6th Gen Lack of Post Game Activity

[Sandslash Fan]

I beat the Triple Battle at the Battle Maison, but I plan to go back after breeding up a few teams to try out. Right now I am focusing on trying to get a shiny Sandslash.

 

[Mithel_Celestia]

The games are surprisingly missing in post-games, but not as less as the original Red and Blue, but they were the first so they don't count. Previous games have had at least two towns left for you to visit post game or an extra feature to do (e.g. Contest, Pokeathlon, etc.) and some legendaries to catch. X and Y only brought 6 catchable legends in the game but those are still to few, especially since only two can be caught post-game. Not disappointed though. They did bring new online features, Wonder trade and Friend Safari, so those are maybe enough to accommodate for the lack of post-game.

 

[Austin1395]

I think bw2's large amount of post game content might have spoiled us. I just hope that they are starting a trend with 3rd instalments with bw2. I would be more than happy to keep shooting pokemon another 40 bus or so each time they do this.
Think about the future though.
What we have now is a constant internet connectivity/ EV training mini games/ happiness-friendliness mini game wrapped up at our finger tips anywhere and anytime.
We got 700+ 3d pokemon models.
We wasn't even sure we was gonna get customization for clothes, and many ppl doubted but we got that.
We got a new type.
We got mega evolution which is not just your typical poke blocks, puffin crap that will change from game to game altering stuff, this is a game changer for several pkmn from now on.
We got, yet small, 3d character cut scenes.
Man, with all that going on and dialed in well at that, just wait for the 3rd installation ( if we get one because eli goulding said anything could happen ) I bet to somes surprise and somes reassurance we will get maybe the close to perfect and best pokemon game to date guys

I realize how much new stuff we got, and, I do love all of it. The new Pokemon, the Megas, the 3D, everything is just fantastic. But, even with all of that, X and Y just seems to be, lacking, in a lot of aspects if you ask me. The lack of post game things to do, the lack of new Pokemon, I also find it...odd, that they chose some of the Megas that they did, it's also odd that the Elite Four doesn't get increased levels after beating them for the first time when they have in literally every other game. There's just something very off about X and Y, and not just the lack of post game activity. It almost seems like they have set themselves up for a sequel or something similar. But, I won't get into that here since that isn't what this thread is for.

 

[Xander Olivieri]

I realize how much new stuff we got, and, I do love all of it. The new Pokemon, the Megas, the 3D, everything is just fantastic. But, even with all of that, X and Y just seems to be, lacking, in a lot of aspects if you ask me. The lack of post game things to do, the lack of new Pokemon, I also find it...odd, that they chose some of the Megas that they did, it's also odd that the Elite Four doesn't get increased levels after beating them for the first time when they have in literally every other game. There's just something very off about X and Y, and not just the lack of post game activity. It almost seems like they have set themselves up for a sequel or something similar. But, I won't get into that here since that isn't what this thread is for.

Its hard to set up for a sequel when the main story closes off the way X and Y did. This is the first time we had direct closure at the end of the main story. The lacking you feel is probably because of of all the new things we did get. Its hard to just add things in before its too much so GF went the route of adding a few things. I mean compared to the past, this is the most we've ever gotten in one game.

I think it stands out that I disagree with the lack of content. All of the main titled games are like this. There was nothing to do once you've beaten the game as not much new opens up after the Elite 4. All you have left is 1) Capture Pokemon. 2) Explore the end game dungeons (there are always end game dungeons). 3) Participate in battle facilities (Tower, Black Tower/White Tree, Station, Chateau, and Maison.) 4) Do mini games (Contests, Super Contests, Musicals, Pokemon Amie).

If you don't do these things, then yes there is no end game content. The games are supposed to be enjoyed at a casual pace. Played for a few minutes to an hour at most. We choose to speed through the games and complete them within a few days. When you do that there really isn't anything else to do because we just rushed through it.

Other than Gold and Silver and by extension HG/SS no none of the games added any more than this. Half of it doesn't even qualify as Post game content as its available before you beat the game and can be completed before the game ends. Once you beat the games all that's pretty much left is to start building teams for competitive play to bide time until the next game comes out.

 

[fenyx4]

(hopefully, I can change the instances of "ALL CAPS" to italics at some point and spoiler certain sections of this from becoming too long... Here we go!)

Major wall of text, so beware! (I tried spoiler-tagging some of it, but I'm not sure whether more needs to be spoiler-tagged?)

Short version - XY post-game is arguably lacking and certainly could've been improved, but it shouldn't be criticized TOO harshly...

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After completing the main story and beating the Elite Four and becoming the Kalos Region Champion, you're really only left with doing the Looker Bureau missions, which, they are fun, and I did love them, there aren't a whole lot and they aren't too time consuming. So, what do we do after that? Challenge our rival every single day, collect a sweet heart, and do some work for the hotel in Lumiose? In previous games we got things like the Bug Catching Contest, the Pokeathlon, the PWT, and other fun things to do to occupy us while we await for our next great Pokemon adventure. So, what about you guys? Are you disappointed in the lack of post game activity? What would you have liked to see? And, how are you passing the time in your X/Y?

I remember during the pre-release period of XY when some of the "rumors" floating around were that "XY have essentially zero post-game content"; I really don't know why the post-game of XY is getting criticized so harshly (although I haven't actually played the game(s) yet, so there's that. >.<)... I mean, on the battling scene, you have the:
* Battle Maison (Kalos's Battle Tower equivalent)
* Battle Chateau (arguably a poor man's Battle Tower since the Pokemon levels don't seem to equal yours (this is mainly an issue since you can just out-level and essentially wipe the floor with everyone); the highest I saw on Bulbapedia was Diantha's Pokemon in the Level 60 range (which becomes Level 80 range with the highest Writ of Challenge))
* Battle Institute (modified rules, but if it's the same case as the Unova Battle Institute which pulled from the Battle Subway Pokemon pool, this one should pull from the Battle Maison Pokemon pool... At least it's somewhat fairer/more challenging since your own Pokemon and opposing Pokemon are all auto-leveled to Level 50).
* Inverse Battles (I'll have to examine this more, but if opposing Pokemon match your own Pokemon, it seems like a decent go-to area for battlers, even though the interesting mechanic essentially makes it a "Battle Tower mode with its own building")

Johto's Bug-Catching Contest seems like adequate post-game activity, but you're essentially just "catching Pokemon in a specific area" for comparison, and the prizes aren't *that* great to warrant repeat entries, IMO (at least in GSC).

Pokemon Black 2/White 2's Pokemon World Tournament is essentially "Battle Tower with Gym Leaders and Champions (plus some other oddballs)", so if the Original Poster is not satisfied with the Kalos Battle Maison, then Unova's PWT shouldn't count, IMO. However, it still seems like a decent post-game activity due to the Rule of Cool factor with all the cameos, and it at least provides as much engagement as the Battle Tower/Battle Subway and even provides rental Pokemon (also, it seems to innovate a little with that neat mechanic where you and your foe are forced to temporarily swap 1 Pokemon for your upcoming battle, which differs from Battle Factory's Battle Swapping in that you're near-blindly swapping for a Pokemon you just fought, and you won't see said Trainer again in your current 7-Trainer challenge). If the Battle Maison removed things like rental Pokemon and "temporarily swapping your own Pokemon for a foe's Pokemon, with your OWN Pokemon having the potential to be used by the foe in an upcoming match", then I can see how Battle Maison dampens what the PWT included.

Coming off that point, rental Pokemon needs to become a standard in future generations (as in, each region needs a Battle Factory, and/or a Battle Tower-like facility where you can rent Pokemon (there can be an option to manually pick what you start with or randomize what you get) at the start but can't swap during the challenge); the sheer randomness of rentals already increases replayability (arguably, it infinitely increases it, at least in my opinion) since I can't just "expect/predict" what Pokemon I'll use or what I'll face (while you can 'predict' certain trends in the facilities (as in, you likely won't run into a legendary Pokemon on your first match, though there's a Generation 3 exception that's due to the Mixing Records mechanic), you can't outright know what you'll face (or in Battle Factories, what you'll be offered) unless you're facing a facility boss who has a predetermined team.

As for the "Contest" replacement in XY, I'll consent that there doesn't really seem to be an equivalent aside from the Pokemon-amie (at least you have 718-721 sets of Pokemon interactions to observe!)...

The amount of "post-game" technically depends on your definition of what consists of/counts as "post-game" - do you desire infinite replayability (such as, no Pokemon battle is alike - this is more evident in Battle Tower-like facilities) in your save file, or do you just want stuff to do? (like additional plot events, sidequests and the like, all of which typically will end eventually). As for my own definition of "post-game", it's "Without restarting my game file, after I've beaten the Elite 4 and Champion (and Red, for Pokemon Gold/Silver/Crystal/HeartGold/SoulSilver Versions. From what I've heard, Pokemon Black/White Versions play with this a little due to a certain turn of events on your first run, so I'll say "after I've beaten the BW Elite 4 and Champion twice") what continues to draw me back to the game each day? (aside from re-battling the Elite 4/Champion, which even Red/Blue lets you do. And the main reason I exclude "Elite/Champion" 4 rebattling is that you can eventually out-level them to the point where re-battling their weak/static teams isn't even a challenge unless you like occupying time with that sort of thing). I'm guessing that the point at which most people here consider "post-game" is either when the "plot" roughly ends (when you beat the boss of the crime syndicate of your game) when you beat the Elite 4 and Champion/see the credits roll for the FIRST time (if you want to get technical, the post-game of GSC/HGSS can also be considered as when you get all 16 Badges and beat Red for the first time at Mt. Silver, thus seeing the credits roll for a SECOND time) - even then, the point of when post-game 'starts' is up to personal opinion.


