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Is a Sound Type even a good idea?

  • 67
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    • Seen Jun 16, 2024
    So, I image a lot of you have heard the idea floated before that if Pokemon were to add another type, it should be the "Sound" type, since there are a lot of Pokemon and moves already that are based around this theme.

    In my hypothetical game that I'm currently writing an outline for, I've created a fair number of new sound-based Pokemon, and I've been intending since very early on to have the final Elite Four member have a sound-themed team as one of the few bosses whose theme isn't a single type, and I'm beginning to wonder if I'm being remiss in not going all the way and actually creating the Sound type. Four of the six new sound-based Pokemon I've come up with are Normal type mainly so that they can have STAB for most sound-based moves, a fifth one could easily have the Sound type added to it if it existed; and the thing that really pushed me over the edge into considering this question is that I'm thinking of making a regional variant of the Flygon line where Trapinch is Bug/Ground and Flygon is Bug/Dragon, and I'm wondering if the most appropriate typing for Vibrava is in fact Bug/Sound. (Since its thing is that its wings are undeveloped and grant only limited flight, so it instead uses them to generate sonic wave attacks, hence the "vibrate" in its name.)

    Thing is though, I kind of don't want to do that. Part of the reason for that is, I will admit, that I don't feel up to designing and balancing a whole new type; I feel comfortable coming up with some types for Sound to be super effective against (more on that later), but designing the other three-quarters of a new type chart feels beyond me. The other reason, however, and the one that I feel is more objectively defensible, is that I feel that creating a Sound type would step on a bunch of existing mechanics.

    The first and most obvious (IMO) problem is that Toxtricity already exists. Every other existing sound-based Pokemon could either have the Sound type added to it (eg Kricketune), have it replace one of its types, usually Normal (Exploud, Audino, and even Noivern could arguably have its Flying type replaced with Sound), or can do without actually being Sound type in my opinion (Primarina and Kommo-o, although I do think that these somewhat strengthen the argument against making a Sound type); but Toxtricity is a very heavily sound-themed Pokemon (ie if it's not Sound type, nothing is) that doesn't seem like either of its types are disposable.

    But, let's suppose for argument's sake that Toxtricity's Punk Rock ability is sufficient association with sound, making it effectively an honorary Sound type even if it doesn't actually have the type - like how Dhelmise's ability makes it an honorary Steel type. And let's also suppose that I'm not making any new Pokemon that have the same problem as Toxtricity. (For the record, I have ONE, the sixth one referenced above, a Fairy/Dark type based on a banshee.) The REAL problem is, what do you do with all of the existing sound-based MOVES that are not Normal type?

    Not counting status moves whose type doesn't really matter, Z-moves, and a Shadow move from Pokemon XD, by my count there are eight such moves: Bug Buzz, Clanging Scales, Disarming Voice, Eerie Spell, Overdrive, Snarl, Sparkling Aria, and Torch Song. What to do with these moves? Are they to become Sound type, and no longer be STAB moves for the Pokemon that use them? I'll say that I think that Snarl could be made Sound type instead of Dark type, and most of the rest are signature moves - but two of them are signature moves of Pokemon that I would actually want to use as part of the formalized roster of sound-based Pokemon, specifically Toxtricity and Kommo-o. Even if it's just Bug Buzz, Clanging Scales, Disarming Voice, and Overdrive, that's still enough to be a major problem in my view. What's the point of putting emphasis on sound-based Pokemon if you're also going to hurt them by making Overdrive and Clanging Scales no longer STAB moves? Especially Overdrive; the relevance of some of these moves and Pokemon is perhaps debatable, but not that one IMO. Toxtricity to me is one of the holy trinity of existing sound-based Pokemon, along with Exploud and Noivern.

    It seems as though Sound is more suited to being a characteristic of moves layered on top of their type, rather than a whole type on its own. You could make all of those moves deal dual-type damage like Flying Press, but I think that would be an unelegant solution. I am in favor of creating more moves like Flying Press, but this would be too much; it would make almost half of all sound-based attacks be dual type (I count nine that are Normal type, only slightly more than the eight that are not), and so would be practically self-evident as an unideal solution.

    What I'm thinking of doing instead to give some love to sound-associated Pokemon, particularly ones that learn Normal-type sound-based attacks that they don't get STAB for (like Noivern), is create a new held item (let's call it the Megaphone for simplicity) that has the following two effects:
    -It boosts sound-based attacks by 50%, *IF* the holder does not already get STAB for that move. So for example Toxtricity's Boomburst would get a 50% boost in addition to the boost from Punk Rock, but Overdrive would be unaffected.
    -It makes sound-based attacks used by the holder deal double damage against Psychic, Flying, and Fairy type Pokemon; my picks for what sound should be super effective against. (Which types are used here isn't really relevant to my main point; just substitute your own picks if you disagree.)
    -Perhaps it could also make sound-based status moves never miss or something, for whatever that's worth.

    I expect that within the context of a single battle, this item would on balance be less good than a Throat Spray, since this boosts sound-based attacks by 50% while a Throat Spray boosts ALL special attacks by 50% provided you use a sound-based move once; however, since Throat Spray is a consumable item, the Megaphone would probably be more appealing to use during a playthrough.

    In conclusion, basically the point of this thread is that I'm looking for validation that creating this new held item is a better idea than creating a full-fledged Sound Type, or more generally that the latter is unnecessary even if I am putting a bunch of emphasis on sound-based Pokemon. What do you all think? Do you agree with my reasoning?
     
