Faeries & Lycans [Epilogue]

[Circuit]

Ok, so I've been kinda busy. And I reckon I've dug out some real good stuff. So prepare your bodies for a eye-opener!

Night is dark but hindsight is 20/20. Look back on last night to see the true colors.
Daemons are easier to identify than casters.
All these colors border on the truth, but a fire can show only so much.

Ok, so I've done a little bit of cross-game investigation here. Of course, all the Daemon's are known to us, or the information is at least available. I've identified them all, and looked at who is actually in this game. Matching that list with the clue "All the colors border on the truth..." Then GreenFlame immediately jumps to mind, no? But wait. There's more! When GreenFlame died the flames burned green. I don't know if this was unique for GreenFlame, but hey, this seems to fit a little too well to me. So many colour references, and also consider this as further evidence:

Haven knows at least one of these creatures

Need I say more? GreenFlame was in the previous game, and was a Daemon, and hosts the colour of the flames, should they burn a Daemon. All these hints point at him.

"I need you to return to the capital, Baldassare. Continue protecting the little monarch for the time being. I'll rejoin you when my work here is done."

Baldassare bowed and backed away. "As you wish." A similar dark energy quickly enveloped the man. His form changed and he took to the skies."I need you to return to the capital, Baldassare. Continue protecting the little monarch for the time being. I'll rejoin you when my work here is done."

Baldassare bowed and backed away. "As you wish." A similar dark energy quickly enveloped the man. His form changed and he took to the skies.

She was about to say something when they were all interrupted by the blaring of a bugle. She whirled around to see a large carriage surrounded by soldiers making its way into Haven. It bore the mark of the royal family.

...though he dressed like nobility

So, this is pretty much certainly the necromancer's apprentice returning, to influence the game. Not sure what this means for now, but if he IS a player he needs to be identified and fast. If he's going to kill off innocents as a favour for the Necromancer, or the Warlock it means certain defeat for us Havenites.

I also have further proof that Sonata was indeed the Seer Ascendant. Here it comes:

Sonata: "I think I saw something last night. I'm not sure what, though . . . it's a bit fuzzy."

She stared at Sonata for a moment. She gave him a short nod. "Let me know if you recall anything useful."

At no point was it mentioned that Sonata had seen a physical being, of any kind. "It's a bit fuzzy." implies that Sonata is having trouble remembering it. What else do you often have trouble remembering? Dreams. Had we actually paid attention to the lack of a subject having been seen in this scene, we could have worked out that Sonata could potentially have been the SA. If you need evidence for what I just said, go and read my previous posts on this debate. I'm simply pointing out that the evidence for him being the SA is very large now.

What do I want to achieve by adding this evidence to the mix? I'm pointing a finger at Shak. He is still claiming the role of SA, despite the large amount of evidence weighing on Sonata's side here. The stubbornness of Shak seems very much suspicious, and is almost like a last attempt to avoid death. I don't think he is the most dangerous here, but I don't believe for a second he is on our side.

They rolled down their sleeve, concealing the mark.

The transformation was complete.

Now then. I bet you're wondering why I'm bringing this up again? Well I want to tell you all that we have only one case of anyone coming face-to-face with a werebeast and not being attacked/poisoned/recruited and so on. This is when MI encountered a beast. He stared it right in the eyes remember? In the original role post for the Marked, it says that this person is allied with the beasts, but doesn't know who they are. MI's behaviour suggests he didn't know who said beast was, but that beast MUST have known who MI was, not to have attacked him. Otherwise, why would the beasts have held back? This isn't the strongest evidence we have, but I find it strange that after MI encountered them with no consequence, suddenly the Marked is revealed to be fully developed. Remember, MI is the only person who has met the werebeasts with absolutely no further event occurring. If this isn't sus I don't know what is.

And there you have it folks. The people we need to keep our eyes on today are: Cosmic (GreenFlame), Shak and Ice (MI). But that's just a theory! A game ninja theory! Thanks for listening! (Sorry not sorry for jumping on the GT reference bandwagon)

EDIT: HOLD UP. More evidence against Shak, I'm sorry, but this has to be said.