* (For an example of why "amount of post-game" depends on what you consider to be post-game, consider Pokemon FireRed/LeafGreen Versions):

Spoiler:

If I were to say that post-game is "how much 'story' and places to battle/explore is left after the credits roll?", I'd say that there's a decent chunk...aside from revisiting Kanto areas for kicks, there's the Sevii Island sidequest(s) involving visiting at least 7 islands, retrieving the Ruby and Sapphire items, defeating Team Rocket's Sevii Islands branch (strictly, only Sevii Islands 4-7 count as post-game, since Sevii Islands 1-3 are accessible right after defeating Blaine, remaining visitable before you even tackle the Kanto Elite 4), and conquering Seven Island's Trainer Tower (a pseudo-Battle Tower in that the opposing teams are static, especially if all your Pokemon are Level 100; it's worth at least 4 run-throughs due to featuring 4 different modes, resulting in 28 different floors as each mode has 7 floors exclusive to it, with each floor featuring different teams. Being time-based, there's also the personal incentive of improving your "Best Time" of beating all of the floors in each mode). There's also the VS Seeker, which increases non-Pokemon League foe Trainers' Pokemon levels slightly and provides slightly-changed pre-battle dialogue for a lot of Trainers. Finally, the 2nd-run-through of the Kanto Elite 4 and Champion use updated rosters of Pokemon, providing more incentive to challenge the Elite 4 again (these teams are used as the basis for all future Elite 4/Champion teams past your 1st run-through).

On the other hand, if I define "post-game" as "stuff for me to do even after I've finished the Sevii Island sidequests and Trainer Tower AND the "Second Wave" Kanto Elite 4", there's ridiculously little to do. The only incentives are re-battling the Elite 4/Champion (essentially pointless if all Pokemon in your party are Level 100 (as you don't get any experience points, and you can usually just effortlessly defeat them without even an iota of strategy beyond "mash the A button; insta-KO") and your wallet has reached its capacity (meaning that all the reward money that you get after winning goes to waste) and improving your time in Trainer Tower (the static teams don't help for replay value, and I think at some point you stop getting rewards for improving your time). At least all the proper "Battle Towers" in post-FR/LG games randomize the opponent Pokemon somewhat.

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From my experience, handheld main series Pokemon post-game pretty much consists of 3 things:

*Battling - I mostly mean Trainer battles, though wild Pokemon battles can technically count. The best example would probably be the Battle Tower and its derivatives, including the PWT

In my eyes, these provide infinite replayability as there is an attempt to randomize the foes (although I really don't know what happens after you beat battling facility bosses or reach a 999-win streak in a battling facility.. XD My assumption is that you just continue fighting tough foes after the 50-win streak, where permissible legendaries can appear often, in an attempt to maintain/improve your streak until you lose.), and the games setting your foes to be of an equal level to your own Pokemon helps make the fight more fair (so you can't just out-level mow everyone in the Battle Tower and call it a day), despite the intense hax that the computer Trainers can pull off.

*Exploring -mainly, finding new items and/or unseen/uncaught Pokemon for the Pokedex, talking to people that have new dialogue (such as in plot-based events)), and

*Diversions - essentially everything else that is an alternative to battling, Game Corners, "mini-games" (off the top of my head, the Wireless Adapter mini-games of Generation 3, the "Wobbuffet Pop" thing and its counterpart in Pokemon Platinum Version, the Dream World stuff in Generation 5, etc.) Pokemon Contests, Johto's Bug-Catching Contest, Pokemon HeartGold/SoulSilver Version's Pokeathlon, Pokemon Musicals, PokeStar Studio movies, enhancing Unova's Join Avenue), and, if you're desperate, Berry farming/caretaking/hunting.


OTHER "DIVERSIONS":

Spoiler:

*While Contests (I'm mostly referring to their Generation 3 incarnation) can be done prior to beating the Elite 4/Champion, I mostly count them as part of post-game, as Master Rank Contests randomize your foes, and some Contest Pokemon are as "contest-capable" as your own Pokemon at those levels, providing a decent non-battling diversion. Additionally, a major part of Contests is optimizing your Pokemon via Pokeblocks and Scarves, and some of the readily-accessible "high-tier" Pokeblocks (namely, the ones used when you insert a Durin or Watmel Berry) are only accessible from the Berry Master's wife post-Elite 4 when you have access to roaming Latios/Latias, and you usually need the optimal Pokeblocks to obtain the Contest Scarves that allow you to stand a decent chance in Master Rank Contests. Although if you manage to obtain both Lati@s pre-Elite 4/Champion defeat or even visit Mirage Island (which contains the Liechi Berry, said to outclass all the other Berries obtainable within Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald through normal gameplay), "optimal Pokeblocks being restricted to post-Elite 4" becomes a non-issue.
*For those who want to do it, while breeding can be done pre-Elite 4/Champion defeat, I count breeding as "post-game" nowadays (Emerald Version and onwards) since much better breeding tools are available by then, like:
**Ditto, Smeargle, and the "IV Checker Man" in Emerald, as well as access to Battle Frontier Move Tutor moves that also serve as Egg Moves for certain Pokemon
**Moves only learned at higher levels (easier to be attained once you have higher-level Pokemon, which will likely require you to beat the game at least once - an example is if you want a Level 50 Heracross that has Megahorn, which is only learned by Heracross by level-up at Level 53, and otherwise has to be bred onto Heracross), and

**You have access to most Pokemon in-game (Emerald makes a lot of Johto Pokemon available in the Safari Zone once you beat the Elite 4, for example)

*For those who want to do it, Shiny Hunting can be done right when you get your first Pokemon in the game, although it seems this would be better relegated to a post-game activity since you can find better tools (as in, you don't have any plot-based obstacles that prevent you from visiting areas, and as someone mentioned earlier, some games let you get the PokeRadar after beating the Elite 4/Champion. B2W2 especially lets you get the Shiny Charm, making the task much easier).

As for XY, I think it satisfies the "battling" post-game nicely, as you have the Battle Maison (the primary draw, IMO, especially as opponent Pokemon are randomized), Battle Chateau, and Battle Institute (and the Inverse Battles building). The major "battling post-game" mis-steps IMO are that XY doesn't feature a Challenge Mode or VS Seeker (like B2W2 and FR/LG, respectively), doesn't increase the levels of the party Pokemon of the Elite 4 and Champion (done as early as FR/LG), doesn't allow Sky Battle rematches ("Sky Battles" essentially being another battle mode, which could've seen use somewhere like the Battle Maison and multiplayer battles), and doesn't allow non-Chateau Gym Leader rematches (done as early as Emerald, although I guess that their Chateau cameos are basically meant to emulate the Fighting Dojo's Gym Leader rematches in HG/SS..?). In terms of battling post-game, XY already supersedes Pokemon Ruby/Sapphire Versions, as they have more than just a regular "Battle Tower" and "re-battling NPC Trainers/the Elite 4 and Champion" (at the bare minimum). Pokemon Gold/Silver Versions are also surpassed, as those don't even have a Battle Tower like their companion Pokemon Crystal Version (pre-Red, Gold/Silver have decent post-game; post-Red, Gold/Silver's battling post-game is even worse than that of Ruby/Sapphire, as you can only re-battle the Elite 4/Champion). And as mentioned, one can always participate in real-life multiplayer Pokemon battles, arguably providing even more variation/replayability than an in-game Battle Tower ever could.
*While Battle Chateau and Battle Institute can apparently be "completed" before beating the Elite 4/Champion, I consider them as post-game due to them offering multiple opponents that can be repeatedly fought. If the Battle Institute randomizes foe Pokemon using the Battle Maison's Pokemon, then it can easily be used as post-game due to the variety in opponents. As for Battle Chateau, while some of it can be completed before post-game, the time it likely takes to be able to contend with Diantha's ~Level 60 (~Level 80 with the best Writ of Challenge, from what I've read) Pokemon practically mandates that you "live" (AKA constantly battle in) the Battle Chateau for hours on end, when you could have probably completed the pre-game and relegate the Battle Chateau for some sufficient post-game in the same amount of time.

In terms of "exploring" post-game, the Looker side-quest and Kalos hotels seem OK, although I guess the real meat is Kiloude City (which unlocks Battle Maison and the "Friend Safari" Zone, IIRC) and the legendary Pokemon. While the Battle Maison area being restricted to post-game is in line with what past games have done, Safari Zones have been available prior to post-game before (at least the Friend Safari has a little to compensate with in the form of Ditto with flawless IVs and Pokemon with Hidden Abilities)... Due to XY's low "new Pokemon count", the amount of available in-game legendaries post-game is a little low, and apparently depends mostly on pre-Kalos legends, too (I'd compare it somewhat to Ruby/Sapphire, which has just Rayquaza and Lati@s available post-game, although at least those were introduced with Hoenn). Game Freak *could've* ramp up the amount of post-game in-game Generation 6 legendaries, but then you run the risk of fans criticizing the game for there being "too many legendary Pokemon". As for the number of new in-game locations to explore, it doesn't have any aside from Kiloude City, from what I've read, which is slightly worse than Ruby/Sapphire (which only has the Battle Tower area/"LaRousse City", S.S. Tidal, and Rayquaza's Sky Pillar in post-game).

Spoiler:

*As for my own opinion, Ruby/Sapphire makes up for the lack of "post-game" exploring area with "pseudo-post-game", such as the large amount of secluded underwater areas. Yeah, you can explore most of them before the post-game, but most people already seem sick of all of Hoenn's surfing, so I don't think those players would be inclined to explore underwater (excluding plot-based times like Seafloor Cavern and Sootopolis City) prior to defeating the Elite 4/Champion anyway XD, thus relegating them to post-game. Arguably, the routes that you initially sail on with Mr. Briney are rather forgettable once you have Surf/Fly (as you're mostly "pushed" to go east on Hoenn's water rather than backtrack west on water, and there's not much reason to revisit the areas near/of Rustboro City and Dewford Town aside from wild Pokemon) - Regice's location (Island Cave) alone makes you go well out of your way west while Surfing; I personally didn't even visit that area until post-game.) And then there's visiting Pacifidlog Town and the Regi side-quest (both of which can be visited/completed before the post-game). I personally relegated both more towards the post-game, as Pacifidlog requires me to go west (whereas normally, after the 8th badge, I'd be "spurred" towards getting towards Ever Grande City since it houses the Elite 4/Champion, and I'm near there anyway while in Sootopolis). As for the Regi side-quest, it's rather time-consuming as it requires you to (usually) translate Braille writing, requires several HMs and one TM (Dig) in Ruby/Sapphire on top of a lot of precise Surfing due to water currents (not to mention that you'll have to hunt for the uncommon Relicanth and either catch or train a Wailord, and contend with all the people you encounter while getting to Sealed Chamber in the first place); in sum, the time, preparation, and effort required just makes me see the "Regi side-quest" more as an activity best left for post-game...

