CONGRATS! US HEALTHCARE REFORM PASSES!

[Åzurε]

I like the preexisting condition change, but did anybody look at how they say they're paying for it?

Medicare Payroll tax on investment income -- Starting in 2012, the Medicare Payroll Tax will be expanded to include unearned income. That will be a 3.8 percent tax on investment income for families making more than $250,000 per year ($200,000 for individuals).
So... we're taxing successful investors and their investments? The people who create small businesses, which employ a good third or more of the US workforce? And the administration says they're supporting small business. Interesting...

Excise Tax -- Beginning in 2018, insurance companies will pay a 40 percent excise tax on so-called "Cadillac" high-end insurance plans worth over $27,500 for families ($10,200 for individuals). Dental and vision plans are exempt and will not be counted in the total cost of a family's plan.
So this is taxing the companies that support the insurance?

Tanning Tax -- 10 percent excise tax on indoor tanning services.
Wth? Why put a 10% tax on something unprohibited like this? It just kinda seems to come out of thin air. Once it's applied, what percentage of people do you think will stop going?

In 2014, everyone must purchase health insurance or face a $695 annual fine. There are some exceptions for low-income people.

Or face a $695 fine. You have four years to get in a position where you can buy this health care, or you get fined an extra 700 dollars a year.

Technically, there is no employer mandate. Employers with more than 50 employees must provide health insurance or pay a fine of $2000 per worker each year if any worker receives federal subsidies to purchase health insurance. Fines applied to entire number of employees minus some allowances.

So, if even a single worker gets subsidies, you're paying an extra 2k per year for all of them if you decide not to give health care. That'll get them to provide it, I guess.

I just want to try and state the plans to pay for it in plain English, and it seems... well, a bit taxing. Not to mention the state Medicare is in already...

 

[WriteThemWrong]

obama's just a bad president, i'm sorry.

remember when he was campaigning and there was so much hope in his eyes (and speeches)? he promised so much, including promoting bipartisanship, helping the economy, and reforming health care. so far he hasn't kept any of his promises

 

[FreakyLocz14]

I like the preexisting condition change, but did anybody look at how they say they're paying for it?

Medicare Payroll tax on investment income -- Starting in 2012, the Medicare Payroll Tax will be expanded to include unearned income. That will be a 3.8 percent tax on investment income for families making more than $250,000 per year ($200,000 for individuals).
So... we're taxing successful investors and their investments? The people who create small businesses, which employ a good third or more of the US workforce? And the administration says they're supporting small business. Interesting...

Excise Tax -- Beginning in 2018, insurance companies will pay a 40 percent excise tax on so-called "Cadillac" high-end insurance plans worth over $27,500 for families ($10,200 for individuals). Dental and vision plans are exempt and will not be counted in the total cost of a family's plan.
So this is taxing the companies that support the insurance?

Tanning Tax -- 10 percent excise tax on indoor tanning services.
Wth? Why put a 10% tax on something unprohibited like this? It just kinda seems to come out of thin air. Once it's applied, what percentage of people do you think will stop going?

In 2014, everyone must purchase health insurance or face a $695 annual fine. There are some exceptions for low-income people.

Or face a $695 fine. You have four years to get in a position where you can buy this health care, or you get fined an extra 700 dollars a year.

Technically, there is no employer mandate. Employers with more than 50 employees must provide health insurance or pay a fine of $2000 per worker each year if any worker receives federal subsidies to purchase health insurance. Fines applied to entire number of employees minus some allowances.

So, if even a single worker gets subsidies, you're paying an extra 2k per year for all of them if you decide not to give health care. That'll get them to provide it, I guess.

I just want to try and state the plans to pay for it in plain English, and it seems... well, a bit taxing. Not to mention the state Medicare is in already...

The biggest thing I'm opposed to is the entire "mandate" concept. Why should we force anyone to do anything? We never require anyone to purchase any kind of insurance. You can even get out of purchasing auto insurance by not driving and taking public transit. And you don't even have to insure your own car, you just have to cover other people's cars you might damage, and other associated costs with auto accidents.

