Fanfiction Lounge

[JX Valentine]

If the date on each chapter means so much that it stops new people from reading even after the fact maybe it is just as well they don't read it after all.

You're missing a bit of my point, though. My point was that you update so infrequently that we're just as likely to forget that your story exists. It's not "too bad" that "the date means so much to us." It's "we can't keep up with your story because most of your audience up and leaves the forums in the time that it takes you to write another chapter" and "we think your story is constantly abandoned" and "we can't touch this because it's over a month old, and the mods would kill us."

I only brought up the topic because you said everyone would want to know the character.

Also missing the point. The reason why I asked is because I wanted to know if you were talking about Joy or some other character of another fic you were planning. You were literally only asking half a question, particularly because you say you write in first person. Your question depended on who you were asking about.

That and to be honest, if you're going to ask a question about something you're trying to write, you might as well sum it up as you're writing the question, rather than point to your story and say "go read it." It's really just courtesy in that aspect because what you're doing by pointing people to your banner and not specifying who you're asking about is expecting us to take the time to read and carefully analyze your story. Granted, you post your work on a community to get someone to do so, but the point is it's easier to have the writer describe the actual situation, rather than for us to make assumptions that may or may not be correct. (For example, what if we misinterpret how you portray Joy?)

Edit: And to tell you the truth, what I said in that earlier post was my way of saying your question couldn't be answered in detail, but the answer can be summed up loosely as "take a long look at your character and figure it out from there."

But just becuase it is slowly updated is not the same as it not still being always there to be read (and commented on),

Actually, we can't comment on it most of the time due to PC's no thread revival rule. Likewise, it's not always an active story. As I've said before, your story gets buried in the time it takes for you to update, and it gets buried under tons and tons of other stories that update frequently -- some of which, frankly, are of equal or better quality. Readers gravitate towards those stories that they can be entertained by on a frequent basis.

Yours, meanwhile... basically, Orange, you're like a new face every time you show up. Whenever you pop up, half the forum doesn't actually know who you are because you do so infrequently, and I'd hate to say it, but not everyone knows your fic. Unfortunately, this goes along the unwritten laws of this kind of community, wherein unless you're super-famous (which I'd hate to say it, but compared to a name like Dragonfree...) or an active name in the community, not a lot of people will read your fic.

Long story short, my point was that most of the people here don't actually know who you are, and it's not like those people who don't go through every page of the forum to find your story. You're posting today, but please don't expect the people who joined between the time you went idle and now to have read your story. Likewise, if you're going to stop posting tomorrow, don't expect anyone else who joins to go find your story either. As for those few of us, such as myself, who have been around long enough to have seen you pass through the last time, we're probably following something that updates a bit more frequently because, frankly, those are more memorable to us than something that updates once a year.

I do still get reviews on other forums and sites to this day so PC is more the exception than the rule

Yeah, uh, I checked PE2K's version of Evolution of Fable, and you got four reviewers in the past year, one of whom was a friend? =|

Not to mention, again, in those communities, you're more active, so they're probably seeing your banner more often than you're flying it here. People on PC didn't (or don't, considering not everyone checks this thread as well) know your story exists, and even if we can now we see your posts and your banner, we can't do anything about it. PC's rules state we can't revive threads over a month old unless we're the thread starter posting a new installment, so even if we did, on the off-chance, actually go back to find your story, we couldn't do anything about it either way.

 

[An-chan]

So, it took me the whole freaking day to read what you had written. Once I reached the latest post, I thought I'd refresh the page just in case someone has posted something while I read... And you've flowed to the next page. Why does activity in this thread come in waves? It's always either on or off. Never in between.

That said, I find it funny how you people complain about too warm weather ;_; We currently have 7 degrees celsius in Finland, so that's about 45 F, I think. It's freaking April already! Why doesn't the weather get any warmer? Normally spring comes around my birthday, but this year we had a blizzard instead. It's a climate change alright, but the warming apparently isn't quite global. (Yeah, yeah, I know. I just like to make stupid and inaccurate jokes about teh fearsome climate change.)

*The server is too busy at the moment. Please try again later.* pops up for half an hour before she is able to post*

Why? Why? What's up with PC nowadays? During the afternoon of my time zone, PC is never accessible. The server is always busy. It makes everything considerably harder. :disappoin Grr.

On the subject of Farfetch'd and its leek:

I wonder if it has to be the same kind of leek every time. I mean, what if the poor critter picks up a wrong kind of leek and lives with it until it's time to eat the leek as a last resort... And what do you know, it's a wrong kind of leek, one that isn't suitable for ducks.
Anyway, I don't think the leek itself is vital for Farfetch'd. Maybe the reason they die when separated from the precious leek is entirely psychological. Whatever the case might be, I reckon there still are exceptions... You know, outcasts who don't care about their leek or maybe carry a stick or something sacrilegious like that around.

Maybe it's something like in Speaker... Maybe the leek is a child or an ancestor of the Farfetch'd in question. In that case, it's only natural to totally freak out when the situation is so bad you have to eat the leek or lose it some other way. They freak out so bad they get a heart attack. That makes sense, no?

 

[Shrike Flamestar]

Orange Flaffy, it's not that people don't necessarily want to read your fic because it's old in and of itself, but because it's so old that most people don't even know that it exists. I don't have any statistics, but I'd wager that a lot of people looking for something to read won't look past the first few pages of the forum; I certainly can't imagine anyone diving back far enough to casually find yours.

But wait! You have a link in your sig, yes. So do I and that certainly hasn't helped my reader situation. -_- I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that the sort of people who'd obsessively compulsively check any and all sig links are the kind of people who wouldn't have the patience to sit and read through a fic anyways, so a fat lot of good sig advertisement does. They're like commercials; to see any sort of real gain you need to absolutely flood your target audience with them to the point where the rather slim chance of one individual actually biting just adds up.