*Additionally, I'm not really counting any event-based activity/Pokemon as post-game throughout this post, as that depends on whether the player can even access the event or not, and a lot are roughly the equivalent of side-quests (time will tell whether any XY events last longer than the XY Looker side-quests or not). From the looks of it, all handheld main series Pokemon games beyond Gold/Silver seem to have had decent "event post-game", with 1-3+ legendary Pokemon involved, and XY looks like it'll satisfy that field (with the 3 unrevealed Pokemon as of now, as well as potential Mega Evolutions).

In terms of "diversion" post-game, the only things I can think of are Pokemon-amie (not sure how much time this occupies, but again, you have at least 718-721 different Pokemon interactions to experience), Super Training (although it can potentially be made useless with Horde EV abuse, it does offer the incentive of a Ribbon for each Pokemon that completes the regimen, and a Medal for Trainers, IIRC), Clothing/Trainer customization (a lot of stores seem to have expensive clothing (and one even rotates it stock daily, it seems), so if you care that much about clothes, it'll take you a while to earn the money to buy all of them), Mega Stone hunting (though this can diminish once you have all of them), and Berry farming. XY fails (like BW and B2W2 did) in offering a suitable Game Corner equivalent.. Are there any mini-games in Kalos aside from Pokemon-amie and Super Training? If all else fails, you can go "Ribbon hunting" (for each Pokemon that you own) as well as Medal hunting (for yourself, if you're aiming for "100% Completion"), both of which can use up a bit of time.

I've been doing shiny hunting/breeding, training new teams, getting new friend safaris, completing pokedex.

you can always battle real life opponents and what not. the 3ds has made that a lot easier, just a bit annoying when all you find is people using Blaziken and legendaries

This.

I think the devellopers were really hoping that a vast majority of people would be into breeding (in regards to post game content). I had finished the game in about 40H-50H (yeah...i'm slow) and right now the clock is at 227:32. Of course if breeding is not really in your thing, I would admit there is a lack of things to do after!

Agreed; breeding seems much more enjoyable in XY as good IVs are much easier to obtain, although sometimes it seems like less of an "activity" and more of a "chore" (to remain competitively viable)....at least for me, it does. The main reason I even bother to endure the monotony of breeding alone is largely for battling purposes (and I'm speaking from my experiences from Sapphire and Emerald Versions, where the recently-introduced perks for Everstone (as in, 100% guaranteed Nature inheritance, not 50% like it was in Emerald or being nonexistent in Sapphire's case), Power items, infinite TMs, and Destiny Knot don't even exist, so ). I've only gotten 1 Shiny Pokemon from breeding (a Surskit, which I lost), so I'm not too inclined to hunt for Shiny Pokemon in Emerald (which has its own host of shiny-hunting-by-breeding issues due to the RNG "error").

For people who shiny hunt/breed, or breed for perfect IV's and such, there is stuff to do, yeah. But, I'm not really into that. I accept my Pokemon how it is. I don't have anything wrong with people who do that though because it isn't cheating and with new in game mechanics, it really does promote breeding for things like that. I just wish they had some fun things for us to do as opposed to just assuming that everyone will be on Battle Spot or Wonder Trade all the time.

In this case, there's still Battle Maison+Chateau+Institute, along with Inverse Battles, in-game. If you're more of a "diversion post-game" person, then I can see how there isn't much to do, as there's no "Contest" or "Game Corner" (especially if you've maxed the Affection and Effort Values (EVs) of all of your Pokemon already on top of completing the Pokedex and finding all of the Mega Stones). If you're not inclined towards in-game or multiplayer battles either, the best I can suggest in XY (without having played the game) is going Ribbon Hunting (for each of your Pokemon, which includes completing Super Training mini-games ;D) and Medal Hunting for 100% completion!

https://www.serebii.net/xy/dailyevent.shtml every thing you can do daily in the game.

Thanks for the list. On skimming it, some are a bit sub-par (a lot of them let you obtain an item that you can easily obtain with little effort if you're rich in-game :P), but at least the game give you SOMETHING to look forward to daily.

Keeping yourself occupied does not equal post-game content, guys. You could breed and shiny hunt and battle in the old games too, that didn't stop them from adding loads of things to do after the Elite Four. Legendary "hunting" is pathetic in X/Y because they only offer you 3, and 2 of them are from old games. Looker missions feel like a sidequest, not something to to actively pursue once the main journey is over.

That said, I'm really hoping they skimped out because they want to release DLC or something. They did it for Fire Emblem, who knows what'll happen here? I don't even care if I have to pay some extra, I'd be happy knowing there's more to do (if those new legendaries are just Wonder Cards without in-game events I'm gonna flip)

This is probably the most empty post-game since FireRed/LeafGreen.

Um, I thought the point of post-game WAS to keep you occupied (somehow) once you've beaten the post-game..? I agree about how including breeding/shiny hunting by default doesn't mean that the post-game can be skimped on... As for legendary hunting, I haven't played most main Pokemon games aside from Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald and FireRed, but I thought "3" was the usual number of post-game Pokemon available (By "legendary hunting", I'm assuming you mean strictly post-game...? Not sure whether the Legendary Dogs/Beasts of Johto are available pre-E4 or post-E4, but they hardly count as post-game IMO since the Kanto Legendary birds of RBY were available pre-E4 in Red/Blue when they could've easily been moved to post-E4 to account for more "legendary Pokemon post-game" alongside Mewtwo).

I'm just wondering if XY had featured more new legendary Pokemon post-game excluding Xerneas, Yveltal, Zygarde, and event Pokemon (aside from a legendary "Legendary Bird-esque" trio, which can be situated before post-game), whether people would be switch from bashing them on account of "no post-game" to bashing them for including too many legendary Pokemon (which DPPt and BW/B2W2 repeatedly get criticized for by some people, even today). I'm guessing Hoenn sort of hit the magic number, as I hardly see anyone comment about Generation 3 introducing "too many legendaries"...? (excluding non-Rayquaza version mascot, event Pokemon, and the 3 Regis, Rayquaza and one of Lati@s can be caught post-game in Ruby/Sapphire. Zygarde essentially equals Rayquaza, so had a non-mascot legendary trio been introduced as well, it seems like XY would only need one more legendary Pokemon to satisfy the "legendary hunting" role yet avoid criticism from the "Too many legendaries! OMGWHYY" part of the fandom).

If you criticize XY about lack of POST-game legendary hunting (having 3, despite using 2 older legends), you should regard Ruby/Sapphire post-game legendary hunting as just as bad or even worse (since that has only 2 legends post-game if you don't count the Regis, albeit both of them being introduced in Generation 3). I agree that XY still deserve criticism for re-using 2 legends for part of its post-game along with introducing no non-version mascot legendary trio for either pre-game or post-game.

Do you want more diversions or explorable areas in post-game...? Excluding those and Pokedex completion, there's not much to "actively pursue once the main journey is over" in most Pokemon games aside from side-quests and battling facilities... The mere inclusion of the Battle Maison in XY (which has four modes like FR/LG's Trainer Tower with "bosses" AND randomizes opponents, unlike FireRed/LeafGreen's Trainer Tower's static teams) alone, with the multitude of Ribbons and Medals up for grabs (both of which FR/LG largely lack, if you discount the Indigo Plateau's unseen "Champion Ribbon"), makes it hard for me to believe that XY has an emptier post-game than FireRed/LeafGreen. XY even lets you re-battle Gym Leaders in some way (Battle Chateau), whereas FireRed/LeafGreen does not.

Even with having things like all Level 100 Pokemon as well as a maxxed wallet, Affection, EVs, Ribbons, AND Medals, I feel that there would still be stuff for me to do in XY (namely, Battle Maison/Institute) compared to if I had a maxxed wallet and Levels in FR/LG. However, in terms of explorable areas, then yes, I would be inclined to agree that XY's post-game is indeed emptier than that of FR/LG.

No. Ruby and Sapphire had no post game either. Once you beat the Elite 4 all you had was Legendary Hunting. Diamond and Pearl had no post game other than the Battle island which had 3 areas, only one of which had anything on it (the battle tower), and Black and White had three areas to explore, legend hunting and Black City/White Forest.

All in all they've always had about the same amount of after game content. A few areas to explore, Legendary hunting, and some battle facility. That's all there has ever been in the main games with the only exception being Gold and Silver because they were supposed to be sequels that allowed you to go back to Kanto, though there really wasn't much to do as a large amount of people don't consider the game beaten until Red was beaten so after Red, there is nothing to do.

I'm going to have to disagree on Ruby/Sapphire "[having] no post-game" (aside from Legendary Hunting) as well. If you mean in terms of explorable areas, there's still the Battle Tower, SS Tidal, and the Sky Pillar (while it overlaps with Legendary Hunting as it contains a legendary Pokemon, it still counts as a new area as it's blocked off before you defeat the Elite 4/Champion). (These are less of examples, but the Abandoned Ship and the large secluded Underwater areas can also count if someone happened to forget about them before the post-game).