:/ I'm still not convinced that Sonata is the Warlock.
I don't understand why Neutrals would show up as Havenites. If they do, then that makes it even harder to guess which roles we've lost.
Lycan's really have their pick in terms of faking a role

I've literally just thought about this. Bearing in mind that Naku usually posts the affiliation of everyone accurately (i.e. unaffiliated would show up as unaffiliated) then Sonata is certainly a Havenite. His role we won't know until the end, but tell me. What reason would someone working to help the innocents have to fake a role? Unless they are super salty with someone, which Sonata didn't appear to be, then it serves no purpose, only to throw away the game. It makes simply no sense that Sonata would have lied about his role. Shak, you're a liar about being the SA. You aren't a Havenite, admit it now.

 

[Candy]

Pfft MI is on the list of Aiden's suspects now you guys should've listened to me when I made the joke from Day 2 and my analysis on the beginning Day 3's discussion haha.

 

[Lycanthropy]

There's still one thing I don't understand. Okay, actually there's more, but that's not important for now.

Sonata: "I think I saw something last night. I'm not sure what, though . . . it's a bit fuzzy."

She stared at Sonata for a moment. She gave him a short nod. "Let me know if you recall anything useful."

At no point was it mentioned that Sonata had seen a physical being, of any kind. "It's a bit fuzzy." implies that Sonata is having trouble remembering it. What else do you often have trouble remembering? Dreams. Had we actually paid attention to the lack of a subject having been seen in this scene, we could have worked out that Sonata could potentially have been the SA. If you need evidence for what I just said, go and read my previous posts on this debate. I'm simply pointing out that the evidence for him being the SA is very large now.

If Sonata's vision was a normal part of his role, then why would it be mentioned in the day post? That's not normally done, so could it maybe be caused by someone else or something?

 

[Shak]

What reason would someone working to help the innocents have to fake a role?

This is what I'm trying to figure out myself.
Surely you don't think I'd be dumb enough to point that out if I were a Lycan

 

[Circuit]

If Sonata's vision was a normal part of his role, then why would it be mentioned in the day post? That's not normally done, so could it maybe be caused by someone else or something?

Because, unlike most roles, it has a requirement before it can be used. It requires that the situation become dire enough that the role can be used. Whatever happened, it allowed Sonata to begin using his role, and we were alerted to it, in a subtle way. It let us know, perhaps, that the SA was now able to use their role.

This is what I'm trying to figure out myself.
Surely you don't think I'd be dumb enough to point that out if I were a Lycan

This tactic is blindingly obvious. Right now, if you're a Lycan (which to me is very likely right now) you are trying to double bluff us, using a strategy which would normally incriminate you, then use that as the proof of your innocence. This tactic is commonly adapted by people who feel threatened; that's not referring to Mafia, that's referring to people in any circumstance in life. Your behaviour, the things you've said and the evidence I've dug up all point to you lying about the role you're trying to claim.

 

[JaDe.X105]

[Burn] Carriageman he's obviously up to something bad

I agree, there's something not right about his arrival and with the necromancer telling his minion "Baldassare" to go to the capital to watch the monarchy..
[Burn] Carriageman

 

[Shak]

This tactic is blindingly obvious. Right now, if you're a Lycan (which to me is very likely right now) you are trying to double bluff us, using a strategy which would normally incriminate you, then use that as the proof of your innocence. This tactic is commonly adapted by people who feel threatened; that's not referring to Mafia, that's referring to people in any circumstance in life. Your behaviour, the things you've said and the evidence I've dug up all point to you lying about the role you're trying to claim.

*Sigh*
Tbh, your evidence against me is pretty solid, and I have nothing to prove my innocence. I knew the risks of going after Sonata, especially since he's innocent, so by all means lynch me.
But at least do me this favour, before you kill off another havenite.
Give me some hope that you can actually win the game, where do you intend to go next?

 

[Circuit]

*Sigh*
Tbh, your evidence against me is pretty solid, and I have nothing to prove my innocence. I knew the risks of going after Sonata, especially since he's innocent, so by all means lynch me.
But at least do me this favour, before you kill off another havenite.
Give me some hope that you can actually win the game, where do you intend to go next?

