Deoxys Ban: Should it stay?

[antemortem]

As of today, Deoxys-S and Deoxys-D have been banished to Uber by Smogon. The changes made to PS tier-wise don't technically apply universally but our server tends to go by Smogon's word. My question is should we this time? We don't have standardized tiering of our own but is it so much of a respected decision that the Deoxys formes should be banned to Uber as well, ridding the tier of one of the most common and dangerous threats in OU today, DeoSharp?

Discuss. Results won't necessarily hold water over what happens in regards to our tiers, so this is mainly just for the fun of it.

 

[DJTiki]

That's very odd. Deoxys-S and Deoxys D each had capabiltites that were rounded off by a weakness. D isn't hard hitting but really bulky, and S is pretty frail, doesn't hit hard, but has the highest base speed of any Pokemon(maybe Ninjask idk) Besides these 2 were only used as leads. The only time I saw Deoxys-D attack, was by using Cosmic Power, and finish it with Stored Power. But it's your fault for letting it set-up, same with any Pokemon.

I don't think they should be banned to Ubers, they were only great as leads, and if you had a Baton Passer giving Swords Dance to Deoxys-S. But other than that, it was kinda pointless.

 

[Mercurybro]

I know baton pass was recently restricted to only 1 pokemon knowing it per team. I heard (maybe misheard?) from others that Deoxys-S and D would probably end up going down to UU because of that.

I thought that Deoxys S and D were really good with their roles (revenge killer-ish and tank/hazard setter) but I haven't seen DeoSharp in play yet. If they were banning DeoxysD to Ubers because a teammate works well with it then I think that's BS unless Bisharp is banned to Ubers as well. But my old Ubers team (formed under Gen 5 tiers) has Deo-D in it and honestly, I think OU was too small for any of the Deoxys formes.

I think they finally decided to move only Deoxys up to Ubers because the other 2 Deoxys (normal and attack) are up there as well and Deo-D was in Ubers before Gen 6 changed things up. Bisharp isn't good enough by itself to jump up to Ubers.

 

[srinator]

That's very odd. Deoxys-S and Deoxys D each had capabiltites that were rounded off by a weakness. D isn't hard hitting but really bulky, and S is pretty frail, doesn't hit hard, but has the highest base speed of any Pokemon(maybe Ninjask idk) Besides these 2 were only used as leads. The only time I saw Deoxys-D attack, was by using Cosmic Power, and finish it with Stored Power. But it's your fault for letting it set-up, same with any Pokemon.

I don't think they should be banned to Ubers, they were only great as leads, and if you had a Baton Passer giving Swords Dance to Deoxys-S. But other than that, it was kinda pointless.

Deoxys s was one of the fastest revenge killer bar priority users. Lo and and great powerful coverage moves and that speed is what made it a threat

 

[DJTiki]

Deoxys s was one of the fastest revenge killer bar priority users. Lo and and great powerful coverage moves and that speed is what made it a threat

I never seen it outside a hazard set-up lead. It never crossed my mind.

 

[antemortem]

I never seen it outside a hazard set-up lead. It never crossed my mind.

Additionally regardless of whether or not the commonplace Deoxys-S set hit hard, it was essentially an unstoppable Knock Off.

 

[DJTiki]

Additionally regardless of whether or not the commonplace Deoxys-S set hit hard, it was essentially an unstoppable Knock Off.

That too.So I get what point you're coming across at.

 

[Anti]

Deo-D centralized the meta too much around hazard stacking offense, and it's pretty absurd to claim it's its opponent's fault for letting it set up when it's guaranteed Stealth Rock and usually Spikes. Just another poke we could argue about forever but let's be real, who's actually sad that Deo-D is gone? People who spam DeoSharp? It wouldn't be so bad if you could remove them but how many free turns do Thundurus, Landorus, Aegislash, Bisharp, Mawile, Azumarill, etc. really give you? Back in the days of the three "characteristics" it's funny how Deo-D is practically the definition of support characteristic.