Even discounting post-game exploration, you also have Secret Base Battles (only accessible upon beating Hoenn Elite 4/Champion) that can be done once daily (if you mix records again in the same day, they can be re-fought more than once), where you can fight against the teams of the Trainers that you mix records with and can potentially net more experience than what the entire Hoenn Elite 4/Champion can give you. Although Contests can be done post-game, they can still be suitable for post-game as Master Rank Contests provide some sort of "randomized variation" with Pokemon with optimized Contest Conditions and movepools that are roughly on par to the player's, and I highly doubt that most players will beat Master Rank in all 5 Contests, get each Contest's corresponding Scarf (to boost Contest Condition), AND get Contest all 5 Contest category Paintings for the Lilycove Art Museum all before beating the Elite 4/Champion, especially since you have to wait until Lilycove City to blend decent Pokeblocks if you don't have reliable multiplayer Pokeblock, and by that point, the player is likely going to explore the rest of Lilycove as well, especially Team Magma/Aqua's Hideout base (an area which helps to further the plot, once one finishes exploring it and "allows enough time" for the docked submarine in there to depart).

I can't say much for Diamond/Pearl, but the Battle Tower (primarily due to its non-static teams) at least leads to a better post-game in DP than in FR/LG, IMO. And I would guess you could also compete at Super Contests and collect Ribbons (the price of the Ribbon Syndicate's Gorgeous Royal Ribbon alone should net several hours of post-game play-time), so there's those as well. Maybe the Underground could provide some sort of distraction for a while, but I'm unfamiliar with that place. I agree with you in that most Pokemon games more or less have the same amount of post-game content, though, even FR/LG.

It seems that the "worst post-game" would be Red/Blue (although those games came "first", so it seems that people give those games a pass, even excluding Mewtwo and Cerulean Cave), Gold/Silver (post-Red battle, there's nothing to do except re-battle Elite 4/Champion and possibly Bug-Catching Contests), and/or FireRed/LeafGreen (post-Sevii Island sidequests and Trainer Tower completion, there's nothing to do except re-battle the updated teams of the Elite 4/Champion)...

Regarding Gold/Silver, though, can't you continue to do the Bug-Catching Contest in post-game like in HG/SS? If so, that's a *slight* edge over the post-games that RBY and FR/LG have to offer...

I'll disagree in the DP front in that it offered a lot of side content to indulge in, and RS were not that bare either. Contests added a fair bit to do and made a point out of berry growing, and had a safari zone too, and secret bases. But yeah, bare and less to do than Emerald, certainly.

But DP had a good deal of side things to do, imo. Pal Park was a bonus, it also had its own contests and coupled berry growing/poffin making, the Underground was hella fun and gets an upgrade in stuff to find after beating the league, it also had a game corner and safari zone, the Pokeradar is a postgame item/feature, as are swarms... on top of the whole island and Battle Tower. DP really had a lot to do in them (and Platinum fixed many of its issues and gave us the Frontier as well).

X&Y are lacking, but it's not quite as bad as BW imo. No dream world, but that means you don't need to go on the PC to play poor flash games for < an hour just to catch Pokemon. The Friend safari is a fine enough substitute imo. The Pokeradar doesn't appeal to everyone, but it does to me. =p I suppose the lack of new places to explore is a noticeable difference though. Probably offset by the number of areas to explore in the game as it is just to get to the E4!

The legendary catching is not too fulfilling given how many we have these days, but oh well.

This, although I don't think Friend Safari is enough of a substitute, since it's more or less a Safari Zone which could've been put before the post-game (and most people seem to care about just Ditto first and foremost in there, followed by anything with a Hidden Ability, moreso Kanto and Kalos starter Pokemon). Additionally, Friend Safari depends on who's on your Friend List (I'm presuming that adding people there requires either local wireless play or an Internet connection, which some people may have difficulty getting), so my impression is that Friend Safari can either be an amazing or useless addition to the post-game of XY.

I feel like if XY had a non version-mascot trio and 1 or 2 more legendary Pokemon available in-game during post-game (excluding Xerneas, Yveltal, Zygrade, Mewtwo, and the Legendary Birds), then "Legendary Hunting" would feel more fulfilling for some players...

If you want to look at it that way, then X and Y also added Super Training mini games, Pokemon Amie mini games, Friend Safari, Battle Chateau, and Battle Maison, which puts it right there with D/P in terms of things to do, but contests and all the things listed weren't post game content, they were available before the post game and could be completed then as well. D/P offered barely anything post game and Pal Park is useless to those without a correct DS. In terms of things offered after you beat the games, there has never been anything to do added in other than Battle tower for the main games as Frontier doesn't exist in any main set of games, they only appear in the ones after the main set.

They all have roughly the same amount of content within them whether they appeal to players or not, but they all hardly ever add anything after the game is finished. That's just how they have always been.

You make a good point, although like with the Hoenn-based games, I hardly hear of anyone who spends the time to complete all 5 Master Ranks in Sinnoh's Super Contests BEFORE the post-game, so I would think that most players try out Super Contests before the post-game, but stop and wait to continue where they left off after they beat the Sinnoh Elite 4/Champion (as you're in a better position to collect all the Berries for Poffins and stuff)...

I agree there's a disappointing amount of post-game content, but at least they've made IV/EV breeding/training a lot easier now, meaning we can actually focus on our teams and other Pokémon. Even getting shinies is easier now.

I think the post-game for XY has been dedicated to competitors and collectors (shinies, dexers, fashionistas) this time around.

There's still a lot of potential for DLC though, in terms of events or megas. Even new legendaries, although there's so many now they're about as commonplace as Bidoof...
Looker missions were fun and added a little more to the story. Battle Chateau, Restaurant Le Wow and Hotel Richissime give decent money. Battle Maison and Institute are there if you're into that kinda thing.

This. Regarding legendaries, even though we now have a very high number, I feel like we have to continue with them as post-game... What are we going to do, NOT have any more legendaries beyond Generation 6? The post-game is already limited as it is (if you include legendary hunting as an aspect of it). No post-game legendaries at all would just seem very weird, and I feel like each new generation should have at least 2-3 new legendary Pokemon post-game (with the legendary version mascot, if any, being before the post-game, and any non-version mascot legendary trios being "flexible" (as in, they can be caught before post-game, but are just as fitting as a post-game activity, like the Regis of Hoenn)).

I'm going to have to disagree with you there. Most of the time, we do have a limited amount of after game content, except, for HeartGold and SoulSilver. With those games there was loads to do. Bug Catching Contest, Pokeathlon, rechallenging Gym Leaders, Hoenn & Sinnoh sound on top of swarms made completing the PokeDex more fun, Safari Zone, challenging Red, etc. Not to mention, in HG & SS, they made it an actual challenge to get three starters, whereas X & Y just handed them too us. And BW2 had the PWT and several in game Trainers to challenge daily. X and Y has a decent amount of daily events for you to do, but, the majority of them are along the lines of going and talking to an NPC to get this item, or, go here and one of your friends will tell you about something. Those are hardly events.

Like I just stated, most of the X and Y daily events are things along the lines of just traveling to a location to talk to an NPC to get an item or just traveling somewhere to get an item. The only real decent daily event is battling Calem/Serena. Why couldn't we have done this with Trevor, Shauna, and Tierno? Instead Trevor just tells you what Pokemon have potential to Mega Evolve, when the large majority of players already know them all, Tierno just asks to see a Pokemon that knows a certain move, and after you've traded with Shauna after the Elite Four, she's virtually useless. And the only two weekly events are a Banette and a Rotom that are found in trash cans.

This; HG/SS is just ridiculous in the amount of post-game stuff you can do; it's just so mesmerizing (and it's disappointing that certain features that make sense in later generations, like Gym Leader re-battling, continues to get left out on occasion...even if you're planning 3rd version or future Pokemon games, it's not like you have to make paired versions suck on purpose). Don't forget collecting Ribbons, Poke Ball Seals, taking pictures, and finding Shiny Leaves/Shiny Crown for your Pokemon, on top of Apricorn/Berry Farming! Even from an audio perspective, one still has incentive to wander around Johto and Kanto listening to all of the GB Sounds 8-bit (?) remixes. And even though HG/SS re-uses the Sinnoh Battle Frontier of Platinum, you still have randomized foes to keep you busy. IMO, the only thing HG/SS was missing in terms of post-game was the Pokemon Super Contests of Sinnoh, and it seems like the only reason those were excluded were to give Pokeathlon some spotlight and still provide a degree of "exclusivity" to DPPt's feature(s) aside from Sinnoh's starter and legendary Pokemon.

I agree; there's not a really a reason to make Trevor, Shauna, and Tierno non-battleable daily outside of battling facilities, given that past games have allowed rival battles (and while Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald only has one rival who is battleable at random times throughout the days/weeks/months, you can essentially have like "4+" daily, useful 'rival battles' if you mix records and partake in Secret Base Battles with people who have strong Pokemon)... Unless Game Freak is planning to make all the rivals battleable daily in a potential third version, although I say make the paired versions the best games they can be, don't intentionally withhold content for a "third game".

I think bw2's large amount of post game content might have spoiled us. I just hope that they are starting a trend with 3rd instalments with bw2. I would be more than happy to keep shooting pokemon another 40 bus or so each time they do this.
Think about the future though.
What we have now is a constant internet connectivity/ EV training mini games/ happiness-friendliness mini game wrapped up at our finger tips anywhere and anytime.
We got 700+ 3d pokemon models.
We wasn't even sure we was gonna get customization for clothes, and many ppl doubted but we got that.
We got a new type.
We got mega evolution which is not just your typical poke blocks, puffin crap that will change from game to game altering stuff, this is a game changer for several pkmn from now on.
We got, yet small, 3d character cut scenes.
Man, with all that going on and dialed in well at that, just wait for the 3rd installation ( if we get one because eli goulding said anything could happen ) I bet to somes surprise and somes reassurance we will get maybe the close to perfect and best pokemon game to date guys

Not everyone is able to have constant Internet access with a 3DS; some people are still in remote areas. The "3D models" thing is more of an art choice, and the art style doesn't make up for lack of post-game, IMO (although Pokemon-amie presumably did take a lot of work for 718-721+ Pokemon interactions, so there is that.. :<). Pokemon Battle Revolution introduced clothing customization a while back, so it's been a long time coming for the feature to be implemented in the main series handheld games (and, like in real-life, if you don't care about clothes or put little time in choosing what you wear, that feature essentially does nothing for you except things like eye color and skin tone, which are useless if you don't intend to customize your character at all).