But wait, there's still more! You think that we, being fellow writers ourselves, should feel obligated to read every fic written by people that we know? Well, I can't speak for everyone but for me at least the fact is that I rarely read fics at all (which made the plot twist with this recent FFOTM thing which I can't divulge as I bet Astinus wouldn't like that all the more aggravating) due to real life obligations (read, school) and preference to work on my own fics over reading someone else's. Other people only read on request, while others only read stuff their close friends wrote, and others may read a lot but only review rarely or if the story really needs help. In my mind, the people who get tons of reviews are the lucky ones and those of us who have to be content with just a few or none are normal, as much as we'd all like to think otherwise.

Also, one more thing. In a forum like this you have the whole no-necroposting thing, meaning that even if someone were to read your fic now they couldn't leave a review (they could PM you with it but not everyone thinks of that), and so they may not even bother reading it in the first place. At such places like ff.net, rules like that don't exist (but the whole thing about no one bothering to look that far back is amplified even further when your fic may be pushed off the first page in a matter of minutes).

Anyways, what it comes down to is that you just need to accept that unless you do something to make your fic stand out from the crowd you can't expect to get many readers and thus reviews. One way to make it stand out is to get a bunch of glowing reviews, of course, but that's a catch-22 right there. You can resort to spamming, but that's against the rules. You can get a FFOTM but that'd mean you'd need to update more often and take a metaphorical roll of the dice (or make a bunch of sockpuppets and spam Astunus with nominations). Really, the only way to make your fic stand out is to make it really, really good and update frequently so that more people will be exposed to it since you can't just rely on your sig. Yes, there are examples such as Pokemon MASTER where a bad story got really popular despite not really deserving it, but...those are exceptions and not the rule. Just think of them as the Twilight of the Pokemon fanfic scene.

Yet another thing (this is the last one, I mean it!), from taking a look at your fic I see it's a Pokemorph fic, so you have to realize that those simply aren't that popular. I, for one, get sick of anthros while looking for good porn art and don't really want to read about them (although the other type of Pokemorphs, the Animorph kind, are always welcome since that's what got me into fanfiction in the first place). You can't expect people to read a genre they don't like, so there's another reason you may be struggling for readers/reviews. I don't expect people who don't like sci-fi to read TRINITY, nor those who don't like stories that involve a touch of fantasy (magic, swords, angels, that kind of stuff) to read TFC (although I have the feeling that in the old version I had fooled a ton of people by not representing those elements at the start, thus turning people off as the story went on. While that's still similar here, the new prologue hopefully helps to give the smallest glimpse of what the future of the story will be like).

Hope you don't take this all too harshly, I just think you need to take a step back and realize that your situation is no different than any one else's.

And Xantine Valentine beat me to the punch but whatever. I'm used to just finding myself repeating what others say. -_-

 

[Orange_Flaaffy]

we think your story is constantly abandoned"

But it's not, it's always being written.
The no replying to a topic over a month old rule is new to me. Of course it would be, you say, you aren't here often enough to know..I understand...
That makes me wonder, does anyone ever even read finshed fics here if you can never reply to old topics? Or does anyone in the pokemon fandom as a whole? If everyone is always chasing after the new and shiny 'best writer and fic to date ever' I'm surprised any of them have staying power anymore if only the author names with active weight supply half of word of month...

Also missing the point. The reason why I asked is because I wanted to know if you were talking about Joy or some other character of another fic you were planning. You were literally only asking half a question, particularly because you say you write in first person.

And I was talking about Joy, as it is the only story I am working on and the only one I post, therefore it would be the only one that could be on topic for a pokemon forum.

As I've said before, your story gets buried in the time it takes for you to update, and it gets buried under tons and tons of other stories that update frequently -- some of which, frankly, are of equal or better quality.

And so I suppose to just give up on reviews (and maybe some larger unspoken way writing) because of this? :) I know that there will always be writers better and worst than me, the same can be said of any writer (as tastes change with time, and from person to person). But the fact that my story is not updated often (while being something I know is very important to a certain type of reader) does not by default make everything that is updated more often more readable.

Yours, meanwhile... basically, Orange, you're like a new face every time you show up. Whenever you pop up, half the forum doesn't actually know who you are because you do so infrequently, and I'd hate to say it, but not everyone knows your fic. Unfortunately, this goes along the unwritten laws of this kind of community, wherein unless you're super-famous (which I'd hate to say it, but compared to a name like Dragonfree...) or an active name in the community, not a lot of people will read your fic.

I am not writing to be well known, all and all. I would rather take my time and get each chapter just how I picture it the first time than update and then be editing over and over, confusing the reader and myself. It's true I'm not very active here, but that is not true of all my fandoms. This may go against unwritten laws, but I never had plans to be as well known as Dragonfree...And if I did I really think I would be in fandom for the wrong reason. The only reason I write is because I like pokemon after all..I guess I just need to remind myself of that when I get bit by the review/reader that knows what I am talking about bug :).

Yeah, uh, I checked PE2K's version of Evolution of Fable, and you got four reviews in the past year? =|

That's still good to me :).

You're posting today, but please don't expect the people who joined between the time you went idle and now to have read your story. Likewise, if you're going to stop posting tomorrow, don't expect anyone else who joins to go find your story either. As for those few of us, such as myself, who have been around long enough to have seen you pass through the last time, we're probably following something that updates a bit more frequently because, frankly, those are more memorable to us than something that updates once a year.

It's nice that you speak for everyone past and present in your general dislike for my story ever having a future anywhere based when it is updated and the fact that it could be nothing but mediocre at best to any reader to come...I have eaten more than my share of humble pie over the years, but I truly do not think that having the littlest bit of expectations about my work is at all greedy or rose tinted -.-. And no, I don't mean that in a condescending way, it is a simple fact I've learned in my seven years of being in this fandom...

