Minimum Wage

[ShinyUmbreon189]

What's your guys's thoughts on minimum wage? Is minimum wage too low and are most minimum wage jobs worth the work? Also, what are your thoughts on jobs that make little over minimum wage. Is the required work experience or schooling necessary? I mean, some requirements you need for $10 an hour is plain ridiculous. Imo, if you have a degree even an associates you should make at least $15.

Personally I refuse to work for minimum wage, I can't sink that low and be a slave for chump change and live off the system. I need at least $12 an hour or I'll refuse the job and that's really pushing it. With my experience in some fields I'd refuse if it isn't $15 due to my experience and work ethic.

 

[Sir Codin]

I'm sorry, but with all the unemployment we have these days, if you complain about minimum wage being too low, regardless of how they can or cannot afford to pay you more, that just makes you look like an ungrateful prick. If you truly think you're being paid too low, work better and make it look like your labor ethic justifies the price you're charging, especially if you work for small businesses.

Minimum wage being "low" right now might be a factor in the current poverty level, but it's far from the only one. Inflation, gentrification, and population expansion also play key factors into it. Of course, maybe I'm being a hypocrite because if the minimum wage was raised by law right now, I wouldn't shed a tear since I'll take all I can get. The "greed" angle swings both ways.

 

[gimmepie]

Minimum wage is a necessity in this world, it is one of the few things preventing corporations from completely taking advantage of us. I know that most people making minimum wages here and in the US struggle to provide for their families or gain independence and that tells me that minimum wage in these places is too low.

Nobody should have to fight to keep abreast of bills, tuition fees etc. Minimum wage needs to be enough to sufficiently cover these things and emergencies. Anything else is less of an issue.

 

[ShinyUmbreon189]

I'm sorry, but with all the unemployment we have these days, if you complain about minimum wage being too low, regardless of how they can or cannot afford to pay you more, that just makes you look like an ungrateful prick. If you truly think you're being paid too low, work better and make it look like your labor ethic justifies the price you're charging, especially if you work for small businesses.

I'm sorry that I seem like an "ungrateful prick" but at 24 years old I refuse to work for minimum wage. Working better doesn't solve the problem, cause no matter how hard you bust your ass it's not enough. Companies are truly never satisfied, unless it's a small business. If it's a franchise you basically go unnoticed. You can work retail and be the top of the pyramid in sales and still make minimum wage, or just above it. If you've managed to hit the top of the pyramid in sales and been there for awhile, I think it's time for that person to get a promotion to a management position because they obviously know their company's products and how to sell them. Instead, they give them a 25 cent raise and call it good. I haven't worked minimum wage in like 4 years, my work ethic is beyond $8 an hour. I got bills to pay, they aren't going to pay with a minimum wage job and they most certainly aren't going to pay themselves. I also refuse to abuse government assistance and I think the welfare system is a broken system at that as people take advantage of it when they shouldn't.

Minimum wage being "low" right now might be a factor in the current poverty level, but it's far from the only one. Inflation, gentrification, and population expansion also play key factors into it. Of course, maybe I'm being a hypocrite because if the minimum wage was raised by law right now, I wouldn't shed a tear since I'll take all I can get. The "greed" angle swings both ways.

It's not greed wanting what you're worth, and it's not greed if you're experienced in that field and demand more because you have a family to support. Nobody should be with a company for 10 years and be making only $10 an hour. That's a slap in the face and a fuck you for their dedication to that company, they should be at least a supervisor and a lead one at that. I understand some people take what they can get, but honestly, you can't tell me it's enough without using government assistance to support even yourself. 10,000 a year is nowhere enough to live independently, especially with a family.
Some owe almost 100k in college loans with a bachelors degree and they're still stuck making chump change or unemployed because they picked a pointless field where there's no jobs. Having a degree should make them more hire worthy but for most jobs, they're "over qualified" or they stay unemployed until they find something worth it. What people make nowadays is a complete joke given how expensive the cost of living is. Without government assistance more than half the population would die.

It's not me that's greedy.. It's the corporations enslaving us for chump change while they line their pockets that's greedy.

 

[Ivysaur]

Workforce is another cost for the company. If it cannot afford to pay its workers a decent enough amount so they can afford rent, food and basic bills, then the company is uncompetitive and should close, not stagger on by shortchanging their workers to make up for their failures in another areas.

Plus, underpaid workers are a problem for the economy as a whole, as they cannot consume as much, nor save, nor invest.

 

[Sir Codin]

Workforce is another cost for the company. If it cannot afford to pay its workers a decent enough amount so they can pay rent, eat and foot the basic bills, then the company is uncompetitive and should close, not stagger on by shortchanging their workers to make up for their failures in another areas.

