Malevolent Mismagius
Bulky Metagross!
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I agree with Arch here, Walrein is way too broken for UU, heck if its played right it annoys even OU teams. As long as there is hail, that is.
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Metagame Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Dark Azelf
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And what about when hail isn't in play, which is the vast majority of the time? Just because something thrives in one environment of competitive play doesn't mean everyone is going to use it. A lot of niche pokemon fill specific rolls quite well, even in standard OU matches, but they're still UU. Tiering is dependent on usage, not how well a pokemon does in a certain situation or with certain weather in effect. Point being, Walrein is bulky, but still not used nearly enough to become OU. It's outclassed by many other walls in the upper tiers imo.
Dark Azelf
☽𖤐☾𓃶𐕣
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@Calum? Heracross only breaks poor stall teams. All well beat stall team should NOT be decimated by Heracross.
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.Aero
Tell Me I'm A Screwed Up Mess
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Now I think you all have talked the life out of Heracross, Donphan, and Dugtrio. I think we came to the conclusion (well most of us at least) that Heracross stays, Donphan SHOULD move down, and Dugtrio SHOULD stay.
Well yeah. I kind of wanted to bring up a different topic which is why I said that to begin with. I want to see how people feel about HeartGold and SoulSilver and how those games are going to affect the metagame. Is it going to improve some pokemon that we'd never really use to begin with (Scizor is a great example from Platinum) or will it destroy others that are at the top of their game right now?
As for me, I think it'll add a whole new level of gameplay to the metagame. I'm beginning to grow tired of it, even though it's been changing so rapidly lately. I need something new, and I really hope that it brings up some of my favorite pokemon into OU from UU. :/ Just my thoughts however though.
How do you think HG/SS will affect it?
Well yeah. I kind of wanted to bring up a different topic which is why I said that to begin with. I want to see how people feel about HeartGold and SoulSilver and how those games are going to affect the metagame. Is it going to improve some pokemon that we'd never really use to begin with (Scizor is a great example from Platinum) or will it destroy others that are at the top of their game right now?
As for me, I think it'll add a whole new level of gameplay to the metagame. I'm beginning to grow tired of it, even though it's been changing so rapidly lately. I need something new, and I really hope that it brings up some of my favorite pokemon into OU from UU. :/ Just my thoughts however though.
How do you think HG/SS will affect it?
Anti
return of the king
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I was going to post this earlier but PC starting sucking and I was out with friends for a few hours so yeah lol...
Even with a Rapid Spinner, it's really tough to make sure SR is ALWAYS off the field (or you'll become predictable and easy to take advantage of), so Yanmega is a shaky check at best. Of course it's a revenge killer, but that's natural since Heracross is so slow.
It's really not, especially since resisted CB Megahorn has a 65.55% chance of 2HKOing with SR down and Rotom having Leftovers on max hp/max def Rotom. (Megahorn does up to 52% lol.) If it has any prior damage, it's toast. Even Gengar can muster better than that. Rotom is just a really terrible check for Heracross. Honestly I wouldn't even include it since it's just too weak and Heracross is just too strong.
And yeah, I agree about counters as I'm sure you know, but Rotom isn't even a solid check since it loses to 75% of Hera's moveset. That's like saying Metagross is a Garchomp check because it takes Outrage.
Min Atk Dusclops Fire Punch does 33.89% - 40.53% on min hp/min def Heracross. That's not really dealing with it lol. Even with 216 Atk )160 EVs to get there), Dusclops barely misses getting up to 50% on Heracross with the attack, and by then its defenses are beginning to crumble anyway. Dusclops is probably a good switch-in to Heracross to scout what move it's using, but it can't actually beat Heracross so, like Rotom, it's a pretty terrible way of dealing with it.
And Weezing DOES lose. Flamethrower from min SAtk Weezing does 49% max. SD Stone Edge will kill Weezing before Weezing kills Heracross. It doesn't need Flame Orb to beat Weezing. Granted, it will take a lot of damage, but that just leaves Fighting-type #2 with a free hand against most of the remaining 5- Pokemon...and it's not like 50% kills Heracross. The Smogon standard Elemental Weezing fares a bit better with 80 more SAtk EVs, but it still only has a 33% chance of 2HKOing Heracross with Flamethrower, though it is 92% with SR down. I mean, Weezing only gets in one hit anyway, but I'm including this because Stone Edge likes to miss like a lot lol, but even with that, Heracross has a good chance of bringing Weezing down with it. But yeah, Weezing doesn't really "nail" it since it barely 2HKOes in the best of circumstances. Or you could rely on the ever unreliable Fire Blast, but unless Stone edge misses, Weezing still loses anyway, only it has a chance of not hurting Heracross at all.