The "3D character cutscenes" I can't comment well on, but a lot of DS and even 3DS games can manage those and still provide adequate post-game content.

Mega Evolution is potentially a game-changer, but there's nothing that says that it's sticking around after Generation 6 (as it is dependent on items, and items can be blocked from cross-generation transfer, as Pokemon Bank and PokeTransfer show). Even then (this is a bit subjective), a lot of desired Mega Evolutions didn't come about, and several Pokemon who didn't need one (Garchomp, Blaziken, Mewtwo; and Charizard getting TWO of them while other starter Pokemon got none) still got one.

All the third versions (except Yellow Version) seem to have good post-game content, but I don't want to restrict the good post-game content to just the third versions. Gym Leaders rematches and Challenge Mode can easily become a mainstay for paired versions as well, not just "Battle Tower" and "Pokemon Contest replacement" gen in and gen out.

LOL at your Ellie Goulding quote. XD

The games are surprisingly missing in post-games, but not as less as the original Red and Blue, but they were the first so they don't count. Previous games have had at least two towns left for you to visit post game or an extra feature to do (e.g. Contest, Pokeathlon, etc.) and some legendaries to catch. X and Y only brought 6 catchable legends in the game but those are still to few, especially since only two can be caught post-game. Not disappointed though. They did bring new online features, Wonder trade and Friend Safari, so those are maybe enough to accommodate for the lack of post-game.

If other RPGs at the time of Red/Blue's release had more post-game (as in, more than the amount of time it takes to explore Cerulean Cave and battle/catch Mewtwo), I don't see why Red/Blue should be exempt simply because they were first.. :/ At the very least, Yellow Version should be criticized for post-game since they had the chance to add some more things, though some may argue that the plot alteration/anime integration was sufficient enough and compensates for the lack of new post-game content.. You make a good point for the other features that XY managed to bring about, though (although Wonder Trade is useless for Trainers who get crappy Pokemon from it; then again, the point of Wonder Trade is based on chance..).

I realize how much new stuff we got, and, I do love all of it. The new Pokemon, the Megas, the 3D, everything is just fantastic. But, even with all of that, X and Y just seems to be, lacking, in a lot of aspects if you ask me. The lack of post game things to do, the lack of new Pokemon, I also find it...odd, that they chose some of the Megas that they did, it's also odd that the Elite Four doesn't get increased levels after beating them for the first time when they have in literally every other game. There's just something very off about X and Y, and not just the lack of post game activity. It almost seems like they have set themselves up for a sequel or something similar. But, I won't get into that here since that isn't what this thread is for.

The "Elite 4 getting updated in levels" needs to be a standard in paired versions; I mean, the now-outdated FR/LG managed to introduce/include it, why can't XY? And Emerald Version lacks that "boost in levels" thing, so I hope that it's not a remake-exclusive feature (which is silly, IMO, because remakes have and should have better things to offer than just "boost in levels of the Elite 4!").

Its hard to set up for a sequel when the main story closes off the way X and Y did. This is the first time we had direct closure at the end of the main story. The lacking you feel is probably because of of all the new things we did get. Its hard to just add things in before its too much so GF went the route of adding a few things. I mean compared to the past, this is the most we've ever gotten in one game.

I think it stands out that I disagree with the lack of content. All of the main titled games are like this. There was nothing to do once you've beaten the game as not much new opens up after the Elite 4. All you have left is 1) Capture Pokemon. 2) Explore the end game dungeons (there are always end game dungeons). 3) Participate in battle facilities (Tower, Black Tower/White Tree, Station, Chateau, and Maison.) 4) Do mini games (Contests, Super Contests, Musicals, Pokemon Amie).

If you don't do these things, then yes there is no end game content. The games are supposed to be enjoyed at a casual pace. Played for a few minutes to an hour at most. We choose to speed through the games and complete them within a few days. When you do that there really isn't anything else to do because we just rushed through it.

Other than Gold and Silver and by extension HG/SS no none of the games added any more than this. Half of it doesn't even qualify as Post game content as its available before you beat the game and can be completed before the game ends. Once you beat the games all that's pretty much left is to start building teams for competitive play to bide time until the next game comes out.

Which battle facility do you mean by "Station", by chance?

I can imagine how players who "speed through the game" can feel like there's no post-game content in XY...

It feels like the "additions" in XY were mainly geared towards conveniences (for players who have played prior Pokemon games) and breeding purposes. I would figure that, at this point in the Pokemon franchise, more "daily rival battles", "boost in Elite 4" levels, "Challenge Mode", Gym Leader rematches, and VS Seeker (possibly) are features that are beneficial enough to be included in paired versions of main series games, and should've been included in XY. Not to mention that the Sky Battle mechanic (despite its flaws) and the Inverse Battle mechanic could've seen extensive use in post-game, at least for multiplayer battles and the Battle Maison, Chateau, and Institute!

OK; I think I'm done...finally. XD If you read most/all of this, thank you so very much. >.<

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TL;DR - XY post-game is arguably lacking and certainly could've been improved, but it shouldn't be criticized TOO harshly...

(It took me way more hours than I thought it did to write all of this..? XD *shudders*)

 

[scprepschool]

(hopefully, I can change the instances of "ALL CAPS" to italics at some point and spoiler certain sections of this from becoming too long... Here we go!)

Major wall of text, so beware! (I tried spoiler-tagging some of it, but I'm not sure whether more needs to be spoiler-tagged?)

Short version - XY post-game is arguably lacking and certainly could've been improved, but it shouldn't be criticized TOO harshly...

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I remember during the pre-release period of XY when some of the "rumors" floating around were that "XY have essentially zero post-game content"; I really don't know why the post-game of XY is getting criticized so harshly (although I haven't actually played the game(s) yet, so there's that. >.<)... I mean, on the battling scene, you have the:
* Battle Maison (Kalos's Battle Tower equivalent)
* Battle Chateau (arguably a poor man's Battle Tower since the Pokemon levels don't seem to equal yours (this is mainly an issue since you can just out-level and essentially wipe the floor with everyone); the highest I saw on Bulbapedia was Diantha's Pokemon in the Level 60 range (which becomes Level 80 range with the highest Writ of Challenge))
* Battle Institute (modified rules, but if it's the same case as the Unova Battle Institute which pulled from the Battle Subway Pokemon pool, this one should pull from the Battle Maison Pokemon pool... At least it's somewhat fairer/more challenging since your own Pokemon and opposing Pokemon are all auto-leveled to Level 50).
* Inverse Battles (I'll have to examine this more, but if opposing Pokemon match your own Pokemon, it seems like a decent go-to area for battlers, even though the interesting mechanic essentially makes it a "Battle Tower mode with its own building")

Johto's Bug-Catching Contest seems like adequate post-game activity, but you're essentially just "catching Pokemon in a specific area" for comparison, and the prizes aren't *that* great to warrant repeat entries, IMO (at least in GSC).

Pokemon Black 2/White 2's Pokemon World Tournament is essentially "Battle Tower with Gym Leaders and Champions (plus some other oddballs)", so if the Original Poster is not satisfied with the Kalos Battle Maison, then Unova's PWT shouldn't count, IMO. However, it still seems like a decent post-game activity due to the Rule of Cool factor with all the cameos, and it at least provides as much engagement as the Battle Tower/Battle Subway and even provides rental Pokemon (also, it seems to innovate a little with that neat mechanic where you and your foe are forced to temporarily swap 1 Pokemon for your upcoming battle, which differs from Battle Factory's Battle Swapping in that you're near-blindly swapping for a Pokemon you just fought, and you won't see said Trainer again in your current 7-Trainer challenge). If the Battle Maison removed things like rental Pokemon and "temporarily swapping your own Pokemon for a foe's Pokemon, with your OWN Pokemon having the potential to be used by the foe in an upcoming match", then I can see how Battle Maison dampens what the PWT included.

Coming off that point, rental Pokemon needs to become a standard in future generations (as in, each region needs a Battle Factory, and/or a Battle Tower-like facility where you can rent Pokemon (there can be an option to manually pick what you start with or randomize what you get) at the start but can't swap during the challenge); the sheer randomness of rentals already increases replayability (arguably, it infinitely increases it, at least in my opinion) since I can't just "expect/predict" what Pokemon I'll use or what I'll face (while you can 'predict' certain trends in the facilities (as in, you likely won't run into a legendary Pokemon on your first match, though there's a Generation 3 exception that's due to the Mixing Records mechanic), you can't outright know what you'll face (or in Battle Factories, what you'll be offered) unless you're facing a facility boss who has a predetermined team.

As for the "Contest" replacement in XY, I'll consent that there doesn't really seem to be an equivalent aside from the Pokemon-amie (at least you have 718-721 sets of Pokemon interactions to observe!)...

The amount of "post-game" technically depends on your definition of what consists of/counts as "post-game" - do you desire infinite replayability (such as, no Pokemon battle is alike - this is more evident in Battle Tower-like facilities) in your save file, or do you just want stuff to do? (like additional plot events, sidequests and the like, all of which typically will end eventually). As for my own definition of "post-game", it's "Without restarting my game file, after I've beaten the Elite 4 and Champion (and Red, for Pokemon Gold/Silver/Crystal/HeartGold/SoulSilver Versions. From what I've heard, Pokemon Black/White Versions play with this a little due to a certain turn of events on your first run, so I'll say "after I've beaten the BW Elite 4 and Champion twice") what continues to draw me back to the game each day? (aside from re-battling the Elite 4/Champion, which even Red/Blue lets you do. And the main reason I exclude "Elite/Champion" 4 rebattling is that you can eventually out-level them to the point where re-battling their weak/static teams isn't even a challenge unless you like occupying time with that sort of thing). I'm guessing that the point at which most people here consider "post-game" is either when the "plot" roughly ends (when you beat the boss of the crime syndicate of your game) when you beat the Elite 4 and Champion/see the credits roll for the FIRST time (if you want to get technical, the post-game of GSC/HGSS can also be considered as when you get all 16 Badges and beat Red for the first time at Mt. Silver, thus seeing the credits roll for a SECOND time) - even then, the point of when post-game 'starts' is up to personal opinion.


