Help with UU and RU team

[rob_thijs]

Hi there folks,

I could use some help to improve my UU and RU team.

UU

Machamp
Assault Vest
No Guard - Adamant
172 HP - 252 ATK - 84 SPE
- Dynamic Punch
- Knock Off
- Stone Edge
- Bullet Punch

Porygon-Z
Choice Scarf
Adaptability - Modest
4 DEF - 252 SpA - 252 SPE
- Tri Attack
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Trick

Nidoqueen
Black Sludge
Sheer Force - Bold
248 HP - 240 Def - 20 Spe
- Sludge Wave
- Earth Power
- Flamethrower
- Stealth Rock

Flygon
Life Orb
252 ATK - 4 SpD - 252 SPE
Levitate - Jolly
- Outrage
- U-turn
- Earthquake
- Roost

Jirachi
Leftovers
252 HP - 232 SpD - 24 SPE
Serene Grace - Careful
- U-turn
- Wish
- Body Slam
- Iron Head

Mega Blastoise
Blastoisinite
236 HP - 252 SpA - 20 Spe
Rain Dish - Modest
- Rapid Spin
- Scald
- Dark Pulse
- Aura Sphere

RU

Dragalge
Choice Specs
200 HP - 252 SpA - 56 Spe
Adaptability - Modest
- Draco Meteor
- Sludge Bomb
- Scald
- Focus Blast or Shadow Ball

Kecleon
Assault Vest
172 HP - 252 Atk - 84 SpA
Protean - Adamant
- Sucker Punch
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- Ice Punch

Durant
Choice Band
252 Atk - 4 Def - 252 Spe
Hustle - Jolly
- Iron Head
- Superpower
- Crunch
- X-Scissor

Mega Pidgeot
Pidgeotite
4 Def - 252 SpA - 252 Spe
Keen Eye - Timid
- Hurricane
- Heat Wave
- Roost or Defog
- Hidden Power Grass

Seismitoad
Rocky Helmet
200 HP - 252 Def - 56 SpD
Water Absorb - Relaxed
- Stealth Rock
- Scald
- Earthquake
- Toxic

Cresselia
Leftovers
252 HP - 104 Def - 152 SpD
Levitate - Calm
- Psyshock
- Moonblast
- Moonlight
- Thunder Wave

Let me know what you think, all feedback is welcome

 

[PlatinumDude]

Retaliate is a bad option in general because it's normally weak and not a good move to be locked into. If Durant misses the Retaliate after an ally got KOed, it won't maintain the boost. Here's a better Durant set:
-X-Scissor/Baton Pass
-Iron Head
-Superpower
-Crunch
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spe
Item: Choice Band
Ability: Hustle

Stick to Leftovers on Seismitoad, as Water Absorb recovery may not be enough.

Special Eelektross is generally preferred over the physical variant, as its special moves pack more power:
-Volt Switch
-Flamethrower
-Giga Drain
-Knock Off/Thunderbolt
Nature: Quiet/Modest
EVs: 252 HP/4 Def/252 SAtk
Item: Assault Vest

 

[rob_thijs]

Retaliate is a bad option in general because it's normally weak and not a good move to be locked into. If Durant misses the Retaliate after an ally got KOed, it won't maintain the boost. Here's a better Durant set:
-X-Scissor/Baton Pass
-Iron Head
-Superpower
-Crunch
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spe
Item: Choice Band
Ability: Hustle

Stick to Leftovers on Seismitoad, as Water Absorb recovery may not be enough.

Special Eelektross is generally preferred over the physical variant, as its special moves pack more power:
-Volt Switch
-Flamethrower
-Giga Drain
-Knock Off/Thunderbolt
Nature: Quiet/Modest
EVs: 252 HP/4 Def/252 SAtk
Item: Assault Vest

OK Thanks.
What item should I give Cresselia if I don't have leftovers for her? Or switch Seismitoad with Gastrodon who gets recover but no entree hazard.
Thought Retaliate would be a good move for revenge kill, cause Durant is insanely fast.
If I switch Eelektross to Special I have 3 special attackers and only 1 physical with not enough coverage. Can you advice another physical pokémon that fits in this team?