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  • 1,225
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    • Age 29
    • he/him/his
    • Seen Jun 12, 2024
    These are all great questions and I think they stump a lot of people when trying to theorize and balance this type. I do think a workaround for existing sound moves could be for some of them to retain their type AND their Sound move properties, but keep their current type's effectiveness. I don't know how useful the type would be. I do think the type chart is in desperate need of a shake up but I think there are probably better options.
     
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    Leans towards Megaphone being a better solution. Involves a lot less work and balancing. Seems a little too strong between the damage boost and super-effective damage. Points out two things:
    1. Sylveon and Pixelate + Hyper Voice. Technically gets STAB through the ability, not inherently. Would it get STAB from the item too? Also gives it even better coverage on the move.

    2. Round. Typically disregards this. Stinks in singles. Remains questionable in doubles too. But, the basic strategy in doubles:
    - Lead with Accelgor. Use Round.
    - Bring Primarina or Sylveon (or even Porygon-Z). Use Round. Immediately acts after Accelgor.

    Becomes an 80 power move for Primarina/Sylveon, before STAB, ability boosts, and items. Attacks immediately after Accelgor, an extremely fast Pokemon. Hits a ton of Pokemon super-effectively between its standard typing and the Megaphone ones.
    ________

    Imagines Boomburst being quite powerful on the Toxtricity mentioned too. 140 + STAB + 30% = ...273 power, right? Hitting both opponents (possibly) super-effectively? Yikes.
     
  • 1,199
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    I don't think so. Sound could have been a nice new type when there were only a few gens of Pokémon and you had like... Whismur, Chimeco, and Jigglypuff (not even Fairy yet) lines, not much else. But now that we've got more Pokémon that are centered around the sound theme but are already dual-typed it seems too late. Not to mention that Sound moves are spread across multiple different types.

    At this point, it's like trying to make "Ball/Bomb" or "Light" new typings. It would be an unnecessary mess to retype existing Pokémon and moves, so they're better as special Properties, rather than new types.
     
  • 67
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    • Seen Jun 16, 2024
    1. Sylveon and Pixelate + Hyper Voice. Technically gets STAB through the ability, not inherently. Would it get STAB from the item too?
    No, that would count as already having STAB. The same goes for Primarina with Liquid Voice. The whole point of the "only if it doesn't already have STAB" clause was to prevent excessive multipliers like this.

    2. Round. Typically disregards this. Stinks in singles. Remains questionable in doubles too. But, the basic strategy in doubles:
    - Lead with Accelgor. Use Round.
    - Bring Primarina or Sylveon (or even Porygon-Z). Use Round. Immediately acts after Accelgor.

    Becomes an 80 power move for Primarina/Sylveon, before STAB, ability boosts, and items. Attacks immediately after Accelgor, an extremely fast Pokemon. Hits a ton of Pokemon super-effectively between its standard typing and the Megaphone ones.
    I was at first confused as to why you thought an 80 power STAB move was such a big deal, before looking up exactly how Round works and seeing that the subsequent ones in fact become 120 power. Again though, the power boost would not apply on top of Pixilate and Liquid Voice, so the only difference the Megaphone adds to this combo is the super effectiveness.

    Perhaps the extra super effective types should only apply if the move is Normal type, since that was the main intent behind it. However that brings me too...

    Imagines Boomburst being quite powerful on the Toxtricity mentioned too. 140 + STAB + 30% = ...273 power, right? Hitting both opponents (possibly) super-effectively? Yikes.
    Punk Rock is kind of a niece middle ground between having STAB and not having STAB, so maybe the power boost should be negated by Puck Rock as well as by STAB.

    As to the super effectiveness. Again, the main point of that part was too buff Normal type sound moves for Pokemon like Exploud and Noivern, that are heavily sound-themed yet cannot deal super effective damage with their sound-based attacks. (And in the case of Exploud, as a pure Normal type it can't deal STAB super effective damage period.) Boomburst, however, is a very high power move whose premise, presumably, is that its high power is balanced by the fact that it can't deal super effective damage to anything. (Also, to be fair, very few Pokemon can learn it, unlike say Hyper Beam which can be slapped onto a lot of things via TM.) With Boomburst in mind, maybe the Megaphone should only give a 1.5x boost against designated types, instead of 2x?
     
  • 67
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    • Seen Jun 16, 2024
    Becomes an 80 power move for Primarina/Sylveon, before STAB, ability boosts, and items. Attacks immediately after Accelgor, an extremely fast Pokemon. Hits a ton of Pokemon super-effectively between its standard typing and the Megaphone ones.
    ________

    Imagines Boomburst being quite powerful on the Toxtricity mentioned too. 140 + STAB + 30% = ...273 power, right? Hitting both opponents (possibly) super-effectively? Yikes.
    Okay, how about this. What if instead of dealing 2x damage to Psychic, Flying and Fairy, it had a different, not as extreme effect against each of them, based on the reason why I thought it should be strong against those types to begin with.

    -Against Psychic types, it adds a 30% flinch chance; because they're vulnerable to having their senses overwhelmed and their concentration broken by big loud noises.
    -Against Flying types, it lowers their Speed and/or Attack by one stage; because sound damage is sort-of adjacent to "wind damage" and it knocks them out of the air.
    -Against Fairy types, it deals 1.5x damage; because Fairy is the best type and the one which it would be most useful to be strong against.

    Also, again, perhaps Puck Rock should negate the psudo-STAB the same as having STAB does. Or maybe just raise the 1.3x boost to 1.5x, instead of combining both.

    Does that sound more reasonable?
     

    Locoflyer

    HazyWonderAlice
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    I think if done well it can be cool, Xenoverse does it well me thinks
     
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