Proposal: Make-a-'Mon (MAMo)

[Caaethil]

Inspired by Smogon's Create-a-Pokémon project and PokéCommunity's own Make-a-Mega series, I propose the Make-a-'Mon series! Make-a-'Mon would function very similarly to Make-a-Mega, but we'd be making whole new Pokémon!

This would be different from CAP, which I feel is important to note. It would be much less serious and more for fun - Smogon is very competitive and there is always the goal of learning something from every CAP project. We just wanna make Pokemon, bro. Our process would be much shorter and condensed into one thread, very similar to how MAMe (Make-a-Mega) works.

To start a MAMo project, I would make a thread in the Battling & Team Building section. The process would go as follows (and yes, this is very similar to the CAP process, Smogon has been tuning this formula for years):

1. Concept Discussion: Members submit concepts - a rough theme for the Pokémon. Examples: "fast glass cannon", "underrated Pokémon's crutch". Nothing that should be determined in the future can be suggested here. For example, "speedy Rock-Type" is a no-go.
2. Concept Poll: Members vote for concepts that have been determined to be realistic and viable.
3. Concept Assessment: Members briefly discuss the concept decided upon to figure out the general direction we should be taking. What is the best way to go about achieving the concept? For example, if the concept was "underrated Pokémon's crutch", what Pokémon needs help? What would be the best way to help it?
4. Typing Discussion: Members discuss what kind of typing the Pokémon needs to succeed. Should it be offensive or defensive? What kind of threats does the typing needs to deal with?
5. Typing Poll: Accepted typings are voted on.
6. Ability Discussion: Members discuss possible abilities. We rule out silly ideas.
7. Ability Poll: Members vote on abilities which are accepted as good and useful to the Pokémon.
8. Stats Discussion: Members discuss possible stat spreads.
9. Stats Poll: Members vote on a stat spread that has been determined to be viable.
10. Moveset Discussion: Members submit movesets which could be useful for this Pokémon (including items and so on). Movesets are accepted based on if they would actually be viable.
11. Movepool Discussion: Members discuss the movepool, including flavour moves which would not actually be used. This includes levels at which moves are learned, TM moves, egg moves and so on.
12. Art Submissions: Members get artsy and submit designs.
13. Art Poll: Members vote on a design.
14. Name Submissions: Members submit naeme ideas.
15. Name Poll: Members vote on a name.
16. Pokédex Entry Submissions: Members submit Pokédex entries.
17. Pokédex Entry Poll: Members vote for four Pokédex entries for X, Y, Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire.
18. Finishing Up: Height, weight, all that stuff. No polls, we'll just decide because nobody cares lol.

And then I'd write an article, of course! Thanks for reading!

 

[bobandbill]

I'd like for wolf and gimmepie to, when they have time, give their feedback on this prior to any approval.

I like the general idea, and it seems you have a good plan in mind on when things happen and how. Some comments:

Our process would be much shorter and condensed into one thread, very similar to how MAMe (Make-a-Mega) works.

I feel that this doesn't quite work for the art parts of the creation - Make-a-Mega works by having a separate thread in A&D for artists to create the designs and all.

Members discuss possible abilities. We rule out silly ideas.

Who are 'we'? If members do bring up ideas, who decides what idea is 'silly'? Similarly with:

Height, weight, all that stuff. No polls, we'll just decide because nobody cares lol.

Furthermore, idk about 'nobody cares' - if members are interested enough for dex entries and etc, they should care enough about that detail as well.

 

[gimmepie]

Maybe it's just cause Make-a-Mega's my baby, but I'm feeling kind of iffy on this. Not because it's a bad idea, but because I have concerns that the two will end up fighting for activity. Activity isn't a finite resource, so that shouldn't happen but it does.

On top of that, this looks like it's quite complex. Part of the reason Make-a-Mega works so well is because it's extremely simple. If you're going to run such a complex polling process you're going to need a lot of time (which is fine) but it might also result in people losing interest.

I also have the same concerns as bobandbill regarding the vetoing you mentioned.

If this does go ahead, I think that it should go to Pokemon General and not BTB. The reason Make-a-Mega is in BTB is because it has a strong competitive focus, whilst this project is supposedly more casual in its approach.

 

[Caaethil]

I'd like for wolf and gimmepie to, when they have time, give their feedback on this prior to any approval.

I like the general idea, and it seems you have a good plan in mind on when things happen and how. Some comments:
I feel that this doesn't quite work for the art parts of the creation - Make-a-Mega works by having a separate thread in A&D for artists to create the designs and all.

I can do that, that's not really an issue.

Who are 'we'? If members do bring up ideas, who decides what idea is 'silly'?