A comapny with 50 employees is not large at all. This bill will be detrimental to small busnisses. Sure they say there are subsidies but there will always be some people/companies who barely miss the cut-off income marks to qualify for these subsidies.

 

[Aureol]

As much as I hate this bill, I'm celebrating Democracy right now. I'm a Libertarian, so I didn't see this bill as a Democrat/Republican thing, I see this as many people see it: a chance to change a very broken system. Sure, it's definitely not in my direction (actually, it's VERY far from it), but I'm glad that on issues like these people actually try to figure out what our government's up to.

Eh, this is very bittersweet. I just hope not too much damage is caused by this.

 

[FreakyLocz14]

As much as I hate this bill, I'm celebrating Democracy right now. I'm a Libertarian, so I didn't see this bill as a Democrat/Republican thing, I see this as many people see it: a chance to change a very broken system. Sure, it's definitely not in my direction (actually, it's VERY far from it), but I'm glad that on issues like these people actually try to figure out what our government's up to.

Eh, this is very bittersweet. I just hope not too much damage is caused by this.

This could turn out better than we are fearing.
The Supreme Court could strike down parts of the bill like the mandates. Even better if the bill doesn't fund abortions.

 

[Aurafire]

BEFORE YOU SAY SOMETHING COMPLETELY STUPID

Healthcare Bill Summary
​

​

Too late.

I'm glad y'all are happy, but...Instead of taking the opportunity to blindly bash Republicans and complain about how we still don't have universal health care, maybe you should actually read the link Chibi posted and try to understand what this bill means in the long run. Because trust me, it's not just *poof* 30 million Americans are now covered with no drawbacks. We'll be paying for this for ages. One trillion dollars is a huge amount of money, and sooner or later, the middle class is going to be feeling the heat in the form of those wonderful things called taxes. Ironic how a bill that's supposed to support the middle/lower classes may actually come back to bite them in the arse in the long run, no?

Please, please, before I die from some these horribly idealistic and naive posts. Try to understand the bill before passing judgement. I don't doubt that many of you will still be 100% in favor of the reform, but at least know that it's not as perfect as it may seem =/

 

[Chibi-chan]

Put the link in that quote so people can see it on the second page too D:<

 

[Feign]

I wonder what would happen if the government suddenly rellocated a good majority of military spending to health care and educate... oh shi...

The only thing I don't like about Canada's system is how fragile it is. That is to say, all our good doctors were moving south where the money is. No offense to you guys and all, but I hope also with this bill some Canadian doctors will stay in Canada, and benefit our ailing system as well, that is to say, if they feel they need to stay, or are concerned about salary, though it doesn't sound like that would change... XD

Maybe we can make it as a symbiotic relationship? XD

 

[FreakyLocz14]

Not to be too mean, but Canada has itself to blame for its doctors leaving. If it didn't have a socialized system, they wouldn't be leaving.

Socialized medicine gives insurance companies less incentive to invest in newer technologies. They would go for what is cheaper so they can conform to the government's strict standards. Which includes paying doctors less. Why do you think most jobs are going overseas?

That being said I don't think this bill will help Canadians significantly. American doctors will probably still be paid much more on average than their Canadian counterparts.

 

[Feign]

Yeah, what I thought pretty much.

I remember my old sociology prof talking about public medical care, and how it could be fixed and such. Though that was a while back :3 (I should find the notes sometime).

In the end though, it seems the insurance companies just want a profit...

 

[FreakyLocz14]

College professors tend to be liberals so I wouldn't trust one without filtering for bias.

And of course insurance companies want to make a profit. Why does anyone start a business? To make money off of it.
The profit motive is what puts the US at the top of the world in the quality of healthcare. The best care and the best technologies go to people who can afford it. In countries with socialized systems everyone gets the same mediocre standard of care.

