I just thought of something involving 'the first Pokemon' argument.

[Giratina ♀]

We all argue and squabble over who was the first Pokemon - Mew, or Arceus? Which is the origin of species?

And yet I don't think it's ever occurred to anyone that maybe, just maybe, Arceus is not a Pokemon?

Think about it here... the Pokedex, our only source for classifying what is what in the Pokemon world, was invented by a bunch of mortal men named after trees. Mortal men, those capable of making mistakes. When we ascend up to the mythological level, Arceus is God. Nobody ever classified [insert godly figure here] as a really powerful animal, did they? So what stops the Professors from being wrong, and mislabeling Arceus as a Pokemon?

My point here is, people can be wrong. The Pokedex isn't the Bible, and it isn't always right (you know, since it was made by mankind and stuff).

Commence the flaming.

 

[Ice_Emperor]

Thata's actually pretty insightful. Makes sense to me.

 

[Sebastien Loeb]

Evidently when he had been projected and invented Mew, he was not thought that in a second moment a few years later a was planned '' other god of the Pokémon '' as Arceus, thinks both only and exclusively a problem of imagination of the planners.

 

[nssfleahedgehog]

I remember it said somewhere in Diamond/Pearl that Arceus hatched from an egg. Then it created all existance. I don't know of many Gods that hatch from eggs. And Pokemon hatch from eggs, so logically Arceus is a Pokemon. And if it wasn't, how could PokeBalls work on it? And, how could it be in the Pokedex?

Anyway, hopefully information on Arceus' role in existance will become lucid when it is revealed in Japan with movie #12.

 

[Giratina ♀]

And if it wasn't, how could PokeBalls work on it? And, how could it be in the Pokedex?

Didn't Ash catch Brock in a Pokeball in one of the early episodes? And, like I said before, the 'dex was coded by a bunch of mortal men capable of making mistakes, not an Alakazam. How do we know someone didn't mis-identify it as a Pokemon?

 

[Spinor]

This is the best theory I've ever heard... if only the series wasn't called:

"Pokemon"

And the electronic encyclopedia wasn't called:

"Pokedex"

And the officialness of Arceus being a Pokemon wasn't stuck in stone by:

"Nintendo"

Just think. If men in white making the series "Pokemon" tried to add in a "Pokemon" that wasn't a "Pokemon", would it make sense?

 

[Dominus Temporis]

My personal belief is that Arceus came first, created some/most of the legendaries, and then Mew as a "template" for all other species, which is why it supposedly has the DNA of every species and why it can learn so many moves.

And the "Pokédex is wrong" argument works both ways- how does anyone know that Mew has the DNA of every Pokémon? Where did they get the DNA from Kyogre, Groudon, or Rayquaza to test this? Or the golem trio and Regigigas? Or Deoxys, or Porygon, or Manaphy/Phione? Most people wouldn't even know of the legendaries outside of legends, so how would they know if Mew had their DNA?

 

[processr]

I don't know of many Gods that hatch from eggs.

Boom, research.

It is an interesting theory, but I don't see why the Mew vs. Arceus debate needs to even happen. Where does it explicitly state that Mew was the first Pokémon? Mew is purported to be the ancestor of all Pokémon, which, to use a Biblical analogy, puts it in a similar role to Adam and Eve, while Arceus' origins lie in several deities of Asian traditions, mostly creation deities. This would set Arceus apart from Mew completely, akin to God and his creations.

 

[Legobricks]

Bravo, ma'm, you win two free Internets for purporting an intelligent theory that's not a wall of text.
This is now archived under "Cassino's view of the 'real' Pokemon world".

Boom, research.

Oh you.

 

[Ninja Caterpie]

=D I love this.