'We' is just everybody involved. What I mean is, I'm not adding Wonder Guard to the poll just because one troll suggests it so all the other trolls can vote for it for our Dark/Ghost type wall, for example. Or I'm not going to include Turboblaze if somebody suggests it. You get what I mean? I suppose I was a bit brief, I'm just talking about ruling out ideas through discussion and common sense. As the leader of the project it would obviously be my job to make sure no overwhelmingly disliked abilities or abilities factually proven to be poor or broken get through. I don't want trolls or people who don't understand competitive at all to come in and vote for dumb things which could ruin the project. It's the same with every stage.

Similarly with:
Furthermore, idk about 'nobody cares' - if members are interested enough for dex entries and etc, they should care enough about that detail as well.

Dex entries already have their own stage, read again. I'm talking about height, weight, species name and so on. It would have to work on a case-by-case basis - if people are really divided and really want a poll, they can have one, but I think we can nail down these little details without drawing it out. Dex entries are a lot bigger.

Maybe it's just cause Make-a-Mega's my baby, but I'm feeling kind of iffy on this. Not because it's a bad idea, but because I have concerns that the two will end up fighting for activity. Activity isn't a finite resource, so that shouldn't happen but it does.

This is a concern I can't really address other than by saying I'm not sure either is intensive enough that one will absolutely devote themselves to one and completely forget the other. That, and something doesn't quite sit right with me about limiting the number of cool projects people can participate in because you're worried people will like one more than the other. Trying to avoid making it sound like I'm calling you biased here because that's not what I'm trying to do, I'm trying to say that it doesn't seem like the best thing for the community to give cool project ideas a first come first serve in terms of what people can actually participate in.

If you can actually say with confidence both would divide the community and both would come out of it dead, then I suppose there's nothing I can do. I'm just not sure we can say that.

On top of that, this looks like it's quite complex. Part of the reason Make-a-Mega works so well is because it's extremely simple. If you're going to run such a complex polling process you're going to need a lot of time (which is fine) but it might also result in people losing interest.

It might, but you don't know until you try, do you? I don't even think it's that complex in practice. I just say "talk about X", then I say "vote on X" and we work our way through every aspect that way. Of course it's more complicated than Make-a-Mega because making a mega is just changing some aspects of an already complete Pokemon, while this is making a whole new one. That's unavoidable and if people lose interest, fair enough. I'd be running the thread, no articles would have been written yet. Nothing lost, nothing gained.

I also have the same concerns as bobandbill regarding the vetoing you mentioned.

As I said above to bobandbill, it would very much be for troll suggestions that are objectively stupid. Wonder Guard, Protean (when we've already chosen a type for a reason), Multitype, etcetera. If you can make a case for your chosen ability and support it with something other than "It's cool", then you'll be in the poll.

If this does go ahead, I think that it should go to Pokemon General and not BTB. The reason Make-a-Mega is in BTB is because it has a strong competitive focus, whilst this project is supposedly more casual in its approach.

More casual than CAP, I don't think the aim was to ever be more casual than Make-a-Mega. The concept design process and such can be quite in depth and interesting. I don't know if you've seen Smogon's CAP process, but there are more stages there than above, and each stage has its own thread with multiple pages of discussion before any polls start. They poll about three times to narrow the choices down, and your concept only gets in the poll if the topic leader determines it's not stupid after very extensive discussion. They get tons of art submissions and it's just all around crazy to watch. This would be more casual than that, but I don't think it would be particularly less competitive in focus than Make-a-Mega. I suppose this suggestion is also rooted in trying to avoid competition? I think putting them in different sections could help with that, but I really don't think general is the right thing for this, this is very much a competitive first, flavour second project, and I think putting it in General would hurt it overall.

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Despite feeling like I'm fighting both of you tooth and nail here to defend what may become my baby, I wanna say thanks for reading and critiquing, as a few things evidently did need to be clarified and maybe changed. :)

 

[gimmepie]

It's not so much one being better than the other I'm concerned about, since despite their similarities they are in essence different. So I'm not saying straight up "no" I'm just being cautious. :)

I'll think some more on it and get back to you.

 

[Caaethil]

It's not so much one being better than the other I'm concerned about, since despite their similarities they are in essence different. So I'm not saying straight up "no" I'm just being cautious. :)

I'll think some more on it and get back to you.

I just want to add that I wasn't trying to say that I think this is a better idea than Make-a-Mega, I was just agreeing that what you said was a possibility (that the community may be divided). Just making sure we're on the same page.

But yeah, the caution is definitely warranted. I would suggest though that maybe if it's the same people who would be interested in both that perhaps people would participate in both? I don't think posting in a thread and voting in some polls is a massive commitment, especially because, as you said, Make-a-Mega is rather simple (this not so much). In Make-a-Mega, you give your suggestion or you vote in the poll and that's it until the next stage. There isn't much extensive discussion that goes on so I don't feel like there's much devotion needed to participate. I just can't see anybody invested in Make-a-Mega completely quitting it to make room to participate in this.