Heracross is much less prediction-reliant than you think. I mean, resisted Megahorn does 91% minimum to min hp/min def Swellow. Granted, it's super fragile, but the point I'm making is that unless you're running something really bulky like Dusclops or Registeel, Heracross can just power through Pokemon whether or not they resist its STAB attacks. This isn't OU where you have Intimidate Gyarados and Salamence and several other Bug resists (Heatran, Infernape, and Scizor especially) and Fighting resists (Latias, Gliscor, Gengar, Celebi, Starmie, etc.) There's still stuff in UU that can buffer Heracross to an extent, but there isn't nearly as much stuff in UU that can actually do that. For example, a 72 HP/min def Altaria (aka the DD set on Smogon) is taking 55% min from CC or Megahorn, and that's only if Heracross predicts poorly. Even the defensive set takes up to 39%, and a little prior damage and SR means Altaria loses. Stone Edge means the same thing as well lol.
Granbull and Ursaring only have one STAB to Heracross' two, they are much slower, and predicting wrong with unSTABed 80 base power Crunch is MUCH different than the same bad prediction with STABed 120 base power CC or Megahorn. Did I mention Guts, lol? Actually I haven't, but with that, it's just a massacre. Then stuff likes Dusclops is 2HKOed by Megahorn (50% min with guts on max hp/max def Clops, btw). Don't forget that Heracross has very goood defensive typing with its Ground and Fighting resists, and underpowered attacks are no match for Heracross' 226 min SDef.
I mean yeah, you can revenge kill it, but can't you revenge kill Staraptor as well? Wasn't that the big threat of the original 6 suspects? Revenge killing is good enough defense for your team if you're fighting a bunch of Pokemon that need to set up to start killing things (like SD Garchomp, CM Latias, or even SD Hera lol), but it's so faulty for Choice attackers since you can force them out by bringing in something that resists their attack anyway. Specs Rayquaza wouldn't be OU because Mamoswine can Ice Shard or because Heatran can come in after Draco Meteor or Fire Blast. It just doesn't work that way lol. Obviously, revenge killers would keep the normally-overpowered SDCross in check for the most part (even though it can run Jolly and outspeed a lot), but CBCross just goes "oh, interesting" and switches out. It doesn't lose any boosts or take any damage besides SR coming in again, and it takes a few turns for that to really accumulate.
Back to Heracross being prediction-reliant (even though I'm confident in my argument I used earlier), I just want to point out that this is true for so-called Uber CBChomp as well. If it Earthquakes, some of the most powerful Pokemon in the Game switch in for free. Ditto with Fire Fang/Blast, only it's even easier. Outrage? Powerful, but it's locked in and it's basically a dead man. Is it not just as costly (actually probably much more costly) to mispredict with Garchomp, the Pokemon you and most others have deemed Uber? Garchomp does nothing if it uses EQ when Mence comes in - if Mismagius comes in on Megahorn (resist) instead of CC, it loses almost always with SR down (and by that I mean it gets OHKOed). UU's walls are generally much less capable of taking Heracross' attacks to the point where resistances almost don't matter unless you're switching in Steelix or one of the juggernauts. It's not that good stall teams don't have those, but then what happens if Heracross predicts correctly? Then you lose and Heracross can Megahorn through your team (or have a good chance of doing so). Yeah, "if Heracross predicts wrong" it could be forced out, but it could also do a ton of damage first or even threaten to 2HKO. Then you have to ask "what if Heracross predicts correctly"? Then it's just a massacre.
Again, this is all theorymon, but damage calculations don't lie either. Heracross has enough power to plow through max hp/max def Pokemon that resist its STABs, which only happens if its user can't predict for pie. If that doesn't scream offensive characteristic (or even support, much in the same vain as Specs Latios), I don't know what does.