Also, again, PC's rules state we can't revive threads over a month old unless we're the thread starter posting a new installment, so even if we did, on the off-chance, actually go back to find your story, we couldn't do anything about it either way.

*sigh* There is always the revision new thread side step but I swore long ago never to use it. I knew full well from the start my fic was going to take years to write so I decided I might as well just keep the same topic.

But wait, there's still more! You think that we, being fellow writers ourselves, should feel obligated to read every fic written by people that we know?

Don't misunderstand, I don't think anyone should feel obligated, I simply think that with so many people looking at it (and they do, judging by my numbers on FF.net) one review or at the very least a single reader thinking enough to say something elsewhere (and they do) is not too much to hope for, you know? I never said my fanfic was amazing in the least, but when someone puts 100% into their work I still in my adult life would hope it counts for..something. I'm not even sure what :).

Also, one more thing. In a forum like this you have the whole no-necroposting thing, meaning that even if someone were to read your fic now they couldn't leave a review (they could PM you with it but not everyone thinks of that), and so they may not even bother reading it in the first place. At such places like ff.net, rules like that don't exist (but the whole thing about no one bothering to look that far back is amplified even further when your fic may be pushed off the first page in a matter of minutes).

As far as FF.net goes I actually have a good record there (Good=one or two reviews per-chapter most of the time). I've had reviews years after the fact on stories, as readers there actually use the search button very often. I also make a point of using titles that are uncommon and catchy, which does wonders in itself :). If there is one thing I know inside and out from being a member since '98 it is FF.net :3.

Yes, there are examples such as Pokemon MASTER where a bad story got really popular despite not really deserving it, but...those are exceptions and not the rule. Just think of them as the Twilight of the Pokemon fanfic scene.

I'm sure you can tell that I have no intentions of posting badfic for any reason. My fanfic may not be the best of the best, but the whole reason it takes me so long to write is because I am trying to make it the best I can do with the story I want to tell, for better or worst. Maybe if I got over my 'best for me' fixation I could update much much faster but I am so afraid something would suffer...And Twilight *hee* the vampire novel genre run-th over...

I, for one, get sick of anthros while looking for good porn art and don't really want to read about them (although the other type of Pokemorphs, the Animorph kind, are always welcome since that's what got me into fanfiction in the first place).

The thing is my version of them are not anthros or vampires in ether of the normal senses...which I guess amounts to 'Huh?"s on both sides. But I know for the fact my ideas have more backing to be understood that most pokemon stories regarding vampires :P. Not that that is hard to do...

You can't expect people to read a genre they don't like, so there's another reason you may be struggling for readers/reviews.

I guess I will just keep on writing and finish it :). In the end it ether will speak to a reader or won't. I know I am very picky myself about what I read , even if I read often and the topics vary (Which could, in some weird disconnected way, effect how I write and give me that same smaller reader base now that I think of it...)

Hope you don't take this all too harshly, I just think you need to take a step back and realize that your situation is no different than any one else's.

I already realized that a long time ago, but I think everyone can and should vent online now and again. At least we can all relate to one another :).

It's funny, I first actually posted my two questions in the hopes that they would become highlighted discussion questions that everyone could reply to with their ideas of their version of a good series of montage scenes or what they felt was a justified example of changing point of view, which is actually why I went out of my way to not supply details and make the questions generic :\

Farfetch'd and its leek

You know, I always wondered: What happens when the leek goes bad? A picked vegetable only lasts so long, even if you put it in water every night, after all O.o

 

[An-chan]

I'm also agreeing with Shrike and Jax Valentine, Orange. The no-reviving rule is an important factor in this case, as well was the fact your fic gets buried to the 3494578356th page. And the 3494578356th page never sees the sunlight, as no-one ever goes that far back when looking for something to read.

Also, I constantly spam PC with my posts in several different sections, I have links in my sig, yet still practically only one or two people ever really let me know they've read my fic.

I noticed you had the "I don't care what people think, I'm still going to keep writing" attitude back there. That's the best possible attitude in this case, you know. If you keep writing and updating the fic, even if the interval is ten years, you'll get at least some readers. Also, nothing is more annoying than "well, since no-one cares, I'll discontinue this fic" or "comment if you read this because I'm not going to write if no-one reads this". So, keep at it and the situation will get better!

...At least that's what I hope.

 

[JX Valentine]

But it's not, it's always being written.

How exactly do you expect us to know you're still working on it? It's not at all uncommon to have a fic started but abandoned after a few chapters. In fact, a large number of chaptered fanfics in this fandom seem to end up like that. Not to mention, again, if we found your fic in the first place, we'd be lucky.

The no replying to a topic over a month old rule is new to me.

It was in place for a long while, even before you left. =| I know because I'm pretty sure we had a similar discussion about this the last time you were around, and in any case, I'm pretty sure it was here since Pichu was a mod of this forum.

That makes me wonder, does anyone ever even read finshed fics here if you can never reply to old topics? Or does anyone in the pokemon fandom as a whole?

That depends. If it was epic or otherwise extremely popular or revolutionary at the time it was written (a la Pokemon MASTER or Farla's Lucki), then yes. For the most part, however, no.

And I was talking about Joy, as it is the only story I am working on

Again, not something someone would have known. Your story is, as I've said numerous times, technically inactive, and you could have just as easily been referring to something you were planning or one of your numbers of fics on FFNet.

Still not the entire point either way, although I admit the point I was getting at was brought up and clarified in an edit.

And so I suppose to just give up on reviews (and maybe some larger unspoken way writing) because of this?

Not sure what you mean here, actually. If you mean give up on waiting for someone to review your work, then on PC, until you post an installment, yes, don't expect public reviews because we'll get smacked for it. We're not breaking the rules that have been in place for awhile for you. Sorry to be biting about it, but you really can't ask us to do that. As Shrike said, we can PM or VM reviews, but he also brought up the point that although you're doing sig advertising, it doesn't mean much until we get some sort of reassurance that you're not going to disappear for another year without giving us something new to read.

does not by default make everything that is updated more often more readable.