* (For an example of why "amount of post-game" depends on what you consider to be post-game, consider Pokemon FireRed/LeafGreen Versions):

Spoiler:

If I were to say that post-game is "how much 'story' and places to battle/explore is left after the credits roll?", I'd say that there's a decent chunk...aside from revisiting Kanto areas for kicks, there's the Sevii Island sidequest(s) involving visiting at least 7 islands, retrieving the Ruby and Sapphire items, defeating Team Rocket's Sevii Islands branch (strictly, only Sevii Islands 4-7 count as post-game, since Sevii Islands 1-3 are accessible right after defeating Blaine, remaining visitable before you even tackle the Kanto Elite 4), and conquering Seven Island's Trainer Tower (a pseudo-Battle Tower in that the opposing teams are static, especially if all your Pokemon are Level 100; it's worth at least 4 run-throughs due to featuring 4 different modes, resulting in 28 different floors as each mode has 7 floors exclusive to it, with each floor featuring different teams. Being time-based, there's also the personal incentive of improving your "Best Time" of beating all of the floors in each mode). There's also the VS Seeker, which increases non-Pokemon League foe Trainers' Pokemon levels slightly and provides slightly-changed pre-battle dialogue for a lot of Trainers. Finally, the 2nd-run-through of the Kanto Elite 4 and Champion use updated rosters of Pokemon, providing more incentive to challenge the Elite 4 again (these teams are used as the basis for all future Elite 4/Champion teams past your 1st run-through).

On the other hand, if I define "post-game" as "stuff for me to do even after I've finished the Sevii Island sidequests and Trainer Tower AND the "Second Wave" Kanto Elite 4", there's ridiculously little to do. The only incentives are re-battling the Elite 4/Champion (essentially pointless if all Pokemon in your party are Level 100 (as you don't get any experience points, and you can usually just effortlessly defeat them without even an iota of strategy beyond "mash the A button; insta-KO") and your wallet has reached its capacity (meaning that all the reward money that you get after winning goes to waste) and improving your time in Trainer Tower (the static teams don't help for replay value, and I think at some point you stop getting rewards for improving your time). At least all the proper "Battle Towers" in post-FR/LG games randomize the opponent Pokemon somewhat.

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From my experience, handheld main series Pokemon post-game pretty much consists of 3 things:

*Battling - I mostly mean Trainer battles, though wild Pokemon battles can technically count. The best example would probably be the Battle Tower and its derivatives, including the PWT

In my eyes, these provide infinite replayability as there is an attempt to randomize the foes (although I really don't know what happens after you beat battling facility bosses or reach a 999-win streak in a battling facility.. XD My assumption is that you just continue fighting tough foes after the 50-win streak, where permissible legendaries can appear often, in an attempt to maintain/improve your streak until you lose.), and the games setting your foes to be of an equal level to your own Pokemon helps make the fight more fair (so you can't just out-level mow everyone in the Battle Tower and call it a day), despite the intense hax that the computer Trainers can pull off.

*Exploring -mainly, finding new items and/or unseen/uncaught Pokemon for the Pokedex, talking to people that have new dialogue (such as in plot-based events)), and

*Diversions - essentially everything else that is an alternative to battling, Game Corners, "mini-games" (off the top of my head, the Wireless Adapter mini-games of Generation 3, the "Wobbuffet Pop" thing and its counterpart in Pokemon Platinum Version, the Dream World stuff in Generation 5, etc.) Pokemon Contests, Johto's Bug-Catching Contest, Pokemon HeartGold/SoulSilver Version's Pokeathlon, Pokemon Musicals, PokeStar Studio movies, enhancing Unova's Join Avenue), and, if you're desperate, Berry farming/caretaking/hunting.


OTHER "DIVERSIONS":

Spoiler:

*While Contests (I'm mostly referring to their Generation 3 incarnation) can be done prior to beating the Elite 4/Champion, I mostly count them as part of post-game, as Master Rank Contests randomize your foes, and some Contest Pokemon are as "contest-capable" as your own Pokemon at those levels, providing a decent non-battling diversion. Additionally, a major part of Contests is optimizing your Pokemon via Pokeblocks and Scarves, and some of the readily-accessible "high-tier" Pokeblocks (namely, the ones used when you insert a Durin or Watmel Berry) are only accessible from the Berry Master's wife post-Elite 4 when you have access to roaming Latios/Latias, and you usually need the optimal Pokeblocks to obtain the Contest Scarves that allow you to stand a decent chance in Master Rank Contests. Although if you manage to obtain both Lati@s pre-Elite 4/Champion defeat or even visit Mirage Island (which contains the Liechi Berry, said to outclass all the other Berries obtainable within Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald through normal gameplay), "optimal Pokeblocks being restricted to post-Elite 4" becomes a non-issue.
*For those who want to do it, while breeding can be done pre-Elite 4/Champion defeat, I count breeding as "post-game" nowadays (Emerald Version and onwards) since much better breeding tools are available by then, like:
**Ditto, Smeargle, and the "IV Checker Man" in Emerald, as well as access to Battle Frontier Move Tutor moves that also serve as Egg Moves for certain Pokemon
**Moves only learned at higher levels (easier to be attained once you have higher-level Pokemon, which will likely require you to beat the game at least once - an example is if you want a Level 50 Heracross that has Megahorn, which is only learned by Heracross by level-up at Level 53, and otherwise has to be bred onto Heracross), and

**You have access to most Pokemon in-game (Emerald makes a lot of Johto Pokemon available in the Safari Zone once you beat the Elite 4, for example)

*For those who want to do it, Shiny Hunting can be done right when you get your first Pokemon in the game, although it seems this would be better relegated to a post-game activity since you can find better tools (as in, you don't have any plot-based obstacles that prevent you from visiting areas, and as someone mentioned earlier, some games let you get the PokeRadar after beating the Elite 4/Champion. B2W2 especially lets you get the Shiny Charm, making the task much easier).

As for XY, I think it satisfies the "battling" post-game nicely, as you have the Battle Maison (the primary draw, IMO, especially as opponent Pokemon are randomized), Battle Chateau, and Battle Institute (and the Inverse Battles building). The major "battling post-game" mis-steps IMO are that XY doesn't feature a Challenge Mode or VS Seeker (like B2W2 and FR/LG, respectively), doesn't increase the levels of the party Pokemon of the Elite 4 and Champion (done as early as FR/LG), doesn't allow Sky Battle rematches ("Sky Battles" essentially being another battle mode, which could've seen use somewhere like the Battle Maison and multiplayer battles), and doesn't allow non-Chateau Gym Leader rematches (done as early as Emerald, although I guess that their Chateau cameos are basically meant to emulate the Fighting Dojo's Gym Leader rematches in HG/SS..?). In terms of battling post-game, XY already supersedes Pokemon Ruby/Sapphire Versions, as they have more than just a regular "Battle Tower" and "re-battling NPC Trainers/the Elite 4 and Champion" (at the bare minimum). Pokemon Gold/Silver Versions are also surpassed, as those don't even have a Battle Tower like their companion Pokemon Crystal Version (pre-Red, Gold/Silver have decent post-game; post-Red, Gold/Silver's battling post-game is even worse than that of Ruby/Sapphire, as you can only re-battle the Elite 4/Champion). And as mentioned, one can always participate in real-life multiplayer Pokemon battles, arguably providing even more variation/replayability than an in-game Battle Tower ever could.
*While Battle Chateau and Battle Institute can apparently be "completed" before beating the Elite 4/Champion, I consider them as post-game due to them offering multiple opponents that can be repeatedly fought. If the Battle Institute randomizes foe Pokemon using the Battle Maison's Pokemon, then it can easily be used as post-game due to the variety in opponents. As for Battle Chateau, while some of it can be completed before post-game, the time it likely takes to be able to contend with Diantha's ~Level 60 (~Level 80 with the best Writ of Challenge, from what I've read) Pokemon practically mandates that you "live" (AKA constantly battle in) the Battle Chateau for hours on end, when you could have probably completed the pre-game and relegate the Battle Chateau for some sufficient post-game in the same amount of time.

In terms of "exploring" post-game, the Looker side-quest and Kalos hotels seem OK, although I guess the real meat is Kiloude City (which unlocks Battle Maison and the "Friend Safari" Zone, IIRC) and the legendary Pokemon. While the Battle Maison area being restricted to post-game is in line with what past games have done, Safari Zones have been available prior to post-game before (at least the Friend Safari has a little to compensate with in the form of Ditto with flawless IVs and Pokemon with Hidden Abilities)... Due to XY's low "new Pokemon count", the amount of available in-game legendaries post-game is a little low, and apparently depends mostly on pre-Kalos legends, too (I'd compare it somewhat to Ruby/Sapphire, which has just Rayquaza and Lati@s available post-game, although at least those were introduced with Hoenn). Game Freak *could've* ramp up the amount of post-game in-game Generation 6 legendaries, but then you run the risk of fans criticizing the game for there being "too many legendary Pokemon". As for the number of new in-game locations to explore, it doesn't have any aside from Kiloude City, from what I've read, which is slightly worse than Ruby/Sapphire (which only has the Battle Tower area/"LaRousse City", S.S. Tidal, and Rayquaza's Sky Pillar in post-game).