However, your point is interesting about a stall breaker being good for UU. while this might be true (and probably is), you can't send Giratina into OU to help halt offensive teams either. If it's broken, it's broken, regardless of its impacts (positive or negative) on the metagame.
@AeroForce: None of the Pokemon have even been tested, so just closing the discussion on them with "most believe conclusion x for pokemon a and most believe conclusion y for Pokemon b" is premature, especially when we've hardly discussed it at all. Also, with HG/SS, we don't have any knowledge of what changes to the metagame it could bring about (aka move tutors) as far as I know, unless Serebii just doesn't update stuff at all.
Dark_Azelf said:
Even with a Rapid Spinner, it's really tough to make sure SR is ALWAYS off the field (or you'll become predictable and easy to take advantage of), so Yanmega is a shaky check at best. Of course it's a revenge killer, but that's natural since Heracross is so slow.
Dark_Azelf said:
It's really not, especially since resisted CB Megahorn has a 65.55% chance of 2HKOing with SR down and Rotom having Leftovers on max hp/max def Rotom. (Megahorn does up to 52% lol.) If it has any prior damage, it's toast. Even Gengar can muster better than that. Rotom is just a really terrible check for Heracross. Honestly I wouldn't even include it since it's just too weak and Heracross is just too strong.
And yeah, I agree about counters as I'm sure you know, but Rotom isn't even a solid check since it loses to 75% of Hera's moveset. That's like saying Metagross is a Garchomp check because it takes Outrage.
Dark_Azelf said:
Min Atk Dusclops Fire Punch does 33.89% - 40.53% on min hp/min def Heracross. That's not really dealing with it lol. Even with 216 Atk )160 EVs to get there), Dusclops barely misses getting up to 50% on Heracross with the attack, and by then its defenses are beginning to crumble anyway. Dusclops is probably a good switch-in to Heracross to scout what move it's using, but it can't actually beat Heracross so, like Rotom, it's a pretty terrible way of dealing with it.
And Weezing DOES lose. Flamethrower from min SAtk Weezing does 49% max. SD Stone Edge will kill Weezing before Weezing kills Heracross. It doesn't need Flame Orb to beat Weezing. Granted, it will take a lot of damage, but that just leaves Fighting-type #2 with a free hand against most of the remaining 5- Pokemon...and it's not like 50% kills Heracross. The Smogon standard Elemental Weezing fares a bit better with 80 more SAtk EVs, but it still only has a 33% chance of 2HKOing Heracross with Flamethrower, though it is 92% with SR down. I mean, Weezing only gets in one hit anyway, but I'm including this because Stone Edge likes to miss like a lot lol, but even with that, Heracross has a good chance of bringing Weezing down with it. But yeah, Weezing doesn't really "nail" it since it barely 2HKOes in the best of circumstances. Or you could rely on the ever unreliable Fire Blast, but unless Stone edge misses, Weezing still loses anyway, only it has a chance of not hurting Heracross at all.
Dark_Azelf said:
Heracross is much less prediction-reliant than you think. I mean, resisted Megahorn does 91% minimum to min hp/min def Swellow. Granted, it's super fragile, but the point I'm making is that unless you're running something really bulky like Dusclops or Registeel, Heracross can just power through Pokemon whether or not they resist its STAB attacks. This isn't OU where you have Intimidate Gyarados and Salamence and several other Bug resists (Heatran, Infernape, and Scizor especially) and Fighting resists (Latias, Gliscor, Gengar, Celebi, Starmie, etc.) There's still stuff in UU that can buffer Heracross to an extent, but there isn't nearly as much stuff in UU that can actually do that. For example, a 72 HP/min def Altaria (aka the DD set on Smogon) is taking 55% min from CC or Megahorn, and that's only if Heracross predicts poorly. Even the defensive set takes up to 39%, and a little prior damage and SR means Altaria loses. Stone Edge means the same thing as well lol.
Granbull and Ursaring only have one STAB to Heracross' two, they are much slower, and predicting wrong with unSTABed 80 base power Crunch is MUCH different than the same bad prediction with STABed 120 base power CC or Megahorn. Did I mention Guts, lol? Actually I haven't, but with that, it's just a massacre. Then stuff likes Dusclops is 2HKOed by Megahorn (50% min with guts on max hp/max def Clops, btw). Don't forget that Heracross has very goood defensive typing with its Ground and Fighting resists, and underpowered attacks are no match for Heracross' 226 min SDef.