 

[Feign]

I'm glad I have that care to have the care nonetheless ;)

Lol... Profs tending to be Liberal... ROFL!!! *ahem* If you must know, this specific prof was VERY analytical, and thus would judge things on a per basis...

 

[FreakyLocz14]

Well you live in Canada.

I'm speaking about American colleges mostly. Your professor could also be different than the majority. I wouldn't know I've never met them.

 

[Feign]

I'm just not sure "Liberal" is the right term...

I mean a Conservative could still be open-minded, just not adhere to another belief...

It makes it sound as though they are the enemy... (I'd call myself a moderate).

And to keep this on topic, I'd assume schooling to become a nurse or doctor in the US, would just be as intense as it is here? Or rather, is it just as expensive?

 

[bmah]

I read the summary, and of course the bill isn't going to be perfect (really, did you think it could've?). As mentioned, the bill could be modified later anyhow if stuff doesn't work out the way it should. People won't like the individual mandate, and it's probably not an effective way to mandate health care anyhow, but premiums probably would skyrocket to make up revenue loss from gov't regulations without the mandate.
In any case, I can't complain that the bill would supposedly reduce deficit by $143 billion.

I've been wondering this though:

Americans pay taxes for city maintenance, garbage pickup, and other things related to property, right [correct me on the specifics if otherwise]? Then why do many consider taxes that contribute to health care as "stealing" their money when the access to health care is, I argue, just as fundamental as other services they currently pay for? Basically, why isn't health care treated on the same fundamental level as other services? Really, there are other things that Americans must mandatorily pay for, but I don't hear complaints there.

@Feign: yeah, I'm pretty sure schooling in general, except for perhaps community colleges, would be way more expensive there than in Canada.

 

[FreakyLocz14]

Just as expensive? It's most likely more expensive. The good news is nursing can be done at community colleges if you are satisfied with just having that level of work completed. Grant nursing programs are competitive to be admitted to, a lot of the time even at community colleges.

The economic crisis is forcing schools K-12 as well as colleges and universities to make cuts and up fees. Now is the time to look into a private school (one that doesn't rely on public funds).

 

[Yusshin]

I like the Canadian system; other than dental care not being covered, I know I'm looked after whether it be waiting in emergency for a condition to be analyzed (depending on the time of day, waiting times in my city are 5min-2h, based on severity) and I don't need to worry about costly bills for conception, medication, etc. My sister would normally pay 800$ a month for her diabetic medication, but after insurance and the Health Card, it drops to 10$. If I have to pay taxes over the course of my life to be sure that if something goes wrong with me or my family, I'm going to be okay, then by all means, I'm for it. I may be even paying for someone else's operation with my tax money; but at least it goes to a good place, rather than primarily into the army.

As for doctors leaving, we do have a shortage of doctors, but in Ontario and Quebec, they're trying to fix it by offering bribes to doctors to stay in the community, such as free housing and transport.

Europe has 2x the population of the United States, so I don't see why it can't suddenly take on the European / Canadian Health Care system. It's not biased towards the rich; it gives fair opportunity to all. I personally hate the American system's "Only the rich are treated" mentality. It's inhuman.

 

[Bianca Paragon]

Ding! America has reached First World Nation!
Gratz!

 

[FreakyLocz14]

If First World Nation means socialized medicine then sorry, we haven't got there yet.

 

[Mika]

Actually, this bill really doesn't do all that much in the current time.

They're giving it a few years; 2014 is when most of this gets enacted to the best of my understanding.

If you'll notice, Obama comes up for re-election in 2012 so he could very well not even be in office when/if the thing's actually enacted. There are already states putting up defensive laws against this damn thing and it's just turning into a horrific little pile of poo all around. If it makes it to 2014, great. I don't really see that happening. What loopholes aren't the insurance companies going to find? What tricks are hospitals going to come up with to still make the biggest potential profit?

