Islam, Christianity and Judaism.

[icomeanon6]

(I'm not going to put his entire post in a quote box, but let me just make it clear that I'm replying to Agent Zero.)

I think you're making a mistake in focusing entirely on dogma. The point of the thread is not that all three religions are equally valid, the point is that their ideas of God stem from the same place in history. That place in history was Abraham and his descendants. Saying that Jews, Christians, and Muslims don't believe in the same God is like saying that Greeks and Romans didn't believe in the same gods. While they had different names, and modified stories in some cases, the Romans worshiped the same deities as the Greeks. You can't necessarily state that two different religions believe in a different god/different gods just because the two religions have different ideas of morality.

 

[CP3]

Hey what a concidence, I'm a muslim too.

 

[Zet]

Excuse me? Islam does not order killing each other! Especially not another Muslim! Please don't make such accusations towards Muslims unless you are absolutely sure.

Oh, and the Jews believe that God has a son, but they don't think it's Jesus. I mentioned before that it was a Prophet whose name in Arabic is Uzair.

I'm pretty sure Jesus was stoned and nailed to a cross by the Jewish nation, if they weren't told to slay each other, Jesus wouldn't have been stoned and nailed

 

[s0nido]

The Jews kept killing every prophet that came to them. Not because they were told to kill each other. Where do people get such sick ideas from? What God would order the killing of innocent people? I know that my God doesn't.

 

[Zet]

well Muslims kill people if they want women to have rights and we get these things from the bible

 

[icomeanon6]

Let's keep it civil, here. The point of this thread is not to judge between religions or lifestyles, but rather to discuss their fundamental relation in history.

 

[doesn't matter]

I'm not going to say that, no. Because

a) I'm not well-versed in the Islamic faith or the Qur'an to know what God has instructed.
b) You would be putting words in my mouth.

However, it would not surprise me if that were that case. God is very different between the old and new testaments. I'm pretty sure that somewhere in the Qur'an it says something like "Our Allah and your Allah are one".

Sorry, I didn't mean to do that, I was just trying to make a point upon how vastly different the religions are.

Excuse me? Islam does not order killing each other! Especially not another Muslim! Please don't make such accusations towards Muslims unless you are absolutely sure.

Oh, and the Jews believe that God has a son, but they don't think it's Jesus. I mentioned before that it was a Prophet whose name in Arabic is Uzair.

Talk about misaccuations. Drifloon, that is so not true! Im Muslim and and i KNOW slaying another Muslim is the top of all wrong deeds.

Oh yeah, in Islam slaying another Muslim is terrible.

But that's just killing another Muslim. Those who oppose Islam are free game ;)

If you are referring to Islamic radicals and terrorists, they are heretics by every definition of the word. Genuine Muslims don't condone their actions. The same applies to those who kill innocents in the name of Christianity or Judaism. I don't know anywhere near as much about Islam as an actual Muslim does, but I do know that they consider murder to be a grave sin. I think you should do some research on the matter before talking about it any more. I suggest starting by looking up the Islamic view of Jesus. While they definitely don't say that Jesus is the son of God, they still treat him with a very high amount of respect.

If they are such heretics and radicals, then where are they getting their Qur'an quotes from, the quotes that provide support for their actions? Yes, a lot of Muslims do not condone the violence, but then there are a lot who do. And the one's who do are a lot louder with their voices and their actions. Furthermore, one's who don't condone violence are willfully ignorant of the passages in the Qur'an and do not help change Islam at all.

Oh I have done research, don't worry about me. Yeah, Jesus was a smart guy, it's hard not to treat him with respect - but everything that Mohammad wrote canceled out what Jesus said - heck, what he wrote later on cancels out what he wrote initially (the Islamic doctrine of naskh [abrogation]).

Drifloon completely misquoted TRIFORCE's post. Completely. He brought up the misaccusation that God ordered Muslims to kill each other. TRIFORCE never said anything about a Muslim God ordering murder. He came up with that all on his own.