I mean yeah, you can revenge kill it, but can't you revenge kill Staraptor as well? Wasn't that the big threat of the original 6 suspects? Revenge killing is good enough defense for your team if you're fighting a bunch of Pokemon that need to set up to start killing things (like SD Garchomp, CM Latias, or even SD Hera lol), but it's so faulty for Choice attackers since you can force them out by bringing in something that resists their attack anyway. Specs Rayquaza wouldn't be OU because Mamoswine can Ice Shard or because Heatran can come in after Draco Meteor or Fire Blast. It just doesn't work that way lol. Obviously, revenge killers would keep the normally-overpowered SDCross in check for the most part (even though it can run Jolly and outspeed a lot), but CBCross just goes "oh, interesting" and switches out. It doesn't lose any boosts or take any damage besides SR coming in again, and it takes a few turns for that to really accumulate.
Back to Heracross being prediction-reliant (even though I'm confident in my argument I used earlier), I just want to point out that this is true for so-called Uber CBChomp as well. If it Earthquakes, some of the most powerful Pokemon in the Game switch in for free. Ditto with Fire Fang/Blast, only it's even easier. Outrage? Powerful, but it's locked in and it's basically a dead man. Is it not just as costly (actually probably much more costly) to mispredict with Garchomp, the Pokemon you and most others have deemed Uber? Garchomp does nothing if it uses EQ when Mence comes in - if Mismagius comes in on Megahorn (resist) instead of CC, it loses almost always with SR down (and by that I mean it gets OHKOed). UU's walls are generally much less capable of taking Heracross' attacks to the point where resistances almost don't matter unless you're switching in Steelix or one of the juggernauts. It's not that good stall teams don't have those, but then what happens if Heracross predicts correctly? Then you lose and Heracross can Megahorn through your team (or have a good chance of doing so). Yeah, "if Heracross predicts wrong" it could be forced out, but it could also do a ton of damage first or even threaten to 2HKO. Then you have to ask "what if Heracross predicts correctly"? Then it's just a massacre.
Again, this is all theorymon, but damage calculations don't lie either. Heracross has enough power to plow through max hp/max def Pokemon that resist its STABs, which only happens if its user can't predict for pie. If that doesn't scream offensive characteristic (or even support, much in the same vain as Specs Latios), I don't know what does.
However, your point is interesting about a stall breaker being good for UU. while this might be true (and probably is), you can't send Giratina into OU to help halt offensive teams either. If it's broken, it's broken, regardless of its impacts (positive or negative) on the metagame.
@AeroForce: None of the Pokemon have even been tested, so just closing the discussion on them with "most believe conclusion x for pokemon a and most believe conclusion y for Pokemon b" is premature, especially when we've hardly discussed it at all. Also, with HG/SS, we don't have any knowledge of what changes to the metagame it could bring about (aka move tutors) as far as I know, unless Serebii just doesn't update stuff at all.
Wait, in what way does HG/SS come close to altering the metagame? Faster availability to certain Pocket Monsters? Because... that's just about the only thing I see it changing. Unless new move tutors pop up, I don't see HG/SS making a drastic impact such as Platinum. If it does introduce other move tutors in the future, boy we're gonna have to adapt like the sharks again. D:
Swampertrulz
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I think Hera in UU would be just the thing for people to realize how good it is. Besides, just think of the ripples of change brought by Garchomp and Deoxys-E's movement.
Porygon2 functions better and counters/walls some crucial pokemon in OU, like Mence and Gyra. It's honestly not all that effective in UU because it can't really take advantage of Trace as well. Almost all of smogon's analysis of P2 has to do with OU anyway.
I don't think it's tiering will be of much consequence really. If it stays in UU, it won't be an uncommon sight in OU battles, just as it is now. If it does move up (I don't think it will), the UU metagame won't care all that much since it's definitely not heavily used down there.
I don't think it's tiering will be of much consequence really. If it stays in UU, it won't be an uncommon sight in OU battles, just as it is now. If it does move up (I don't think it will), the UU metagame won't care all that much since it's definitely not heavily used down there.
Malevolent Mismagius
Bulky Metagross!