I never said it did. I said your story was average, so people will gravitate towards stuff that's updated more frequently that's also on the same or higher level because they'll have more of a guarantee that they'll get something fresh and new, rather than wait around for a year or more for the next part. Your story is still readable, but it just doesn't hold a reader's interest the way something on the same level with a higher update frequency can.

It's nice that you speak for everyone past and present

I'm not speaking for everyone. I'm asking one simple question: how exactly do you expect anyone to know about your story when you disappear on us and let your story get buried? =/ That's like saying you're expecting us to find something we don't even know is there, like finding a needle in a haystack before telling us we're looking for a needle.

As for the last sentence, it applies to PC's vets to explain why we haven't touched your story as well.

but I truly do not think that having the littlest bit of expectations about my work is at all greedy or rose tinted -.-.

Sorry, but if your story is buried, coming in here surprised that no one's found it is expecting a bit much, especially considering how often your banner pops up and how many fics are in this archive. You're not the only one here, after all. (I know -- or at least hope -- you realize this, of course, but.)

And no, I don't mean that in a condescending way, it is a simple fact I've learned in my seven years of being in this fandom...

I've been working with the Pokémon fandom in general since I was twelve and this particular forum consistently since 2006. I think I know a thing or two about how things work as well.

*sigh* There is always the revision new thread side step but I swore long ago never to use it.

There's a simple solution: posting a new chapter within a month of the last response to your thread. No one else can post in an inactive fic thread except the author posting a new chapter.

I never said my fanfic was amazing in the least, but when someone puts 100% into their work I still in my adult life would hope it counts for..something. I'm not even sure what :).

Fact that I've noticed about FFNet (and PC as well): If you don't blanket-review (review everything ever in the category) or get craploads of reviews as it is, it takes a long time to get people to review. The same principle tends to happen on FFNet as here as well. Inactive stories get buried, and they may get reviewed later on by luck, particularly if an author posts more recent work that gets attention. However, at the same time, fics that are updated more frequently tend to draw more of an audience than others that don't because they're always on the front page.

For an example, my fic, AEM, updates once or twice a month. So far, since October, I've got thirteen reviews. I've got tons of views and more alerts than I care to count, but my story gets reviewed less than another nine-chaptered work that updates once a week. (On the front page, I spot a seven-chaptered one that's got twenty-seven reviews -- more than twice than my work -- but has posted those seven chapters in two months.)

In other words, yeah, update frequency keeps your fic on the front page, and keeping it on the front page = more people noticing and feeling compelled to comment.

On top of that, to add to this, I have another small fact. Lots of people put in 100% effort into their fic, but not everyone's going to get a proportionate amount of attention or response. Again, AEM? I haven't been able to write anything besides it and school papers since I started it. I've got folders full of documents that contain notes and drafts. I've worked with multiple beta-readers, and I edit my story frequently. And how many reviews do I have? Thirteen on FFNet and a handful on PC. I couldn't tell you why (aside from the fact that most of the chapters are long and my update frequency leaves much to be desired), but despite all the work I put into it, I don't get people jumping to respond whenever I post something. You've got to be patient, and if you don't get a response, you've got to keep posting enough to remind people that you're there. You can't blame your audience here.

as readers there actually use the search button very often.

To quote you, I love how you speak for everyone here. To be honest, not everyone does. I personally find the search feature on FFNet unwieldy, and of course, you've got to keep in mind that you're also competing with over 9000 other Pokemorph fics on FFNet. (Which, actually, is probably literally.) Catchy title or not, you're lucky to be noticed at all.

In other words, please stop blaming the members of the community that you're not getting the attention you want. I realize you're putting as much effort into your work as you can, but the fact of the matter is you're competing for attention constantly on a fanfiction community. In order to win it, you just have to keep posting and present something interesting to the readers on a frequent basis. As much as I'd hate to say it like this, this is something you can really do more of, even if you say you are.

As a note, I agree with An-chan's comment that you should just keep on writing and cross your fingers that you'll get attention eventually. I just don't agree with your tone that it's completely surprising that the members of the forum haven't read your fic, as if it's an utter travesty that they haven't. (Or, at least, that's how you seemed to have come off to me.)

Edit:

It's funny, I first actually posted my two questions in the hopes that they would become highlighted discussion questions that everyone could reply to with their ideas of their version of a good series of montage scenes or what they felt was a justified example of changing point of view, which is actually why I went out of my way to not supply details and make the questions generic

And then I gave you a general answer, and you were surprised that I gave you a general answer by asking if it was true that no one reads your story. =|

 

[Orange_Flaaffy]

Sorry, but if your story is buried, coming in here surprised that no one's found it is expecting a bit much, especially considering how often your banner pops up and how many fics are in this archive. You're not the only one here, after all. (I know -- or at least hope -- you realize this, of course, but.)

I may have a learning disability, but I'm not stupid, thank you :).

To quote you, I love how you speak for everyone here. To be honest, not everyone does. I personally find the search feature on FFNet unwieldy, and of course, you've got to keep in mind that you're also competing with over 9000 other Pokemorph fics on FFNet. (Which, actually, is probably literally.) Catchy title or not, you're lucky to be noticed at all.

*shrugs* I use the search, I find it simple, others do to. Not all, but many. And actually, no there are not that many readable Pokemorph fics . It helps that my fic has been added to some of the nicer (Read: Lists pokemorph fics that are not full of things that make any fan of such stories rip their eyes out) FF.net groups, I know, I never denied that I do have some readship elsewhere ...