Spoiler:

*As for my own opinion, Ruby/Sapphire makes up for the lack of "post-game" exploring area with "pseudo-post-game", such as the large amount of secluded underwater areas. Yeah, you can explore most of them before the post-game, but most people already seem sick of all of Hoenn's surfing, so I don't think those players would be inclined to explore underwater (excluding plot-based times like Seafloor Cavern and Sootopolis City) prior to defeating the Elite 4/Champion anyway XD, thus relegating them to post-game. Arguably, the routes that you initially sail on with Mr. Briney are rather forgettable once you have Surf/Fly (as you're mostly "pushed" to go east on Hoenn's water rather than backtrack west on water, and there's not much reason to revisit the areas near/of Rustboro City and Dewford Town aside from wild Pokemon) - Regice's location (Island Cave) alone makes you go well out of your way west while Surfing; I personally didn't even visit that area until post-game.) And then there's visiting Pacifidlog Town and the Regi side-quest (both of which can be visited/completed before the post-game). I personally relegated both more towards the post-game, as Pacifidlog requires me to go west (whereas normally, after the 8th badge, I'd be "spurred" towards getting towards Ever Grande City since it houses the Elite 4/Champion, and I'm near there anyway while in Sootopolis). As for the Regi side-quest, it's rather time-consuming as it requires you to (usually) translate Braille writing, requires several HMs and one TM (Dig) in Ruby/Sapphire on top of a lot of precise Surfing due to water currents (not to mention that you'll have to hunt for the uncommon Relicanth and either catch or train a Wailord, and contend with all the people you encounter while getting to Sealed Chamber in the first place); in sum, the time, preparation, and effort required just makes me see the "Regi side-quest" more as an activity best left for post-game...

*Additionally, I'm not really counting any event-based activity/Pokemon as post-game throughout this post, as that depends on whether the player can even access the event or not, and a lot are roughly the equivalent of side-quests (time will tell whether any XY events last longer than the XY Looker side-quests or not). From the looks of it, all handheld main series Pokemon games beyond Gold/Silver seem to have had decent "event post-game", with 1-3+ legendary Pokemon involved, and XY looks like it'll satisfy that field (with the 3 unrevealed Pokemon as of now, as well as potential Mega Evolutions).

In terms of "diversion" post-game, the only things I can think of are Pokemon-amie (not sure how much time this occupies, but again, you have at least 718-721 different Pokemon interactions to experience), Super Training (although it can potentially be made useless with Horde EV abuse, it does offer the incentive of a Ribbon for each Pokemon that completes the regimen, and a Medal for Trainers, IIRC), Clothing/Trainer customization (a lot of stores seem to have expensive clothing (and one even rotates it stock daily, it seems), so if you care that much about clothes, it'll take you a while to earn the money to buy all of them), Mega Stone hunting (though this can diminish once you have all of them), and Berry farming. XY fails (like BW and B2W2 did) in offering a suitable Game Corner equivalent.. Are there any mini-games in Kalos aside from Pokemon-amie and Super Training? If all else fails, you can go "Ribbon hunting" (for each Pokemon that you own) as well as Medal hunting (for yourself, if you're aiming for "100% Completion"), both of which can use up a bit of time.



This.



Agreed; breeding seems much more enjoyable in XY as good IVs are much easier to obtain, although sometimes it seems like less of an "activity" and more of a "chore" (to remain competitively viable)....at least for me, it does. The main reason I even bother to endure the monotony of breeding alone is largely for battling purposes (and I'm speaking from my experiences from Sapphire and Emerald Versions, where the recently-introduced perks for Everstone (as in, 100% guaranteed Nature inheritance, not 50% like it was in Emerald or being nonexistent in Sapphire's case), Power items, infinite TMs, and Destiny Knot don't even exist, so ). I've only gotten 1 Shiny Pokemon from breeding (a Surskit, which I lost), so I'm not too inclined to hunt for Shiny Pokemon in Emerald (which has its own host of shiny-hunting-by-breeding issues due to the RNG "error").



In this case, there's still Battle Maison+Chateau+Institute, along with Inverse Battles, in-game. If you're more of a "diversion post-game" person, then I can see how there isn't much to do, as there's no "Contest" or "Game Corner" (especially if you've maxed the Affection and Effort Values (EVs) of all of your Pokemon already on top of completing the Pokedex and finding all of the Mega Stones). If you're not inclined towards in-game or multiplayer battles either, the best I can suggest in XY (without having played the game) is going Ribbon Hunting (for each of your Pokemon, which includes completing Super Training mini-games ;D) and Medal Hunting for 100% completion!



Thanks for the list. On skimming it, some are a bit sub-par (a lot of them let you obtain an item that you can easily obtain with little effort if you're rich in-game :P), but at least the game give you SOMETHING to look forward to daily.



Um, I thought the point of post-game WAS to keep you occupied (somehow) once you've beaten the post-game..? I agree about how including breeding/shiny hunting by default doesn't mean that the post-game can be skimped on... As for legendary hunting, I haven't played most main Pokemon games aside from Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald and FireRed, but I thought "3" was the usual number of post-game Pokemon available (By "legendary hunting", I'm assuming you mean strictly post-game...? Not sure whether the Legendary Dogs/Beasts of Johto are available pre-E4 or post-E4, but they hardly count as post-game IMO since the Kanto Legendary birds of RBY were available pre-E4 in Red/Blue when they could've easily been moved to post-E4 to account for more "legendary Pokemon post-game" alongside Mewtwo).

I'm just wondering if XY had featured more new legendary Pokemon post-game excluding Xerneas, Yveltal, Zygarde, and event Pokemon (aside from a legendary "Legendary Bird-esque" trio, which can be situated before post-game), whether people would be switch from bashing them on account of "no post-game" to bashing them for including too many legendary Pokemon (which DPPt and BW/B2W2 repeatedly get criticized for by some people, even today). I'm guessing Hoenn sort of hit the magic number, as I hardly see anyone comment about Generation 3 introducing "too many legendaries"...? (excluding non-Rayquaza version mascot, event Pokemon, and the 3 Regis, Rayquaza and one of Lati@s can be caught post-game in Ruby/Sapphire. Zygarde essentially equals Rayquaza, so had a non-mascot legendary trio been introduced as well, it seems like XY would only need one more legendary Pokemon to satisfy the "legendary hunting" role yet avoid criticism from the "Too many legendaries! OMGWHYY" part of the fandom).

If you criticize XY about lack of POST-game legendary hunting (having 3, despite using 2 older legends), you should regard Ruby/Sapphire post-game legendary hunting as just as bad or even worse (since that has only 2 legends post-game if you don't count the Regis, albeit both of them being introduced in Generation 3). I agree that XY still deserve criticism for re-using 2 legends for part of its post-game along with introducing no non-version mascot legendary trio for either pre-game or post-game.

Do you want more diversions or explorable areas in post-game...? Excluding those and Pokedex completion, there's not much to "actively pursue once the main journey is over" in most Pokemon games aside from side-quests and battling facilities... The mere inclusion of the Battle Maison in XY (which has four modes like FR/LG's Trainer Tower with "bosses" AND randomizes opponents, unlike FireRed/LeafGreen's Trainer Tower's static teams) alone, with the multitude of Ribbons and Medals up for grabs (both of which FR/LG largely lack, if you discount the Indigo Plateau's unseen "Champion Ribbon"), makes it hard for me to believe that XY has an emptier post-game than FireRed/LeafGreen. XY even lets you re-battle Gym Leaders in some way (Battle Chateau), whereas FireRed/LeafGreen does not.

Even with having things like all Level 100 Pokemon as well as a maxxed wallet, Affection, EVs, Ribbons, AND Medals, I feel that there would still be stuff for me to do in XY (namely, Battle Maison/Institute) compared to if I had a maxxed wallet and Levels in FR/LG. However, in terms of explorable areas, then yes, I would be inclined to agree that XY's post-game is indeed emptier than that of FR/LG.



I'm going to have to disagree on Ruby/Sapphire "[having] no post-game" (aside from Legendary Hunting) as well. If you mean in terms of explorable areas, there's still the Battle Tower, SS Tidal, and the Sky Pillar (while it overlaps with Legendary Hunting as it contains a legendary Pokemon, it still counts as a new area as it's blocked off before you defeat the Elite 4/Champion). (These are less of examples, but the Abandoned Ship and the large secluded Underwater areas can also count if someone happened to forget about them before the post-game).

Even discounting post-game exploration, you also have Secret Base Battles (only accessible upon beating Hoenn Elite 4/Champion) that can be done once daily (if you mix records again in the same day, they can be re-fought more than once), where you can fight against the teams of the Trainers that you mix records with and can potentially net more experience than what the entire Hoenn Elite 4/Champion can give you. Although Contests can be done post-game, they can still be suitable for post-game as Master Rank Contests provide some sort of "randomized variation" with Pokemon with optimized Contest Conditions and movepools that are roughly on par to the player's, and I highly doubt that most players will beat Master Rank in all 5 Contests, get each Contest's corresponding Scarf (to boost Contest Condition), AND get Contest all 5 Contest category Paintings for the Lilycove Art Museum all before beating the Elite 4/Champion, especially since you have to wait until Lilycove City to blend decent Pokeblocks if you don't have reliable multiplayer Pokeblock, and by that point, the player is likely going to explore the rest of Lilycove as well, especially Team Magma/Aqua's Hideout base (an area which helps to further the plot, once one finishes exploring it and "allows enough time" for the docked submarine in there to depart).

I can't say much for Diamond/Pearl, but the Battle Tower (primarily due to its non-static teams) at least leads to a better post-game in DP than in FR/LG, IMO. And I would guess you could also compete at Super Contests and collect Ribbons (the price of the Ribbon Syndicate's Gorgeous Royal Ribbon alone should net several hours of post-game play-time), so there's those as well. Maybe the Underground could provide some sort of distraction for a while, but I'm unfamiliar with that place. I agree with you in that most Pokemon games more or less have the same amount of post-game content, though, even FR/LG.

It seems that the "worst post-game" would be Red/Blue (although those games came "first", so it seems that people give those games a pass, even excluding Mewtwo and Cerulean Cave), Gold/Silver (post-Red battle, there's nothing to do except re-battle Elite 4/Champion and possibly Bug-Catching Contests), and/or FireRed/LeafGreen (post-Sevii Island sidequests and Trainer Tower completion, there's nothing to do except re-battle the updated teams of the Elite 4/Champion)...