We all believe in the same God, even though we see him in different forms. The trinity was invented by that meeting held a few hundred years after the death of Jesus. But if you look through the Bible, it says that there is only one God. It says that in many places. And I think that anything conflicting with that fact in the Bible is false.

The Bible was changed in many ways, after all. So were the Torah and Psalms. In fact, the only holy book revealed by God that remains unchanged is the Qur'an. It does not have any changes in it, and anyone that has attempted to change it failed miserably. Allah himself promised in the Qur'an that he would preserve the Qur'an and that it would never be changed. It still hasn't been. So I think that to quote for the truth, you should quote the Qur'an.

9:5 When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. If they repent and take to prayer and render the alms levy, allow them to go their way. God is forgiving and merciful.

QFT. I hardly came up with it by myself.

In order to keep this post mostly on-topic, Christianity in comparison is a religion that preaches peace and love. Judaism too forbids killing, and even though in the Torah there are records of violence, this barely compares to the content the Qur'an contains within, plus they're directed at a specific group of people for a specific time.

Heck, the amazing thing about Islam is that it doesn't really have much in common with any religion. Most religions (and civilisations) around the world share numerous principles, but Islam does not.

 

[s0nido]

THE IDOLATERS! WE HAD TO KILL THE IDOLATERS LONG AGO!
The inhabitants of Makkah 14 centuries ago were worshipping idols, and we had to drive them out because they did the same to us. And in the EXACT same verse, it said, right after the verse you just mentioned:

...But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give Zakah, let them (go) on their way. Indeed, Allah is forgiving and merciful. (Qur'an 9:5)

I am really keeping my frustration inside because I've heard this argument against Islam many times. Many times. But right after what you have just quoted, Drifloon, there was a 'but'.

Oh, and verse 9:6 says:

"And if one of the idolaters seek protection from you, grant him protection till he hears the word of Allah, then make him attain his place of safety; this is because they are a people who do not know. (Qur'an 9:6)"

You were saying? I think that Allah can back up anything he says.

 

[Zet]

THE IDOLATERS! WE HAD TO KILL THE IDOLATERS LONG AGO!
The inhabitants of Makkah 14 centuries ago were worshipping idols, and we had to drive them out because they did the same to us. And in the EXACT same verse, it said, right after the verse you just mentioned:

I am really keeping my frustration inside because I've heard this argument against Islam many times. Many times. But right after what you have just quoted, Drifloon, there was a 'but'.

Oh, and verse 9:6 says:

"And if one of the idolaters seek protection from you, grant him protection till he hears the word of Allah, then make him attain his place of safety; this is because they are a people who do not know. (Qur'an 9:6)"

You were saying? I think that Allah can back up anything he says.

how could idolaters drive a big religious group out who has lots and lots of rocks? also what about protecting women? was that allowed or were they stoned as well?

 

[s0nido]

At the time, the Muslims were very small and were not very powerful. They had to escape Makkah and flee to Madinah. Then they returned and conquered Makkah in a bloodless invasion. And, no, women, children or old men were not allowed to be killed in any wars against the idolaters.

 

[CP3]

Oh yeah, in Islam slaying another Muslim is terrible.

But that's just killing another Muslim. Those who oppose Islam are free game ;)

Wrong, Islam forbids killing an innocent soul.

 

[Zet]

nobody said it was an innocent soul

 

[s0nido]

It's true. Anyone who opposes Islam through physical force by torturing other Muslims is definitely free game. But physical violence must only be used as a last resort. War causes loss of lives, and Muslim leaders should be wary of that. Some soldiers could go berserk and kill civilians too. So war isn't something that Muslims should be declaring very often.

Anyway, that wasn't the point here...What are the similarities between the three religions? We still haven't determined whether Christians, Jews and Muslims believe in the same God. What I think is that we all believe in the same God, but how we see him is different. The Muslims say that the Christians are associating partners with God by saying that he has a son. But the Trinity is a complicated topic, something I don't understand fully. Someone care to explain it?