And what is a better option Blastoise or Milotic. Flygon or Haxorus?

 

[PlatinumDude]

OK Thanks.
What item should I give Cresselia if I don't have leftovers for her? Or switch Seismitoad with Gastrodon who gets recover but no entree hazard.
Thought Retaliate would be a good move for revenge kill, cause Durant is insanely fast.
If I switch Eelektross to Special I have 3 special attackers and only 1 physical with not enough coverage. Can you advice another physical pokémon that fits in this team?

And what is a better option Blastoise or Milotic. Flygon or Haxorus?

The problem with using Retaliate on Durant is Hustle. If it misses, you've missed your chance to revenge kill at double the power, and Retaliate reverts to 70 base power. For more consistency, it's best to forgo Retaliate altogether and use a better coverage move.

Alternative physical attackers to turn to in RU are Emboar, Escavalier, Doublade, Druddigon and Kecleon:

Emboar:
-Flare Blitz
-Superpower
-Wild Charge
-Sucker Punch/Head Smash/Sleep Talk
Nature: Adamant/Jolly (latter for Sleep Talk and Choice Scarf only)
EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spe
Item: Life Orb/Choice Band/Choice Scarf (latter for Jolly only)
Ability: Reckless

Escavalier:
-Megahorn
-Iron Head
-Drill Run
-Pursuit/Knock Off
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 248 HP/252 Atk/8 SDef
Item: Assault Vest

or
-Swords Dance
-Megahorn/Iron Head
-Rest
-Sleep Talk
Nature: Careful
EVs: 248 HP/8 Def/252 SDef
Item: Leftovers

Doublade:
-Swords Dance
-Iron Head
-Shadow Claw
-Shadow Sneak
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 212 HP/252 Atk/44 Spe
Item: Eviolite

Druddigon:
-Outrage/Dragon Claw
-Sucker Punch/Dragon Claw
-Gunk Shot
-Fire Punch
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 236 HP/252 Atk/20 Spe
Item: Life Orb/Choice Band/Assault Vest
Ability: Sheer Force

or
-Stealth Rock
-Dragon Claw
-Sucker Punch
-Fire Punch
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 236 HP/252 Atk/20 Spe
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Rough Skin

Kecleon:
-Knock Off
-Drain Punch
-Sucker Punch
-Rock Slide/Ice Punch
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 172 HP/252 Atk/84 Spe
Item: Assault Vest
Ability: Protean

 

[skyburial]

I'd scrap the Seismitoad and go for this:

Gigalith @ Salac Berry
- Autotomize
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Stealth Rock
Nature: Jolly
EV's: 252 Atk/252 Speed

After one Autotomize this will outspeed most things. Sturdy will ensure that you get at least one Autotomize off, and salac berry takes that boost even further. Then you can clean up shop afterward. Works best as a late game sweeper. Outspeeds Speed Boost Scolipede.

 

[PlatinumDude]

I'd scrap the Seismitoad and go for this:

Gigalith @ Salac Berry
- Autotomize
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Stealth Rock
Nature: Jolly
EV's: 252 Atk/252 Speed

After one Autotomize this will outspeed most things. Sturdy will ensure that you get at least one Autotomize off, and salac berry takes that boost even further. Then you can clean up shop afterward. Works best as a late game sweeper. Outspeeds Speed Boost Scolipede.

Okay, this set has plenty of problems.

Gigalith is very weak to common types in Water, Grass, Ground, Fighting and Steel. Even at +3 Speed, it's still outsped by common Choice Scarf users like Mienshao. Scolipede can simply Protect to gain another Speed boost and outspeed Gigalith again.

Just because a Pokemon has access to Autotomize doesn't mean it should use it. There are better Speed-boosting sweepers out there, tbh.

 

[rob_thijs]

I only use seismitoad to switch in when I predict an earthquake on Dragalge, a fire punch or other physical fire move on durant or an electric move on pidgeot. And it can set up rocks, Gigalith has to much weakness to be usefull on this team. I've got 2 physical attackers already and they can do a good job at it.

