Gym Leader difficulty curve

[ORegan]

Now, this might be me, but I've always wondered why the Gym leader closest to your starting town is always rather weak, especially when compared to thier other gym leader peers and Elite 4 members. The Gyms are meant to test trainer's abilities and ensure that only the strongest of them make it to the Elite 4. That part I understand, but for a Gym leader to be beaten so easily is rather shameful if said leader is suppose to be one of the best Trainers in the region. With pokemon around level 15, I start to wonder how easy it is to actually become a gym leader. :P

I've also taken into consideration that it may be intetional to help trainers get stronger. By beating more leaders, each increasing in difficulty, it gives them incentive to train thier pokemon to beat the next leader...but only one problem I see with it is that it seems kind of like a slap in the face for the lower ranked Gym Leaders who, after being regarded as one of the region's Pokemon Battling experts, have to be ordered to keep their levels down to allow new trainer's a fighting chance.

The kid in Pewter City who wouldn't let you go to Route 3 until you beat Brock sort of supports this case, although the townsfolk in said city *especially the trainer in the Gym* seem to regard Brock rather highly. It could also be possible that the lower class Gym leader's have stronger pokemon on hand, but use the weaker one's for the purpose of encourging new trainers to grow with their pokemon and all that jibberish.

thoughts?

 

[Sydian]

Considering Pewter is surrounded by pretty dumpy Pokemon to grind levels on, it's no wonder that Brock doesn't have anything higher than level 14. That's what I've always thought. And in later games, which makes this all even more mystifying, you can rematch the gym leaders and their rosters have changed and the levels have soared. Where'd all that come from?

 

[ORegan]

The fact that his pokemon change levels rapidly in so short of time seems to support the theory of the lesser leaders having pokemon in various levels to better suit new trainers...unless Brock power leveled all his pokemon or had a stash of rare candies in his pantry. :P

That's in the game at least, and it's vastly different from the anime. In the anime, when Brock and Misty accompany Ash, they take the pokemon they usually use in gym battles with them. This would, in my mind, appear to imply that the Onix, Geodude, Starmie etc. ARE their strongest pokemon, because why wouldn't you take your best with you on an adventure when you know there are three thugs trying to take your pokemon at every turn? To be fair, the levels of their pokemon rarely play a difference in the anime, because it would be boring to have half the season dedicated to Ash and company going through the grass and fighting random pokemon just to knock them out.

Also, in the pokemon adventures manga, all the Gym leader's are revealed to be very competent, and even able to put up a fight with the elite 4...including Brock....so thier abilities vary from storyline to storyline.

 

[redsaber5859]

Actually, I thought that the leaders and e4 all start at lv. 10s, and as you train your pokes, so do they and that's how their pokemon are around equal to yours, reasonable right?

 

[Amew]

It's crazy that the elite four bases this all on the fact that the challenger lives in Pallet Town.

 

[Essence]

The fact that they have low levels, and get higher and higher is basically because they rank the gym leaders in order of strength, this I understand. But in some of the anime and such, Ash verses the gyms in the wrong order sometimes. Bad Ash.

But what I REALLY don't understand is that after you beat the E4 (and for gyms as well I guess) after you keep versing them, no matter how many pokemon they defeat they never gain levels, change moves, or get any stronger. This is the exception to getting the national dex and the E4 changing, but that's beside the point. Thoughts?
​

 

[Nikorasu]

Considering Pewter is surrounded by pretty dumpy Pokemon to grind levels on, it's no wonder that Brock doesn't have anything higher than level 14. That's what I've always thought. And in later games, which makes this all even more mystifying, you can rematch the gym leaders and their rosters have changed and the levels have soared. Where'd all that come from?

Yeah, i agree with that one.

After your rematch, finding out how strong there pokemon are...

I always think new trainers that go and visit rock are COMPLETELY SCREWED!

Your not even allowed pokemon that high level unless you have Mistys badge who is even stronger!

 

[Maruno]

There is more to being a Gym Leader than having a team of strong Pokémon. It's about being able to use them properly and treat them well, while at the same instructing the other trainers who frequent their Gyms.

Gym Leaders will choose to use Pokémon that roughly match the player's strength to give them a chance. This is because there is more to battling than winning - they want to make sure the player is treating their Pokémon well and knows how to use them properly. Unfortunately, this doesn't really come out in the games, but it is implied that the player always treats their Pokémon well anyway, which may be why this assessment just comes down to winning the battle in the end.