If people agree and we lynch you today, then I will try and dig deeper into GreenFlame/Cosmic's case. I am fairly certain he is the one Naku was hinting at, and who I'd like to chase after next. After him, I will definitely delve into this mystery about the marked. I get the feeling it is MI, after ruling out Sonata having also seen a werebeast.

Those are my current directions. I'm sorry, but I won't believe you're innocent until I see it.

 

[Shak]

If people agree and we lynch you today, then I will try and dig deeper into GreenFlame/Cosmic's case. I am fairly certain he is the one Naku was hinting at, and who I'd like to chase after next. After him, I will definitely delve into this mystery about the marked. I get the feeling it is MI, after ruling out Sonata having also seen a werebeast.

Those are my current directions. I'm sorry, but I won't believe you're innocent until I see it.

At least I can go out having given a least a little information.
As of my death, I can confirm that the Seer is still alive.
We can assume that they haven't gotten much information, otherwise they would've spoken up in such a hectic time.
I don't know if that's worth anything, but it's literally all I got.

 

[Circuit]

At least I can go out having given a least a little information.
As of my death, I can confirm that the Seer is still alive.
We can assume that they haven't gotten much information, otherwise they would've spoken up in such a hectic time.
I don't know if that's worth anything, but it's literally all I got.

Wanna tell me how you have this information?

 

[Shak]

Wanna tell me how you have this information?

My role description.
If they were dead, I'd be the new Seer.

 

[Circuit]

My role description.
If they were dead, I'd be the new Seer.

Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuude.

That's not the only way the Seer Ascendant gets their ability. It was never actually officially said anywhere that the only way for the SA to do anything is for the original Seer to die. That was only given as an example, which implies that there are other ways the SA can use their ability. Come on, I've already said this many times.

 

[Shak]

Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuude.

That's not the only way the Seer Ascendant gets their ability. It was never actually officially said anywhere that the only way for the SA to do anything is for the original Seer to die. That was only given as an example, which implies that there are other ways the SA can use their ability. Come on, I've already said this many times.

I know you've said that, but my role description says otherwise.
I'm not trying to convince you that I'm innocent, but when death proves me innocent I need you to trust what I'm saying. It's all I ask.

 

[Circuit]

I know you've said that, but my role description says otherwise.
I'm not trying to convince you that I'm innocent, but when death proves me innocent I need you to trust what I'm saying. It's all I ask.

If that's true then either Naku needs to inform us that the role is different than shown in public, or allow you to share your PM. The second option is iffy though, since PMs can easily be faked. Roles shouldn't really be ambiguous. The general idea should at least be known to everyone. If the activation of said role isn't clear, it's not really fair to both the player with said role, and those without. It screws over the person with the role, and by extension those who depend on it, or would benefit from it.

 

[Nakuzami]

If you knew everything in mafia, where would the fun be? You know about as much as a Havenite should.

I'm just going to say this right now, though: the hints I gave this day phase pertain to this day phase and the previous night phase only. They have nothing to do with the original hint in the day one post.

 

[Nagi]

If that's true then either Naku needs to inform us that the role is different than shown in public, or allow you to share your PM. The second option is iffy though, since PMs can easily be faked. Roles shouldn't really be ambiguous. The general idea should at least be known to everyone. If the activation of said role isn't clear, it's not really fair to both the player with said role, and those without. It screws over the person with the role, and by extension those who depend on it, or would benefit from it.

to be fair, Shak's description of the role is much closer to the one listed in the OP than Sonata's description was. that's not to say that i think Shak is the SA per se, though.

is it actually possible to burn the carriageman? i don't know how much longer this phase will continue, but i'm going to sleep real soon so i'll just try to hop on that bandwagon (if it is one) cause it seems promising at least, haha
[BURN] Carriageman

 

[Circuit]

to be fair, Shak's description of the role is much closer to the one listed in the OP than Sonata's description was. that's not to say that i think Shak is the SA per se, though.

