Germany offers third gender option on birth certificates.

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    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/10/germany-third-gender-birth-certificate

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    This is an article I came across in sociology lecture today. I'm kind of surprised that I haven't heard of this news earlier. This has been enacted since November 1, 2013.

    To put this into a lesser perspective, you all know Pokecommunity offers similar "genderqueer" option when joining. What do you all think about this? Is this a step in the right direction or would this only encourage further discrimination?
     
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    I like the idea! You just really don't know until they start growing up a little bit, both physically and mentally. Waiting for them to decide is what I would do if I ever had a baby with both bits, as long as there wouldn't be any health complications by not fixing things right away.
     
    Well, when you add another group or bring it forth to light, you're adding a new way to discriminate within a certain criterium, in this example gender identity, that's for certain. But people learn the differences and misunderstandings get clarified, so it's all in a day's work. It's not discrimination in the sense we usually use the word, that is, treating people unfairly by some criteria we think is too arbitrary and biased.

    I don't believe there is such thing as a "third" sex or gender. Biologically there are only two, one for each sex cell. Intersex individuals have intermediary machinery between the ones required for the two biological functions. It's called a binary for a reason, for there's only one axis for one dimension.
     
    Like the article says, it does seem to be an incomplete solution, but at least there is no immediate panicking influencing a decision by the parents. Of course, also like the article mentions, there is still likely to be the pressure to choose at some point because "X" won't be allowed officially like "M" and "F" (or whatever the letters would be in German) are.

    I think that it's a step in the right direction. Certainly it's better to take this unsure step than not to take it. Discrimination may come into play, but the more something gets talked about the more informed people will be.

    I don't believe there is such thing as a "third" sex or gender. Biologically there are only two, one for each sex cell. Intersex individuals have intermediary machinery between the ones required for the two biological functions. It's called a binary for a reason, for there's only one axis for one dimension.
    But the fact is that there are children born with non-binary "parts" and that is just who or what they are. I say let these children decide for themselves when they're older whether they want to be binary or not.
     
    Then I'll clarify: there's one axis, one spectrum between the two poles. Binary is the wrong word as it implies a system of two, being only two parts, whereas I wanted to evoke a line connecting two points.

    Having an intersex child will be jarring for most people I'd imagine. I don't think there's much to make that shock any worse.
     
    But the fact is that there are children born with non-binary "parts" and that is just who or what they are. I say let these children decide for themselves when they're older whether they want to be binary or not.

    I like this.

    If parents or a child are put in such a situation in which they must choose a gender, at any point, it's still somewhat forceful imo. I don't like labels, but I think an official third gender would be beneficial. I'm kinda leaning toward that gender-less utopia now, which completely contradicts what I've said before, but that's not exactly plausible. But my point is, if you're born a certain way, you shouldn't have to choose which part of who you are to effectively leave behind.
     
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    It is an excellent idea, allow the children to form their own identities now, and this could help to promote that. I say that birth certificates should just remove the gender label completely, it has no real bearing on how one functions in society and thus should stop being such an important aspect in any way.
     
    I don't think gender should be removed lol There's a huge distinction between the "poles" for now. Though I'd like a feminine he-she only society, it aint happening, atleast not until we completely rewire ourselves to be able to produce them and they themselves will be able to actually have children, which isn't something they can do as of now.

    But I do think race should be. Change it to "human" and leave it at that.
     
    Having an intersex child will be jarring for most people I'd imagine. I don't think there's much to make that shock any worse.
    I don't doubt it. But isn't most of the talk from parents or soon-to-be parents that they'll love their children no matter what? I mean, if you're expecting and then when the baby is there you find out it has Down syndrome, would you want to change that because it's a shock and not what you were expecting? I mean, I can understand that people have hopes and expectations for their kids, but it seems a bit unfair.

    There are cases of kids having their genitalia surgically altered to fit more on the male/female binary and being raised as one gender later feeling like they don't fit with that. I'd just hate to see a child and a family go through that because they made a choice too soon.
     