 

[Nah]

I'm not sure why you guys are bringing up Scolipede and Meinshao in regards to the Gigalith set. Scolipede is BL and Meinshao UU, and Gigalith is gonna be used on the RU team, so it doesn't need to worry about those 2.....

The real problem with the Gigalith set is that it's terribly weak to priority, which I believe that there's enough of in the lower tiers to make things problematic.

 

[skyburial]

I only use seismitoad to switch in when I predict an earthquake on Dragalge, a fire punch or other physical fire move on durant or an electric move on pidgeot. And it can set up rocks, Gigalith has to much weakness to be usefull on this team. I've got 2 physical attackers already and they can do a good job at it.

Right on mate, good on ya for sticking to what you like.

Scolipede can simply Protect to gain another Speed boost and outspeed Gigalith again.

An unboosted Scolipede at level 50 does not match Gigalith's +3 Speed (which is 210 if you run the calc). It can Protect, but that leaves Gigalith room to run another Autotomize, and is predictable.

The real problem with the Gigalith set is that it's terribly weak to priority, which I believe that there's enough of in the lower tiers to make things problematic.

Agreed, that is its biggest fault.

 

[rob_thijs]

Right on mate, good on ya for sticking to what you like.

Thanks for your input anyway.
What do you think of my teams in general? Does it need some improvements on moves or items or is everything fine?
I replaced Eelektross with Kecleon (protean, so it can be any type and has sucker punch) . And replaced u-turn on Pidgeot with HP Grass, to much Ground, rock and water in the RU tier.

I kept my UU team but I'm still not sure on Flygon, can Haxorus do the job better? WHY DOES FLYGON NOT HAVE ACCES TO D DANCE!!??
However it does not have acces to Roost or other healing. I have Jirachi, but I can't rely on him to much.

 

[skyburial]

I kept my UU team but I'm still not sure on Flygon, can Haxorus do the job better? WHY DOES FLYGON NOT HAVE ACCES TO D DANCE!!??
However it does not have acces to Roost or other healing. I have Jirachi, but I can't rely on him to much.

Of the two choices I'd pick Haxorus, because he has no 2X weaknesses, and more raw power, with only a small sacrifice in speed. However, since your team is mostly physical right now, I'd recommend a Hydreigon instead, which pairs really well with your Jirachi and Nidoqueen:

Hydreigon @ Life Orb
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Dark Pulse
- Flash Cannon
- Earth Power

Regarding your question about Milotic earlier, if you're looking for access to recovery and a variety of viable sets over your Blastoise, it's definitely the way to go. You'd be losing out on a spinner, but your team doesn't have any glaring vulnerabilities to Stealth Rock and has 3 pokes that are unaffected by Toxic Spikes, so you'd just need to be mindful of Spikes setters.

Here are some popular variations on Milotic these days:

Milotic @ Life Orb
Ability: Marvel Scale
EVs: 252 HP/200 Atk/56 Def
Adamant Nature
- Coil
- Recover
- Aqua Tail
- Return

I'm particularly fond of this one because it plays outside of Milotic's normal pocket, and Aqua Tail hits really hard and appreciates boosted accuracy from Coil. Makes for a pretty awesome bulky attacker.

Milotic @ Leftovers
Ability: Marvel Scale
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Recover
- Ice Beam
- Dragon Tail

Milotic @ Life Orb
Ability: Competitive
EVs: 88 HP / 252 SpA / 168 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Protect
- Recover

 

[PlatinumDude]

Of the two choices I'd pick Haxorus, because he has no 2X weaknesses, and more raw power, with only a small sacrifice in speed. However, since your team is mostly physical right now, I'd recommend a Hydreigon instead, which pairs really well with your Jirachi and Nidoqueen:

Hydreigon @ Life Orb
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Dark Pulse
- Flash Cannon
- Earth Power

Regarding your question about Milotic earlier, if you're looking for access to recovery and a variety of viable sets over your Blastoise, it's definitely the way to go. You'd be losing out on a spinner, but your team doesn't have any glaring vulnerabilities to Stealth Rock and has 3 pokes that are unaffected by Toxic Spikes, so you'd just need to be mindful of Spikes setters.

