Most intimidating physical sweeper?

[sims796]

Whut?

The tiers (barring BL and Ubers) are all determined by usage. You cannot "consider" something to be OU, since the tiers are defined by hard numbers.

And success in OU doesn't necessarily define success in other tiers. Since Aerodactyl's not used enough to be OU, it can be in UU and still operate fine. Nobody's saying you can't still use Aero in OU. =/

I don't think you're right on this one. Raw stats, move options, typing, and ability - overal how it plays - is what determinds tier. Then again, their are many broken UU pokemon around, such as Leafeon, Weezing, & such, so there is still a good possibility of you being right. So it may just be a highly flawed system of tiers. Second, yes, Aero is a damn monster in UU. Just because a poke isn't used as often, doesn't make it any weaker, and Aero not being used as much doesn't mean it is OU material.

So all in all LO DOS > Bulky Gyarados.

As I said, F u Dark Azelf, you sugested Bulky Gya on my team. SABATOGE! SABATOGE!

 

[airconditioning]

OU and UU, which are the only two tiers that attempt to hold a balanced metagame, are defined by usage. The other two are BL and Ubers, which are defined by power.

Hold on, now you're confusing me. Let me just see if we agree on this:

UU and BL are separated by power. BL and OU are separated by usage. OU and Ubers are separated by power.

 

[Magmortified]

I don't think you're right on this one. Raw stats, move options, typing, and ability - overal how it plays - is what determinds tier.

As far as Smogon goes, OU and UU are determined based on usage. Ubers is what's too powerful for the rest of the metagame, OU is the top 75% of usage from that, BL is what's too powerful for UU, which is what takes up the remaining percentage.

Overall, though, a lot of usage is determined based on playability. If something is good, it naturally gets used more, and therefore gets a better chance of hitting the OU mark. So it tendst to balance out somewhat. Though some Pokemon do tend to fluctuate as metagame trends change.

Then again, their are many broken UU pokemon around, such as Leafeon, Weezing, & such, so there is still a good possibility of you being right. So it may just be a highly flawed system of tiers.

If a Pokemon is deemed broken in UU, it is termed as BL. Though what some people may see as broken and what others see as fine...

UU and BL are separated by power. BL and OU are separated by usage. OU and Ubers are separated by power.

For a simpler definition:

Ubers is seperated from the rest of the metagame because it's too strong.

OU is the top 75% of what's left.

BL is what falls into the remaining 25%, but is too strong for UU.

UU is whatever's not taken up by the above.

 

[Ársa]

I've always thought of it this way.

OU and UU are seperated by usage on a scale. OU and BL are seperated by how well the BL pokemon perform in OU. A prime example is Blaziken, who is BL because there is something in OU that does the job better in almost every facet. (and for the people who've been under a rock, it's Infernape)

~T_S

 

[c_dog]

Kiddo have you ever considered you were maybe playing bad Heracross users ? =/


@C_Dog, Bulky Gyara, cant take hits all that well (not as much as people make out) and it cant sweep, due to lack of speed and no attack.




My thoughts exactly.


So all in all LO DOS > Bulky Gyarados.


There is also a nifty little set to OHKO most every Heracross counter


Heracross@Flame Orb
Adamant Nature
252 ATT / 252 SPEED / 6 HP
Trait : Guts
- Swords Dance
- Facade
- Megahorn
- Close Combat


This is one of the sets that can smash through just about anything.

Heracross has a deadly weapon in Facade, which OHKOs bulky Gyarados (Including Intimidate), Gliscor, and Weezing.

Hippowdon, Bronzong, and Skarmory are OHKOed by Close Combat after a Swords Dance, and every single Psychic-type OHKOed by Megahorn.

This is why i think BOTH are scary.