 

[Honest]

This Thread is really starting to heat up. Everybody, calm down. Youll get this thread closed.

Muslims do not belive in killing each other, i know that for a fact.

 

[Netto Azure]

Ok, why can't we agree that the three Abrahamic Monotheistic Religions believe in the Same God?
Seriously the fact that Islam refers to the Torah and Bible as Holy Books (But "corrupted" after the passage of time) and that half of the Christian Bible is based of Jewish Books (The Old Testament) should be enough to prove that. =/

 

[Ruphire]

We actually were reading about this in our World Studies books. And it does state that we do believe in the same God just that, Muhammad was it? Was the Muslims final prophet.

 

[Honest]

We actually were reading about this in our World Studies books. And it does state that we do believe in the same God just that, Muhammad was it? Was the Muslims final prophet.

That is correct. See people. even the books say it1

 

[s0nido]

This thread was heating up? It was just debate off-topic. Which could get this thread closed. Keep on-topic guys.

Anyway, yes, it's true, and I did say that the Qur'an has mention of the other three holy books and mention of the Christians and Jews believing in God.

And no, Muslims do not believe in killing each other, and anyone else, for that matter. Islam has strict war conventions that say that you can't kill women, children or the elderly, or anyone not directly involved in the war. Also, you cannot deny the enemy water or chop down trees to deny food. In other words, the 'scorched earth' policy is banned. Fight fairly or don't fight at all.

Is everyone settled about the belief in God thing? We believe in the same God as the Christians and Jews do, and we also believe in many of the same prophets. Now, what about the founding father of the three religions, Abraham (Arabic: Ibrahim)? What religion did he follow? Islam, Christianity or Judaism? My vote goes to Islam, as he did build the first mosque on Earth.

 

[Netto Azure]

Now, what about the founding father of the three religions, Abraham (Arabic: Ibrahim)? What religion did he follow? Islam, Christianity or Judaism? My vote goes to Islam, as he did build the first mosque on Earth.

Well that's up for debate I'm sure. I would prefer if we accept that he didn't follow any one religion but instead Founded one in which became very diverse. =D

 

[doesn't matter]

THE IDOLATERS! WE HAD TO KILL THE IDOLATERS LONG AGO!
The inhabitants of Makkah 14 centuries ago were worshipping idols, and we had to drive them out because they did the same to us. And in the EXACT same verse, it said, right after the verse you just mentioned:

I am really keeping my frustration inside because I've heard this argument against Islam many times. Many times. But right after what you have just quoted, Drifloon, there was a 'but'.

Oh, and verse 9:6 says:


You were saying? I think that Allah can back up anything he says.

Christians are considered idolaters by Muslims. I mean, we do have statues and pictures everywhere of Jesus, and though we don't consider ourselves idolaters, it's easy to see why others would. Plus the whole "we won't convert or submit ourselves to Islam" thing.

My bad, I shouldn't have used a quote so often referenced by Jihadists everywhere. Here, have some more.

[9:29] You shall fight back against those who do not believe in GOD, nor in the Last Day, nor do they prohibit what GOD and His messenger have prohibited, nor do they abide by the religion of truth - among those who received the scripture - until they pay the due tax, willingly or unwillingly.

[9:73] O you prophet, strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern in dealing with them. Their destiny is Hell; what a miserable abode!

They drove Mohammad out because he was set on converting them. He then came back and destroyed them. No, not without bloodshed or whatever, cause the idea is just absurd that they "convinced" them to convert given the history of the spread of Islam.

At the time, the Muslims were very small and were not very powerful. They had to escape Makkah and flee to Madinah. Then they returned and conquered Makkah in a bloodless invasion. And, no, women, children or old men were not allowed to be killed in any wars against the idolaters.