On top of that, to add to this, I have another small fact. Lots of people put in 100% effort into their fic, but not everyone's going to get a proportionate amount of attention or response. Again, AEM? I haven't been able to write anything besides it and school papers since I started it. I've got folders full of documents that contain notes and drafts. I've worked with multiple beta-readers, and I edit my story frequently. And how many reviews do I have? Thirteen on FFNet and a handful on PC. I couldn't tell you why (aside from the fact that most of the chapters are long and my update frequency leaves much to be desired), but despite all the work I put into it, I don't get people jumping to respond whenever I post something. You've got to be patient, and if you don't get a response, you've got to keep posting enough to remind people that you're there. You can't blame your audience here.

I have eight, my other more active stories that were updated as you suggest have ten and six...All and all, I think that effort and quick updates can both amount to nothing at times. Nothing that is, but the warm feeling of writing itself :).

nd then I gave you a general answer, and you were surprised that I gave you a general answer by asking if it was true that no one reads your story. =|

I only did so because you seemed to be saying if I didn't supply the character I was writing about the question wasn't worth asking (even in a lighthearted writing group 'what would you do?' sense where I wanted to keep it). I actually did not ask if anyone was reading my fic so much as say that 'I guess it really is true', meaning that I pretty much knew anyway :). Again, I'm not stupid ;).

I just don't agree with your tone that it's completely surprising that the members of the forum haven't read your fic, as if it's an utter travesty that they haven't. (Or, at least, that's how you seemed to have come off to me.)

I agree my tone may not be very agreeable, but I've heard it echoed many times by other writers. Sometimes it is justified, sometimes it isn't (like mine), but hardly anyone is above such thoughts even if they say they are 'too mature' (and never post their feelings, for fear of a debate like this one and somehow being seen as a lesser author. Because for some reason the writer is always the wrong one in this wanting reviews/ or feeling the least bit proud. Always.). I think it is far more healthy to voice such feelings than bottle them up...It is more the showing of a common humanity that all writers share: The hope that, when all is said and done, our lifes will not all become that dusty pile of papers forgotten in a drawer somewhere (something that happens, sadly, to even big name authors that write a whole novel a year).

*sigh* Anyway, this topic is pretty much an endless circle that has been debated a hundred times before, but I think everyone has the right to feel pride, sadness, happiness and satisfaction about writing and vent it in forums without it being an unspoken attack on how much work everyone esle does. Everyone who is a good writer puts their heart into things their own way...

 

[JX Valentine]

And actually, no there are not that many readable Pokemorph fics .

Okay, but this is your own opinion. Your definition of "readability" differs from everyone else's (unless you're talking about whether or not they're using the English language properly), and judging by the numbers of reviews other 'morph fics get, you're still getting competition. Besides, no one can tell whether or not your fic is good compared to others just by looking at the title and summary unless you completely screw up and have a title and/or summary that rape(s) the English language. That and, as I've said before, people on FFNet tend to review things they see other people review. It's unfortunate, but it's true. Even if you get added to a list, if you're one of many on them, you're still competing.

Long story short, either way, you're going to be competing against other authors, and if you're not producing a lot compared to those other fics, those other fics will just win out over yours because they're read and reviewed by not only the people who look at the lists but also the people who just go with whatever's on the front page.

I only did so because you seemed to be saying if I didn't supply the character I was writing about the question wasn't worth asking (in a writing group 'what would you do?' sense :(.

Actually, I was saying it's pretty difficult to answer if we don't know what characters are involved because, as I've said repeatedly, the answer depends completely on who's telling the story, particularly if it's in first person. If it's in third person, then you've got the montage advice I gave initially (that you pretty much blew off because you said you already knew about timing, pacing, and plot), but if you limit the question to first person, it all depends on who the narrator is and how they usually tell a story. (Refer to my earlier example of the difference between how a six-year-old would tell a story compared to how an eloquent speaker would do it.) It's not so much that it's not a question worth asking as it is it's a half a question by itself that can't really be asked on a general level if you're talking about first person POV.

Also, come to think of it, looking back on your first posts (which are quoted in mine), you really don't give that impression that you're asking a general question. In fact, you shoot down my initial advice by saying it doesn't fit what you're asking, as if you're asking for help on your own story, rather than actually asking a general question.

 

[txteclipse]

But the fact that my story is not updated often (while being something I know is very important to a certain type of reader) does not by default make everything that is updated more often more readable.

Eh, it actually does make their stories more accessible, and hence more readable. The two things go hand in hand.

Everyone has a breaking point when it comes to the price of being entertained. Waiting a year for one chapter is a steep price, and not many people are going to be willing to pay it. If you find those few people that will stick with your writing, then that's all fine and dandy, but you can't expect such readers, because they're simply too far and in-between.

Let me put it this way. Readability is a combination of many factors, but some primary ones are a) a good plot, b) audience relation, c) the "reading fatigue" factor (i.e. wall o' text) d) grammar, e) dependability, and f) pacing. Now: if we give a score of 1-10 in each category pertaining to a given fic, we'll get an overall idea of the readability. A higher overall score means more readable, and vice-versa.

In my opinion, your fic would score a one in dependability because it's updated so infrequently. The rest of the fic could be stellar, but the readability score is still lower compared to a fic of similar quality that is updated more.

Different readers have different tolerances for different categories, as well, which makes this even more complicated. One may be willing to wait forever for a chapter, while another will lose interest after a week. I would say the majority of people online enjoy quick access to their entertainment (just a hunch), which means your score of one in dependability hurts your fic's readability even more.

So yeah, releasing chapters with such long intervals in between does in fact make it less likely that your fic will be read and reviewed. I'm not trying to sound harsh, but it's the honest truth.

EDIT: Ninja'd to deeeaaaatttthhhhh

 

[An-chan]

Holy crap, I wrote a long answer and accidentally close this tab. This feeling can't be expressed in words. Only in onomatopoeia. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGHHHH!!!