Here are some popular variations on Milotic these days:

Milotic @ Life Orb
Ability: Marvel Scale
EVs: 252 HP/200 Atk/56 Def
Adamant Nature
- Coil
- Recover
- Aqua Tail
- Return

I'm particularly fond of this one because it plays outside of Milotic's normal pocket, and Aqua Tail hits really hard and appreciates boosted accuracy from Coil. Makes for a pretty awesome bulky attacker.

Milotic @ Leftovers
Ability: Marvel Scale
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Recover
- Ice Beam
- Dragon Tail

Milotic @ Life Orb
Ability: Competitive
EVs: 88 HP / 252 SpA / 168 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Protect
- Recover

Coil Milotic is terrible because its Attack is just too wimpy to make use of the Attack boosts; not only that, its physical move pool is downright pathetic. The only set Milotic should ever run is the defensive one; the offensive one is only good in VGC/doubles formats, due to the prevalence of Intimidate there.

 

[skyburial]

Coil Milotic is terrible because its Attack is just too wimpy to make use of the Attack boosts; not only that, its physical move pool is downright pathetic.

Terrible? Not entirely. But definitely lenient toward defensive builds, which is why a physical Milotic should place emphasis on bulk (thus benefitting from Coil), and doesn't suffer from decreased priority or low accuracy in this set. Dragon Tail and Iron Tail provide decent alternatives for coverage moves as well.

The only set Milotic should ever run is the defensive one; the offensive one is only good in VGC/doubles formats, due to the prevalence of Intimidate there.

Look dude, this isn't true of any Pokemon other than maybe Wobuffet which has like 4-6 moves it can use. In that sense, it literally has one thing it can do: counter heavy hits and encore boosting moves that try to take it down. It's naturally pigeonholed as a utility Pokemon.

Intimidate sees plenty of usage in singles as well from Gyarados, Landorus-T, Mega Manectric, Salamence, Staraptor... the list goes on. It's a common ability in all tiers, and also in Battle Spot where you have Mawhile still running rampant.

UU specifically sees it in Arcanine, Krookodile, and Scrafty.

 

[PlatinumDude]

Terrible? Not entirely. But definitely lenient toward defensive builds, which is why a physical Milotic should place emphasis on bulk (thus benefitting from Coil), and doesn't suffer from decreased priority or low accuracy in this set. Dragon Tail and Iron Tail provide decent alternatives for coverage moves as well.



Look dude, this isn't true of any Pokemon other than maybe Wobuffet which has like 4-6 moves it can use. In that sense, it literally has one thing it can do: counter heavy hits and encore boosting moves that try to take it down. It's naturally pigeonholed as a utility Pokemon.

Intimidate sees plenty of usage in singles as well from Gyarados, Landorus-T, Mega Manectric, Salamence, Staraptor... the list goes on. It's a common ability in all tiers, and also in Battle Spot where you have Mawhile still running rampant.

UU specifically sees it in Arcanine, Krookodile, and Scrafty.

There's also a huge difference between Milotic's Attack and Special Attack. 60 Attack is rather terrible, as I already mentioned (even with a +1 boost), while 100 Special Attack is rather decent. Therefore, Milotic should stick to special moves only.

Another reason why Competitive Milotic isn't used at all in singles is because there are other better offensive UU Water Pokemon, like Mega Blastoise, Cloyster, Starmie and (Mega) Sharpedo; these Pokemon have better offensive presence and better offensive move pools.

 

[skyburial]

There's also a huge difference between Milotic's Attack and Special Attack. 60 Attack is rather terrible, as I already mentioned (even with a +1 boost), while 100 Special Attack is rather decent. Therefore, Milotic should stick to special moves only.

Another reason why Competitive Milotic isn't used at all in singles is because there are other better offensive UU Water Pokemon, like Mega Blastoise, Cloyster, Starmie and (Mega) Sharpedo; these Pokemon have better offensive presence and better offensive move pools.

Are we jousting here or making suggestions for teams? The OP wanted to know some options and reasons for building a Milotic.

