a person, or group of people, who are in charge of final decisions about what is included.

Seeing as this is a community hack, it should be left to the mods or some person/people as voted by our peers.

I personally don't feel like it deserves it's own sub-section. A thread, or maybe even two (one for ideas and one for actual submissions), would more than suffice.

 

[DrFuji]

NOTE: I've just added a poll to the thread so everybody is free to indicate if they want to get involved or not. If there aren't enough interested voters then this Community Hack idea isn't going to go anywhere because it won't have demonstrated a strong enough initial backing.

I think you can't answer one question without at least considering the other.

Do we want to remake an official game?
Do we want a completely original story?
Do we want to use an official region?
Do we want to create a new region?
Do we want to add fakemon?
Do we want to have cameos from the series?
Do we want to have a custom pokedex?
Do we want to only use the national dex?
Which game do we want to hack?

But we can't answer any of those if we don't at least have something resembling a community team/ group of leaders who can collaborate and decisively make rulings on these questions. In my mind right now there are three stages to making a hack with such a large and open team prior to doing any actual hacking work:

• Gather people who want to participate or are at least thinking about it
• Assign the leadership positions based on volunteers
• Collectively make decisions on what you've written and other starting ideas

This is just how I've been thinking about everything. While its pretty different to how a normal team forms since the leader has everything sorted out, in this case the members are ones who will be making/ contributing to a lot of decisions rather than the leader laying out their desires. In my mind it wouldn't be right to make these calls before we even have a team since they are in effect the most basic and important decisions to make during the project.

Of course I'm not saying that my idea is perfect or that people agree with it, but its how I personally believe it should begin :D

I don't feel like there should be some prerequisites to join the group. Simply if you submit something for the hack and it's not good, it won't be used. That's why we need a person, or group of people, who are in charge of final decisions about what is included.

Seeing as this is a community hack, it should be left to the mods or some person/people as voted by our peers.

I agree wholeheartedly with this though :P

People interested in scripting or mapping etc could sign up, be given a job and if it isn't satisfactory then it isn't used - As simple as that. I'm still heavily in favour as using this as a chance to connect newer members with veterans so cutting off new people entirely would kinda destroy that hope as well.

Last night I had an idea for getting this out there more. You know how there are all of the subcategories of Emulation, such as Rom Hacking, tutorials, etc? Would it be possible to adf a community hack section? We could then link to it like the tutorials are linked to at the top of Rom Hacking.

Just thought I'd throw that out there, I don't know if anyone would go for changing the layout of PC just for one project.

Any new forums/ sub-forums have to submitted to the higher staff so gira and I wouldn't have any control over this. Unless this somehow becomes a colossal forum-wide thing with dozens upon dozens of members begging to join and a guarantee that something would come out at the end of it all I doubt they would do this considering how many forums we already have (but I might be miscalculating their views and intentions entirely :P)

 

[tajaros]

Yeah, I think so if we were to organize things there should be an exclusive forum or something.

But there will be a sign-up thread for the public and they can go there and sign-up once they're accepted they can go to the forum... :/ Something like the other forum done in their community hack.

And all of the things in the community hack will be kept private or secret or something like that. ;)

The leader should be someone very experienced in hacking and one that could lead the hack to glory! \m/

 

[machomuu]

I don't feel like there should be some prerequisites to join the group. Simply if you submit something for the hack and it's not good, it won't be used. That's why we need a person, or group of people, who are in charge of final decisions about what is included.

Seeing as this is a community hack, it should be left to the mods or some person/people as voted by our peers.

I personally don't feel like it deserves it's own sub-section. A thread, or maybe even two (one for ideas and one for actual submissions), would more than suffice.

Well, I'm not saying it needs a new section, just that a good number of people will either ignore or not see this thread due to its location. For instance, except for a few people at the beginning, it's been the exact same people posting. Then again, maybe they'll vote and not post, and that's fine, too.

And I agree about the submissions, which is why I think we should put a few people together to form a Submissions Committee.

 

[Blah]

5 votes in 4 hours :D
Not sure if people aren't seeing this or don't care to vote. The good thing is so far no one says no. By the way, what are you looking for the cut off to get started be? 20 people?

 

[Noossab Blue]

I think before this really gets off the ground there is going to have to be some behind the scenes work done. The best way I can think to organize it (and I think similar things have already been suggested, forgive me for not reading every single post) is:

1. One overarching leader, call it a president. They honestly don't need as many extreme hacking skills as they need organizational and leadership skills, to keep everyone on track, put out fires, make final decisions, etc, They would need a base knowledge of every facet of hacking, so that they can understand what everyone else is doing, but...

2. A small core team, call it a board, would be experts in their assigned fields (like mapping, scripting, spriting, storyline, asm, etc), and also have a bit of organizational and leadership skills. The leader would organize the board, but defer to them because they are the experts. The board would also be in charge of making decisions like what game? what features should we implement? And then divvying those tasks out to the appropriate groups.