It's just like calling God a human. =D Even if He might look like one, He's still God. :\

Arceus is only a Pokemon because it's not a there's nothing else for it to be. =D The labcoat trees don't want to admit that they don't know what it is, so they'll just call it a Pokemon. xD

Arceus can be caught in a Pokéball because it's made in the same way as Pokemon, but it doesn't have to BE a Pokémon. Arceus, for all we know, might have made Pokémon in likeness to himself. =D And gave them the same melt-into-energy-on-contact-with-Apricorn-radiation genes as himself. Simple. =D

 

[Feathing]

I love this kind of threads ^^

FIRST: I think Arceus IS a Pokemon. He is classified as one in the Pokedex, can learn moves like any other Pokemon, hatched from an egg, can be catched and the most interesting thing, can be modify by the acting of humans on him! I mean, do you know any god in any mythology who can be modified if anybody put a simple plate on him? I don't think so.. Anyway, Arceus is called 'The Pokemon God' It may be a God for Pokemons, not for humans.
SECOND: Yes, humans can be wrong. Ergo, the Pokedex can have mistakes. But you have to consider that all the Pokedex says it's true, because Nintendo put it in the first place. Nintendo wouldn't give us wrong information. I know there a lot of things that are taken as a real facts although they begin with "The legend says..." And this point leads me to:
THIRD: The problem with Arceus and Mew is nothing more than a proof that the real humans who make mistakes are not Proffesor Oak, Birch, etc... Nintendo itself makes horrible mistakes like this and there a lot more of mistakes that lead to eternal discussions in any forum (Why Kanghaskan is born with a baby inside? Why can a trainer catch a Porygon, who is a 'virtual' Pokemon, ergo, doesn't live in the real world? And so..)
It's good to discuss this, but as Sebastien_Leob said, this is a problem of the creators, not of the Pokedex.
FOURTH: Yes, How could they know Mew has DNA from all the other PokemoN? It is strange and unlikely to be true. I think there are two possible solutions.
A- Mew has the DNA of all the common Pokemon. They don't count the Legendaries. If that's the case, it's not impossible to have the DNA of all the regular Pokemon and compare them with Mew's.
B- May be it's a very accepted theory based in the fact that Mew can learn all the TM's. If he can learn every single attack, he must have all the abbilities the other Pokemon have. But this theory leads us to another problem. How would they know Mew can learn every attack? They didn't catch it and tried to teach him all the TM. So....


I hope my comment is legible. I don't speak english. I also hope someone agree with me! XD
FOURTH: I think that it's said that Mew has the DNA of all

 

[Rioku_Zanketa]

Well, they said existance was created when it was born, which means there was a form of pre-existance of sorts(leading me to believe that the term "existance" is a slightly bit diffrent in the universe of pokemon.) And that Mew thrived in that pre-existance

which connnects the the theory that the answer lies right there in the beginning; No one ever said that mew came from an egg, yet Arceus did. Perhaps,.......Mew is a mother...? possible, especially since it has the DNA of all pokemon. Mew is only but a playful little thing, so perhaps when it gave birth to Arceus, it went on its own way while Arceus flaunted its own power by making existance and whatnot.

 

[Underoos]

You bring up a good point...I think Arceus is a Pokemon and for me (just because Mew was from the 1st generation) I think that Mew is the god or whatever you want to call it.

 

[kingofjokers]

if you really want to know which pokemon came first ill tell you PIKACHU its the one who started it all market wise but otherwise if you are talking like 1st of everything in the pokemon universe ima say mew mostly 1st legend ever or celebi which created mew because he traveled time you know what i quit

 

[Giratina ♀]

Hooray, I won two free Internets for purporting an intelligent theory that's not a wall of text. =D AND I HAVE ALSO BEEN ARCHIVED UNDER CASSINO'S 'REAL' VIEW OF THE POKEMON WORLD? Oh, happy day!

Feathing, while you have a point with the Plate concept, if a lowly Pokemon can do it (evolution stones, yup yup) then surely Arceus could. Also, on your little thing about Mew, I think the Lab Trees just assumed Mew had DNA of every Pokemon; maybe it does if Arceus made it and isn't a Pokemon, and maybe it doesn't and Tajiri and friends were just being brain-dead.