    I don't doubt it. But isn't most of the talk from parents or soon-to-be parents that they'll love their children no matter what? I mean, if you're expecting and then when the baby is there you find out it has Down syndrome, would you want to change that because it's a shock and not what you were expecting? I mean, I can understand that people have hopes and expectations for their kids, but it seems a bit unfair.

    Haha, love is never as unconditional as the ideal. I'm nowhere close to being a parent, but some of my views have already been formed.
     
    Haha, love is never as unconditional as the ideal. I'm nowhere close to being a parent, but some of my views have already been formed.

    The problem is that love of a parent should be unconditional, and if they are incapable of that, someone else should be the parent.
     
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    A birth certificate is used for identification and historical purposes. It's a biological factsheet with a timestamp and "gender" has no place on it. Sex and skin color belong there as they are a part of our biology and are an important matter of record (likewise, weight, height, and so on). The story people are talking about is political faux-progressive nonsense.

    However, the story people are talking about is not the one I read. From the article, it appears this is just a way for them to identify people with genetic mutations that make a simple male/female biological classification tough to make (trisomy X, XYY syndrome, Klinefelter syndrome, Turner syndrome, etc.). Which makes this not a political thing at all and simply a sensible decision that makes recordkeeping easier and more accurate.
     
    A birth certificate is used for identification and historical purposes. It's a biological factsheet with a timestamp and "gender" has no place on it. Sex and skin color belong there as they are a part of our biology and are an important matter of record (likewise, weight, height, and so on). The story people are talking about is political faux-progressive nonsense.

    However, the story people are talking about is not the one I read. From the article, it appears this is just a way for them to identify people with genetic mutations that make a simple male/female biological classification tough to make (trisomy X, XYY syndrome, Klinefelter syndrome, Turner syndrome, etc.). Which makes this not a political thing at all and simply a sensible decision that makes recordkeeping easier and more accurate.

    The problem is that what we have considered "facts" for so long are all being discovered to be anything but. Everyone has at least 100 mutations at birth, and what we considered to be a dichotomy (gender) is also proving less so each discovery we make into genetics and biology. But in the long run, what you point out actually makes keeping gender on there a bad thing anyway, a method of sexism, basically, and isolating those who do not fit into the false dichotomy that our species once believed existed.

    The thing is, records of whether a person is male of female are inconsequential now, they provide little to no useful information and only offers a method of discrimination to most cultures. Birth certificates don't record if they are paraplegic, have any form of retardation, or even missing a finger, why put something just as inconsequential and variant as one portion of the genetic sequence? Now, if they replaced the gender thing with the entire genetic sequence, that would make sense, you can't identify a book from one random word, why would anyone think they could identify a human from it as well?

    As for historicity, those are separate records, they are often recorded from the birth certificates, but once recorded the certificate is nothing more than a means of identification. Today, hospital records are actually more accurate and inclusive for the purposes of historical records, they even list the reappearance of vestigial limbs, which are often removed soon after birth. Anything dealing with a biological organism will have too many factors, differences, and unique traits to record on one sheet of paper, in many states of the US the birth certificate is only a "supporting" document of identification now, it's used only to show that you exist, you need way more than it for any real identification.

    So I fail to see why we need gender, or sex, whatever you want to call it, on there at all.
     
    I don't know how it works in Germany, but a birth certificate can be an early form of identification for a young person before they can get a driver's license or passport or whatever other ID they may get. If who you are currently doesn't match with what your birth certificate says then that can cause you problems. Not always, and they aren't the worst problems in the world, but they're still problems.
     
    I believe this idea will pass, but possibly fail later on.
    The idea is excellent, don't get me wrong, i think someone should have the knowledge that their not considered just a boy or just a girl when someone is what you could say "both."

    The idea will fail because of parents making hasty decisions.
    What if the child later in life chooses to consider themselves one gender rather than the in-between? I think people who are assigned with the 3rd gender should have the right, after 18, or with parental consent, be allowed to legally change the gender identity on their birth certificate. (In a court of course, this would be a big deal.)

    Overall, they need to make some changes to the initial proposition, in my opinion.
     
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