I'm torn between trying to move abroad to a place with healthcare and leaving absolutely everything I've ever known behind me within the span of a year. I don't really have much of a choice because I can't afford private premiums. Why? To echo Klippy's comment, because I have pre-existing conditions that make me a financial loss to the health insurance company. I'm disabled because of said pre-existing conditions and have no income because of it. I looked into Medicaid and SSI, I'd be the type of person the system's made for, right? Wrong. My dad makes six digits a year and I don't qualify for Medicaid because of it. I can barely walk at the moment and the doctors have no clue why. Pretty scary considering that starting next January, I'm off my parent's nice somewhat affordable insurance and its somewhat reasonable copays. If they find something, ontop of trying to move, I have to try and handle it if it's life threatening or just try and learn to live with the whole not walking thing.

We, my family that is, just recently finished paying over 5 grand in medical bills. That's after insurance copays. That inflation of prices isn't going to come down anytime soon. Honestly, I think it's going to get worse because these doctor and hospital people are going to want to keep their nice little profits as nice little doctors with big houses do and they're going to charge out the ass for things they're already charging out the ass for. 30 dollars for two pills of medication. 3,989 for a simple MRI. 900 a night for an ER visit. 1800 for a bed, 600 a night for the room the bed's in. 60 dollars for a shot of painkillers/antibiotics. 20 dollars for a hospital gown. He had 12 pills a day. 4 shots a day. He was in the hospital for 6 days. You do the math. [Note: These are ACTUAL PRICES just so you know from when my dad was in hospital last year. Same hospital, in 96 when my sister was hospitalized in the ICU for an entire month? We had a 1 grand total copay and the hospital took off 300 dollars because of special circumstances. They don't do that anymore.]

Now I think people are being ridiculous with comments I've already seen places about how the goverment is going to control who lives and who dies [I've even seen comments about euthanasia of the elderly/sickly children because apparently that's what they do in Canada/Europe/Australia] and ridiculous little claims like that when the stupid bill hasn't even taken full effect yet. Imho, if we cared more about our fellow man than our own well-being and health ["I want my premium healthcare when I'm sick. If Billy can't afford it, it's Billy's fault for not managing his money properly" and/or "Billy's not my problem, I only care about my family and my problems"] then we wouldn't be so firmly against this I don't think. At least to my knowledge, the rest of the world thinks we're nuts for not already having this.

Something to remember tho, healthcare at its core in the US of A is nothing more than a highly profitable buisness. It's not about helping people, it's not about curing cancer, it's not about making sick people better. It's about doing all those things previously mentioned and making as much money as you possibly can while you're doing them. Canadian doctors moved to the US to get more money. People come from India to the US to make money. Becoming a Doctor is the most expensive school track in University in the US.

And I get that it's going to raise taxes; I'm upper middle class and this is going to hurt us. However, with the health conditions that I've had recently as well as stuff that's sprung up with my parents my ridiculously right winged Republican God-Fearing Stay-at-Home sometimes redneck mother has decided that this healthcare thing is worth the stress if it takes the strain off of us financially and makes it so I don't have to wait 6months to see a specialist about my heart murmur to afford the copay or you know, drop out of college for a semester or two to cover ridiculous medical bills. >:l

What's really ironic to me is that the people who seem to be complaining about this healthcare business the most are the lucky americans who don't have a slew of health problems. They can pay the bare minimum nice little premiums and see the doctor maybe once or twice a year no big deal. In a sense, they're getting 'screwed' by this because now they have to pay more. Poor you.

I understand that America is about the American dream and the pursuit of personal happiness but the more you ignore the problems of the people in your country, the worse things get. You don't take care of your people, the rest of the world looks down on you. Not that America isn't already looked down on for a slew of other things One last comment before I shut up, to those of you who think people are going to abuse the system? Somebody always abuses the system no matter what country, no matter what system it is. You can't avoid it you just have to deal with it. Take a great look at welfare in the US if you don't believe me. :>