As for Deoxys-S, it's versatile and I'm not sorry it's gone, though I tended to never really have trouble with it because its staying power isn't nearly as good as defense forme, but we're kidding ourselves if we say to ban D but not S, guess who's going to replace D and do nearly as good a job? And its versatility is really obnoxious, occasionally got hit with the "uh oh better avoid Psychoc Boost! oh cool it's dual screens well gg" to start off a few endgames which isn't exactly the best thing when both sets are amazing even if you see them coming.

 

[KorpiklaaniVodka]

Deoxys-D and Deoxys-S are not banned yet. The voting phase lasts till July 13th.

Edit:

Well that was super quick.

I'll keep the thread open in case people who haven't voted yet want to vote to qualify for TC, but the future votes don't matter towards the result.

We had 85 qualified voters with a 60% requirement to ban, meaning 51 votes needed to ban.

At the moment, Deoxys-D has 66 ban votes and Deoxys-S has 67 ban votes, so both are easily banned with at worst (assuming the remaining votes are all no ban) 78% and 79% percentage supermajorities.

Thanks for participating and/or following the suspect test.

We'll have this reflected in our showdown server and appropriate OU tournaments ASAP.

Look forward to the next one!

(also a senior staffer less lazy than big me can unmoderate this thread and make the votes public :P)

oh, Jhonn Willian voted too during this but I accidently deleted his post in the moderation queue so if you want to post again that would be nice ^_^

Remember, this is only enforced on SMOGON servers and SMOGON tournaments. It is ENTIRELY up to you to decide whether or not you decide to adhere to our community's rules and tiers. If you don't agree with a ban, please, play whatever you want on whichever servers / tournaments you want to play. We do NOT claim we are official and our tiering decisions are made BY our community FOR our community.

I disagreed with Deoxys-S's ban. It just doesn't hit hard enough, even with a Life Orb, due to that low base 95 special attack. It's an excellent revenge killer and dual screen user, but I don't think that pushes it over the edge.

Glad to see DeoSharp is gone, though.

 

[BadPokemon]

Even Deoxys-D can't take a super effective hit without being two hit KO. Knock off/taunt can take care of them pretty easily.

They need to stop banning everything.

 

[Anti]

Even Deoxys-D can't take a super effective hit without being two hit KO. Knock off/taunt can take care of them pretty easily.

They need to stop banning everything.

The snarky satirical comparison is in the other thread.

It's incredibly silly to just point out what beats something and then say "well, guess they're not broken." You realize MEWTWO gets murdered by Knock Off, right? Giratina gets shut down by Knock Off and Taunt too. These things can switch out of bad match-ups, or worse, do their jobs in spite of them. Ever seen a Mental Herb Deoxys-D? Because if not, it's getting at least one layer on you, two if your Taunt user is slower. But yeah, not a lot *can* take a supereffective hit well. But Deoxys-S can outspeed those things, maybe even throw up dual screens on Sucker Punch users, hile Deoxys-D can set up two layers easy on a ton of Pokemon or spread status. Negatives like that aren't irrelevant, but they're not the be-all end-all when both pokes can easily put themselves in much more favorable situations to do their jobs.

And "they need to stop banning everything" is just lazy, needlessly principled hyperbole that isn't very productive. What if everything that's getting banned is broken?

 

[MoxieInfinite]

Even Deoxys-D can't take a super effective hit without being two hit KO. Knock off/taunt can take care of them pretty easily.

They need to stop banning everything.

Deo-D was broken as ♥♥♥♥ combined with Bisharp/mixed Thundu. Deo-S wasnt as bad, but I didn't mind seeing it gone either.

Can you name a mon that can 100% shut down Deoxys-D from turn 1? Taunt? Deo-D can outspeed and Taunt you first, OR it can Magic Coat the Taunt back(not uncommon). Try to set up on it? T-Wave it and leave the finishing blow to someone else. Knock Off spam? Unless ur like ScarfTar, u cant stop it superreliably from getting a layer up. It also runs Superpower sometimes for Ttar and Bisharp. Magic Bouncers? Knock Off beats Espeon/Xatu, M-Absol is trash(but probably ur best shot at countering it)

 

[Dr. Silver]

I was always surprised that Deoxys-D wasn't in the Uber tier to begin with as it seemed to have all the makings of a broken defensive Pokemon. Then again, I don't really follow Smogon that much so as an outsider I can only speculate.