3. Those board members would in turn have teams, call it a committee, where anyone who is interested can participate, assuming they have at least minimal skills. The committee leader would be in charge of assembling their team (have an application, test, or whatever), assigning responsibilities, overseeing production, and making final decisions, which they would then bring to the board to make sure everything fits with the overall hack.

__________

The way I see it, someone needs to take charge as the president, and gather a board around them to make some decisions before this gets public, like what I mentioned above. What game is being hacked (I would personally choose firered, only because I feel it is the most accessible for everyone of different skill levels)? What features should we implement (phy/spe split? Headbutting trees? fakemon? if so how many? should we use a hacked engine? new tile set? which one?)? And I'm sure more...

Once the basics are figured out, the board needs to decide an order of operations. Should storyline be the first thing created? Should they be working in conjunction with the mappers, or give the mappers the story after they're finished? Are fakemon needed for the story? Get the spriters on it. It's very possible that certain committees will have nothing to do for a long while. All the timing should be controlled by the leader/president, letting committees know when and what to get working on based what others are doing. There would probably need to be some documents accessible to everyone, like currently used space, flags being used, etc.

...anyway. Just some thoughts. I honestly think it's an awesome idea, but would basically have to be approached like an actual game is created. And most importantly, the people involved would need to be selfless about the process, not get caught up in whose ideas are used more, etc.

 

[hinkage]

If everyone wants a leader, then in that case I nominate myself

 

[Blah]

Yeah, I think so if we were to organize things there should be an exclusive forum or something.

But there will be a sign-up thread for the public and they can go there and sign-up once they're accepted they can go to the forum... :/ Something like the other forum done in their community hack.

And all of the things in the community hack will be kept private or secret or something like that. ;)

The leader should be someone very experienced in hacking and one that could lead the hack to glory! \m/

I don't like the "Sign up to see what we're doing" ideology. Anyone on the forum should be able to see what's going on and how far we are. I'd expect we'd get more people as production continues that way. Moreover, we don't really need a whole new forum section for this, maybe just a couple of threads :)

I think before this really gets off the ground there is going to have to be some behind the scenes work done. The best way I can think to organize it (and I think similar things have already been suggested, forgive me for not reading every single post) is:

1. One overarching leader, call it a president. They honestly don't need as many extreme hacking skills as they need organizational and leadership skills, to keep everyone on track, put out fires, make final decisions, etc, They would need a base knowledge of every facet of hacking, so that they can understand what everyone else is doing, but...

2. A small core team, call it a board, would be experts in their assigned fields (like mapping, scripting, spriting, storyline, asm, etc), and also have a bit of organizational and leadership skills. The leader would organize the board, but defer to them because they are the experts. The board would also be in charge of making decisions like what game? what features should we implement? And then divvying those tasks out to the appropriate groups.

3. Those board members would in turn have teams, call it a committee, where anyone who is interested can participate, assuming they have at least minimal skills. The committee leader would be in charge of assembling their team (have an application, test, or whatever), assigning responsibilities, overseeing production, and making final decisions, which they would then bring to the board to make sure everything fits with the overall hack.

__________

I do agree with this, but take out from #3 a minimal skill requirement. Everyone can participate with no guarantee that what they make will be used if it's not in par with certain standards. That way people can keep trying to add/help but won't be restricted in what they are allowed to do.

The way I see it, someone needs to take charge as the president, and gather a board around them to make some decisions before this gets public, like what I mentioned above. What game is being hacked (I would personally choose firered, only because I feel it is the most accessible for everyone of different skill levels)? What features should we implement (phy/spe split? Headbutting trees? fakemon? if so how many? should we use a hacked engine? new tile set? which one?)? And I'm sure more...

Once the basics are figured out, the board needs to decide an order of operations. Should storyline be the first thing created? Should they be working in conjunction with the mappers, or give the mappers the story after they're finished? Are fakemon needed for the story? Get the spriters on it. It's very possible that certain committees will have nothing to do for a long while. All the timing should be controlled by the leader/president, letting committees know when and what to get working on based what others are doing. There would probably need to be some documents accessible to everyone, like currently used space, flags being used, etc.

...anyway. Just some thoughts. I honestly think it's an awesome idea, but would basically have to be approached like an actual game is created. And most importantly, the people involved would need to be selfless about the process, not get caught up in whose ideas are used more, etc.

The leader(s) electing thing should come after this pole (I think 1 week for the pole is sufficient). After that we can start to discuss some of the more actual hacking issues. I think it's safe to say that we will be using Fire Red, since it's the most popular :)

If everyone wants a leader, then in that case I nominate myself

You are the first one.
I nominate myself and all who nominate themselves (thus I've effectively gotten myself 2 votes).

Spoiler:

I jk, I'm not a good leader, lol.

 

[Logan]

If you're looking for a leader I'd like to nomination Darthatron.

 

[tajaros]

If you're looking for a leader I'd like to nomination Darthatron.

I vote for Darthatron as well. I think he can lead the community hack pretty well.