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@Aurafire: Arch was merely pointing out that when hail is in play Walrein is a beast. Quite frankly I agree. The point is that Walrein is used hail is usually used with it. Because of this, it is even good enough for OU.
@Pokedra: Porygon2 does function better in OU because of the way it takes adavantage of the abilities in Salmence and Gyara etc. In UU, the abilities aren't as diverse and can't be taken advantage of. So yes, I believe P2 should be OU. Umbreon however, is very meh, there are better annoyers out there.
@Pokedra: Porygon2 does function better in OU because of the way it takes adavantage of the abilities in Salmence and Gyara etc. In UU, the abilities aren't as diverse and can't be taken advantage of. So yes, I believe P2 should be OU. Umbreon however, is very meh, there are better annoyers out there.
But, are hail-based teams at all common in OU? Not particularly...If hail were more widely used, then yes, there would be a case for Walrein moving up. But it simply does not have enough usage for it to go up in tiering. Heck, it's not even UU, so it would have to be broken in NU for there to be talking of it moving up. Even then, you'd have to make the case that it was broken in UU for it to get to OU... D:
ChronicEdge
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Rapid Spin Donphan is absolutely worthless. He's been outclassed time and again by everyone from Starmie to Armaldo (who is an excellent anti-setup lead - meet me on Shoddy and I'll prove it to ya), and, though I have heard of him, I have never actually fought one.
CB 'Phan, on the other hand... <3 Stone Edge is already powerful, Ice Shard off sets 'Phan's mediocre speed, and he can take a lot of hits before biting it. I always try to have one of these guys ready to mess around with. I can't see him hitting UU, but since Rapid Spin Donphan is pretty much moot now, BL isn't all that unlikely.
Dugtrio's trapping ability would throw off UU so much that even if he did make it past BL, he'd be banned 90% of the time.
As far as Heracross goes, I cannot ever see him hitting UU. Shuckle is about the only thing with enough defense to survive CB Heracross, threat enough to take down Tyranitar in two hits with CC or M Horn. I really can't even imagine him making it to BL. If his usage has _really_ dropped that much, it's just because people are starting to experiment with new things (I'm seeing a lot of half-and-half OU/UU teams recently).
CB 'Phan, on the other hand... <3 Stone Edge is already powerful, Ice Shard off sets 'Phan's mediocre speed, and he can take a lot of hits before biting it. I always try to have one of these guys ready to mess around with. I can't see him hitting UU, but since Rapid Spin Donphan is pretty much moot now, BL isn't all that unlikely.
Dugtrio's trapping ability would throw off UU so much that even if he did make it past BL, he'd be banned 90% of the time.
As far as Heracross goes, I cannot ever see him hitting UU. Shuckle is about the only thing with enough defense to survive CB Heracross, threat enough to take down Tyranitar in two hits with CC or M Horn. I really can't even imagine him making it to BL. If his usage has _really_ dropped that much, it's just because people are starting to experiment with new things (I'm seeing a lot of half-and-half OU/UU teams recently).
Anti
return of the king
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This thread has pretty much hit the brakes so...
https://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57805
Scizor has basically secured the number one spot in ways we haven't seen since Garchomp was OU, with Salamence now being relegated to Gengar's former role in usage stats - second fiddle with almost no chance of moving up. Scizor is good, but it's not THAT good. I just don't understand why it's so insanely popular, especially in comparison to the far more threatening Salamence.
Also, Heracross hasn't exactly moved up, but I have my doubts that it will ever actually fall out of OU. It's simply too good of a Pokemon in OU play, and I don't see much below it that has the potential to pass it in usage. I could be wrong but meh.
Also fgjkhefjkghkgj @ 32% of Rotom-H being Scarfed. At least ScarfGar is fast and doesn't have a -2 SAtk move it relies on for half of its kills...that number should be like 10% max. [/rant]
So yeah, discuss!
https://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57805
Scizor has basically secured the number one spot in ways we haven't seen since Garchomp was OU, with Salamence now being relegated to Gengar's former role in usage stats - second fiddle with almost no chance of moving up. Scizor is good, but it's not THAT good. I just don't understand why it's so insanely popular, especially in comparison to the far more threatening Salamence.