Not to mention that Toxic Heracross smashes Gliscor, as it has to cope with both Toxic and SR and Hera's attacks.

that heracross still can't hit ghosts well, and with choice scarf and the abundance of sweepers faster than heracross, that heracross fails to a balanced team(though would be really awesome given the right circumstances).

as for gyarados, it's not so much that it's bulky than the fact that it has taunt which stops its counters from putting it to sleep/other status or set up on it. a paralyzed gyarados is good as gone. taunt is half of what makes gyarados so effective, imo, and without it, it's just so much easier to counter. maybe i'm just old school and find the old gyara better.

 

[Ársa]

Taunt isn't nearly as devistating as you're trying to make out. If you've actually used Bulkydos with Taunt, you would realize it actually isn't used all that much. The point of LO DD Gyarados is the hit hard and fast, and overwhelm teams. It runs far more speed than the Taunt sets, meaning after a Dragon Dance it outspeeds many common threats, and with the increased attack is also able to dispose of them easier. Life Orb only adds to this. Taunt is only really useful for stopping phazers and status users from halting Gyarados, but with an attack stat topping at 545 after a Dragon Dance, and including the Life Orb increase, it seriously hurts stuff. It also defeats its original counters, for a Celebi without Reflect or Thunder Wave is immediately buried, and one with Reflect only defeats Gyarados with above 80% health.

~T_S

 

[Lil MuDkiP849]

I'd have to say my pick is LO Gyara for reasons already stated...tbh i havent had alot of trouble getting around Yache chomp...it's so standard...

In some ways i fear Infernape...because i've just seen the craziest sets ranging from Scarf with U-turn to the standard mixape...i've seen a guy use a specs all-out attack mixape 0.0...just my experiences with Infernape make me afraid of him seeing as how without my counter i actually would be mixape weak...

 

[Ársa]

But that is the point...without a Garchomp counter, you are Garchomp weak. Without a Heracross counter, your are Heracross weak. Without an Infernape counter, you are Infernape weak.

OF COURSE YOU'LL BE WEAK IF YOU DON'T HAVE A COUNTER, THAT'S WHY WE CALL IT A COUNTER...>_>

But yes, thankyou for agreeing, and not posting the standard 'OMFG!!!one11!oneone garchomp is ezy 2 beet, ice ataks beet it ezy!!!11!!1oneoneoneoneoneoneoneoneoneoneoneon'

~T_S

 

[.]

Heracross?I've met about 10,i didnt even consider them,and i took thme out easily!

Wild Heracross don't count >.>

please, LO gyarados as i've stated before is only benefitting from its older brother bulky taunt-a-dros. LO gyarados doesn't have taunt which makes it a lot easier for players to stop it/force a switch. with the use of stealth rock it's probably a one hit KO on it the next time it comes in. i still think gyarados is one of the best sweepers in the game, but all these people saying as if it's some beast that people need to be afraid are wrong.

and agreed that heracross shouldn't be top 5. maybe a push for top 10 but not top 5. its attacks are easily stopped as so many pokemon are resistant to its moves(the common gliscor in fact is resistant all its moves except none stabbed stone edge, which don't even do that much). people carrying cresselia as their physical wall though, definitely need to be afraid of this guy. stabbed megahorn is definitely no fun.

Taunt is overrated. BulkyGyara can't pull off a sweep, nevermind the fact that LO Gyara can 2HKO most of it's counters.

The only thing that could even think about walling that with ease is Dusknoir or a Rock/Ghost type, which doesn't exist.., and Dusknoir usage is becoming crap. Honestly...Flame Orb Heracross is potentially one of the most threatening Pokemon to anything in the game, only beaten by things quicker, meaning it terrorizes everything slow.

...We should've made a poll on this.

I didn't think it was going to get this much of an intelligent discussion. I expected "GARCHOMP BECAUSE IT'S REALLY STRONG"

For me, it's Empoleon,whenever I'm in the Wi-fi Battle Tower and I run into one, I think AW NO!!!
No matter what i do they always beat me.

How the heck can you be Empoleon weak?

I've always thought of it this way.