Plus, underpaid workers are a problem for the economy as a whole, as they cannot consume as much, nor save, nor invest.

I don't necessarily think not being pay workers a liveable wage is entirely the fault of practices by a company or that it's being "uncompetitive."

Sometimes I think it's a case of a company being unable to compete no matter what they do, like if they share the same space as a multi-national corporation that has government subsidies. I mean, really, the corporation has been around longer than you, they have more resources and larger work force, and they have government throwing money at them...how exactly can you compete with that?

 

[Ivysaur]

I don't necessarily think not being pay workers a liveable wage is entirely the fault of practices by a company or that it's being "uncompetitive."

Sometimes I think it's a case of a company being unable to compete no matter what they do, like if they share the same space as a multi-national corporation that has government subsidies. I mean, really, the corporation has been around longer than you, they have more resources and larger work force, and they have government throwing money at them...how exactly can you compete with that?

Well, you... don't. If you are directly competing in a field where you can't possibly fight, you should quit and open an actually profitable business, not force your workers to become "working poor" in order to stagger on with no hope of ever getting any better.

In fact, it's likely that their workers could make more money by applying for the corporation. That scenario is just so un-economical it's amazing.

Of course, I can understand mom'n'dad places can afford to pay less, but the minimum should be enough for the workers to house and feed themselves; that's basic decency.

 

[gimmepie]

I don't have any stats for the US, but this is a good example of how big an issue this is becoming here in Australia.

Households are accruing debts incredibly quickly and costs like living expenses, tuition fees and realestate are increasing at a rate that minimum wage and welfare cannot cover.

 

[Sir Codin]

Well, you... don't. If you are directly competing in a field where you can't possibly fight, you should quit and open an actually profitable business, not force your workers to become "working poor" in order to stagger on with no hope of ever getting any better.

In fact, it's likely that their workers could make more money by applying for the corporation. That scenario is just so un-economical it's amazing.

Of course, I can understand mom'n'dad places can afford to pay less, but the minimum should be enough for the workers to house and feed themselves; that's basic decency.

But doesn't throwing in the towel and moving over to an established corporation ensure the creation of oligopolies? We have enough Comcasts in America already.

 

[ShinyUmbreon189]

Workforce is another cost for the company. If it cannot afford to pay its workers a decent enough amount so they can afford rent, food and basic bills, then the company is uncompetitive and should close, not stagger on by shortchanging their workers to make up for their failures in another areas.

Plus, underpaid workers are a problem for the economy as a whole, as they cannot consume as much, nor save, nor invest.

As much as I agree with you on this, the truth of the matter is, that the cost of living and resources required to live is too high and even major franchises wouldn't be able to pay it's employers enough if they worked for a livable income. The world has too vast of a population, the only way for companies to pay employers a livable wage would be through depopulation and a vast majority at that. Even if the US were to raise the minimum wage to $15 (which would be ideal) it would only cause inflation to take place and we'd be right back where we're at. If inflation, didn't for instance take place then the economy would collapse and so would the monetary system meaning no resources to live and no money so everybody would die.

 

[Sir Codin]

I think it should be noted that I don't disagree with the idea of minimum wage. Hell, ever since my trip to Europe, a lot of what Sanders is saying is making sense to me. I'm even going to vote for the guy, if nothing else than because "hey, fuck it. The worst that could happen is I remain as poor as I am now; what have I got to lose? Europe isn't a shithole, so maybe there's something to this."

 

[ShinyUmbreon189]

I think it should be noted that I don't disagree with the idea of minimum wage. Hell, ever since my trip to Europe, a lot of what Sanders is saying is making sense to me. I'm even going to vote for the guy, if nothing else than because "hey, **** it. The worst that could happen is I remain as poor as I am now; what have I got to lose? Europe isn't a ****hole, so maybe there's something to this."

We're fucked either way.. Just vote for who's gonna screw us the least. I don't see none of them helping us economically anyways. The ones being effected by this the most is the middle class. The poor remain poor and the rich will remain rich. If Bernie did raise the minimum wage tho, inflation would come intact or companies would fire employers and the unemployment rate would be much higher.

 

[Kanzler]

We're ****ed either way.. Just vote for who's gonna screw us the least. I don't see none of them helping us economically anyways. The ones being effected by this the most is the middle class. The poor remain poor and the rich will remain rich. If Bernie did raise the minimum wage tho, inflation would come intact or companies would fire employers and the unemployment rate would be much higher.

Where's the evidence that it actually occurs? I've heard that those concerns are often blown out of proportion.

 

[ShinyUmbreon189]

Where's the evidence that it actually occurs? I've heard that those concerns are often blown out of proportion.