Anyway, I was talking about how reviewing is really a pain in the ass. First, you have to read the fic with thought and look for all kinds of mistakes, and then you have to analyze and comment it with thought. I myself can't be bothered to do that very often, so I don't really expect people to do it for me. I do get overly happy when I get one, though.

Even though I don't get reviews, I still like to think people read what I write. My fics do have quite some views, and I like to believe they aren't those few-second visits where you skim the text and decide not to read it. I like to believe that people read my fics, so it doesn't really matter whether someone actually reads it or not. I feel like I'm writing for actual readers, and that's pretty much all that matters from my viewpoint.

I'm not saying that it is selfish to expect reviews. I do, however, think that it is a bit unreasonable to expect reviews when it's already against the rules to give you ones, when your fic has been buried to the 2358th page and when you yourself haven't appeared much. You need attention to get attention, if you understand what I mean. That's basically what we're trying to tell you, and we're not trying to be mean about it. That's just simply the way it is for everyone.

And, yeah, at least for me, writing reviews is a pain in the ass. I should imagine it is something far worse for people who make longer and more detailed reviews. Take Jax, for example, hers are always so thorough and detailed - not to mention wanted. (Although I don't really understand why some people ask for her reviews when they're only going to be pissed off by it and end up completely ignoring everything they bothered her to say. It's the same thing with other people who write good reviews. It pisses me off. Not that this is really related to the subject at hand or anything.)

Also, if you want reviews, there's always the PC Review Trading Center.

And not that I'm trying to change the subject or anything, but how useful is FFnet in terms of feedback? I'm feeling like revising some fics, and I'm not feeling like posting them here again so soon. So, maybe I should start conquering FFnet. Or not.

 

[Orange_Flaaffy]

Okay, but this is your own opinion. Your definition of "readability" differs from everyone else's

It doesn't actually, not from the reviewers whose feedback I actually take to heart and respect. We are really on the same wavelength, their reviews are just not all gathered in one forum or site.

and judging by the numbers of reviews other 'morph fics get, you're still getting competition.[

I gave up making FF.net a contest ages ago, not because I could not keep up if I wanted to, but because I would much rather just write what I honestly felt was lacking in the fandom themes I enjoyed :). Because years later, (when the only reader even the best once Great One of a fandom has are themselves again, or the world as we know it ends and there is no internet), it's better to have a story you enjoy reading to show for your hard work. all and all I think :). At least, in terms of FF.net, where I find it is far more common to find like minded readers than forums anyway...

Also, come to think of it, looking back on your first posts (which are quoted in mine), you really don't give that impression that you're asking a general question. In fact, you shoot down my initial advice by saying it doesn't fit what you're asking, as if you're asking for help on your own story, rather than actually asking a general question.

That's true :). But still, I do wonder more about the nature of writing a movie like montage (a very cheesy example would be the one from the Rocky movies) in a story format (regardless of pov), for what it is worth...

 

[JX Valentine]

And not that I'm trying to change the subject or anything, but how useful is FFnet in terms of feedback? I'm feeling like revising some fics, and I'm not feeling like posting them here again so soon. So, maybe I should start conquering FFnet. Or not.

Eh, it's sort of okay, I think. There's a lot of people who will post one-liners or general praise, but you still have a percentage of people who are willing to go into thorough detail the way people do on a forum or leave suggestions for improvement at all. You're more likely to get the former, but it's not unlikely to get the latter if you're patient enough. (My advice is to enable anonymous reviewing. I don't know about a lot of other people, but most of my concrit comes from people who leave unsigned reviews.)

But to tell you the truth, I think you'll be more likely to get concrit from a forum. I can't really explain why a fanfiction community's reviewers don't often leave good concrit, but FFNet's practically notorious for that sort of thing. *shrug*

Edit:

It doesn't actually, not from the reviewers whose feedback I actually take to heart and respect.

That's great, but I'm talking about the general public here. Your views don't necessarily agree with those of your entire audience.

I gave up making FF.net a contest ages ago,

...And yet, you're still wondering about reviews and whether or not you're getting something worthwile out of writing/feedback in general. (Yes, this comes from an earlier quote. If you'd like, I could go back and link to the post in which you said this.)

Also, that's not what I mean by "competition." I don't mean it's a contest. I mean it's you vying for a percentage of attention against the masses. In other words, it's not whether or not you win attention or do better than the people around you. It's whether or not you keep up with everyone around you in order to get the attention you want. It's basically like you're a puppy in a mass around a mother dog. If you're the runt of the litter, you'll get shoved out of the way by those who put themselves forward. In other words, what I'm talking about isn't so much a contest as it is just a survival-esque setting. *shrug*

 

[.Ozymandias]

Eh, it's sort of okay, I think. There's a lot of people who will post one-liners or general praise, but you still have a percentage of people who are willing to go into thorough detail the way people do on a forum or leave suggestions for improvement at all. You're more likely to get the former, but it's not unlikely to get the latter if you're patient enough. (My advice is to enable anonymous reviewing. I don't know about a lot of other people, but most of my concrit comes from people who leave unsigned reviews.)

But to tell you the truth, I think you'll be more likely to get concrit from a forum. I can't really explain why a fanfiction community's reviewers don't often leave good concrit, but FFNet's practically notorious for that sort of thing. *shrug*

I agree. It can be really hard work to get reviews on ff.net, particularly if you work in large fandoms (Harry Potter and Pokémon come to mind here), because there is simply a huge volume of stories for the writers to look at and read through (and thus review).

If you have a LiveJournal account, there are a lot of communities for various fandoms where you are more likely to get some decent concrit reviews. It could be worth exploring as an option.

 

[Astinus]

The "no revival after a month" rule has been here since the community's start. It's on nearly every forum I've been on. (And those are the "big" forums that are well-known.) So I'd like to think it shouldn't come as a big surprise.

I should always be prepared to be shocked by everything.