In what way? And actually, I'd like to see a full description of the role as listed by Shak, because as far as I've seen he's insisted he doesn't know what the role actually does.

is it actually possible to burn the carriageman? i don't know how much longer this phase will continue, but i'm going to sleep real soon so i'll just try to hop on that bandwagon (if it is one) cause it seems promising at least, haha
[BURN] Carriageman

I highly doubt it. If Naku is introducing NPCs for us to fight, as well as the Lycans and unaffiliated, then the game becomes incredibly unbalanced, and I'll burn myself. Vote for a player, not an NPC; that's my feeling.

 

[alisaie]

[burn] carriageman

place...holder? I need to go back and reread but right now I really don't have many thoughts on what was said other than I really think that chasing GreenFlame/Cosmic will only end with us regretting it.

 

[Nagi]

In what way? And actually, I'd like to see a full description of the role as listed by Shak, because as far as I've seen he's insisted he doesn't know what the role actually does.

Seer Ascendant
The apprentice and destined successor to the current Seer. As they're a novice clairvoyant under the tutelage of an imperfect oracle, they're not typically permitted to utilize their powers as their sight is inordinate and the strain could prove too much for them to handle. Under dire circumstances, such as the untimely demise of the current Seer, the Seer Ascendant could be counted upon to act as Haven's spiritual leader and visionary.

as seen in the quote from the OP, it says that the Seer Ascendant 'is not typically permitted to utilize their powers', but 'could be counted upon' in case of an 'untimely demise of the current Seer'. that to me sounds much more like a 'backup' seer than someone who has dream visions like Sonata had. there is not a single mention of dreams or visions or riddles in the description either.
again, i'm not trying to defend Shak specifically, but just pointing it out.

I highly doubt it. If Naku is introducing NPCs for us to fight, as well as the Lycans and unaffiliated, then the game becomes incredibly unbalanced, and I'll burn myself. Vote for a player, not an NPC; that's my feeling.

you're probably right about this ( ´ ▽ ` )ゞ but then who do we vote for i wonder. i would have voted for Cosmic as you suggested earlier, but due to Nakuzami's warning that we should only take today's hints into account and not the one given on day 1, that may have implied that Cosmic is not the right track to take. so for now i'll go with your other lead - i'm pretty sure i also made a claim that MI was the Marked earlier anyway, haha
[BURN] MI/Ice

 

[Circuit]

as seen in the quote from the OP, it says that the Seer Ascendant 'is not typically permitted to utilize their powers', but 'could be counted upon' in case of an 'untimely demise of the current Seer'. that to me sounds much more like a 'backup' seer than someone who has dream visions like Sonata had. there is not a single mention of dreams or visions or riddles in the description either.
again, i'm not trying to defend Shak specifically, but just pointing it out.

No, it literally reads:

Under dire circumstances, such as the untimely demise of the current Seer, the Seer Ascendant could be counted upon to act as Haven's spiritual leader and visionary.

Please, everyone here, note the bolded "such as". This implies the situation is an example, and does not restrict the activation requirements to only being when the Seer dies. Please do not overlook this utterly crucial wording of the original role description, which makes or breaks the arguments provided. And Nagi, I have already explained why the visions and dreams is totally legitimate, but I'm not going to reiterate here. Go back and read my arguments supporting Sonata's claim again. I did pick apart the majority of the role description and Sonata's claim and matched the two together. I have also already said that we won't know for sure that Sonata was telling the truth, but through my arguments and deductions so far, I am 99.99% certain he was.

EDIT:

you're probably right about this ( ´ ▽ ` )ゞ but then who do we vote for i wonder. i would have voted for Cosmic as you suggested earlier, but due to Nakuzami's warning that we should only take today's hints into account and not the one given on day 1, that may have implied that Cosmic is not the right track to take. so for now i'll go with your other lead - i'm pretty sure i also made a claim that MI was the Marked earlier anyway, haha

Actually, I totally missed that little post by Naku there. However, he's not saying that we should disregard the hints from Day 1, only that today's hints don't actually relate directly to the hint in Day 1. But that doesn't mean to say that the hints don't fit together, just that they weren't posted to relate to each other. Finding parallels and crossings between hints is a different thing entirely to hints relating to one another.