Disciplining Children

[Brolywrath]

But the problem is the system is abused. It doesn't matter if it's 1 parent or 1000 parents, it shouldn't happen. "Spanking" should never be designed to hurt the child, but in all too many cases that's exactly what it's used for.

Every possible system you can think of is abused. How is this any different?

Spankings aren't meant to be pleasurable for a child. It's supposed to hurt. Otherwise a parent would be striking its child with no purpose.

 

[Mika]

But the problem is the system is abused. It doesn't matter if it's 1 parent or 1000 parents, it shouldn't happen.

It sucks to kill the majority for the minority but if it protects just a few children then isn't it worth it?

I agree with this; sometimes it was just better to cry when you get spanked than to say nothing, cause then a parent would make it hurt until you cried. Basically, they're looking to make you wish you regret you did what you did. That's the fundamental purpose behind spankings, is it not?

It doesn't always instill regret tho. It instills, instead of regret, the notion that you absolutely cannot do what you did again or you'll get spanked again. For some kids, my sister included, they dare the parents to spank them again and they hit back. As far as crying goes, if I cried, I got spanked twice the amount I was originally given as punishment for crying. This is very common practice in the area I grew up.

The more I think about it, I think the idea of spanking is 'okay' but only if handled delicately and with love and compassion for the child's best interest. The parent should never be angry when he or she spanks the child and it should never be more than a brief reminder.

Unfortunately, you can't force people to abide by that rule.

I know it seems mean to punish the majority for the minority but again, if it protects kids then it's worth it. I don't want anyone having to go through what I went through and I didn't even go through that bad of a situation.

 

[Fox♠]

Every possible system you can think of is abused. How is this any different?

Spankings aren't meant to be pleasurable for a child. It's supposed to hurt. Otherwise a parent would be striking its child with no purpose.

Don't pull silly questions that aren't relevent and aren't really accurate.

Hitting your child with intent to hurt and harm them isn't the same as giving them a quick lash to teach them a lesson, what you're defending is sadistic abuse of what should be a sound system.

 

[Chibi-chan]

It sucks to kill the majority for the minority but if it protects just a few children then isn't it worth it?



It doesn't always instill regret tho. It instills, instead of regret, the notion that you absolutely cannot do what you did again or you'll get spanked again. For some kids, my sister included, they dare the parents to spank them again and they hit back. As far as crying goes, if I cried, I got spanked twice the amount I was originally given as punishment for crying. This is very common practice in the area I grew up.

You never dare your parents to spank you again! What power do you have against your parents? Absolutely none. That's something I would spank a kid for, outright defiance like that. Who the hell do they think they are? :| You dare your parent to spank you again, what, you think they'll run away in fear? It only stresses you didn't get the message. And yes! The purpose of spankings is that you WILL NEVER DO IT AGAIN. You will never draw on the walls again, steal a cookie again, cheat again, backtalk again...

The more I think about it, I think the idea of spanking is 'okay' but only if handled delicately and with love and compassion for the child's best interest. The parent should never be angry when he or she spanks the child and it should never be more than a brief reminder.

Unfortunately, you can't force people to abide by that rule.

I know it seems mean to punish the majority for the minority but again, if it protects kids then it's worth it. I don't want anyone having to go through what I went through and I didn't even go through that bad of a situation.

Different kids respond to different things. I really think it depends on what kind of punishment really gets the point across.

 

[Mika]

Don't pull silly questions that aren't relevent and aren't really accurate.

Hitting your child with intent to hurt and harm them isn't the same as giving them a quick lash to teach them a lesson, what you're defending is sadistic abuse of what should be a sound system.

Precisely.

An example [Sorry to repeat myself guys] of when a quick lash is appropriate:

"A small child reaches for a hot pan. A mother smacks the child's hand away. The child cries but leaves the pan alone."