I was going to write more about this discussion, but you people took attention away from my eggs. *shakes fists*

*flounces*

Just, like, don't murder people, because I'm not going to be watching this unfold as it happens. So keep it clean, and hit people below the belt, because that's fun to watch/do.

 

[.Ozymandias]

Just, like, don't murder people, because I'm not going to be watching this unfold as it happens. So keep it clean, and hit people below the belt, because that's fun to watch/do.

What, us innocent people? Resort to violence? Never! Doesn't sound like us in the slightest... *hides boxing gloves*

 

[Orange_Flaaffy]

That's great, but I'm talking about the general public here. Your views don't necessarily agree with those of your entire audience.

Well, my story was never meant to suit everyone in the first place. In fact, I would say all of the fanfics I have ever written have gone out their way to not be mainstreamed (For worst or better in each case :))

..And yet, you're still wondering about reviews and whether or not you're getting something worthwile out of writing/feedback in general. (Yes, this comes from an earlier quote. If you'd like, I could go back and link to the post in which you said this.)

Yes, on forums, not FF.net. I think it is healthy to still wonder about reviews, and hope for at least one a chapter (at least in forums that allow bumping).

The "no revival after a month" rule has been here since the community's start. It's on nearly every forum I've been on. (And those are the "big" forums that are well-known.) So I'd like to think it shouldn't come as a big surprise.

Most of the forums I go to simply don't have it (it's true most of them aren't pokemon ones) or at the very least they wave it in their fanfic sections given the nature of reading and reviewing (since sometimes catching a chapter before it is a month old can be tricky if readers have other things to do, and locking after some reviewer breaks the rule could shut out a author from adding more)

It's whether or not you keep up with everyone around you in order to get the attention you want. It's basically like you're a puppy in a mass around a mother dog. If you're the runt of the litter, you'll get shoved out of the way by those who put themselves forward. In other words, what I'm talking about isn't so much a contest as it is just a survival-esque setting. *shrug*

*shrug* As far as FF.net goes I am not sure I would want to be running so fast to keep the masses dancing after my newest shiny bell. Even when I am updating fast it is about once a month. This seems to suit my target readers in the other fandoms there just fine, for what it is worth...

If you have a LiveJournal account, there are a lot of communities for various fandoms where you are more likely to get some decent concrit reviews. It could be worth exploring as an option.

I tried it a few times but for some reason posting a fanfic there always felt like spamming to me, odd I know. I guess of all the places to post fanfic, LJ feels the most 'in-crowdish' to me, even if it is not..I almost feel like someone is going to require I walk across coals before they give feedback...

Here is a good question for everyone:

What are your hopes for your best fanfic (ether written or yet to be) in the long run? After it is finished?

By the by on this subject, I have heard of a well known fandom author in another fandom who basically used the fandom versions of well known canon characters in an actual published book series and is getting awards on the one hand and flames on the other....

 

[An-chan]

If you have a LiveJournal account, there are a lot of communities for various fandoms where you are more likely to get some decent concrit reviews. It could be worth exploring as an option.

I've been searching ones for quite some time now, but all I seem to find is either slash or stupid pairings I don't care about :< Life is so very hard sometimes! I can't find a decent plaxe to grace with the awesomeness that is my fanfiction! Seesh. *frown*

Actually, my problem is that I feel like a noob for a long time. I don't feel like one here anymore, but I'm pretty sure if I start conquering new places, I'll resort back to looking other people as better and mightier beings than I am. It takes me ages to get rid of that "I'm sorry to disturb you"-feeling. I wonder what's wrong with me. That has nothing to do with this, though, so let's move on.

You know, this conversation really has gotten me thinking... In favor of reviews, maybe the one-month rule should be changed. Maybe, in case of fanfiction, the limit could be a bit longer... Because Orange Flaaffy is right, it might be hard to review the fic in time. Especially if it's a one-shot, because basically it can't be bumped, then, ever. When month has passed, no-one can thouch the thread, but it still feels stupid to re-post it. Not that I think that's a big problem or anything... I don't really have any opinion on the limit, but it might be more covenient to have a longer limit. Maybe. Or then it'll result in countless, pointless and senseless thread revivals. "OMG THIS FIC IS STILL SO GOOD!!111 9/10 like last time!!111"

I don't know.

(since sometimes catching a chapter before it is a month old can be tricky if readers have other things to do, and locking after some reviewer breaks the rule could shut out a author from adding more)

The thread doesn't get locked if the author is still active. I reckon that if the fic hasn't been updated in a year, it's concidered to be dicontinued by the author. Anyway, the rules state that if the author of the fic is still active, it doesn't get closed. Additionally, the locking can be undone by mods. Astinus is so friendly you can always ask her.

I was going to write more about this discussion, but you people took attention away from my eggs. *shakes fists*

*flounces*

Just, like, don't murder people, because I'm not going to be watching this unfold as it happens. So keep it clean, and hit people below the belt, because that's fun to watch/do.

...Or maybe not. Your contradictions confuse me, Astinus. How can we keep it clean and still hit people below the belt? Isn't that... you know... not keeping it clean?

Eggs, cows, and baby Sims. They all make for a great lunch, huh?

*shrug* As far as FF.net goes I am not sure I would want to be running so fast to keep the masses dancing after my newest shiny bell. Even when I am updating fast it is about once a month. This seems to suit my target readers in the other fandoms there just fine, for what it is worth...

I also update once in a month. That's probably why I don't really have much reviews. Now, you can go and view the sea of fics currently on the first page of PFF&P. Can you see Mama's Boy? It's not on the second page, either, and it hasn't even been a month since I updated it. It stays on the first page for about half a day, and then it swims down to the deeper waters... Any new readers I want to get I need to get during that half day. I also already have two pages of text, so my chances of getting brand new, shiny readers is getting slimmer by the minute.

You never know how many target readers you could have.

