Joe Biden allegations, #MeToo and the political arena

[VisionofMilotic]

I decided to begin a conversation about this here on PC after learning that new women have come forward citing misconduct by the former vice-President since the accusations by Ms. Flores.

Joe Biden has been accused of inappropriately touching and handling 4 women, including a teenage student who claimed he stroked her knee after she told him her story of sexual assault survival.

He has defended himself, asserting that any touching by him was affectionate, nothing more.

It can be googled readily enough, but these are the sources I personally read if you like.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2019/03/31/us/politics/joe-biden-flores.amp.html

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehil...rward-because-im-disappointed-in-my-party?amp

https://www.google.com/amp/time.com/5563364/joe-biden-unwanted-contact-women/?amp=true

https://www.google.com/amp/s/theslo...joe-biden-of-unwanted-touching-1833764095/amp


Do you believe that Biden did nothing wrong? Or do you believe the allegations by Lucy Flores, Amy Lappos, Caitlyn Caruso and DJ Hill are serious and credible?

It has been a tumultuous last few years and sexual assault has been a major topic of discussion with the Kavanaugh hearings, Abaas Malik, Robert Beck and the Trump Access Hollywood Tape. We even revisited allegations against former President Bill Clinton during the 2016 presidential debates, and in recent days heard Biden's apology to Anita Hill. Now this.

Also if Biden enters the 2020 primary do you think he can overcome said allegations and still successfully represent women's issues as a potential democratic candidate? Does he deserve the opportunity? Go forth and debate!

 

[Nah]

pretty sure that there's high quality video/photos of him touching women going back years

can't go find them right now, but unless I'm wrong on the video/photo thing, the answer to the "serious and credible" question is yes

 

[Her]

I would like at least one presidential candidate to be held accountable for their unwanted sexual advances. That's really all I want to say on that.

 

[VisionofMilotic]

The internet is definitely littered with video and photos of Biden massaging women on the head and shoulders, whispering into their ears, leaning on them, holding their waist in settings that are supposed to be professional. He even put a woman who was a complete stranger on his lap in a diner when he toured Ohio. My initial reaction looking at some of these images was Wtf is wrong with you dude? Especially the C-span video where he's stroking the hair of one a McConnell's grandkids during the photo shoot. https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4752448/biden-mcconnells-granddaughter

In some situations people that Biden interacted with said they didn't feel violated and thought it was innocent play, Chris Coons' daughter and Stephanie Carter I believe. They are the owners of their own body and best budges of their comfort zone, so I will defer to them if they say that he wasn't bothering them-- it is not my call to make, its theirs. However, the same rule goes when people say they *do* feel you are crossing the line and don't want contact--I have been there myself and gotten attention I did not ask for and then heard it justified after my protests.

Lucy Flores didn't just look visibly uncomfortable to me, she has made it clear to us that she was not fine with it, she was apalled, and has asked for an apology. She said that she didn't want him taking her by the back of the head and kissing her. It isn't for Biden to say that *he* didn't think there was anything wrong with what he was doing. It isn't just his body, it is somebody else's and this is a boundary that everyone needs to be able to set for themselves. If he is doing these things nobody should tell Lucy how she should react, that she wasn't really violated, he's just "hands-on-kinda-guy."

I don't see any reason to distrust the people who have come forward, and I think it is serious. I feel bad for anyone in that situation.

Politically I think Biden could be a liability. It is 2019, and this should not really a laughing matter.

 

[Akio123]

^You can add Ash Carter's wife to the list.

I agree that Biden is more or less a liability at this point. Look, we have a crop of amazing candidates for 2020, I don't understand why people think Joe Biden is the ONLY answer to defeating Donald Trump. The problem is though we are at a point where every viable's vulnerabilities are considered too problematic for the progressive wing of the party.

 

[VisionofMilotic]

This is becoming a nightmare. 3 more women have come forward against Biden. Their names are Sofie Karasek, Vail Kohnert-Yount and Ally Coll.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.th...oe-biden-accuser-accusations-allegations.html

Biden was never my first choice for the 2020 race since I was looking for a progressive, and right now there's a ton of folks I would be much happier to pull the lever for in a primary over him like Bernie, Tulsi, Wayne Messam, Andrew Yang, Elizabeth Warren, Jay Inslee, Marianne Williamsom.

Now that a number of women have made accusations against Biden however this is bigger than my personal objections to his record. I worry that there is too much dirt there for him to be a strong opposition to beat Trump next year. We don't need another scandal-ridden candidate like Hillary competing for the nomination. We saw the outcome of that in 2016 when we let someone with that many skeletons in her closet become the nominee. It totally blew up in the DNC's face, and we can't afford that with another 4 years of Trump. I don't see the Creepy Uncle Joe image going away, and I hope Biden does the wise and right thing by not running.

 

[colours]

one really important thing I want to bring to light here: although this is super early, biden's poll numbers have barely budged, if at all.

granted, these are very early polls and very limited data so far, but to say (or imply) that these accusations would sink Biden is being unfortunately presumptuous

the reason being is that Biden, being a figure that has been in the political eye for decades, already has pretty much near national name recognition. this means that anyone who has ever developed an opinion on him will likely stick to that opinion bar anything super damning like idk, punching a baby on live TV or something.

that said, there seems to be an interesting generational gap of sorts. i feel like much younger democrats/progressives would be much more bothered by this than older democrats would be, which is... interesting, to say the least. but that's just my theory.

i also find this take by Nate Silver pretty interesting, as well. you would think upon first glance that Biden symbolizes the "establishment", but in reality because of association with Obama among other things, he's actually more popular with the general electorate it seems than the establishment.

i feel like this is because party elites don't want to associate themselves with the old democratic party which is what they feel like biden symbolizes. the broader electorate probably cares more about electability, though. cool, funny uncle joe and all that.

we'll see if all of this changes if/when he announces his run.

 

[gimmepie]

Given who the current president is, I don't think allegations like these matter as much to the American populace as we'd all like to think when it comes to voting time.