Also, Heracross hasn't exactly moved up, but I have my doubts that it will ever actually fall out of OU. It's simply too good of a Pokemon in OU play, and I don't see much below it that has the potential to pass it in usage. I could be wrong but meh.
Also fgjkhefjkghkgj @ 32% of Rotom-H being Scarfed. At least ScarfGar is fast and doesn't have a -2 SAtk move it relies on for half of its kills...that number should be like 10% max. [/rant]
So yeah, discuss!
.Aero
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I feel that Scizor is so insanely popular because of it's freshness. Don't get me wrong, but I think people are getting tired of the same-old, same-old. Platinum was recently released which made Scizor actually usable, and people took interest to that. The Technician boost actually made him a very threatening pokemon in OU, pretty much only countered by ScarfTran or Heat Wave Zapdos (which I think wasn't a common move on him until the Scizor outbreak).
I really enjoy using Scizor myself, and he has different uses than Salamence. I think it's more preference than actually being better than Salamence (which I agree with you, he isn't).
As for the ScarfRotom, I think that's just stupid. :/ I'd never use such a thing in my life since Gengar is better in every way in my opinion. I only use one Rotom anyway, which is Rotom-C and I use him because I have difficulty getting a grass type move on my team every time I make one. Since Swampert is much more common, Rotom-C does a great job of countering it.
I really enjoy using Scizor myself, and he has different uses than Salamence. I think it's more preference than actually being better than Salamence (which I agree with you, he isn't).
As for the ScarfRotom, I think that's just stupid. :/ I'd never use such a thing in my life since Gengar is better in every way in my opinion. I only use one Rotom anyway, which is Rotom-C and I use him because I have difficulty getting a grass type move on my team every time I make one. Since Swampert is much more common, Rotom-C does a great job of countering it.
ChronicEdge
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I also can't see how Scizor is so high on the OU list. Srsly? If you want to use something new, fine (that's why I'm using Resttalk 'Drio), but Scizor IS NOT NEW, IS NOT ORIGINAL, WE'VE SEEN IT, WE KNOW HOW TO USE IT.
As far as Rotom goes, Gengar outclasses him, the end. The only Rotom that I ever use is Rotom-C, but that's because he looks so deliciously maniacal (and even them I only use him on PBR where Swampert absolutely dominates).
As far as Rotom goes, Gengar outclasses him, the end. The only Rotom that I ever use is Rotom-C, but that's because he looks so deliciously maniacal (and even them I only use him on PBR where Swampert absolutely dominates).
Anti
return of the king
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Whoa whoa whoa hold up. People certainly aren't using Scizor for freshness since it's been number 1 or very close for months. Platinum changes were added on shoddy in September of 2008 (that's 10 whole months ago), and by October it was number 2 (behind Heatran). Scizor hasn't been fresh in a good year. Besides, people don't use sets for creativity's sake (or at least not serious players) - they use them because they're effective. Yeah, the novelty factor propelled Flygon and Rhyperior in months before, but neither of them have even come close to sniffing the number one spot at all. Since Plat has been around for ten months on Shoddy (which is what usage stats are based on), everyone is pretty much used to all of the changes at this point. It's old news at this point.
My point was more that while SD Scizor can be a very deadly sweeper and CB Scizor a great scouter and revenge killer (though it's a pretty terrible attacker compared even to Heracross, let's be honest), but SDLuke is just as good if not better in the late game. CB is its most popular set, but idk, it's not better than DD Gyarados or Salamence from my point of view. Of course, they do different things, but I'm basing that more on how well they do their respective jobs rather than comparing them based on one static role like sweeping or defending...if that made sense, lol.
.Aero
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Ok, here's what I'm getting at with the "freshness" factor.
Pokemon DP has been out since April 2007. So it's been about 2 years and 2 months, correct? As you said, Platinum's additions were added 10 months ago. During the beginning of DP, people were using Salamence, Lucario, Gyarados, ect. on almost all teams. Scizor has been left out of this because back then, he didn't have Technician.
So that's 1 year and 4 months of the same-old teams as opposed to 10 months. I'm sure within the next few months, we'll be seeing Scizor's usage fall. Not dramatically however, since he's still a very good addition to any team, but I feel that he's so popular due to people getting so used to the older sets, that he's probably one of the newest fads around. Knowing the average person's tendencies, we all flock to Scizor since he's "new" now.