A small child can't comprehend why they can't touch the pan. A 'nono don't touch' here isn't just irrelevant, it's dangerous. If they go for it again after a verbal warning and end up tipping it on themselves, they could be seriously injured. Same with running into a street. Talking back to a parent, coloring on the walls, that stuff isn't life threatening. It's a royal pain in the butt to deal with but it's not life threatening. It can be handled with other means of punishment that aren't as violent.

And just to be clear, I am not saying that smacking a child creates a violent child. In truth, in my experience [which I'm using because my personal experience is a first hand testimony which makes it a primary source of information which you are free to disagree with] it's made me abhor violence, it's made me meek and mild to the point where in certain situations, I can't speak for myself because I associate those things with a spanking. Perhaps to some of you my experience is 'abuse'. In the community I grew up in, I was a 'poster child' on how a child was supposed to be disciplined in the home.

Perspective, it changes based on your own individual culture.

You never dare your parents to spank you again! What power do you have against your parents? Absolutely none. That's something I would spank a kid for, outright defiance like that. Who the hell do they think they are? :| You dare your parent to spank you again, what, you think they'll run away in fear? It only stresses you didn't get the message. And yes! The purpose of spankings is that you WILL NEVER DO IT AGAIN. You will never draw on the walls again, steal a cookie again, cheat again, backtalk again...

Or with cases like my sister, you get big enough and you hit the parents back and they don't screw with you anymore because now they're afraid of you.

'WILL NEVER DO IT AGAIN' does not mean 'change the behaviour'

A child will make sure they don't ever get caught but they won't always feel sorry for what they've done regardless of what method is used.

And to be honest I think you've hit the nail on the head with that.

Every child is different and not one method, not even the ones I am preferential to, will work every time with every child in every circumstance.

 

[Honest]

I've never told anyone at school I was going to go take my belt off and beat them :|
That's a bit ridiculous. But yeah, I probably will threaten my children with that. It worked for me.

=/ I know what you mean, but... Ugh, it's so hard to explain. I guess I don't like the fact that parents use basically threats to make there child act the way they want, which is usually the right way. Can't they simply talk over it? I guess I am being a bit stubborn, but...

 

[Yusshin]

You're protecting your child from potential danger. That's understandable.

I'm still all for spanking when a child defies you / mouths off / writes on the wall (after verbal warnings, of course). You're protecting them from being obnoxious little brats when they grow up lol

 

[Brolywrath]

It sucks to kill the majority for the minority but if it protects just a few children then isn't it worth it?

How would it stop the few cases of abuse though? How exactly would this system work? Where would the guidelines come from? You would think outlawing firearms in particular states of the U.S would have decreased the gun crime but it has not one bit.

Don't pull silly questions that aren't relevent and aren't really accurate.

Interesting.
So you're suggesting that only the imaginary "spanking system" is abused then?

Hitting your child with intent to hurt and harm them isn't the same as giving them a quick lash to teach them a lesson, what you're defending is sadistic abuse of what should be a sound system.

Slow down there, partner.

I'm speaking of a proper spanking. Why it is abuse to hit your child beyond a "quick lash?" Who determines where the limit is? And more importantly, why are we speaking in such vague terms? Looping everything together for the sake of a few?

I would say, to strike quickly seems impulsive. Logically, a parent should never spank out of impulse and anger.

Most parents decide on what particular punishment they want to go with whether physical or not. That's not impulsive. By that time they have cooled down and can think clearly. What if a spanking was in order then?

Abusive? Sadistic because we don't agree? Laughable.

 

[Chibi-chan]

=/ I know what you mean, but... Ugh, it's so hard to explain. I guess I don't like the fact that parents use basically threats to make there child act the way they want, which is usually the right way. Can't they simply talk over it? I guess I am being a bit stubborn, but...

A five year old could care less your adulttalk about how you can't draw on the wall. You really think they understand how much it will cost to paint over it or the damage it will do to the value of the house?

Haha, do you really think kids will listen to why you shouldn't backtalk to them? That's an oxymoron! If talking solved everything, the world would be at peace. Some adults can't even solve things by talking.