@kingofjokers: O-kaaaay... but the first Pokemon ever to enter anyone's mind was probably Caterpie or Weedle or something.

 

[nssfleahedgehog]

Didn't Ash catch Brock in a Pokeball in one of the early episodes?

?????

I believe this kind of stuff only happens in stupid gag TV show commercials on old Kids' WB. I remember a commercial where Snorlax's PokeBall malfunctions, Ash goes "inside" it, and is greated by the Holiday Sock, who had stolen Ash's missing socks.

Gosh, what America does to the anime is cruel.

Boom, research.

Oh, you're no fun anymore.

----------------

Ah, I just remembered I read somewhere that the first Pokemon to be patended (copyrighted or whatever), was Mew. So, I guess Mew is quite actually the first Pokemon in a sense.

 

[JX Valentine]

If I may, to stir up even more controversy and get people to think objectively...

was invented by a bunch of mortal men named after trees. Mortal men, those capable of making mistakes.

Technically, so was the Bible. Why do you think there's so many versions of it? (And yes, each version differs slightly in wording, which actually makes a big difference when you try to go and interpret it.) Besides, weren't the Gospels, a staple of the Christian religion, written by men -- Jesus' apostles and not God? And then, of course, there's the holy books of numerous other religions -- for example, the Hindu Vedas. (It's not possible to say that God gave the word of those to their respective people as well, given that these tend to contradict the views upheld in the Christian Bible.) Let's also not forget the fact that humanity, when writing about itself and its own society, has the unfortunate tendency to exaggerate, so unless you really think the world was literally created in a week, you'll want to tread lightly in comparing the Bible to any other writing by man on the basis of accuracy.

Point is, to use this logic alone isn't enough to question Arceus' classification. Of course, the 'dex itself has been known to exaggerate, but in that case, you'll want to just look at the 'dex itself, not who wrote it.

Also...

Nobody ever classified [insert godly figure here] as a really powerful animal, did they?

We're going to have to broaden the definition of a "Pokémon" in the first place, given that not all Pokémon are animal-like. It's possible that the definition of Pokémon can be broadened to cover general entities, which means Arceus could very well fit under this definition as well.

Also, in an egocentric sense, we do define God in human terms -- He, Father who art thou in Heaven, et cetera. So, you could say we do simply because we're egotistical enough to apply our definitions to an entity that's supposed to be above them.

Otherwise, inclined to agree with AdvancedK9 here. Because I'm no fun.

 

[Azonic]

The PokeDex obviously only reads the data of different Pokemon. I mean, you don't see a human with a PokeDex entry, do you? Therefore Arceus must be a Pokemon. 3:

 

[Rioku_Zanketa]

Hooray, I won two free Internets for purporting an intelligent theory that's not a wall of text. =D AND I HAVE ALSO BEEN ARCHIVED UNDER CASSINO'S 'REAL' VIEW OF THE POKEMON WORLD? Oh, happy day!

Feathing, while you have a point with the Plate concept, if a lowly Pokemon can do it (evolution stones, yup yup) then surely Arceus could. Also, on your little thing about Mew, I think the Lab Trees just assumed Mew had DNA of every Pokemon; maybe it does if Arceus made it and isn't a Pokemon, and maybe it doesn't and Tajiri and friends were just being brain-dead.

@kingofjokers: O-kaaaay... but the first Pokemon ever to enter anyone's mind was probably Caterpie or Weedle or something.

Mew has the tranform attack under its wing. In short, it is an omni-potent cat with the ability to assume the role of all that it has created. Seems right to me.

And to throw off ditto attacks, ditto is obviously an animated pile of goo with genetic makeup-copying abilities.

 

[PokemonMichael]

im a man of mystery... if arceus created mew, then who created arceus?

this is a hard question though