Blastoise, Sharpedo, and Cloyster all serve different purposes than a Competitive-boosted Milotic. Shell Smashed Icicle Spears a substitute does not make. You could make a case for Starmie if it's set up in a bulky build because it gets access to Recover. The OP strikes me as having a conservative approach and a mind for the long game, and a special attacker with recovery options definitely fits the bill. I'm into the mindset that there are multiple viable options for this team, not a single right answer.

Team building is not a zero-sum game.

 

[Polar Spectrum]

Most of those look pretty decent imo; I was gonna recommend a Samurott somewhere honestly, but it seems with the pokes you already have slated it might not be as valuable as them. Only thing I can think of is possibly adding another utility move to Cresselia somewhere over having 2 attacking moves given its 100% bulk investment. Moonblast and Psyshock both seem really helpful, but a screen or something on Cressellia seems like it might help the whole team more, maybe. What you have now could also still be splendid though :D

And on that speeding Gigalith set - I know it sounds downright dumb, but I've seen this, firsthand, ruin opponents who discount it. It may be better in doubles given its appreciation for a teammate to force an opponent to consider, but you will never and I mean never get an opponent in either battle format who PREDICTS an opposing Gigalith to be able to outspeed them in 1 turn. And it happens. That rock slide will hurt, it can flinch, and if you don't plan on taking it out quickly, you won't be able to KO before it gets a few moves in. Like someone above mentioned though; priority doesn't play nice with it however. Gigalith's natural bulk keeps it from being too scared of most aqua jets, sucker punches, mach punches, and ice shards that aren't too powerful if it's not already around half health or so however.

(PS this set isn't even mine, seriously I've just seen it actually work)

Here's a specific example of just how the speeding gigalith can function-
V3BG WWWW WWX8 87YQ

Its natural bulk let it take the banded Staraptor bb, and the burned gyarados waterfall - setting up autotomize. It finishes of Gyara with rock slide, predicts the need for speed boost from scolipede to outspeed it, autotomizes again to outspeed scolipede, ohko's with rock slide, and takes the bulky flareon down with an ohko from rock slide.

 

[rob_thijs]

Thanks for the feedback! I had to make some changes cause Jirachi is banned to OU and Mega Pidgeot is banned to UU.

So instead of Machamp I have Entei now with adamant nature (This was necessery cause I didn't want to have an 3x weakness to fairy)
Sacred Fire, Extremespeed, Stone Edge and Iron Head. And switched Jirachi with Umbreon as my special wall. With moves Wish, Toxic, Heall Bell and Foul Play.

Mega Pidgeot changed with Rotom-Fan with the moves Volt Switch, Air Slash, Trick and Hidden Power Grass.

 

[Nah]

Oh yeah that makes me think, if you're gonna run 2 attacks on Cresselia, another way to do it it is to run a SubCalmMind set (use Moonblast/Psyshock/Sub/Calm Mind). If not, what Polar said about adding another support move is probably a good idea. bulldoze is another option on Entei to still hit Rock types (Sacred Fire's roasting Fairies pretty good anyway) and slow down the opponent's pokes.

Also make sure that your Rotom-Fan is using an Air Balloon for maximum swag

 

[Polar Spectrum]

Real quick - are you assault vesting that entei? And watch the ice weakness stacking, not sure which of the pokemon in the OP you're using all together, but fan rotom adds one to that too. ^^ Given, adding Entei does help with that. Especially if that is a dapper vest set.

Good luck and share your results of this with us!

 

[rob_thijs]

Real quick - are you assault vesting that entei? And watch the ice weakness stacking, not sure which of the pokemon in the OP you're using all together, but fan rotom adds one to that too. ^^ Given, adding Entei does help with that. Especially if that is a dapper vest set.

Good luck and share your results of this with us!

Rotom Fan is my replacement for Mega Pidgeot in RU. I have 2x weakness to ice, but I know Dragalage can take at least 1 ice beam cause of it's special def. And seismitoad can take Ice Punches.

For my UU team I think replacing Flygon with Mega Pinsir and Mega Blastoise with Milotic. I think it I can only use Mega Pinsir for some days and after that Smogon will bann Mega Pinsir to BL or ban Pinsirite in UU.