Regarding Gold/Silver, though, can't you continue to do the Bug-Catching Contest in post-game like in HG/SS? If so, that's a *slight* edge over the post-games that RBY and FR/LG have to offer...



This, although I don't think Friend Safari is enough of a substitute, since it's more or less a Safari Zone which could've been put before the post-game (and most people seem to care about just Ditto first and foremost in there, followed by anything with a Hidden Ability, moreso Kanto and Kalos starter Pokemon). Additionally, Friend Safari depends on who's on your Friend List (I'm presuming that adding people there requires either local wireless play or an Internet connection, which some people may have difficulty getting), so my impression is that Friend Safari can either be an amazing or useless addition to the post-game of XY.

I feel like if XY had a non version-mascot trio and 1 or 2 more legendary Pokemon available in-game during post-game (excluding Xerneas, Yveltal, Zygrade, Mewtwo, and the Legendary Birds), then "Legendary Hunting" would feel more fulfilling for some players...



You make a good point, although like with the Hoenn-based games, I hardly hear of anyone who spends the time to complete all 5 Master Ranks in Sinnoh's Super Contests BEFORE the post-game, so I would think that most players try out Super Contests before the post-game, but stop and wait to continue where they left off after they beat the Sinnoh Elite 4/Champion (as you're in a better position to collect all the Berries for Poffins and stuff)...



This. Regarding legendaries, even though we now have a very high number, I feel like we have to continue with them as post-game... What are we going to do, NOT have any more legendaries beyond Generation 6? The post-game is already limited as it is (if you include legendary hunting as an aspect of it). No post-game legendaries at all would just seem very weird, and I feel like each new generation should have at least 2-3 new legendary Pokemon post-game (with the legendary version mascot, if any, being before the post-game, and any non-version mascot legendary trios being "flexible" (as in, they can be caught before post-game, but are just as fitting as a post-game activity, like the Regis of Hoenn)).



This; HG/SS is just ridiculous in the amount of post-game stuff you can do; it's just so mesmerizing (and it's disappointing that certain features that make sense in later generations, like Gym Leader re-battling, continues to get left out on occasion...even if you're planning 3rd version or future Pokemon games, it's not like you have to make paired versions suck on purpose). Don't forget collecting Ribbons, Poke Ball Seals, taking pictures, and finding Shiny Leaves/Shiny Crown for your Pokemon, on top of Apricorn/Berry Farming! Even from an audio perspective, one still has incentive to wander around Johto and Kanto listening to all of the GB Sounds 8-bit (?) remixes. And even though HG/SS re-uses the Sinnoh Battle Frontier of Platinum, you still have randomized foes to keep you busy. IMO, the only thing HG/SS was missing in terms of post-game was the Pokemon Super Contests of Sinnoh, and it seems like the only reason those were excluded were to give Pokeathlon some spotlight and still provide a degree of "exclusivity" to DPPt's feature(s) aside from Sinnoh's starter and legendary Pokemon.

I agree; there's not a really a reason to make Trevor, Shauna, and Tierno non-battleable daily outside of battling facilities, given that past games have allowed rival battles (and while Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald only has one rival who is battleable at random times throughout the days/weeks/months, you can essentially have like "4+" daily, useful 'rival battles' if you mix records and partake in Secret Base Battles with people who have strong Pokemon)... Unless Game Freak is planning to make all the rivals battleable daily in a potential third version, although I say make the paired versions the best games they can be, don't intentionally withhold content for a "third game".



Not everyone is able to have constant Internet access with a 3DS; some people are still in remote areas. The "3D models" thing is more of an art choice, and the art style doesn't make up for lack of post-game, IMO (although Pokemon-amie presumably did take a lot of work for 718-721+ Pokemon interactions, so there is that.. :<). Pokemon Battle Revolution introduced clothing customization a while back, so it's been a long time coming for the feature to be implemented in the main series handheld games (and, like in real-life, if you don't care about clothes or put little time in choosing what you wear, that feature essentially does nothing for you except things like eye color and skin tone, which are useless if you don't intend to customize your character at all).

The "3D character cutscenes" I can't comment well on, but a lot of DS and even 3DS games can manage those and still provide adequate post-game content.

Mega Evolution is potentially a game-changer, but there's nothing that says that it's sticking around after Generation 6 (as it is dependent on items, and items can be blocked from cross-generation transfer, as Pokemon Bank and PokeTransfer show). Even then (this is a bit subjective), a lot of desired Mega Evolutions didn't come about, and several Pokemon who didn't need one (Garchomp, Blaziken, Mewtwo; and Charizard getting TWO of them while other starter Pokemon got none) still got one.

All the third versions (except Yellow Version) seem to have good post-game content, but I don't want to restrict the good post-game content to just the third versions. Gym Leaders rematches and Challenge Mode can easily become a mainstay for paired versions as well, not just "Battle Tower" and "Pokemon Contest replacement" gen in and gen out.

LOL at your Ellie Goulding quote. XD



If other RPGs at the time of Red/Blue's release had more post-game (as in, more than the amount of time it takes to explore Cerulean Cave and battle/catch Mewtwo), I don't see why Red/Blue should be exempt simply because they were first.. :/ At the very least, Yellow Version should be criticized for post-game since they had the chance to add some more things, though some may argue that the plot alteration/anime integration was sufficient enough and compensates for the lack of new post-game content.. You make a good point for the other features that XY managed to bring about, though (although Wonder Trade is useless for Trainers who get crappy Pokemon from it; then again, the point of Wonder Trade is based on chance..).



The "Elite 4 getting updated in levels" needs to be a standard in paired versions; I mean, the now-outdated FR/LG managed to introduce/include it, why can't XY? And Emerald Version lacks that "boost in levels" thing, so I hope that it's not a remake-exclusive feature (which is silly, IMO, because remakes have and should have better things to offer than just "boost in levels of the Elite 4!").



Which battle facility do you mean by "Station", by chance?

I can imagine how players who "speed through the game" can feel like there's no post-game content in XY...

It feels like the "additions" in XY were mainly geared towards conveniences (for players who have played prior Pokemon games) and breeding purposes. I would figure that, at this point in the Pokemon franchise, more "daily rival battles", "boost in Elite 4" levels, "Challenge Mode", Gym Leader rematches, and VS Seeker (possibly) are features that are beneficial enough to be included in paired versions of main series games, and should've been included in XY. Not to mention that the Sky Battle mechanic (despite its flaws) and the Inverse Battle mechanic could've seen extensive use in post-game, at least for multiplayer battles and the Battle Maison, Chateau, and Institute!

OK; I think I'm done...finally. XD If you read most/all of this, thank you so very much. >.<

----

TL;DR - XY post-game is arguably lacking and certainly could've been improved, but it shouldn't be criticized TOO harshly...

(It took me way more hours than I thought it did to write all of this..? XD *shudders*)

All of my points were in direct relation to the main storyline games.
Really I think the distaste with post game content is because a huge amount of people ran through the game too fast. Inreatarted x weeks ago, I have 7 badges now on x and over 90 hours.
& for a friendly disagreement I do think that the 3d models and overhaul of entire game style would take away from development time for alot of post game stuff.
&& the super training / pkmn amie do not need internet, also unlike bw you don't need internet to use o powers ( entree powers new cousin ) you can access them right from the bottom screen at any time, instead of having to save and warp somewhere just to access missions where you get the use of game perks
To be honest
I am disappointed with the post game, I have been since I first beat x, but yet again, I cannot blame game freak/ pokemon for my disappointment, it is a main story pkmn game and probably the best so far, but just as I was worried about ( and this is isn't directed to you ) when Pokémon would take the step over to 3d and refresh the series, people wouldn't appreciate it as a pkmn game anymore they would instantly throw it into categories with other video games and start comparing it to ( I don't know some guy even said it should have been as expansive as a final fantasy game lol ) at the end of the day you gotta come to terms with it being another Pokémon game, even though it has this new face and its dressed up more nice than ever was, its still gonna be a Pokémon game. ** went a little off topic but I believe it ties in with my argument that the lack of post game content could be charged to the fact that this is a huge step for development when it comes to the main games.

 

[大輔]

All of my points were in direct relation to the main storyline games.
Really I think the distaste with post game content is because a huge amount of people ran through the game too fast. Inreatarted x weeks ago, I have 7 badges now on x and over 90 hours.
& for a friendly disagreement I do think that the 3d models and overhaul of entire game style would take away from development time for alot of post game stuff.
&& the super training / pkmn amie do not need internet, also unlike bw you don't need internet to use o powers ( entree powers new cousin ) you can access them right from the bottom screen at any time, instead of having to save and warp somewhere just to access missions where you get the use of game perks
To be honest
I am disappointed with the post game, I have been since I first beat x, but yet again, I cannot blame game freak/ pokemon for my disappointment, it is a main story pkmn game and probably the best so far, but just as I was worried about ( and this is isn't directed to you ) when Pokémon would take the step over to 3d and refresh the series, people wouldn't appreciate it as a pkmn game anymore they would instantly throw it into categories with other video games and start comparing it to ( I don't know some guy even said it should have been as expansive as a final fantasy game lol ) at the end of the day you gotta come to terms with it being another Pokémon game, even though it has this new face and its dressed up more nice than ever was, its still gonna be a Pokémon game. ** went a little off topic but I believe it ties in with my argument that the lack of post game content could be charged to the fact that this is a huge step for development when it comes to the main games.

You're right about speeding through. Let's not forget the assistance of EXP Share. And please, whoever responds to this post saying "I didn't use EXP Share and I got through the game just as fast.." Or something like that... I'm just speaking for the overall use of it. It speeds up progress regardless if you believe it or not. My team constantly crushed opponents because my team was balanced level wise through the entire game. Even my pikachu wrecked teams. I honestly could've done a nuzlocke with the exp share on.