Because of this, each Gym Leader will have dozens of Pokémon of all levels stored away somewhere. Taking care of all those, plus teaching their pupils, means they can't easily go out and develop a really strong team (which is why the Elite Four is stronger than Gym Leaders). It just so happens that the games are quite linear, which makes Brock always the first Gym Leader, which makes Brock always use his weakest Pokémon.

Having defeated the Elite Four in Gold/Silver, you can face the Kanto Gym Leaders' strongest Pokémon. As I said, though, they're still not quite as strong as the Elite Four's best Pokémon, because they don't have the time to go out and properly train them up.

 

[.Kaiser]

One thing bumps me the most.
In G/S/C and HG/SS, the Kanto leaders have Lv40-50 Pokes. Including Brock, Misty and those.
What happens when a new trainer from Pallet Town starts his adventure? Do the leaders have more, much lower level pokes in the back of the gym?

And, at that, why do all trainer have to be from Pallet? Do they give Lvl 40 Starters in Saffron?

 

[Pokémon Ranger ✩ Moriarty]

And, at that, why do all trainer have to be from Pallet? Do they give Lvl 40 Starters in Saffron?

It makes far more sense in the Anime (and the Manga as well, iirc) that Pallet Town is where all other trainers have to travel to in order to receive their Starters from The Badass Professor Oak. But in all of the games since RBY, the player seems to receive their Starter by accident - in GSC it's to fetch an egg from Mister Pokémon, in RSE it's to save Professor Useless from a Zigzagoon, in DP you're forced to use them when attacked and in Plat you're given one for being reckless. It's very much a right place, right time system.

But yes, the Gyms make no sense outside the aspect of 'it's a game centred around the key player - you', so everything is tailored to the player instead of the plot. Heck, if a couple of low-level Geodude and an Onix is all that's needed to start your own Gym, I can name approximately over nine thousand Youngsters who are fully qualified to run Brock's.

Maruno points out that there's more to a gym than just battling, which is true - but if this is the case then the Gym Leaders need to be shown doing more outside of their gym environment in the games. Crasher Wake was the most pro-active of DPPt iirc, visiting the newly established Maylene in Veilstone before assisting when a bomb is planted in the Great Marsh. The others just stick around in their gyms or at the Battle Frontier, which is hardly doing something for the community. :| Maybe if future games made Gym Leaders more out-and-about, then there'd be less of a "lol you run your Gym with Level 10's? noob!" attitude toward them.

 

[Amore]

I agree.

It's a bit like champions....

Blue doesn't count, as he's your rival aswell, so he does tons anyway. I'm sure he's probably caught every pokemon except your starter and the legendaries....

Cynthia does, well, nothing, cept give you a Togetic egg, and Prof. Elm/Mr. Pokemon do that in Johto, and that one has a better move.

Steven does a bit, in that he helps you fight in Mossdeep, then sets you up in Sootopolis.

Wallace seems pathetic in comparison, as all he does is stand at the bottom of Sky Pillar and tell you to go up.

Lance is probably the best, in that he turns up and raids Team Rocket's hideout. Even if he doesn't own a radio and was blissfully ignorant of what happened in Goldenrod.

 

[redsaber5859]

Lol, again read my post, let's say everybody started around the same time? Or maybe, the levels aren't real, they are a feature of the game to make you evolve and stuff, but truly all pokes are the same strength, levels are but a number to determine moves and evolution

 

[Digital Wings]

There is more to being a Gym Leader than having a team of strong Pokémon. It's about being able to use them properly and treat them well, while at the same instructing the other trainers who frequent their Gyms.

Gym Leaders will choose to use Pokémon that roughly match the player's strength to give them a chance. This is because there is more to battling than winning - they want to make sure the player is treating their Pokémon well and knows how to use them properly. Unfortunately, this doesn't really come out in the games, but it is implied that the player always treats their Pokémon well anyway, which may be why this assessment just comes down to winning the battle in the end.

Because of this, each Gym Leader will have dozens of Pokémon of all levels stored away somewhere. Taking care of all those, plus teaching their pupils, means they can't easily go out and develop a really strong team (which is why the Elite Four is stronger than Gym Leaders). It just so happens that the games are quite linear, which makes Brock always the first Gym Leader, which makes Brock always use his weakest Pokémon.

Having defeated the Elite Four in Gold/Silver, you can face the Kanto Gym Leaders' strongest Pokémon. As I said, though, they're still not quite as strong as the Elite Four's best Pokémon, because they don't have the time to go out and properly train them up.

I really like this theory!