However, I am not saying that his freshness is the only reason he's so high up on the usage list. He holds his own in battles, has a handful of resistances with great typing, and can do a hell of a lot of damage to a lot of different pokemon. He fills his role as a physical sweeper and fills it well.
So he'll always be around the top, just I don't feel he'll be staying at the number 1 spot for long.
EDIT: After re-reading this post: I guess I'm coming off as calling him "new" as opposed as to what I really think. I'm calling him "newer". There hasn't been any huge changes since Platinum's release, and so he's the newest thing out there as opposed to older sets. I need to learn to say things more smoothly. xD
Pokemon DP has been out since April 2007. So it's been about 2 years and 2 months, correct? As you said, Platinum's additions were added 10 months ago. During the beginning of DP, people were using Salamence, Lucario, Gyarados, ect. on almost all teams. Scizor has been left out of this because back then, he didn't have Technician.
So that's 1 year and 4 months of the same-old teams as opposed to 10 months. I'm sure within the next few months, we'll be seeing Scizor's usage fall. Not dramatically however, since he's still a very good addition to any team, but I feel that he's so popular due to people getting so used to the older sets, that he's probably one of the newest fads around. Knowing the average person's tendencies, we all flock to Scizor since he's "new" now.
However, I am not saying that his freshness is the only reason he's so high up on the usage list. He holds his own in battles, has a handful of resistances with great typing, and can do a hell of a lot of damage to a lot of different pokemon. He fills his role as a physical sweeper and fills it well.
So he'll always be around the top, just I don't feel he'll be staying at the number 1 spot for long.
EDIT: After re-reading this post: I guess I'm coming off as calling him "new" as opposed as to what I really think. I'm calling him "newer". There hasn't been any huge changes since Platinum's release, and so he's the newest thing out there as opposed to older sets. I need to learn to say things more smoothly. xD
Anti
return of the king
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The first two months of Platinum were experimental. After that, pretty much nothing was "new" or "fresh" or anything like that. I know this thread is opinion-driven, but you're just wrong. Competitive Pokemon does have fads, but they don't last for 9 months. Not Obi Stall, not CB Flygon, not even SpecsMence lasted that long as a major force. Besides, it's unfair to have DP as a whole since early DP might as well be RBY when you look at late DP. Scizor being fresh has little to nothing to do with its usage. That's just the way it works lol. It's not something you can argue again really - people play to win, not to be creative or to have "fresh" Pokemon.
EDIT: New or newer doesn't make a difference. Effectiveness relative to the conditions of the metagame is what matters. Sure, noob hordes can affect usage, but Scizor isn't Electivire here. this has pretty much nothing to do with freshness. Period.
.Aero
Tell Me I'm A Screwed Up Mess
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I never knew an opinion could be wrong, but I guess I was wrong on that too. :/
I'll throw in the towel. You win. You happy now? The new-ness of Scizor is what got him going. After that, it's all stat-based. I'm completely confused on why we're arguing in the first place. I don't really understand what you were trying to say with that first post about Scizor. Do you like him being in the #1 spot or not? It sounds to me like you're giving him support for being #1 in your later posts, but in your first point it seems as if you truly don't think that he's good enough to hold that spot.
I think he deserves #1 though. I use him on all my OU teams and he performs exceptionally well each time.
(There's not much else to discuss is there... There was only: Heracross, Donphan, Dugtrio, Porygon2, Umbreon, and you brought up Scizor because of his spot at #1. What to discuss.... We're in need of some more testing Smogon!)
I'll throw in the towel. You win. You happy now? The new-ness of Scizor is what got him going. After that, it's all stat-based. I'm completely confused on why we're arguing in the first place. I don't really understand what you were trying to say with that first post about Scizor. Do you like him being in the #1 spot or not? It sounds to me like you're giving him support for being #1 in your later posts, but in your first point it seems as if you truly don't think that he's good enough to hold that spot.
I think he deserves #1 though. I use him on all my OU teams and he performs exceptionally well each time.
(There's not much else to discuss is there... There was only: Heracross, Donphan, Dugtrio, Porygon2, Umbreon, and you brought up Scizor because of his spot at #1. What to discuss.... We're in need of some more testing Smogon!)
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