Spetember 11 anyone?

THE IDOLATERS! WE HAD TO KILL THE IDOLATERS LONG AGO!

conquered Makkah in a bloodless invasion

bloodless invasion

It's true. Anyone who opposes Islam through physical force by torturing other Muslims is definitely free game. But physical violence must only be used as a last resort. War causes loss of lives, and Muslim leaders should be wary of that. Some soldiers could go berserk and kill civilians too. So war isn't something that Muslims should be declaring very often.

Anyway, that wasn't the point here...What are the similarities between the three religions? We still haven't determined whether Christians, Jews and Muslims believe in the same God. What I think is that we all believe in the same God, but how we see him is different. The Muslims say that the Christians are associating partners with God by saying that he has a son. But the Trinity is a complicated topic, something I don't understand fully. Someone care to explain it?

Last resort after the three choices offered:
1. Converting the people, which if they refuse,
2. Submitting the people to dhimmi status, which basically means forcing them to live as second-class citizens, and if they mess that up,
3. Death.

Complicated is an understatement, considering that barely anyone understands it. All 3 are equal, separate but one in the same. The simplest way I can explain it is that Jesus is a reflection of the Father in a mirror, and the Holy Spirit is ... the "love" (ego, self-recognition?) that flows between them.

[9:30] The Jews said, "Ezra is the son of GOD," while the Christians said, "Jesus is the son of GOD!" These are blasphemies uttered by their mouths. They thus match the blasphemies of those who have disbelieved in the past. GOD condemns them. They have surely deviated.

So you still say we have the same God even though the Qur'an condemns us for our beliefs?

This Thread is really starting to heat up. Everybody, calm down. Youll get this thread closed.

Muslims do not belive in killing each other, i know that for a fact.

Yes, everyone knows that Muslims don't believe in killing each other. To make this easier for you to understand, I'll compare it to Jews and Christians, who do not believe in killing anyone.

Ok, why can't we agree that the three Abrahamic Monotheistic Religions believe in the Same God?
Seriously the fact that Islam refers to the Torah and Bible as Holy Books (But "corrupted" after the passage of time) and that half of the Christian Bible is based of Jewish Books (The Old Testament) should be enough to prove that. =/

Cause they're not. The religions are completely different.

We actually were reading about this in our World Studies books. And it does state that we do believe in the same God just that, Muhammad was it? Was the Muslims final prophet.

oh I see. this book is clearly the authority.

This thread was heating up? It was just debate off-topic. Which could get this thread closed. Keep on-topic guys.

Anyway, yes, it's true, and I did say that the Qur'an has mention of the other three holy books and mention of the Christians and Jews believing in God.

And no, Muslims do not believe in killing each other, and anyone else, for that matter. Islam has strict war conventions that say that you can't kill women, children or the elderly, or anyone not directly involved in the war. Also, you cannot deny the enemy water or chop down trees to deny food. In other words, the 'scorched earth' policy is banned. Fight fairly or don't fight at all.

Is everyone settled about the belief in God thing? We believe in the same God as the Christians and Jews do, and we also believe in many of the same prophets. Now, what about the founding father of the three religions, Abraham (Arabic: Ibrahim)? What religion did he follow? Islam, Christianity or Judaism? My vote goes to Islam, as he did build the first mosque on Earth.

Considering the amount of violence propagated by those inspired by Islam, I'd definitely say that there are many that do believe in killing others. And this won't change so long as there are people like you who continue to deny and remain ignorant of the teachings in the Qur'an, so for now the loudest of your faith will continue to encourage and support violence. What's worse is that Islam hasn't changed for centuries, and it's actually forbidden to re-interpret the texts.

Islam may believe in the same prophets, but the teachings of the Qur'an override what they said, so it isn't that big a deal.

I thought Mohammad founded Islam. How could Abraham have built the first mosque if Islam was founded at least 100 a few thousand years after Abraham's time?