Not that updating once a month is bad or anything, but in an environment like this, the fics that are updated rarely just simply fall off the first few pages and thus escape the sight of possible readers.

This reminds me that I should update soon.

...Actually, I have no idea what kind of target group I have.

What are your hopes for your best fanfic (ether written or yet to be) in the long run? After it is finished?

Hopes...? Hmm, I don't know. I believe that my fics will get buried in the mass that is Pokémon Fanfiction here on PC like any other fic. Of course, I do kinf of hope that people would like them and comment them and maybe sometimes refer to them, but I don't think that's going to happen. I'm not really very ambitious with fanfiction, even though I am very, very ambitious with writing overall. I do this for fun, not for fame. I also do this to
1) learn English
2) learn general writing skills,
both of which will be very important for me later in life. I really want to be a professional writer, so this is useful as well as fun.
For my best fanfiction, a title currently held by Mama's Boy but that will be snatched away in not too distant future, I have absolutely no plans. So, there you have it.

 

[Orange_Flaaffy]

You never know how many target readers you could have.

That's true, I've been with FF.net and had the same penname since '98 and the speed of things still gets to me. I guess I am just old *lol* I'm not much for the race and so I don't catch some like minded people. I think the best I can do is just write (and finish!) stories and hope for the best. After all, the internet always surprises you :).

 

[JX Valentine]

Well, my story was never meant to suit everyone in the first place.

Not quite my point. To first clarify if this is a point of confusion: I did not mean everyone on the internet. I meant "everyone into Pokemorphs like you are."

That said, still, the point I was trying to make is that your opinions are your opinions. They're not everyone's, and not everyone is going to think every other fic you're comparing yours to (which is why we're having this discussion, if you'd like to go back a couple posts) is unreadable. Tons of people see tons of fic on FFNet as readable, hence why those fics get reviews. It's not your place to say every other fic is essentially unreadable (or crap). Not here, at least. If you want to say that, go review them. Otherwise, you can't really say that on a general thread because you're basically openly insulting everyone else who writes in the same basic genre. Don't be hypocritical and say you're speaking for the entirety of the people looking at the genre (particularly after accusing me of doing the same for this entire forum).

I think it is healthy to still wonder about reviews,

Wonder, yes. Expect us to review something we can't touch without getting in trouble, no. There's ways set up to get reviews -- not only the Fanfiction Announcement Thread but also the Trading Center -- so if we don't respond, your best bet is to actually update and use what we've got for you, rather than, as you were doing earlier, blaming the members of the forum on the lack of attention you're receiving. Yes, I'm being blunt here, and if I'm coming off as overly rude, I apologize. However, the fact of the matter is you're expecting a lot from us, and that's not good.

Most of the forums I go to simply don't have it (it's true most of them aren't pokemon ones) or at the very least they wave it in their fanfic sections given the nature of reading and reviewing (since sometimes catching a chapter before it is a month old can be tricky if readers have other things to do, and locking after some reviewer breaks the rule could shut out a author from adding more)

A point to glean from this is you'll want to keep in mind the rules of every community you go to. "They changed while I was gone" is not an excuse, and "that's not how it's done elsewhere" isn't either. (I'm guessing you realize this, but I'm just saying.) If you've been gone for awhile, reread the rules thread as if you're a newbie because no one's immune to how things work.

 

[Orange_Flaaffy]

However, the fact of the matter is you're expecting a lot from us, and that's not good.

It's nice to see PC being so active and talking about the topic of writing :). You've met my exceptions actually :).

If you want to say that, go review them.

I would, but certain people within the group say it for for me most of the time :). I'd rather not just be an echo...

That said, still, the point I was trying to make is that your opinions are your opinions. They're not everyone's, and not everyone is going to think every other fic you're comparing yours to (which is why we're having this discussion, if you'd like to go back a couple posts) is unreadable.

Of course all of them aren't, but many of them are, next to not just my fic, but many respected fics of people that write the same theme (aka my pov on the matter is not just mine, but I am not going to name names). It has its' own stereotypes, just as other types of fic do, and of course they don't apply to every story, but those that do outnumber those that are more seasoned to trying other elements in the basic plots (or using the stereotypes in an interesting way)...
I'm not talking about every fan of the type of fic, but rather a certain group... Of course this doesn't make those fics totally unreadable, but it doesn't get them read by the group I'm thinking of ether...
Of course there are other readers beyond this group , ' into Pokemorphs like me' but I give up trying to please them from the get go. There are plenty of other fanfics for them to enjoy if they want to and they think certain ideas are the best thing ever:). I still now and then get a new reader anyway, (without the stars needing to aline under a blue moon) and that one is fine. :). Like I said, with FF.net I'm really not about mass appeal anymore, and just don't see it as a game of survival against every other fic of its type...

Wonder, yes. Expect us to review something we can't touch without getting in trouble, no.

For the last time, I forgot/didn't know (Yes it is a mix)! :( I still think that, in the case of fanfic, it does more harm than good for everyone's stories in terms of reviews...

Yes, I'm being blunt here, and if I'm coming off as overly rude, I apologize

At this point I think so, I was trying to change the subject :\.

What are your hopes for your best fanfic (ether written or yet to be) in the long run? After it is finished?

Hopes...? Hmm, I don't know. I believe that my fics will get buried in the mass that is Pokémon Fanfiction here on PC like any other fic. Of course, I do kinf of hope that people would like them and comment them and maybe sometimes refer to them, but I don't think that's going to happen. I'm not really very ambitious with fanfiction, even though I am very, very ambitious with writing overall. I do this for fun, not for fame

Still, you could say that your writing might still get buried even after it is published. Hmmm...Of course, regardless of if you are a famous author, if you are published and sell a reasonable amount, your book would still be out there getting read *somewhere*...I use to wonder where the books I read had been and who they belonged to other the years...Online text just doesn't seem to have the same sort of staying power by nature...