It's common sense really.. If you can't answer this question then you don't know how economics works. If the minimum wage would go up everything would go up, it's called inflation. It's always happened and it wouldn't stop now. As for companies firing.. As I said earlier, companies can't afford to keep employers employed with a livable wage, especially if it's including benefits. So they would either have to cut benefits or let some go. Not saying they would fire all their employers but they surely wouldn't be able to afford to keep them all either. So sacrifices would have to be made.

 

[Ivysaur]

It's common sense really.. If you can't answer this question then you don't know how economics works. If the minimum wage would go up everything would go up, it's called inflation. It's always happened and it wouldn't stop now. As for companies firing.. As I said earlier, companies can't afford to keep employers employed with a livable wage, especially if it's including benefits. So they would either have to cut benefits or let some go. Not saying they would fire all their employers but they surely wouldn't be able to afford to keep them all either. So sacrifices would have to be made.

Except inflation doesn't happen automatically, and can be offset by things like cheaper oil. Plus, the US actually needs some inflation- current levels are around 1%, which is a problem considering the Fed aims at about a 2% yearly rate.

In fact, Europe is in serious trouble because, even though the ECB has been printing billions upon billions of euros, there is no inflation anywhere, even though one of the basic rules of monetary policy has always been "if you print money, you get inflation". It seems there are big "excepts" here and there (like the weakening of the dollar in the recent weeks, or the stagnation in Europe and China), and now it's the time to take advantage of those.

Not to mention the inflation wouldn't happen everywhere because companies that already pay bigger salaries would not have to increase theirs (or just a tiny bit).

 

[Sir Codin]

How about the CEO's cut their own pay to keep workers in their companies? Oh, wait....they don't.

When you really think about it, the whole notion that increasing minimum wage increasing prices is not so much a natural cause of inflation....it's more likely a case of the CEO being too much of a kuk to throw a little money somewhere other than towards that third Lamborghini with tinted windows. Yeah, I've decided to take a 180. Fuck the rich.

We're ****ed either way.. Just vote for who's gonna screw us the least.

In that case either Sanders or Johnson. I might actually have to flip a coin. Not the first time I've made an important life decision utilizing the Coin Flip of Great Justice.

 

[gimmepie]

It's common sense really.. If you can't answer this question then you don't know how economics works. If the minimum wage would go up everything would go up, it's called inflation. It's always happened and it wouldn't stop now. As for companies firing.. As I said earlier, companies can't afford to keep employers employed with a livable wage, especially if it's including benefits. So they would either have to cut benefits or let some go. Not saying they would fire all their employers but they surely wouldn't be able to afford to keep them all either. So sacrifices would have to be made.

Whilst I can understand why you think this, I feel like the success of similar measures in Scandinavian countries kind of renders the point moot.

 

[ShinyUmbreon189]

How about the CEO's cut their own pay to keep workers in their companies? Oh, wait....they don't.

When you really think about it, the whole notion that increasing minimum wage increasing prices is not so much a natural cause of inflation....it's more likely a case of the CEO being too much of a kuk to throw a little money somewhere other than towards that third Lamborghini with tinted windows.

Yeah, I've decided to take a 180. **** the rich.

As I stated.. It's all about lining their pockets. They don't give a damn about their employers. But then again, they've invested money into the company. Yes, they don't deserve all of what they earn but they deserve a lot. Rich people (other than rich people that was given shit to them) earned what they got, and they're rich because they're good at what they do. They probably got a masters degree in business and accounting and even rich pay taxes too, and they pay A LOT more a year in taxes that what a majority of the members make on this forum as their yearly income, you could even combine some salary's and they're taxes would still exceed it. They probably get roughly 45% of their money taken through taxes. If taxes weren't so high, companies would be able to pay their employers more and the general population would have more money to live. Taxes are waaaay too high.

 

[Ivysaur]

I think it should be noted that I don't disagree with the idea of minimum wage. Hell, ever since my trip to Europe, a lot of what Sanders is saying is making sense to me. I'm even going to vote for the guy, if nothing else than because "hey, **** it. The worst that could happen is I remain as poor as I am now; what have I got to lose? Europe isn't a ****hole, so maybe there's something to this."

Incidentally, most countries in Western Europe have been trying this social-democratic sort of policies for decades here and we have achieved a pretty high level in development in many fields- and we are doing better than the US in many stats. Sanders would be a fairly mainstream politician here.

Although, admittedly, the US have a higher income per capita- except it's less fairly distributed. We have less overall income but the difference between the richest and the poorest is smaller. So it's a matter of choice! I wouldn't want to live in the US if I were part of "the poorest" though.

 

[Sir Codin]

The problem isn't that taxes are too high, though, it's that taxes pay for things we don't need anymore...like uber-military and Republican salaries.