OU and UU are seperated by usage on a scale. OU and BL are seperated by how well the BL pokemon perform in OU. A prime example is Blaziken, who is BL because there is something in OU that does the job better in almost every facet. (and for the people who've been under a rock, it's Infernape)

~T_S

I believe OU and BL are seperated by usage. I mean, BL Pokes are pretty much equal with OU Pokes. Only thing is, they aren't used as much because, like you said, there is either something better or there is something flawed with them (Slaking having Truant for example) However, BL's function very nicely in OU (Houndoom beats Blissey)

Taunt isn't nearly as devistating as you're trying to make out. If you've actually used Bulkydos with Taunt, you would realize it actually isn't used all that much. The point of LO DD Gyarados is the hit hard and fast, and overwhelm teams. It runs far more speed than the Taunt sets, meaning after a Dragon Dance it outspeeds many common threats, and with the increased attack is also able to dispose of them easier. Life Orb only adds to this. Taunt is only really useful for stopping phazers and status users from halting Gyarados, but with an attack stat topping at 545 after a Dragon Dance, and including the Life Orb increase, it seriously hurts stuff. It also defeats its original counters, for a Celebi without Reflect or Thunder Wave is immediately buried, and one with Reflect only defeats Gyarados with above 80% health.

~T_S

Agreed

 

[SmashBrony]

most intimidating?
Gyarados.
(yes, this is a bad pun on it's ability.)

oh yes, & salamence.
(it too have the ability intimidate!)

 

[sims796]

Remember, don't downplay Bulkydos. It's meant to play the more defensive role. I use it in conjuntion with my Bulky grass, and use SD Luke (my current favorite sweeper) to decimate teams.

I also say SD luke as a intimidating sweeper.

OF THE LATE GAEMZ

 

[c_dog]

well, my teams just happen to have more trouble with taunt-a-dros than LO gyarados.

a t-waved gyarados is good as gone, and sleep also stops it effectively. i'd say taunt is pretty useful, even if not to prevent set ups, to prevent status.

 

[sims796]

And promoting free switch-ins.

Bill Cosby has gone missing, presumed dead.

 

[Anti]

well, my teams just happen to have more trouble with taunt-a-dros than LO gyarados.

a t-waved gyarados is good as gone, and sleep also stops it effectively. i'd say taunt is pretty useful, even if not to prevent set ups, to prevent status.

Most status inducers are killed by Gyarados before they can touch him though. Gengar, for example, won't be putting anything to sleep. Bulky Gyarados with Taunt is a tankish thing while DD LO Gyarados is a far better sweeper, but the other one is much safer from the opposition.

Still, in today's powerful and fast metagame (and SR-infested), bulky gyarados has lost some effectiveness. Bulky Gyarados used to be a lot better than it is now. Kind of like how stall was popular after obi's stall team and then the crazy train went off the rails, so to speak.

Considering this is a thread about "the most intimidating physical sweeper," regardless of how effective Tauntrados might seem to you DD LO Gyarados is clearly a better sweeper, with better coverage and much more raw power.

 

[c_dog]

Most status inducers are killed by Gyarados before they can touch him though. Gengar, for example, won't be putting anything to sleep. Bulky Gyarados with Taunt is a tankish thing while DD LO Gyarados is a far better sweeper, but the other one is much safer from the opposition.

Still, in today's powerful and fast metagame (and SR-infested), bulky gyarados has lost some effectiveness. Bulky Gyarados used to be a lot better than it is now. Kind of like how stall was popular after obi's stall team and then the crazy train went off the rails, so to speak.

Considering this is a thread about "the most intimidating physical sweeper," regardless of how effective Tauntrados might seem to you DD LO Gyarados is clearly a better sweeper, with better coverage and much more raw power.

it only takes one turn to status gyarados buddy. not being able to touch him would mean your pokemon are OHKO'ed without it even having to dragon dance... i still go for the beefy stall teams rather than the sweeper teams that are roaming around these days so about 4 of my pokemon can take several hits from dos w/o dragon dance, two of which can inflict status one of which can pseuohaze. taunt ruins their effectiveness but DD dos won't be doing any sweeping any time soon.

but you're right. LO gyarados would be the better sweeper if we're talking about raw power because it has the stats. raw power is just that though, and i would find a taunt-a-dros more intimidating. whenever i run into an unsuspecting taunt-a-dros who used taunt on me, i just bang my head because i might have just given him a few extra turns to set up DD for the sweep.