 

[Mika]

A five year old could care less your adulttalk about how you can't draw on the wall. You really think they understand how much it will cost to paint over it or the damage it will do to the value of the house?

Couldn't you make the child paint over what he or she did or scrub away the mistake if it's erasable?

Wouldn't that be more productive in a sense than swatting them?

And what about redirection? Is that completely lost? Can't you say 'I love the artwork you've done but it's not okay to draw on the walls. We need to draw on the paper. After we clean up the wall together, we can draw a picture on this paper together." if it's a first time offense? If it's happened multiple times, something else may be in order but why spank first if you have other options that could very well work just as well?

I'm speaking of a proper spanking.

There is no way, in my opinion, to come up with a 'common' definition of what a proper spanking is in today's world.

 

[Honest]

A five year old could care less your adulttalk about how you can't draw on the wall. You really think they understand how much it will cost to paint over it or the damage it will do to the value of the house?

Haha, do you really think kids will listen to why you shouldn't backtalk to them? That's an oxymoron! If talking solved everything, the world would be at peace. Some adults can't even solve things by talking.

Well, when you put it that way... I guess you have a good point. I guess I'm just being really biased. Getting smacked in the face isn't something I've liked having done to me... No I'm unsure. >_>

 

[Yusshin]

Some adults can't even solve things by talking.

That's so true :| A five-year-old doesn't know the value of a dollar; they think two five dollar bills is more money than a 20$ bill. Why would they understand the concept of "drawing on the walls will lower the value of the house by 5,000$". They don't care. They just want a big wall canvas lol

Now that I think of it, even teenagers don't know the value of money until they live on their own. Some adults don't even know either.

 

[Brolywrath]

There is no way, in my opinion, to come up with a 'common' definition of what a proper spanking is in today's world.

I didn't ask your opinion regarding that, though. I asked, "How would it stop the few cases of abuse though? How exactly would this system work? Where would the guidelines come from?"

 

[Chibi-chan]

Or with cases like my sister, you get big enough and you hit the parents back and they don't screw with you anymore because now they're afraid of you. .

Haha, at that point, I'd just kick her butt out of the house :|
If she wants to bite the hand that feed her, she doesn't deserve to be fed.
Unless my child is holding a deadly weapon, I would never be afraid of my child. I hold the key to my child's future. They better realize that!

 

[Mika]

I didn't ask your opinion regarding that, though. I asked, "How would it stop the few cases of abuse though? How exactly would this system work? Where would the guidelines come from?"

I've asked that question myself.

They'd need to come from a variety of sources, not just one, and they'd need to cover all the basis. For example, you, Yusshin, myself, Fox and Chibi all have varying ideas on what is 'proper' for a spanking and what is not. How do you 'make everyone happy' and where do you draw a line between abuse and discpline that the majority of people would respect?

Before I injured my leg I worked with special needs children and I worked with Behavioral Special Needs children. It appalled me to see what those parents called 'discipline' and 'spankings'. Some of those kids came to school with welts on their bodies and the DHS couldn't do a thing because it was done under the parent's right to punish as they saw fit.

It wasn't every child I worked with sure, it was only a small percentage, but that small percentage is worth the overhaul imo. :c

Haha, at that point, I'd just kick her butt out of the house :|
If she wants to bite the hand that feed her, she doesn't deserve to be fed.

Haha, I agree. :p But at the same time, it's not always so simple for a parent to throw their own flesh and blood out of the house even if he/she deserves it. Intervention anyone? :D

 

[Brolywrath]

Couldn't you make the child paint over what he or she did or scrub away the mistake if it's erasable?

Wouldn't that be more productive in a sense than swatting them?

Depends on a number of factors. Has the child written on the wall before and knows that this is unacceptable behavior?

Spanking isn't a method a parent should use so quickly. I believe in most cases it's not even necessary.

I've asked that question myself.

They'd need to come from a variety of sources, not just one, and they'd need to cover all the basis. For example, you, Yusshin, myself, Fox and Chibi all have varying ideas on what is 'proper' for a spanking and what is not. How do you 'make everyone happy' and where do you draw a line between abuse and discpline that the majority of people would respect?

Before I injured my leg I worked with special needs children and I worked with Behavioral Special Needs children. It appalled me to see what those parents called 'discipline' and 'spankings'. Some of those kids came to school with welts on their bodies and the DHS couldn't do a thing because it was done under the parent's right to punish as they saw fit.

It wasn't every child I worked with sure, it was only a small percentage, but that small percentage is worth the overhaul imo. :c

Summed up: "I don't know."

I thought so.

 

[Yusshin]

The DHS is crappy, then.

My dad got super angry at me once. He hit me in the face for saying "**** you" to him. CAS was at our door the following day, prepared to examine the situation and take us away if need be. I don't approve of hitting anywhere other than the buttocks out of my own experience as a child. That was the first time my dad struck me anywhere that wasn't the buttocks, and it's true, now whenever my dad raises his hand super-fast, I think he's going to hit me and I cover my face. But damn, did it work. Hell yes it did.

My fiance was belted by his parents and his teachers. This is abuse, as is striking in the face.

Spanking so that it stings on the buttocks, it does not bleed, and you leave no welts, bruising, or long-term marks is the best way to describe what the appropriate force to be used on a child should be.

 

[Klippy]

I agree with Chibi.

I hate all these TV shows where the parents say they can't control their child or their child gets pissed if they can't go out and party one night. Until they're 18, they're under the parent's control regardless of how they feel.

If my child ever hit me back, I'd take everything away from them until they turned 18. No door, no TV, no cellphone, no fun. They can go to school, then come home and do their homework, eat dinner then go to bed. Until they're 18, they're under my house and I'm the one feeding them, paying for their schooling and whatever else.

I was spanked as a child and I didn't cry about it like my parents were abusing me. I did something wrong and that taught me to not do it again. My parents also made sure they were there for me to discuss things when I was having trouble and I've turned out really well. If a spank is what it takes for some children to get it through their heads that what they're doing is wrong, then good. There's just a difference between spanking and beating your children.

EDIT: If I ever cussed at my parents, I'd get my butt handed to me. Any child that disrespects their parents like that does deserve to get smacked in the face and soap shoved down their throat. That's just silliness. You're under their roof and under their responsibility.

 

[Chibi-chan]

I've asked that question myself.

They'd need to come from a variety of sources, not just one, and they'd need to cover all the basis. For example, you, Yusshin, myself, Fox and Chibi all have varying ideas on what is 'proper' for a spanking and what is not. How do you 'make everyone happy' and where do you draw a line between abuse and discpline that the majority of people would respect?

Before I injured my leg I worked with special needs children and I worked with Behavioral Special Needs children. It appalled me to see what those parents called 'discipline' and 'spankings'. Some of those kids came to school with welts on their bodies and the DHS couldn't do a thing because it was done under the parent's right to punish as they saw fit.

It wasn't every child I worked with sure, it was only a small percentage, but that small percentage is worth the overhaul imo. :c



Haha, I agree. :p But at the same time, it's not always so simple for a parent to throw their own flesh and blood out of the house even if he/she deserves it. Intervention anyone? :D

You are now creating an emotional fallacy :|
You are at a clinic. With people who have been abused. What are you going to see? Abuse! That's not a very strong arguement. That's like me going to a retirement home and saying that adults don't care for their parents so they send them there.

 

[Mika]

Depends on a number of factors. Has the child written on the wall before and knows that this is unacceptable behavior?

Spanking isn't a method a parent should use so quickly. I believe in most cases it's not even necessary.

And I believe that while I hate it, there are cases that something like spanking is necessary.

Summed up: "I don't know."

I thought so.

You have no ideas on how to make a standard that works either, do you? :p

Spanking so that it stings on the buttocks, it does not bleed, and you leave no welts, bruising, or long-term marks is the best way to describe what the appropriate force to be used on a child should be.

That's your opinion. In my opinion, kids should be spanked through clothing. See how it continues to differ?