 

[.]

it only takes one turn to status gyarados buddy. not being able to touch him would mean your pokemon are OHKO'ed without it even having to dragon dance... i still go for the beefy stall teams rather than the sweeper teams that are roaming around these days so about 4 of my pokemon can take several hits from dos w/o dragon dance, two of which can inflict status one of which can pseuohaze. taunt ruins their effectiveness but DD dos won't be doing any sweeping any time soon.

It only takes one turn for Gyarados to OHKO you with a STAB Waterfall =/ Gyarados can also have team support such as Aromatherapy.

but you're right. LO gyarados would be the better sweeper if we're talking about raw power

Which we are, thus you're off topic.

 

[sims796]

Hey, ease off C-Dog, he did admit his mistake. Everyone else posted along with him.

Anywho, are we only allowed Physical sweepers? Because to me, I say Heatran, Azelf, & Raichu as special of my choice. I don't want a long rant about why Raichu is a bad sweeper, ya nutsack, I like it. Swept a team with a few times :/.

EDIT:Oh, that nutsack shtick wasn't on you, Vance, just anyone bugging me with a 5 paragragh essay on why Raichu sux.

 

[.]

Hey, ease off C-Dog, he did admit his mistake. Everyone else posted along with him.

Anywho, are we only allowed Physical sweepers? Because to me, I say Heatran, Azelf, & Raichu as special of my choice. I don't want a long rant about why Raichu is a bad sweeper, ya nutsack, I like it. Swept a team with a few times :/.

EDIT:Oh, that nutsack shtick wasn't on you, Vance, just anyone bugging me with a 5 paragragh essay on why Raichu sux.

"Most intimidating Special Sweeper" LOLZ

Raichu is actually pretty damn scary with Reversal D= Reversal/Sub/Agility/Tbold

 

[airconditioning]

Special sweepers, by nature, are just less intimidating. Not only do most lack that ability, but Special sweepers are just OLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL'd by Blissey. :/

 

[Anti]

it only takes one turn to status gyarados buddy. not being able to touch him would mean your pokemon are OHKO'ed without it even having to dragon dance... i still go for the beefy stall teams rather than the sweeper teams that are roaming around these days so about 4 of my pokemon can take several hits from dos w/o dragon dance, two of which can inflict status one of which can pseuohaze. taunt ruins their effectiveness but DD dos won't be doing any sweeping any time soon.

but you're right. LO gyarados would be the better sweeper if we're talking about raw power because it has the stats. raw power is just that though, and i would find a taunt-a-dros more intimidating. whenever i run into an unsuspecting taunt-a-dros who used taunt on me, i just bang my head because i might have just given him a few extra turns to set up DD for the sweep.

I don't mean to sound too derogatory here, but have you even played in the current metagame? If Gyarados wants to Taunt status inducers (who are pretty rare as it is), it can do so, but Tauntrados can't sweep. Gyarados needs all three moveslots to effectively beat what it has to. Everything hits fast and hard now. Walls are becoming more and more rare. The only thing Taunt will beat that DD LO Gyarados can't is Bronzong. Other sleep inducers like Gengar and Yanmega are just CRUSHED. Milotic beats Gyarados either way (though it's very rare to see nowadays anyways). As for PHazers, they too are kind of...uncommon. Skarmory maybe, but I haven't seen one in awhile to be honest, probably because Gliscor seems to wall physical attackers better.

With the extra slot and extra power, Gyarados can afford to get statused or PHazed by a few uncommon things. If it runs the bulky tauntrados deal, then it's going to lose to a lot of what you see in today's metagame - sweepers. Not many pokemon can sweep with only two moveslots for attacks, and Gyarados isn't really one of them.